Middlesbrough away match thread

[petehinton]

Just now, bexhill reds said:

That’s a fair point. Hopefully this is something that he gets and does not allow himself to become disillusioned especially with contract conversations seemingly coming to the fore.

I’ve said it a lot now, but I’d be amazed if he was here in 6 months. I think his lack of impacting games due to the system, when he knows the quality he has, given the interest in him, he’s probably very keen to move on. Tinnion ( I think, maybe JL) saying he’s essentially turned down 3 separate contracts says it all. 

[JP Hampton]

1 minute ago, bexhill reds said:

That’s a fair point. Hopefully this is something that he gets and does not allow himself to become disillusioned especially with contract conversations seemingly coming to the fore.

This is what concerns me. Can easily see how disillusioned he could become. 

[Alessandro]

3 minutes ago, UncleRed said:

Unfortunately decisions can’t be made with hindsight.

What if they kept a back 4 and boro came out the gates flying and scored early on, having momentum for 40 minutes and LM has to change tactics on the fly from the dugout.

Instead, anticipating a good coach in Michael Carrick isn’t gonna let a repeat of the first half happen. And changes tactics at half time where he has around 15 minutes to get messages across and make sure the players get everything on board and rely on our best side of this team, Defending.

I can’t believe some people will find any little thing to try and moan about, especially when you look at the schedule the players had and what actually just happened. WINNING away to boro fgs.

You know criticism can be constructive? Debating the good points and the bad points is part of the game, the analysis is normal, good and bad.

Why are people so sensitive about a few balanced, sensible observations?

Odd.

You can bet your bottom dollar the management and team won't be saying "3 points, job done, no point in discussing the game, we won" - they'll be debriefing and learning. 

[TDarwall]

Just now, petehinton said:

I’ve said it a lot now, but I’d be amazed if he was here in 6 months. I think his lack of impacting games due to the system, 

I think its more due  to his best mate going to the Prem & TC (rightly) wanting some of that himself.  But I agree, he would have signed by now if he was staying.

[CiderJar]

Good old BBC, "He plays for Bristol, he must be Welsh, just bung Jones down."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68189942

 

[bexhill reds]

4 minutes ago, UncleRed said:

Unfortunately decisions can’t be made with hindsight.

What if they kept a back 4 and boro came out the gates flying and scored early on, having momentum for 40 minutes and LM has to change tactics on the fly from the dugout.

Instead, anticipating a good coach in Michael Carrick isn’t gonna let a repeat of the first half happen. And changes tactics at half time where he has around 15 minutes to get messages across and make sure the players get everything on board and rely on our best side of this team, Defending.

I can’t believe some people will find any little thing to try and moan about, especially when you look at the schedule the players had and what actually just happened. WINNING away to boro fgs.

Why change something that was working? Boro were a beaten team in the first half, start the 1st 10 mins of the 2nd half with the same intensity, crowd on backs etc? 

We just sat too deep and invited them to play and Boro have got too much quality for that.

Great result, but we were definitely on the ropes.

 

[UncleRed]

3 minutes ago, bexhill reds said:

Why change something that was working? Boro were a beaten team in the first half, start the 1st 10 mins of the 2nd half with the same intensity, crowd on backs etc? 

We just sat too deep and invited them to play and Boro have got too much quality for that.

Great result, but we were definitely on the ropes.

 

Literally replied to my post asking questions about my opinions in which the answers are in the post. 

[fanjita]

Matty James goal celebration made I laugh, I wonder what that was all about 

[Guest]

After two hours and a penalty shootout at Forest, plus the travel involved, and I don’t care if they did fly up yesterday, the entire squad deserve a couple of days off, but no, Southampton on Tuesday, an unbelievable schedule for the boys, all credit to them, I’ll take a point now from Tuesday.

The Championship is simply mental.

[JP Hampton]

5 minutes ago, fanjita said:

Matty James goal celebration made I laugh, I wonder what that was all about 

Yeah reminds me of the sort of thing my 2yr old grandson does

[bexhill reds]

11 minutes ago, UncleRed said:

Literally replied to my post asking questions about my opinions in which the answers are in the post. 

Perhaps you’re literally not being prepared to accept that Manning might have got it wrong…..

I think sometimes he has a tendency to try to be too clever, today was one of those examples. By all means have the plan at the back of your mind especially as the players are experienced enough with that formation to be able to quickly adapt to the change if it needed to be made, so it’s not as if it takes 15 mins to change it, but why not see what Boro do in the first 10-15 mins of the half.

He talks about the players learning, let’s hope he does as well, we could equally be talking tonight about a 2 goal lead squandered and 2 points lost.

[1960maaan]

I can't say too much about the technical points of actual game, ended up with a crap stream that buffered and struggled.

But against a good side, we dominated the first half and when we have waited for the opposition to make changes and struggled to get a grip after, we did the change and tried to stifle  them.

We will never know if we would have kept a grip on the game had we stayed with a back 4 , but I did understand ( to a certain extent ) going to a 3/5 . Just because they came into the game 2nd half does not mean it was totally wrong, even though I would have waited 10 minutes just to see and react. 

I would expect them to come into the game and press us back in the 2nd half, we've seen it time after time with us at home. You are losing and there is only one thing to do, throw caution to the wind and the team that is up don't need to chase so sit back. That is nothing to do with formation , it seems a natural part of a game. 
I accept that the change may have been too early, but I have criticised Manning for being reactive so it would be churlish to criticise him for being proactive for a change . 

For me, after the stress of trying to watch the game and then trying to get a audio feed, I will just have a beer and bask in the glory of a perfect Bristol football weekend .

Edited February 10 by 1960maaan

[UncleRed]

2 minutes ago, bexhill reds said:

Perhaps you’re literally not being prepared to accept that Manning might have got it wrong…..

You asked why change something that was working, but if you read my post you wouldn’t need to ask that, so not really

I think sometimes he has a tendency to try to be too clever, today was one of those examples. By all means have the plan at the back of your mind especially as the players are experienced enough with that formation to be able to quickly adapt to the change if it needed to be made, so it’s not as if it takes 15 mins to change it, but why not see what Boro do in the first 10-15 mins of the half.

He talks about the players learning, let’s hope he does as well, we could equally be talking tonight about a 2 goal lead squandered and 2 points lost.

Could also be talking about a 2 goal lead being squandered if didn’t change anything, I’ll repeat myself, decisions can’t be made with hindsight.

 

[bexhill reds]

1 minute ago, UncleRed said:

 

Ok, you clearly have a view that you are not prepared to question or indeed accept question. I’m not talking about hindsight, but merely questioning the wisdom of making a change that did not immediately need to occur. As fans are we not allowed to question decisions made by both players and coaches?

We seem to be in a place where any suggestion of being critical about Manning is wrong and he should be defended at all costs. 

[The Gasbuster]

City win away

Scum lose at home.

And now England have beaten the ******* taffs in the rugby.

Perfect, perfect day !

[Jerseybean]

From their forum…..Or maybe, the Bristol manager with a 2 goal advantage told his players to just protect what they have, save energy, as with time going by & all the minutes they had played midweek come 80 minutes they would be on their backside, lets not forget, not only the distance they've covered over the last 4 days but 90 minutes of football, extra time & penalty loss, yet we started off as bad as we have done for a long, long time & they just came at us time & time again & without Glover our defeat would have been greater

[UncleRed]

17 minutes ago, bexhill reds said:

Ok, you clearly have a view that you are not prepared to question or indeed accept question.

Not at all, just your question was futile, as again. Read my post you replied to first then you’ll get my opinion.

I’m not talking about hindsight, but merely questioning the wisdom of making a change that did not immediately need to occur. As fans are we not allowed to question decisions made by both players and coaches?

I once remember Rio Ferdinand saying something along the lines of, pro action is better than reaction when possible.

We seem to be in a place where any suggestion of being critical about Manning is wrong and he should be defended at all costs. 

Not being critical of Manning, being critical of a managers decision that seen us get 3 points, with all the parameters that were faced.

 

Edited February 10 by UncleRed

[luke_bristol]

What a day of sport

great result for city amidst fixture congestion, extra time and pens on Tuesday etc. let’s hope we can out a bit of a run together.

Next up, 22 unbeaten Southampton !

[bexhill reds]

4 minutes ago, UncleRed said:

 

I’m not sure it was futile, but there you go all about opinions I guess, probably best to leave it as you have your opinion and I have mine, at the end of the season it will just be seen as 3 points. 

I am concerned that Manning sometimes appears to try to super coach and out think the opposition and only make life more difficult, and it’s not the first time I’ve felt that during a game. FWIW I do think that he has improved the team’s play at times, but I would hope that he’ll look back at his choices in the 2nd half and question whether they were right and learn just like he sets that challenge for the players.

Nothing wrong with a proactive change if it takes the game to the opposition, but in this case the change was to sit deeper and ask a footballing side to play football. 

 

[UncleRed]

1 minute ago, bexhill reds said:

I’m not sure it was futile, but there you go all about opinions I guess, probably best to leave it as you have your opinion and I have mine, at the end of the season it will just be seen as 3 points. 

I am concerned that Manning sometimes appears to try to super coach and out think the opposition and only make life more difficult, and it’s not the first time I’ve felt that during a game. FWIW I do think that he has improved the team’s play at times, but I would hope that he’ll look back at his choices in the 2nd half and question whether they were right and learn just like he sets that challenge for the players.

Nothing wrong with a proactive change if it takes the game to the opposition, but in this case the change was to sit deeper and ask a footballing side to play football. 

 

Trying to out think the opposition is what all managers do. And trying to make it difficult for the opposition? That’s called defensive strategy I believe, what all coaches do, even the very best.

Just a question, what if he kept the 433 formation and we dropped points. What would your reaction be then?

Nothing wrong with a proactive change, as long as it takes the game to the opposition? I’m afraid you massively overrate this squad. What about a change that sees out the game and results in 3 away points?

A footballing side was asked to play football, and failed.

[22A]

Their match day thread is 43 pages long; https://www.oneboro.co.uk/forum/topic/13616-boro-v-bristol-city-1-2-silvera/page/43/#comments

Carrick as fed up as us fans. He set the team up wrong today but he has been done over continuously by the recruitment. 

Bristol started the game with a 433 and a high press. As usual we can't cope with teams closing us down and in our faces. As we can't defend the inevitable ensued and we crumbled again. Manning clearly done his homework and like many Managers before him castrated Carrick's Plan A. Second half they went to a 541, sat back and defended what they had, conserving energy from running all over the pitch. Tactically it worked and they saw the game out albeit arguably thanks to a debateable offside decision. Their Manager changed tactics from midweek to start the game and then changed them again in the second half to try and get a result rather than believe in one solitary system that fits all.

They were better first half yes, we were crap. Yet we still had a couple of really good chances. Then we had a LOT of great chances second half, scored two goals and they barely got near our box. A game isn't won or lost in one half unless we were 4 or 5 down so you look at the whole game and not let the emotions of the first half cloud your judgement of the game as a whole, which which clearly what you're doing. Either way, we should have been going for a win and a draw would have been disappointing even if we'd managed it so I'm still annoyed and frustrated. 

[Davefevs]

6 minutes ago, UncleRed said:

Just a question, what if he kept the 433 formation and we dropped points. What would your reaction be then?

I know you weren’t asking me, but had we thrown away a 2-0 lead I’d have analysed it in the same way as I did today.  What changed, what impact did it have + / -, was that our change, their change, etc, etc.  why wouldn’t you follow the same method to analyse the pros and cons of a game? 

Just like I’ve highlighted threads of the good things.

[bexhill reds]

1 minute ago, UncleRed said:

Trying to out think the opposition is what all managers do. And trying to make it difficult for the opposition? That’s called defensive strategy I believe, what all coaches do, even the very best.

Just a question, what if he kept the 433 formation and we dropped points. What would your reaction be then?

Nothing wrong with a proactive change, as long as it takes the game to the opposition? I’m afraid you massively overrate this squad. What about a change that sees out the game and results in 3 away points?

A footballing side was asked to play football, and failed.

The decision was to get a team that’s played 120 mins of football on a Wed night and 2 centre halves that have more or less played every minute of football this season to basically recreate Rourke’s Drift for 45 mins by constantly defending. That to me does not suggest we’re making life difficult for the opposition.

I never suggested he keep to 4-3-3 throughout the game, but why not give it 10 mins as a 3rd goal would have killed it.

All if’s buts and maybe’s, we got over the line and that is testament to the players, but not necessarily as a benefit of the change.

Still you won’t have it so best to leave it there. Enjoy your evening.

[UncleRed]

Just now, Davefevs said:

I know you weren’t asking me, but had we thrown away a 2-0 lead I’d have analysed it in the same way as I did today.  What changed, what impact did it have + / -, was that our change, their change, etc, etc.  why wouldn’t you follow the same method to analyse the pros and cons of a game? 

Just like I’ve highlighted threads of the good things.

Except nothing would have changed, there would have been no impact. If you want to analyse a game the same way you analyse every other game, and do it equitably, you have to take in all the parameters leading into and about the game.

Which I think most folks have on here and you haven’t. Just my opinion.

[UncleRed]

2 minutes ago, bexhill reds said:

The decision was to get a team that’s played 120 mins of football on a Wed night and 2 centre halves that have more or less played every minute of football this season to basically recreate Rourke’s Drift for 45 mins by constantly defending. That to me does not suggest we’re making life difficult for the opposition. 

Well it sort of did, they only scored by a deflection and we won the game.

I never suggested he keep to 4-3-3 throughout the game, but why not give it 10 mins as a 3rd goal would have killed it.

Because it could have gone 2-1 and very much not killed the game. The game would of very much been alive.

All if’s buts and maybe’s, we got over the line and that is testament to the players, but not necessarily as a benefit of the change.

Not necessarily, but that means it could have partially been down to the change, we’ll never know unless we have something to compare it to where all variables are the same.

Still you won’t have it so best to leave it there. Enjoy your evening.

Still I see you won’t have it either, yeah I agree let’s leave it there. All the best fellow city fan.

 

[W-S-M Seagull]

14 minutes ago, UncleRed said:

Trying to out think the opposition is what all managers do. And trying to make it difficult for the opposition? That’s called defensive strategy I believe, what all coaches do, even the very best.

Just a question, what if he kept the 433 formation and we dropped points. What would your reaction be then?

Nothing wrong with a proactive change, as long as it takes the game to the opposition? I’m afraid you massively overrate this squad. What about a change that sees out the game and results in 3 away points?

A footballing side was asked to play football, and failed.

Boro had the ball in the net twice. They should have drawn. 

We were lucky to get the win. Its about time we had some luck!! 

But let's not pretend this was a tactical masterclass. The first have we were incredibly good, the second half we were shite. 

Yes we got the win today and that's fantastic but my posts are about my long term concern. On another day we draw or lose that due to those changes. Today we shall enjoy the win but its fair for people to have those concerns about the changes we made today. 

[UncleRed]

1 minute ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Boro had the ball in the net twice. They should have drawn. 

We were lucky to get the win. Its about time we had some luck!! 

But let's not pretend this was a tactical masterclass. The first have we were incredibly good, the second half we were shite. 

Yes we got the win today and that's fantastic but my posts are about my long term concern. On another day we draw or lose that due to those changes. Today we shall enjoy the win but its fair for people to have those concerns about the changes we made today. 

The defending certainly wasn’t shite in my opinion. Striker could of been offside on the goal, would need a clearer view than the picture on here.

Not one person on here is calling it a masterclass. Maybe that’s what you want to read and not what you’re actually reading.

[Jerseybean]

MT on his goal celebration…..https://video.twimg.com/amplify_video/1756372936884187138/vid/avc1/320x400/sAtAMUPdEvRGGgBD.mp4?tag=16

 

[W-S-M Seagull]

4 minutes ago, UncleRed said:

The defending certainly wasn’t shite in my opinion. Striker could of been offside on the goal, would need a clearer view than the picture on here.

Not one person on here is calling it a masterclass. Maybe that’s what you want to read and not what you’re actually reading.

Listen, we saw out the game and we won. That's fantastic. But for me the second half we were shite. We offered nothing going forward and including the goal that was given offside which in my opinion was the wrong call, we conceded two goals. That's not good defending. 

Your posts very much suggest you consider it a tactical masterclass. 

[UncleRed]

Just now, W-S-M Seagull said:

Listen, we saw out the game and we won. That's fantastic. But for me the second half we were shite. We offered nothing going forward and including the goal that was given offside which in my opinion was the wrong call, we conceded two goals. That's not good defending. 

Your posts very much suggest you consider it a tactical masterclass. 

No I’ve not once considered it a masterclass, just again, what you want me to think of it as.

‘Listen’