The elephant in the room

[Cowshed]

2 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Max Bird next year maybe..?

Fully fit Naismith and a retained Scott would've given us a bit if everything in midfield IMO. I know that is a very unlikely counter factual but Naismith as the deepest with his range, Scott with his ability to pass, carry, win fouls in both halves and so forth. Knight doing what Knight does.

That could've been well balanced.

However Scott sold, Naismith injured most of the season. Dream on.

Two players there who would vastly improve Bristol City tactical flexibility because of their key technical qualities in key positions.

Think of good possession teams, and great ones, and their systems as ask yourself which ones don't have above average on the ball throughout that spine from GK - CB - CDM - CAM? It will be a short list. 

Thats where Liam Manning is. Working towards a model without yet his quarterbacks, the numerous players to dictate play and uphold the principles. BCFC's football is forming, its in an early developing stage. 

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

24 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

Two players there who would vastly improve Bristol City tactical flexibility because of their key technical qualities in key positions.

Think of good possession teams, and great ones, and their systems as ask yourself which ones don't have above average on the ball throughout that spine from GK - CB - CDM - CAM? It will be a short list. 

Thats where Liam Manning is. Working towards a model without yet his quarterbacks, the numerous players to dictate play and uphold the principles. BCFC's football is forming, its in an early developing stage. 

 

O'Leary could distribute a bit shorter to Vyner then one of Dickie or Atkinson. That CB position is a bit of a challenge when all 3 fit and in form.

In turn, to Naismith who can distribute to Scott and of more of a pressing, counter pressing emphasis Knight if you want to go a bit longer. Scott and the aforementioned about to carry and win free kicks in both halves..can break up or build pressure and perhaps reset some time in possession a bit.

This is purely counter factual as 1 is sold and 2 have rolling injures.

Scott and Naismith though, just IMO can in their own ways or could in their own ways have broken the lines I believe.

[Sleepy1968]

3 hours ago, spudski said:

If we had the same movement and passing angles created in the last third, that we often create in the first thirds, then it could be more productive.

 

This aspect of our play winds me up so much. Unless we've triggered to close down the defence, we are really static in the final third.

 

[Simon bristol]

The transfer window was pretty awful for manning, money spent but only one incoming who is likely to have much game time,, and hes injured.  Not signing a number 9 is a killer though. There have been some tremendous performances, and yet we could easily see what would happen against qpr, and it did, we were pathetic… I haven’t seen anything at this point to really say getting rid of pearson was worth it.

[reddogkev]

My elephant in the room is that Liam Manning is a nice guy, too nice to be a decent manager / coach.  You need to have that fire, that killer instinct to succeed, and he doesn't appear to have it.

I can guarantee now he will stay a few years and nothing will really change.  

We need the manager with aggression that transfer to the players, the sort of passion you see on the touchline.

Manning is definitely a bit too vanilla.

[Mr Popodopolous]

14 minutes ago, reddogkev said:

My elephant in the room is that Liam Manning is a nice guy, too nice to be a decent manager / coach.  You need to have that fire, that killer instinct to succeed, and he doesn't appear to have it.

I can guarantee now he will stay a few years and nothing will really change.  

We need the manager with aggression that transfer to the players, the sort of passion you see on the touchline.

Manning is definitely a bit too vanilla.

Yeah, good point. (I also have my doubts about some of his tactics for certain games and substitutions).

He doesn't really get into the officials tbh, he doesn't seem the sort of manager who could whip up a bit of a siege mentality. We need it as a club,we need to toughen up and smarten up a bit..we very seldom seem to get favours from anyone else in the game, or large and weird slices of luck falling our way.

[The Coach]

9 minutes ago, reddogkev said:

My elephant in the room is that Liam Manning is a nice guy, too nice to be a decent manager / coach.  You need to have that fire, that killer instinct to succeed, and he doesn't appear to have it.

I can guarantee now he will stay a few years and nothing will really change.  

We need the manager with aggression that transfer to the players, the sort of passion you see on the touchline.

Manning is definitely a bit too vanilla.

And that is what the Lansdown’s want.

We are simply a cosy club. We will not shake off that tag until under new ownership. 

[fisherrich]

NP was the best manager down here for years, that there is no doubt. No resources or financial backing offered by Lansdown. Lansdownes need to go.

[lenred]

5 minutes ago, The Coach said:

And that is what the Lansdown’s want.

We are simply a cosy club. We will not shake off that tag until under new ownership. 

Beat me to it.   It’s exactly what they want.  Same with LJ…….those that challenge fall by the way side.   But we all know those stories already…... really hope Manning betrays his nice person demeanour behind closed doors, as and when it’s needed. 

[W-S-M Seagull]

Joe Edwards another one sacked today after 18 games. 

 

 

 

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

Cifuentes and Rohl from the position they inherited have done well.

Rohl had 3 pts from 11 games, record breaking bad, Cifuentes one home win in 10 months or whatever, 8 points 14 games.

Plymouth would've kept Schumacher given the choice, he quit to go to Stoke.

Mowbray has begun fine but far too soon to glean long term trends. Now health issues will force his absence for a while.

In our case though, it perhaps reinforces the folly of the decision to change anyway.

Edited February 21 by Mr Popodopolous

[W-S-M Seagull]

5 minutes ago, Gaseater said:

How many championship managerial changes this season has had the desired transformational effect that the op is demanding?

Brum - Rooney sacked, Mowbray limited

Blackburn - Eustace tbc

BCFC - Manning limited

Huddersfield - Moore sacked

Millwall - Edwards sacked

Plymouth - Foster limited 

QPR - Cifuentes limited

Rotherham - Richardson limited

Sheff Wed - Rohl limited

Sunderland - Beale Sacked

Swansea - Williams limited 

There hasn’t been a single championship managerial change that has had a significant impact on league position or upturn in fortunes, so you are asking Manning to achieve something that no one else in the league has been able to do. 

 

Rohl - 26 points

Manning - 23 points

[Tim Monaghan]

19 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

There is an uncomfortable truth that Manning has failed on the brief of making us compete this season. That objective has not been met.

We’ve had a few flashes in the pan but ultimately we have not taken the steps forward that Manning was expected to do.

He came in here and inherited a decent squad. The board felt the squad was good enough to compete. We all have our own opinions on that. I certainly felt that with a fair wind we could have potentially challenged.

I certainly feel as if the current team is underperforming and is behind of where it should be in it's evolution. I sit here and ask myself the question, would another head coach/manager have gotten more out of this squad? And the answer is a unequivocal yes.

Manning inherited probably the most talented and fittest squad that any manager at Bristol City has inherited for decades in my opinion. The culture was in place. All he needed to do was improve our results.

Up until this point I'm struggling to think of any major improvements we have made under Manning. Maybe slightly better when on the ball? But Manning has failed to sort issues out such as inconsistency, breaking down teams and not being able to beat teams that sit back.

He's been here for 23 games and there has been very little sign that he has the ability to sort these issues out. Teams have figured us out and there is no plan b.

Now I'm going early on this and I fully accept any flak I may get for going early but I'm looking towards the summer now.

Sunderland saw it wasn't working with Beale and got rid.

I hear lots of people say "well he needs a pre season, he needs his own players" etc. That excuse doesn't really wash with me. He was brought in to have us competing this season with this squad. The front foot football that we were promised has by and large not materialised.

Now the elephant in the room is - the summer. I've not seen anything of note that gives me confidence that even with a pre season, even with a few of his own players that he will be able to get us competing. Mannings in game management has given me concerns.

And that's the conundrum here. Do we alllow Manning to rip up this squad and rebuild it with players that suit his style with there being no guarantees that will work out or do we have those difficult conversations that actually this isn't working out how we expected it to?

I dont want to be getting to October/November next season and thinking great here's another lost opportunity.

9 points from the last 9 games / 2 wins from 9 is totally not acceptable.

I'm trying to look at this with my neutral hat on, although unfortunately for @W-S-M Seagull, his bias towards NP and his feelings towards Manning are so far ingrained it's hard to read a post from you without the obvious agenda that is laced throughout the post.

"We’ve had a few flashes in the pan but ultimately we have not taken the steps forward that Manning was expected to do." - Whose expectation are we talking about here? The fans, JL, yours? I think we need to get rid of this "top 6" notion. Did anyone actually say this? The fans, well, I think anyone with any sense could tell that we didn't have a top 6 side. NP inherited a side which contained AS, AS, TK, and DB and we still weren't able to get top 6, let alone midtable.

"He's been here for 23 games and there has been very little sign that he has the ability to sort these issues out. Teams have figured us out and there is no plan B." - So are we at the point to judge a manager on 18 league games? Because NP won 2, drew 3, and lost 9 in the first 14 games he was in charge (only had 14 until the end of the season and I don't think it's fair to compare after NP had a summer transfer window and a whole offseason). Scoring 14 and conceding 25. Whereas Manning has a record of 4 wins, 5 draws, 5 losses. Scoring 17 and conceding 17. Bearing in mind we've played Southampton, Leeds, Sunderland, Hull, Preston, and Coventry all in those first 14 games too (All top 10 sides at present). I don't remember a single "Elephant in the room" when Pearson started like that, with a better side (as above). As you've said, shouldn't a coach/manager improve the players he's got? He had Alex Scott, Antoine Semenyo (who he dropped), Tomas Kalas, and Dan Bentley in the team ffs.

"I hear lots of people say "well he needs a preseason, he needs his own players" etc." - So you didn't want Pearson to have a preseason and get his own players in that summer then after that awful form when he took over tp the end of the season? In fact, you said about Pearson "Come the summer we are going to be in a very good place. Like we've finally managed to reset ourselves."

"9 points from the last 9 games / 2 wins from 9 is totally not acceptable." - I swear you're on a wind-up. I'll take Nigel Pearson's reign in blocks of 9 from the start:

1st block of 9 games - 8 points 2 wins from 9 - Not acceptable

2nd block of 9 games (1st 5 games 20/21 2nd 4 games 21/22 and a summer) - 5 points 1 win for 9 - Not acceptable

3rd block of 9 games - 12 points 3 wins from 9 - Acceptable?

4th block of 9 games - 11 points 3 wins from 9 - Acceptable?

5th Block of 9 games - 9 points - 3 wins from 9 - Not acceptable

6th block of 9 games - 7 points - 2 wins from 9 - Not Acceptable

Shall I go on?

Look, @W-S-M Seagull I admire your passion for Pearson and I actually respect it in an way, but I would respect you so much more as a poster if you weren't so ridiculously bias and hypocritical when it comes to the two managers. That's what this is all about, right? 

P.s It isn't "The elephant in the room" if its constantly talked about every second of the day, its actually the opposite.

[ExiledAjax]

1 minute ago, Gaseater said:

I would argue they have done a very similar job to Manning - ok, nothing special. 

Nah you can't have that. Both have  improved their teams.

Ruhl especially has taken Sheffield Weds from a team that was going to be relegated before Valentine's Day to one that's got a half chance of staying up.

[Mr Popodopolous]

17 minutes ago, Gaseater said:

I would argue they have done a very similar job to Manning - ok, nothing special. 

Context is very important.

Under Ainsworth QPR looked doomed, Sheffield Wednesday looked in terrible trouble when Rohl came in..3 points from 11 games, 0 wins.

Rohl- 26 pts, 22 games.

Xisco- 2 pts, 10 games

Caretaker 1 pt, 1 game

Cifuentes- 24 pts, 19 games.

Ainsworth- 8 pts, 14 games

Pearson- 18 pts, 14

Fleming- 3 pts, 1 game

Manning 23 pts, 18 games

Edited February 21 by Mr Popodopolous

[ExiledAjax]

7 minutes ago, Gaseater said:

They have improved their sides, but it would’ve been very difficult not to wouldn’t it? 

So you admit they have had a positive effect, but belittle and downplay that by saying that it wasn't hard to improve them.

Btw I don't see what bearing other managerial changes have on the merit of our own. I know you didn't bring that into the conversation either. 

I really think it's quite irrelevant.

Edited February 21 by ExiledAjax

[pillred]

15 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Sunderland didn't consider it to be too soon for Beale. 1.17 ppg from 12 games. 

Currently Manning is on 1.27 ppg.

Manning was on 1.25 after 12 games.

Holden was sacked with a 1.44 ppg from 41 games.

Holden was also sacked from Charlton with a ppg of 1.28 from 32 games. 

Pearson was sacked with a higher PPG in the 18 games he managed this season. 18 games was enough to decide Pearsons future. 

It's OK to reserve judgment but to me there is a trend developing. 

But Pearson was given 3 years, not just the 18 games at the end. I would hope we have learned that chopping and changing managers does not usually work and it's not as if we need to panic as barring an unlikely set of results we are safe this season, perhaps if we were in relegation trouble your suggestion would carry more merit.

[IAmNick]

I think quite often teams who are playing very poorly for a time and fire their manager will then naturally improve purely by regression to the mean. Whether it was the new manager or not is hard to tell.

City weren't in some awful death spiral of results though, and have largely continued as we were. It's not really comparing apples to apples in a lot of these cases imo.

[ExiledAjax]

1 minute ago, IAmNick said:

I think quite often teams who are playing very poorly for a time and fire their manager will then naturally improve purely by regression to the mean. Whether it was the new manager or not is hard to tell.

City weren't in some awful death spiral of results though, and have largely continued as we were. It's not really comparing apples to apples in a lot of these cases imo.

Yes, the infamous "bounce" is normally observed only in those underperforming teams. There was no reason to expect a bounce when Manning was appointed.

[Silvio Dante]

1 minute ago, IAmNick said:

I think quite often teams who are playing very poorly for a time and fire their manager will then naturally improve purely by regression to the mean. Whether it was the new manager or not is hard to tell.

City weren't in some awful death spiral of results though, and have largely continued as we were. It's not really comparing apples to apples in a lot of these cases imo.

Yep there is a lot of whataboutery creeping in here. The fact is taking over Sheffield Weds who were up shit creek is a different proposition from taking over Bristol City who were in a decent position with a motivated squad. On a similar basis, taking over City this season is a different challenge to taking over City post Holden where we were genuinely abysmal.

The basic fact is that managers typically take over a side in one of two circumstances - a sacking due to poor performance or the old manager being poached. It’s really unusual to take over a mid table side with aspirations of the playoffs mid season with nothing majorly wrong. 
 

And once again, that is why comparing Liams first x games to Niges first x games or to Sheffield Weds (worse position on takeover) is futile and really just muddies things. Why people want to do that, who knows?

It again comes down to the basic question: With what people have seen from Liam to date - and not comparing him with Nige - what confidence do they have that he’ll get it right bearing in mind what we’ve seen here and what he’s done elsewhere? And getting it right cannot be not progressing from the base and spending money to do so - you wouldn’t do that in any business. It has to be improvement.

Everything else is just noise.

[George Rs]

Think anyone who wants Manning gone in the summer needs to take a breath and calm down personally, that type of logic and irrationality put us in a hole so big our previous manager spent his whole tenure trying, and succeeding, to pull the club out of it. 
 

He’s got an upper mid/midtable squad to exactly that position. Whilst putting on some cracking performances in the cup. 
I could go on for quite a while about why I feel quite optimistic about Manning personally. 

[Silvio Dante]

3 minutes ago, George Rs said:

Think anyone who wants Manning gone in the summer needs to take a breath and calm down personally, that type of logic and irrationality put us in a hole so big our previous manager spent his whole tenure trying, and succeeding, to pull the club out of it. 
 

He’s got an upper mid/midtable squad to exactly that position. Whilst putting on some cracking performances in the cup. 
I could go on for quite a while about why I feel quite optimistic about Manning personally. 

Ummm…

Without saying he should go, we were in such a big hole that Pearson had to pull us out of precisely because we held onto a manager for too long and let him spend too much money, therefore ending up with a bloated and overpaid squad. The root cause was not making a quicker decision on Lee Johnson and ending up with too many players. Holden was then a continuation of that - we sacked him correctly quickly but the reason for the mess was entirely the opposite of what your post suggests.

[George Rs]

7 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

Ummm…

Without saying he should go, we were in such a big hole that Pearson had to pull us out of precisely because we held onto a manager for too long and let him spend too much money, therefore ending up with a bloated and overpaid squad. The root cause was not making a quicker decision on Lee Johnson and ending up with too many players. Holden was then a continuation of that - we sacked him correctly quickly but the reason for the mess was entirely the opposite of what your post suggests.

Didn’t mean with manager hiring/firing specifically, just broader irrational decision making from senior staff. 

[Silvio Dante]

Just now, George Rs said:

Didn’t mean with manager hiring/firing specifically, just broader irrational decision making from senior staff. 

Ok - what was the irrational decision making from senior staff that led to the hole Pearson had to pull us out of? Because the answer genuinely is that we spent too much money and kept faith with a manager too long.

I’m not saying Manning should be sacked. What would lead us exactly down the same hole though is spending loads of money on “his players” if the club are in any doubt as to whether he’s the man long term. And as this thread displays, there is significant doubt over that amongst a lot of the fanbase currently.

The very worst case scenario is supporting him in the summer and then having to fire him by Christmas. Unless he improves his game management markedly, then that is a very plausible one though - and puts us down that hole.

[Superjack]

2 hours ago, reddogkev said:

My elephant in the room is that Liam Manning is a nice guy, too nice to be a decent manager / coach.  You need to have that fire, that killer instinct to succeed, and he doesn't appear to have it.

I can guarantee now he will stay a few years and nothing will really change.  

We need the manager with aggression that transfer to the players, the sort of passion you see on the touchline.

Manning is definitely a bit too vanilla.

And we all know why we keep ending up with 'vanilla'...

[Mr Popodopolous]

16 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

Ok - what was the irrational decision making from senior staff that led to the hole Pearson had to pull us out of? Because the answer genuinely is that we spent too much money and kept faith with a manager too long.

I’m not saying Manning should be sacked. What would lead us exactly down the same hole though is spending loads of money on “his players” if the club are in any doubt as to whether he’s the man long term. And as this thread displays, there is significant doubt over that amongst a lot of the fanbase currently.

The very worst case scenario is supporting him in the summer and then having to fire him by Christmas. Unless he improves his game management markedly, then that is a very plausible one though - and puts us down that hole.

Pearson and Gould fwiw, they were a perfect team.

On that second point, I don't have confidence in the checks and balances combining finance and football with the current hierarchy as I did with that pair especially.

Edited February 21 by Mr Popodopolous

[Superjack]

Pearson was the right man and Manning isn't. That isn't Manning's fault. 

It's pointless debating it anyway, because we will go nowhere until the Lansdowns and their puppet leave. 

 

[George Rs]

2 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

Ok - what was the irrational decision making from senior staff that led to the hole Pearson had to pull us out of? Because the answer genuinely is that we spent too much money and kept faith with a manager too long.

I’m not saying Manning should be sacked. What would lead us exactly down the same hole though is spending loads of money on “his players” if the club are in any doubt as to whether he’s the man long term. And as this thread displays, there is significant doubt over that amongst a lot of the fanbase currently.

The very worst case scenario is supporting him in the summer and then having to fire him by Christmas. Unless he improves his game management markedly, then that is a very plausible one though - and puts us down that hole.

Yes agreed, didn’t explain my point very well there. 
 

I think they’ve already got the ball rolling though with the transfers we’ve completed in January. Bird, Murphy, stokes and Mebude (option) all seem like Manning signings based on their profile. And many of them have links to him that would verify it. 

Personally think he’s alright with game management as well, did it almost perfectly in our fa cup games. Changed things against borough, to the liking/disliking of many, but ultimately got the points in the bag. And managed the Southampton game very well. Don’t think the QPR match which to me just screamed of mental/physical fatigue should take away from those performances. 

[W-S-M Seagull]

1 minute ago, Tim Monaghan said:

I'm trying to look at this with my neutral hat on, although unfortunately for @W-S-M Seagull, his bias towards NP and his feelings towards Manning are so far ingrained it's hard to read a post from you without the obvious agenda that is laced throughout the post.

"We’ve had a few flashes in the pan but ultimately we have not taken the steps forward that Manning was expected to do." - Whose expectation are we talking about here? The fans, JL, yours? I think we need to get rid of this "top 6" notion. Did anyone actually say this? The fans, well, I think anyone with any sense could tell that we didn't have a top 6 side. NP inherited a side which contained AS, AS, TK, and DB and we still weren't able to get top 6, let alone midtable.

"He's been here for 23 games and there has been very little sign that he has the ability to sort these issues out. Teams have figured us out and there is no plan B." - So are we at the point to judge a manager on 18 league games? Because NP won 2, drew 3, and lost 9 in the first 14 games he was in charge (only had 14 until the end of the season and I don't think it's fair to compare after NP had a summer transfer window and a whole offseason). Scoring 14 and conceding 25. Whereas Manning has a record of 4 wins, 5 draws, 5 losses. Scoring 17 and conceding 17. Bearing in mind we've played Southampton, Leeds, Sunderland, Hull, Preston, and Coventry all in those first 14 games too (All top 10 sides at present). I don't remember a single "Elephant in the room" when Pearson started like that, with a better side (as above). As you've said, shouldn't a coach/manager improve the players he's got? He had Alex Scott, Antoine Semenyo (who he dropped), Tomas Kalas, and Dan Bentley in the team ffs.

"I hear lots of people say "well he needs a preseason, he needs his own players" etc." - So you didn't want Pearson to have a preseason and get his own players in that summer then after that awful form when he took over tp the end of the season? In fact, you said about Pearson "Come the summer we are going to be in a very good place. Like we've finally managed to reset ourselves."

"9 points from the last 9 games / 2 wins from 9 is totally not acceptable." - I swear you're on a wind-up. I'll take Nigel Pearson's reign in blocks of 9 from the start:

1st block of 9 games - 8 points 2 wins from 9 - Not acceptable

2nd block of 9 games (1st 5 games 20/21 2nd 4 games 21/22 and a summer) - 5 points 1 win for 9 - Not acceptable

3rd block of 9 games - 12 points 3 wins from 9 - Acceptable?

4th block of 9 games - 11 points 3 wins from 9 - Acceptable?

5th Block of 9 games - 9 points - 3 wins from 9 - Not acceptable

6th block of 9 games - 7 points - 2 wins from 9 - Not Acceptable

Shall I go on?

Look, @W-S-M Seagull I admire your passion for Pearson and I actually respect it in an way, but I would respect you so much more as a poster if you weren't so ridiculously bias and hypocritical when it comes to the two managers. That's what this is all about, right? 

P.s It isn't "The elephant in the room" if its constantly talked about every second of the day, its actually the opposite.

You can keep trying to frame this as me having an agenda and that it's all about Nigel Pearson as much as you like. It doesn't make it true Tim. That shows your own agenda doesnt it? All you're trying to do is to create a smokescreen because you don't like the uncomfortable truths being spoken about. So you have to try and attack and belittle me in order to try to get me to stop talking about them.

Why do you and others like you have an inability to accept that fans have a genuine concern with how the club is run from the top down? Why is that an alien concept for you? Why does football fans caring about the club they pay to support, bother you so much? 

Once Pearson went I quickly moved on to who the replacement would be. From day one I said Manning was the wrong replacement and after 18 league games that opinion of mine has got even more robust. 

It was OK of course for me to be pissed off with JL, BT and GM about the ridiculous decision to sack a manager after a defeat to Ipswich and defeat to Cardiff with barely 11 fit first team players and to then also have a separate opinion on the replacement. 

Those two things are not mutually exclusive. But for some reason to you they are. 

Had we of appointed a manager that fitted the squad we have and then improved us, I'd not be posting this thread. 

I'm talking about the here and the now and the position we find ourselves in. My general observations is the only ones that keep talking about Pearson is those who were anti Pearson. 

It's hard to take posts like yours seriously when it's clear it's dripping in bias around your dislike for the previous manager. You want Manning to be a success because you want to be right about Pearson. I want Manning to be a success because I want success for Bristol City. That's the difference. 

Can we please stop with this bs about none of us actually thought we had a top 6 side. You're using that to play down Mannings underwhelming record. 

I posted a poll on here on Aug 3rd asking where posters where they think we'd finish

Here's the results -

Automatic - 1.82%

Play offs - 23.36% 

7th - 12th - 65.69%

13th - 21st - 8.76%

Relegation - 0.36%

The vast majority expected an improvement on last season. 

 

Please feel free to go back and look at the comments.

Why are you comparing Pearsons start here with Mannings? It's an incompatible comparison. 

It's already been discussed in this thread. Pearson came in and we were possibly heading for relegation with a shite squad that had many issues. The expectations were different. 

Manning came in and he had an oven ready squad to take it forward. He's failed to do that. Everything was in place for him to do that. He didn't need to come in and build a culture or improve the squad's fitness etc. It was all there. It does you no favours trying to suggest the two situations were similar when in fact it was night and day. The fact you're suggesting they are similar says a lot about your agenda. 

This is the team that played in the game Vs Boro when Pearson took over

Bentley - Kalas - Mariappa- Vyner - Towler - Nagy - Bakinson - Palmer - Hunt - Wells - Diedhiou 

To suggest that team is better than the one we have now to try and get the violins out for Manning is probably the most ridiculous thing I've read on here. Once again, I have to ask myself why are you saying that team is better? When it clearly wasn't. 

Pearson earned the right to have a pre season. All of us accepted that we needed to undergo a rebuild and patience was required. 

Most of us will agree that Pearson was successful with the rebuild at the same time as avoiding ffp punishment. 

Why are you providing random blocks of games in entirely different circumstances? Did Nigel have that oven ready squad then? No, so it's irrelevant. 

The only blocks relevant is this sesson once the reset had happened. 

This season 

Pearson

1st block of 9 - 12 points 3 wins

Next 5 games - 6 points 2 wins. Some may want to include the win Vs Sheffield Wed in that. 

You often ignore the context of how we had lots of injuries etc. 

Manning

1st block of 9 - 14 points 4 wins

2nd block of 9 - 9 points 2 wins

You also ignore the context that Manning has had greater squad availability. 

You can try and frame me as being biased all you want. But the cold hard facts are posted above which show that rather than me being biased, it's infact yourself. 

My post was about Manning and the future of Bristol City, you've made it about Pearson. Go figure. 

P.s I very clearly said in my post that the elephant in the room is about the summer. That doesn't get discussed on here. 

[Silvio Dante]

2 minutes ago, George Rs said:

Yes agreed, didn’t explain my point very well there. 
 

I think they’ve already got the ball rolling though with the transfers we’ve completed in January. Bird, Murphy, stokes and Mebude (option) all seem like Manning signings based on their profile. And many of them have links to him that would verify it. 

Personally think he’s alright with game management as well, did it almost perfectly in our fa cup games. Changed things against borough, to the liking/disliking of many, but ultimately got the points in the bag. And managed the Southampton game very well. Don’t think the QPR match which to me just screamed of mental/physical fatigue should take away from those performances. 

No problem, you know the drill, if you say something be prepared to justify it!

I’ve said elsewhere that I quite liked our January window. I had a problem with the Twine signing as it was just expensive vanity to get us a couple of places higher. It appears from limited evidence that Medube may not be up to it so no harm done. Bird I think looks good business and he’s been on radar (at least with @Mr Popodopolous!) long term as has Murphy. Stokes I agree Manning is the deciding factor - Tommy Widdrington confirmed in an interview this week that LM coached him previously. But the fact is that two of those are looking at an enormous step up and are punts at best, so we’ve only got one real first team signing confirmed in Bird. That means to shape LMs side the way he wants, we will have to spend money so we’re back to the question of how good an idea that is.

Id have to disagree on the management of games, and even a lot of “pro” LM posters have noted it could be better. You’ve missed from your list a load where IMO it’s been sub par (takes breath) including Millwall, Boro (H), QPR (A), Preston, Soton (A), Birmingham….we can agree to disagree but it’s been pretty glaring so far I’d say and it is an issue for him. It’s the thing that’ll do him in more than anything else and as long as the concern remains I’d be reticent to give him significant funds.