Counterpoints

[BCFCGav]

Anticipate a battering here but I’ll post my thoughts anyway. 
 

We should keep him. LM is going poorly - let’s have it right. We’ve lost to three teams with worse squads than us on the spin. Criticism is more than fair and us, as paying and long-suffering supporters, are qualified to give it.

But.

- These are not his players. They don’t suit his style. His one ‘big’ signing in his mould is injured (an ongoing issue here that long precedes LM). He will need the summer.

- The same idiots still own the club. The next appointment will also struggle - they struggle at appointing managers.

- He’s got over 3 years of contract left. So has his assistant. We’ve sorted our money issues, let’s not piss all that money away now.

- This will be the least popular one. We showed some signs of progress today. We nicked the ball high on about 4 occasions, that’s our best avenue of attack and we saw signs of it. I actually think we were the better team today. They scored one set piece, and their keeper had a solid game. Today was better, albeit against a low bar.

 

We’re safe this season. Some will say we’re not but we are. 9 points AND 9 places clear. 6 more points from 11 games will do it. 
 

The problems lie above his head, and until they’re gone, we will always fail at this level. No amount of chopping and changing managers will change that fact. And even if they do finally get it right and appoint a man to take us forward… we know they’ll sack him anyway. 
 

 

[Littlesh*t]

Sorry but completely disagree. We weren't the better side today, it was 2 crap sides but they wanted it a little more. After the 1st 20 mins we did nothing.

 

As for not his players, this is the "great coach" who can make players better. We'll I am certainly not seeing that and at least seen commitment under Pearson. Pearson had to bring a starting 11 together from nothing and got us going. For Manning to have "his" players that is going to coat a lot of money.

 

Would much rather we got rid now and give someone a real chance to move us forward again. Would love for that to be Pearson under new ownership but that won't happen.

[Aipearcey]

Exactly, they’re not his players and they don’t suit his style of play. So why the f*#k does he keep trying to make them play it?!? Play in a way that suits the players and try and grind a few results out, but no he’s too pigheaded to do anything other than the way he wants regardless of the results.

[Graham76]

5 minutes ago, BCFCGav said:

Anticipate a battering here but I’ll post my thoughts anyway. 
 

We should keep him. LM is going poorly - let’s have it right. We’ve lost to three teams with worse squads than us on the spin. Criticism is more than fair and us, as paying and long-suffering supporters, are qualified to give it.

But.

- These are not his players. They don’t suit his style. His one ‘big’ signing in his mould is injured (an ongoing issue here that long precedes LM). He will need the summer.

- The same idiots still own the club. The next appointment will also struggle - they struggle at appointing managers.

- He’s got over 3 years of contract left. So has his assistant. We’ve sorted our money issues, let’s not piss all that money away now.

- This will be the least popular one. We showed some signs of progress today. We nicked the ball high on about 4 occasions, that’s our best avenue of attack and we saw signs of it. I actually think we were the better team today. They scored one set piece, and their keeper had a solid game. Today was better, albeit against a low bar.

 

We’re safe this season. Some will say we’re not but we are. 9 points AND 9 places clear. 6 more points from 11 games will do it. 
 

The problems lie above his head, and until they’re gone, we will always fail at this level. No amount of chopping and changing managers will change that fact. And even if they do finally get it right and appoint a man to take us forward… we know they’ll sack him anyway. 
 

 

Is this a wind up?

Your last point is ridiculous.  Manning is tactically inept. 

[JP Hampton]

8 minutes ago, BCFCGav said:

But.

- These are not his players. They don’t suit his style. His one ‘big’ signing in his mould is injured (an ongoing issue here that long precedes LM). He will need the summer.

 
 

 

And this is completely on the owners cos they were the players he was given and told were top end ready.
 

 Did people say “they’re not Pearson’s players? Genuine question. 

Edited March 2 by JP Hampton

[Banjo Red]

9 minutes ago, BCFCGav said:

Anticipate a battering here but I’ll post my thoughts anyway. 
 

We should keep him. LM is going poorly - let’s have it right. We’ve lost to three teams with worse squads than us on the spin. Criticism is more than fair and us, as paying and long-suffering supporters, are qualified to give it.

But.

- These are not his players. They don’t suit his style. His one ‘big’ signing in his mould is injured (an ongoing issue here that long precedes LM). He will need the summer.

- The same idiots still own the club. The next appointment will also struggle - they struggle at appointing managers.

- He’s got over 3 years of contract left. So has his assistant. We’ve sorted our money issues, let’s not piss all that money away now.

- This will be the least popular one. We showed some signs of progress today. We nicked the ball high on about 4 occasions, that’s our best avenue of attack and we saw signs of it. I actually think we were the better team today. They scored one set piece, and their keeper had a solid game. Today was better, albeit against a low bar.

 

We’re safe this season. Some will say we’re not but we are. 9 points AND 9 places clear. 6 more points from 11 games will do it. 
 

The problems lie above his head, and until they’re gone, we will always fail at this level. No amount of chopping and changing managers will change that fact. And even if they do finally get it right and appoint a man to take us forward… we know they’ll sack him anyway. 
 

 

What??

[BCFCGav]

2 minutes ago, Graham76 said:

Is this a wind up?

Your last point is ridiculous.  Manning is tactically inept. 

No it’s not. With these owners the kitchen will always be on fire. What’s the point in changing the head chef? 
 

They screwed up by sacking Pearson then appointed the wrong man. The next one will likely be wrong too. What’s the point in just restarting the cycle?

Edited March 2 by BCFCGav

[mjd]

At the moment I cannot see where the next points are coming from . Hope you are right and we get them .

[BetterRedthanBlue]

The players seem confused under Manning. Under Nige everyone knew their role.

We look best when the players go back to how they were under Nige, sit back and hit them on the counter.

To bring in "his" players to suit his style will cost a lot of money. I would rather use that money to get rid of him and bring someone in who can use the system we have, won't need to change much and can coach the players to be better.

[winsaw]

Got to disagree with the OP, we are definitely not safe from relegation we are right in the mix to go down the way we are playing, 

And sacking him now will be a loch cheeper that trying to run the club on the small amount of money sides get in league 1

[Monkeh]

4 minutes ago, Aipearcey said:

Exactly, they’re not his players and they don’t suit his style of play. So why the f*#k does he keep trying to make them play it?!? Play in a way that suits the players and try and grind a few results out, but no he’s too pigheaded to do anything other than the way he wants regardless of the results.

The only time we performed or played well is when we had to revert to pearsons style of fast counter attacking football

[IAmNick]

Part of the job of being a manager is working with and improving 'not your players'.  Who gets to work with entirely their own squad? Nobody within a year or two of joining a club at least.

If he can't get results out of a group at least equivalent to what they were doing before then that's on him.

[TomThumb84]

13 minutes ago, BCFCGav said:

Anticipate a battering here but I’ll post my thoughts anyway. 
 

We should keep him. LM is going poorly - let’s have it right. We’ve lost to three teams with worse squads than us on the spin. Criticism is more than fair and us, as paying and long-suffering supporters, are qualified to give it.

But.

- These are not his players. They don’t suit his style. His one ‘big’ signing in his mould is injured (an ongoing issue here that long precedes LM). He will need the summer.

- The same idiots still own the club. The next appointment will also struggle - they struggle at appointing managers.

- He’s got over 3 years of contract left. So has his assistant. We’ve sorted our money issues, let’s not piss all that money away now.

- This will be the least popular one. We showed some signs of progress today. We nicked the ball high on about 4 occasions, that’s our best avenue of attack and we saw signs of it. I actually think we were the better team today. They scored one set piece, and their keeper had a solid game. Today was better, albeit against a low bar.

 

We’re safe this season. Some will say we’re not but we are. 9 points AND 9 places clear. 6 more points from 11 games will do it. 
 

The problems lie above his head, and until they’re gone, we will always fail at this level. No amount of chopping and changing managers will change that fact. And even if they do finally get it right and appoint a man to take us forward… we know they’ll sack him anyway. 
 

 

Pint of what you are having please Squire

[Totterdown's Finest]

10 minutes ago, BCFCGav said:

Anticipate a battering here but I’ll post my thoughts anyway. 
 

We should keep him. LM is going poorly - let’s have it right. We’ve lost to three teams with worse squads than us on the spin. Criticism is more than fair and us, as paying and long-suffering supporters, are qualified to give it.

But.

- These are not his players. They don’t suit his style. His one ‘big’ signing in his mould is injured (an ongoing issue here that long precedes LM). He will need the summer.

- The same idiots still own the club. The next appointment will also struggle - they struggle at appointing managers.

- He’s got over 3 years of contract left. So has his assistant. We’ve sorted our money issues, let’s not piss all that money away now.

- This will be the least popular one. We showed some signs of progress today. We nicked the ball high on about 4 occasions, that’s our best avenue of attack and we saw signs of it. I actually think we were the better team today. They scored one set piece, and their keeper had a solid game. Today was better, albeit against a low bar.

 

We’re safe this season. Some will say we’re not but we are. 9 points AND 9 places clear. 6 more points from 11 games will do it. 
 

The problems lie above his head, and until they’re gone, we will always fail at this level. No amount of chopping and changing managers will change that fact. And even if they do finally get it right and appoint a man to take us forward… we know they’ll sack him anyway. 
 

 

I tend to agree with most of what you see. I wouldn't describe the owners as idiots. I think Lansdown has saved the club in many ways. But, I have to say, I can't say that today showed progress. We were abject, except for the first 10 minutes and a short spell very late on. We weren't the better team. Cardiff are not a great team, and looked happy to play for a draw with a hope of nicking a set-piece, which they did. 

We were poor. We know the players are better than they have shown today, but their confidence is shot and we don't look like scoring, at all.

 

[Fuber]

14 minutes ago, BCFCGav said:

Anticipate a battering here but I’ll post my thoughts anyway. 
 

We should keep him. LM is going poorly - let’s have it right. We’ve lost to three teams with worse squads than us on the spin. Criticism is more than fair and us, as paying and long-suffering supporters, are qualified to give it.

But.

- These are not his players. They don’t suit his style. His one ‘big’ signing in his mould is injured (an ongoing issue here that long precedes LM). He will need the summer.

- The same idiots still own the club. The next appointment will also struggle - they struggle at appointing managers.

- He’s got over 3 years of contract left. So has his assistant. We’ve sorted our money issues, let’s not piss all that money away now.

- This will be the least popular one. We showed some signs of progress today. We nicked the ball high on about 4 occasions, that’s our best avenue of attack and we saw signs of it. I actually think we were the better team today. They scored one set piece, and their keeper had a solid game. Today was better, albeit against a low bar.

 

We’re safe this season. Some will say we’re not but we are. 9 points AND 9 places clear. 6 more points from 11 games will do it. 
 

The problems lie above his head, and until they’re gone, we will always fail at this level. No amount of chopping and changing managers will change that fact. And even if they do finally get it right and appoint a man to take us forward… we know they’ll sack him anyway. 
 

 

Bold I disagree with. We can't take anything for granted in this Division in the slightest. Politely.

[Waffleflap]

I think manning is confusing the players with too much information. Just let them play football and stop trying to make football so complicated.  

[joe jordans teeth]

17 minutes ago, BCFCGav said:

Anticipate a battering here but I’ll post my thoughts anyway. 
 

We should keep him. LM is going poorly - let’s have it right. We’ve lost to three teams with worse squads than us on the spin. Criticism is more than fair and us, as paying and long-suffering supporters, are qualified to give it.

But.

- These are not his players. They don’t suit his style. His one ‘big’ signing in his mould is injured (an ongoing issue here that long precedes LM). He will need the summer.

- The same idiots still own the club. The next appointment will also struggle - they struggle at appointing managers.

- He’s got over 3 years of contract left. So has his assistant. We’ve sorted our money issues, let’s not piss all that money away now.

- This will be the least popular one. We showed some signs of progress today. We nicked the ball high on about 4 occasions, that’s our best avenue of attack and we saw signs of it. I actually think we were the better team today. They scored one set piece, and their keeper had a solid game. Today was better, albeit against a low bar.

 

We’re safe this season. Some will say we’re not but we are. 9 points AND 9 places clear. 6 more points from 11 games will do it. 
 

The problems lie above his head, and until they’re gone, we will always fail at this level. No amount of chopping and changing managers will change that fact. And even if they do finally get it right and appoint a man to take us forward… we know they’ll sack him anyway. 
 

 

So basically he’s blameless for this turgid football his team are producing is what you are saying 

[Graham76]

1 minute ago, BCFCGav said:

No it’s not. With these owners the kitchen will always be on fire. What’s the point in changing the head chef? 
 

They screwed up by sacking Pearson then appointed the wrong man. The next one will likely be wrong too. What’s the point in just restarting the cycle?

I'm sorry, but Manning doesn't get a free pass.    He took the job, despite knowing the unrealistic expectation of reaching the playoffs.  The recent results are on him. 

[REDOXO]

11 minutes ago, Aipearcey said:

Exactly, they’re not his players and they don’t suit his style of play. So why the f*#k does he keep trying to make them play it?!? Play in a way that suits the players and try and grind a few results out, but no he’s too pigheaded to do anything other than the way he wants regardless of the results.

It’s so obvious isn’t it. 

[bearded_red]

I too enjoy beer.

[The Original OTIB]

1 minute ago, Fuber said:

Bold I disagree with. We can't take anything for granted in this Division in the slightest. Politely.

Correct. If I could truly see him influencing a game at any point, then there might be hope. Simply put, his in game management sucks. It is so easy for pretty much any team to go through the gears against us, and they rarely need to go beyond third. He's not for changing, and he is no motivator. The last 2 results at least tell you that in spades. No gravitas, no charisma, no serious experience, no tactical flexibility, no leadership, a blamer and a bluffer for us so far. Needs 3 wins at least from the next 5, with some style to indicate anything to the contrary. Yes, we can blame him. He's the wrong man for the job, granted, but he still could have made a better fist of it by truly working with what he's got. That would be the sensible, experienced thing to do.

[Harry]

I’ll tell you where I am. 
 

Today was the worst performance under Manning so far. 
 

I am someone who originally said on here that I didn’t think Manning’s style would suit our players. 
However, once he was appointed I was happy to see what he could do. 
 

I felt in the early games I did see some signs of progress. He did actually manage to get our players to start to keep the ball much better. Ok, a lot of it was quite slow possession, but that’s where the ‘fit’ comes in. Our players and his style do not fit. 
So whilst they showed some signs of being able to keep the ball a bit better, it was never consistent enough nor anywhere near quick or slick enough. But the early signs were one of “ok, he can at least get them to pass it to each other which I didn’t think was possible”. 
 

The other slight positives I saw in some of the early games was the ability for us to run in behind full backs, and into channels, where ‘sometimes’ someone had the ounce of ability to find the right pass. 
I felt a little positive on some of those early games that he was a) managing to get us to keep the ball better and b) managing to get some decent movement up front. 
 

But…… and it’s a big BUT. It’s REALLY REALLY tailed off. To the point where I am now majorly concerned. 
 

Those early signs were enough for me to say “ok, let’s give him a bit of time and see what he can do”. 
But the last 2 months have been pretty dreadful. 
The only game where I felt really positive was after Watford away. I thought in that game we had found a formula. We were good both on the ball and off of it and we looked really well organised. 
Ever since then I haven’t seen any positives. And things have been sliding backwards quite badly. 
 

To the opening poster - whilst I can understand your points to a certain extent, I actually think the writing is on the wall now and I can’t personally put any faith in Manning any more. 
 

There are a few things to note :

1) We spent 2.5 years signing players who were ‘runners’ ‘counter attackers’ ‘workers’. We then approach and poach a manager (who didn’t apply for the role) who clearly has a CV which displays a totally different philosophy. 
Why?? 
 

2) We have a good stadium and a good base to build from but we continually employ people who are not ‘best in class’. I am still highly critical of our recruitment set up. Even more so now - if we are targeting a manager with a clear body of work that doesn’t align in any way possible with the players we’ve spent 3 years signing. 
If Mannings head has to roll then so does Tinnion’s head and Gilhespy’s head 
 

3) Prior to this week I was still sitting in the camp that says “ok, let’s give him time” but the recent trend has been very much downward and today for me was a low. Very very poor in all aspects both on the pitch and tactically. 
The press conference on Thursday was very telling for me. Manning openly admitted that this squad were not capable of playing his way. 
Mainly, that is a huge fault of Tinnion. But for me Manning shouldn’t have said this and shouldn’t be looking to adapt. He really should stick to his principals. 
I don’t think he should adapt to this group. He should double down on his beliefs. After all; that was why we poached him! 
That for me showed a weak mentality. I’d prefer him to stick to his guns, but he wilted in front of my eyes. 
And then with a performance like today, that was now the final straw for me. 

Edited March 2 by Harry

[BCFCGav]

9 minutes ago, joe jordans teeth said:

So basically he’s blameless for this turgid football his team are producing is what you are saying 

Not blameless, but massively diminished responsibility. Look higher. They don’t know anything about football and it shows.

[Capman]

There is nothing I detest more than dishonesty. JL told us that they were making a change because we were underperforming on the pitch with the squad we had and a change in the dugout would make that right. If he lied about the squad, he needs to go. If he was right about the squad, but picked the wrong manager he, Manning and Tinnion all need to go. But for me there is no acceptable outcome which leaves JL as chairman. He needs to go. He has treated all fans as fools. He lied to us, and that can and will never be acceptable. 

[chinapig]

25 minutes ago, BCFCGav said:

These are not his players. They don’t suit his style. His one ‘big’ signing in his mould is injured (an ongoing issue here that long precedes LM). He will need the summer.

So we replace the players rather than play in a way that suits them? That seems rather expensive though no doubt he will have money thrown at him in an attempt to rescue JL and BT from their own lies and incompetence.

At least you didn't say 3 transfer windows.

 

[italian dave]

1 minute ago, Capman said:

There is nothing I detest more than dishonesty. JL told us that they were making a change because we were underperforming on the pitch with the squad we had and a change in the dugout would make that right. If he lied about the squad, he needs to go. If he was right about the squad, but picked the wrong manager he, Manning and Tinnion all need to go. But for me there is no acceptable outcome which leaves JL as chairman. He needs to go. He has treated all fans as fools. He lied to us, and that can and will never be acceptable. 

Owners don’t just “go”. Get real. Unpalatable as that may be. 

[BCFCGav]

1 minute ago, Capman said:

There is nothing I detest more than dishonesty. JL told us that they were making a change because we were underperforming on the pitch with the squad we had and a change in the dugout would make that right. If he lied about the squad, he needs to go. If he was right about the squad, but picked the wrong manager he, Manning and Tinnion all need to go. But for me there is no acceptable outcome which leaves JL as chairman. He needs to go. He has treated all fans as fools. He lied to us, and that can and will never be acceptable. 

I agree with you completely. And we’re suffering for his lies now.

[Barrs Court Red]

1 minute ago, italian dave said:

Owners don’t just “go”. Get real. Unpalatable as that may be. 

He’s not an owner? 

[BCFC101]

Agreed that sacking Manning won’t fix the real problem at this football club which is the Lansdown family. Until they go, we’re getting nowhere near the Prem. 
 

But I really can’t understand what progress and improvement you think you saw today, it was dreadful 

[South Bristol Red]

31 minutes ago, BCFCGav said:

Anticipate a battering here but I’ll post my thoughts anyway. 
 

We should keep him. LM is going poorly - let’s have it right. We’ve lost to three teams with worse squads than us on the spin. Criticism is more than fair and us, as paying and long-suffering supporters, are qualified to give it.

But.

- These are not his players. They don’t suit his style. His one ‘big’ signing in his mould is injured (an ongoing issue here that long precedes LM). He will need the summer.

- The same idiots still own the club. The next appointment will also struggle - they struggle at appointing managers.

- He’s got over 3 years of contract left. So has his assistant. We’ve sorted our money issues, let’s not piss all that money away now.

- This will be the least popular one. We showed some signs of progress today. We nicked the ball high on about 4 occasions, that’s our best avenue of attack and we saw signs of it. I actually think we were the better team today. They scored one set piece, and their keeper had a solid game. Today was better, albeit against a low bar.

 

We’re safe this season. Some will say we’re not but we are. 9 points AND 9 places clear. 6 more points from 11 games will do it. 
 

The problems lie above his head, and until they’re gone, we will always fail at this level. No amount of chopping and changing managers will change that fact. And even if they do finally get it right and appoint a man to take us forward… we know they’ll sack him anyway. 
 

 

As things stand it is 6 points, could be much closer by the end of this coming week. 

Plus where are these 6 points you claim we need going to come from?