Counterpoints

[pillred]

2 hours ago, BCFCGav said:

Anticipate a battering here but I’ll post my thoughts anyway. 
 

We should keep him. LM is going poorly - let’s have it right. We’ve lost to three teams with worse squads than us on the spin. Criticism is more than fair and us, as paying and long-suffering supporters, are qualified to give it.

But.

- These are not his players. They don’t suit his style. His one ‘big’ signing in his mould is injured (an ongoing issue here that long precedes LM). He will need the summer.

- The same idiots still own the club. The next appointment will also struggle - they struggle at appointing managers.

- He’s got over 3 years of contract left. So has his assistant. We’ve sorted our money issues, let’s not piss all that money away now.

- This will be the least popular one. We showed some signs of progress today. We nicked the ball high on about 4 occasions, that’s our best avenue of attack and we saw signs of it. I actually think we were the better team today. They scored one set piece, and their keeper had a solid game. Today was better, albeit against a low bar.

 

We’re safe this season. Some will say we’re not but we are. 9 points AND 9 places clear. 6 more points from 11 games will do it. 
 

The problems lie above his head, and until they’re gone, we will always fail at this level. No amount of chopping and changing managers will change that fact. And even if they do finally get it right and appoint a man to take us forward… we know they’ll sack him anyway. 
 

 

We are 6 points clear, and have you seen our upcoming fixtures?

[Jimbo76]

A few weeks ago, post West Ham, Forest and Southampton, this forum read very differently.

I'm getting concerned at the performances under Manning as well but to change now brings no guarantees. Football history has many managerial success stories that didn't go well in their first season. 

As I say, I'm concerned, but sometimes sticking with a manager and giving them time, brings rewards. Teams go through bad runs. Not sure you can sack the manager every time you have a bad run.

Concerned? Yes. Bored? Hell yeah!

Keen to change those above Manning ? Definitely.

Totally given up on Manning? Not at the moment.

[ChippenhamRed]

2 hours ago, BCFCGav said:

Anticipate a battering here but I’ll post my thoughts anyway. 
 

We should keep him. LM is going poorly - let’s have it right. We’ve lost to three teams with worse squads than us on the spin. Criticism is more than fair and us, as paying and long-suffering supporters, are qualified to give it.

But.

- These are not his players. They don’t suit his style. His one ‘big’ signing in his mould is injured (an ongoing issue here that long precedes LM). He will need the summer.

- The same idiots still own the club. The next appointment will also struggle - they struggle at appointing managers.

- He’s got over 3 years of contract left. So has his assistant. We’ve sorted our money issues, let’s not piss all that money away now.

- This will be the least popular one. We showed some signs of progress today. We nicked the ball high on about 4 occasions, that’s our best avenue of attack and we saw signs of it. I actually think we were the better team today. They scored one set piece, and their keeper had a solid game. Today was better, albeit against a low bar.

 

We’re safe this season. Some will say we’re not but we are. 9 points AND 9 places clear. 6 more points from 11 games will do it. 
 

The problems lie above his head, and until they’re gone, we will always fail at this level. No amount of chopping and changing managers will change that fact. And even if they do finally get it right and appoint a man to take us forward… we know they’ll sack him anyway. 
 

 

Nah. I’ve been making similar arguments to this for a while but today was a turning point for me. It was simply unacceptable. He’s also incredibly uninspiring. He needs to go.

[ChippenhamRed]

1 minute ago, pillred said:

We are 6 points clear, and have you seen our upcoming fixtures?

Yes but there are 11 teams below us and 9 of them would need to make up that gap. I think we’ll be fine.

[Dr Balls]

5 minutes ago, italian dave said:

Those problems can be overcome though. And as @Spike has said, the Sporting Quarter will - alongside the stadium - really embed the physical embodiment of his legacy.

It would but it’s looking a number of years off now, because of the delays at Ashton Vale. And anyway who wants to buy a League 1 men’s football team and a women’s team in the 2nd tier, irrespective of the stadium and surroundings? Seriously no one is going to pay SL’s asking price unless the men’s team make it to the Premier League and that looks further away than ever.

Edited March 2 by Dr Balls

[BrizzleRed]

49 minutes ago, Mendip City said:

He’s bought a dud, is well outside the warranty period, he’s maintained it but not improved it but wants his money back… he’s either left in this limbo position or going to have to take a financial hit. 

My biggest hope is that Lansdown realises he’s going to have to take a loss to offload this Bristol Sport monster he’s created.

Just sacking Manning clearly won’t solve our problems now.  We’ve become so stale that we need a massive reset to reinvigorate the club, players and supporters alike.  I really think new ownership is the only way we’ll get that.

Let’s be honest, how many fans are still believing that SL has the ability, know-how or enthusiasm to take this club anywhere other than downwards?

Please find a buyer Steve and give yourself a far less stressful retirement and for us, something more positive to pin our hopes on!

[1960maaan]

When Lansdown said about LJ , he's here until I say otherwise , may not be a direct quote but near enough. I gave up on wanting Johnson out and looked to what he was doing. 
Now feels worse. He has taken 3 of our best, most threatening players and has played them so they carry no threat at all.
Knight looked a brilliant signing in midfield, he plays him as a 10 and he is nowhere near the same player.
Sykes was one of our best players for a good chunk of the  last 2 years as a right sided AMF, play him on the left.
Conway was probably a £10-£12M player, now he rotates with Wells and rarely looks like scoring.
If he was a good coach he would get the best out of the squad, he has taken us backward and has turned good players into average squad players. 
I've watched all sorts of rubbish over the time I've been following City, but this has really hit hard.  Honestly, if I feel like I do now when the renewals are due, I don't know if I will buy a season ticket. 
Sykes looked lost on the left, but Manning never once tried to switch it, then towards the ned the U21 star and LM's fav ended up on the same wing FFS. I said during the week we were a rudderless ship , I think it's worse as we have no leader worth his salt. 
The worst thing about it is we are still talking about going to WBA , maybe if we didn't think things like that they may be forced into tough but good decisions. 

[sunningdalered]

2 hours ago, Harry said:

I’ll tell you where I am. 
 

Today was the worst performance under Manning so far. 
 

I am someone who originally said on here that I didn’t think Manning’s style would suit our players. 
However, once he was appointed I was happy to see what he could do. 
 

I felt in the early games I did see some signs of progress. He did actually manage to get our players to start to keep the ball much better. Ok, a lot of it was quite slow possession, but that’s where the ‘fit’ comes in. Our players and his style do not fit. 
So whilst they showed some signs of being able to keep the ball a bit better, it was never consistent enough nor anywhere near quick or slick enough. But the early signs were one of “ok, he can at least get them to pass it to each other which I didn’t think was possible”. 
 

The other slight positives I saw in some of the early games was the ability for us to run in behind full backs, and into channels, where ‘sometimes’ someone had the ounce of ability to find the right pass. 
I felt a little positive on some of those early games that he was a) managing to get us to keep the ball better and b) managing to get some decent movement up front. 
 

But…… and it’s a big BUT. It’s REALLY REALLY tailed off. To the point where I am now majorly concerned. 
 

Those early signs were enough for me to say “ok, let’s give him a bit of time and see what he can do”. 
But the last 2 months have been pretty dreadful. 
The only game where I felt really positive was after Watford away. I thought in that game we had found a formula. We were good both on the ball and off of it and we looked really well organised. 
Ever since then I haven’t seen any positives. And things have been sliding backwards quite badly. 
 

To the opening poster - whilst I can understand your points to a certain extent, I actually think the writing is on the wall now and I can’t personally put any faith in Manning any more. 
 

There are a few things to note :

1) We spent 2.5 years signing players who were ‘runners’ ‘counter attackers’ ‘workers’. We then approach and poach a manager (who didn’t apply for the role) who clearly has a CV which displays a totally different philosophy. 
Why?? 
 

2) We have a good stadium and a good base to build from but we continually employ people who are not ‘best in class’. I am still highly critical of our recruitment set up. Even more so now - if we are targeting a manager with a clear body of work that doesn’t align in any way possible with the players we’ve spent 3 years signing. 
If Mannings head has to roll then so does Tinnion’s head and Gilhespy’s head 
 

3) Prior to this week I was still sitting in the camp that says “ok, let’s give him time” but the recent trend has been very much downward and today for me was a low. Very very poor in all aspects both on the pitch and tactically. 
The press conference on Thursday was very telling for me. Manning openly admitted that this squad were not capable of playing his way. 
Mainly, that is a huge fault of Tinnion. But for me Manning shouldn’t have said this and shouldn’t be looking to adapt. He really should stick to his principals. 
I don’t think he should adapt to this group. He should double down on his beliefs. After all; that was why we poached him! 
That for me showed a weak mentality. I’d prefer him to stick to his guns, but he wilted in front of my eyes. 
And then with a performance like today, that was now the final straw for me. 

Always interested in your comments. 

A few weeks back you commented that to achieve anything we needed to develop beyond being a 100% counter attacking team, and being comfortable with a higher level of possession was the way to achieve that, which I agreed with. Now things seem to have become more polarised, and people believe that we can only be one or the other - including the manager! 

Sadly, it seems that LM isn't the man to help us find the happy medium. 

[Davefevs]

15 minutes ago, Jimbo76 said:

A few weeks ago, post West Ham, Forest and Southampton, this forum read very differently.

I'm getting concerned at the performances under Manning as well but to change now brings no guarantees. Football history has many managerial success stories that didn't go well in their first season. 

As I say, I'm concerned, but sometimes sticking with a manager and giving them time, brings rewards. Teams go through bad runs. Not sure you can sack the manager every time you have a bad run.

Concerned? Yes. Bored? Hell yeah!

Keen to change those above Manning ? Definitely.

Totally given up on Manning? Not at the moment.

It did, but I did heed warning that it was ok beating Southampton and Boro, but our season would be determined more by games against the sides like we’ve just lost 3 on the trot to.

Its just really disappointing.

[italian dave]

9 minutes ago, Dr Balls said:

It would but it’s looking a number of years off now, because of the delays at Ashton Vale. And anyway who wants to buy a League 1 men’s football team and a women’s team in the 2nd tier, irrespective of the stadium and surroundings? Seriously no one is going to pay SL’s asking price unless the men’s team make it to the Premier League and that looks further away than ever.

Oh, I agree on the dilemma, complications etc over the sale.

And in the end, and when he finds who he feels is the right person, I’d guess there will be a compromise and a deal to be done.

But ultimately, and in the longer term, he’ll be remembered by the bricks and mortar housing that array of sporting endeavour in Bristol - regardless of where specific clubs happen to be in their cycle at any one time, 

[Pippintogg]

2 hours ago, BCFCGav said:

Anticipate a battering here but I’ll post my thoughts anyway. 
 

We should keep him. LM is going poorly - let’s have it right. We’ve lost to three teams with worse squads than us on the spin. Criticism is more than fair and us, as paying and long-suffering supporters, are qualified to give it.

But.

- These are not his players. They don’t suit his style. His one ‘big’ signing in his mould is injured (an ongoing issue here that long precedes LM). He will need the summer.

- The same idiots still own the club. The next appointment will also struggle - they struggle at appointing managers.

- He’s got over 3 years of contract left. So has his assistant. We’ve sorted our money issues, let’s not piss all that money away now.

- This will be the least popular one. We showed some signs of progress today. We nicked the ball high on about 4 occasions, that’s our best avenue of attack and we saw signs of it. I actually think we were the better team today. They scored one set piece, and their keeper had a solid game. Today was better, albeit against a low bar.

 

We’re safe this season. Some will say we’re not but we are. 9 points AND 9 places clear. 6 more points from 11 games will do it. 
 

The problems lie above his head, and until they’re gone, we will always fail at this level. No amount of chopping and changing managers will change that fact. And even if they do finally get it right and appoint a man to take us forward… we know they’ll sack him anyway. 
 

 

Sorry don't agree. Yes problems are above his head, but he's also the problem. He had an interview told them what they wanted to hear and has failed to deliver. A good coach can make things work with what they've got. I did it as coach with BCWFC in the 90's when I made the team hard to beat, saved them from relegation and to the semifinal of the Glos cup. I didn't try to play a style that didn't fit the players. It was identifying strengths of what I had in the squad then playing to it. I remember watching Cardiff play and knew how to nullify their threat by playing someone basically in the centre circle to break up everything that came through the middle and forced them wide. We drew 2 - 2 and turned the corner. Manning has no other plans, which is why we struggle. The football is boring, predictable and  easy to nullify. People go on about the FA cup  but we had no shots on target at home to Forest. In a one-off cup game! Our run-in is very tough and could quite easily slip into the bottom 3.

[italian dave]

7 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

It did, but I did heed warning that it was ok beating Southampton and Boro, but our season would be determined more by games against the sides like we’ve just lost 3 on the trot to.

Its just really disappointing.

So, wins against WBA, Ipswich and Leicester, interspersed with defeat to Blackburn, Plymouth and Huddersfield coming up…..With a draw at Sunderland for good measure?!!!

[REDOXO]

30 minutes ago, pillred said:

We are 6 points clear, and have you seen our upcoming fixtures?

Exactly. What are some thinking. There is always one club that falls like a stone and right now it’s us!

[The Original OTIB]

3 hours ago, BCFCGav said:

Anticipate a battering here but I’ll post my thoughts anyway. 
 

We should keep him. LM is going poorly - let’s have it right. We’ve lost to three teams with worse squads than us on the spin. Criticism is more than fair and us, as paying and long-suffering supporters, are qualified to give it.

But.

- These are not his players. They don’t suit his style. His one ‘big’ signing in his mould is injured (an ongoing issue here that long precedes LM). He will need the summer.

- The same idiots still own the club. The next appointment will also struggle - they struggle at appointing managers.

- He’s got over 3 years of contract left. So has his assistant. We’ve sorted our money issues, let’s not piss all that money away now.

- This will be the least popular one. We showed some signs of progress today. We nicked the ball high on about 4 occasions, that’s our best avenue of attack and we saw signs of it. I actually think we were the better team today. They scored one set piece, and their keeper had a solid game. Today was better, albeit against a low bar.

 

We’re safe this season. Some will say we’re not but we are. 9 points AND 9 places clear. 6 more points from 11 games will do it. 
 

The problems lie above his head, and until they’re gone, we will always fail at this level. No amount of chopping and changing managers will change that fact. And even if they do finally get it right and appoint a man to take us forward… we know they’ll sack him anyway. 
 

 

How do we set up against Ipswich and who plays (if available)? What should the plan be based on the last 3 games and what have they told us?

[Dr Balls]

4 minutes ago, The Original OTIB said:

How do we set up against Ipswich and who plays (if available)? What should the plan be based on the last 3 games and what have they told us?

That we need to defend well, not look to have too much possession, and play quickly on the counter attack. Oh and if we are losing not be scared to play 2 proper strikers upfront so that they can play off each other. In other words play like we did under Nige, especially away from home.

[The Original OTIB]

1 minute ago, Dr Balls said:

That we need to defend well, not look to have too much possession, and play quickly on the counter attack. Oh and if we are losing not be scared to play 2 proper strikers upfront so that they can play off each other. In other words play like we did under Nige, especially away from home.

Was for BCFCGav, but thanks anyway!

[Dr Balls]

Just now, The Original OTIB said:

Was for BCFCGav, but thanks anyway!

Unfortunatelly I don’t think that Manning will do as I suggest. It will be all about the process, irrespective of the fact that his process isn’t working.

[The Original OTIB]

4 minutes ago, Dr Balls said:

Unfortunatelly I don’t think that Manning will do as I suggest. It will be all about the process, irrespective of the fact that his process isn’t working.

In better news, we will have less of the ball and will have to play on the break, to a certain extent. As I said elsewhere, this team of ours really has to get the first goal to have any sort of chance at the moment.

[pillred]

30 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

Exactly. What are some thinking. There is always one club that falls like a stone and right now it’s us!

I spent most of the afternoon hoping Millwall, QPR, and Stoke would do us a favour and lose, I should have known better after all these years. 

Edited March 2 by pillred

[cidered abroad]

I just listened to his post match interview. Blaming it all on the players not doing what he wants.

What a sad person

[1960maaan]

17 minutes ago, Dr Balls said:

Unfortunatelly I don’t think that Manning will do as I suggest. It will be all about the process, irrespective of the fact that his process isn’t working.

Manning will do what he does, he has his plan and if it doesn't work it's because the players didn't follow it properly. 
At Wednesday we lost because they didn't follow the plan, but we scored because of coaching . 
Always the reason we do well, never the reason we do badly. That's not the sort of coach I want here TBH.

[GrahamC]

2 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

I just listened to his post match interview. Blaming it all on the players not doing what he wants.

What a sad person

He’s under pressure.

I doubt very much we want to sack him but we have 3 games coming up around Swansea that it is highly likely we’ll lose.

Today we looked like we didn’t have a plan & players who however limited were giving their all under NP were arguing with each other.

He needs a result & him stating the blindingly obvious (we struggle to score goals, no shit) doesn’t exactly add anything to the conversation.

[The Original OTIB]

15 minutes ago, The Original OTIB said:

In better news, we will have less of the ball and will have to play on the break, to a certain extent. As I said elsewhere, this team of ours really has to get the first goal to have any sort of chance at the moment.

Actually, scratch the bit about scoring first, I just remembered my last mid week trip to Portman Road:

https://www.11v11.com/matches/ipswich-town-v-bristol-city-10-december-2008-283712/

Stern John, another player we turned from from footballing don into footballing donkey.

[Rocking Red Cyril]

As much as it seems evident the team have made no progression under LM. He was bought in to play the football that BT and crayon boy want us to play. The fact that the squad does not seem able to play this way and LM saying this it's bit scarry. The supporters are seeing it so do BT and crayon not see it? Because it's their fault. LM  is their man. Are they brave enough to accept their mistake and sack and get a new coach/manger. Or sell out current squad and buy all new? That's a lot of daddy's money. And does SL really sit back giving the two numpty's free run of the football ? This is getting very scary cause no one in charge seems to know anything about running a football team. I worry about wishes for a new owner because I not like the ideal of being owned by a foreign company. I guess we as supporters have no say and are not listened too by those who run the club.

So just have to sit back watch the shit show until some one decides which is the correct way to go.

Anyway guess the admission have to be reduced by 50% in Div. 1 next season 

COYR

[Show Me The Money!]

I’m not usually a manager basher after a game and this is something I’ve been thinking about for a while and what concerns me with Manning is the way he talks in his press conferences and if that’s the way he talks to players he doesn’t come across as aspiring at all.

 For me being a good manager is more than just having a good coaching methodology. Character and passion to inspire your players to want to run through walls and work to become better players and a better team. A tough comparison but you look at the truly successful managers like Klopp, Guardiola and Alex Ferguson, they all ooze passion and charisma. Manning just doesn’t seem to offer any that the fans can see and bond with that players also would. Nige obviously isn’t in the same league as the names I’ve mentioned, but I believe his charisma, personality and attitude had turned around a club that was slowly heading back to league 1.

I so want a manager character to go along with his or her (why not) coaching know how.