Counterpoints

[Bat Fastard]

The players seem to have managed to absorb something from Manningball. They can pass across the back and the players must be on a bonus for possession figures because we keep passing the ball to the back line where we can show our greatest ability. Sadly, the coach and players don't seem to have much idea about what should come next. The passing across the backline does not seem to pull defenders out of position but simply lets the opposition defence get into a nice tight set up  so that we find virtually no space to create really decent chances.  Manning confirms this by playing a lone striker! He does not seem to expect us to score goals. Even when chasing the game we spend too much of the dwindling time on the clock passing back and across the back line.  If the ball spent more time in and around the opposition goal area, chances would appear more often.  Manningball is poor to watch and this has nothing to do with the owner or technical director other than the fact that they should have kept Nige and let Manning stay in League one, where he seems to belong.  I have the spooky old feeling that the rest of the season may be very long!

[Capman]

1 minute ago, italian dave said:

Owners don’t just “go”. Get real. Unpalatable as that may be. 

Jon does not ‘own’ the club Steve does. It is for Steve to decide what he wants to do I agree. If not upsetting Jon is more important to Steve than the success of the club then he will leave Jon in place and allow him to trash the Lansdown legacy. 
But here is the thing, Jon can go as Chairman and Steve still own the club. If the Lansdown’s value their legacy they need to recognise that JL is not the man to lead the club forward. Jon can easily step aside, citing other business interests, appoint a new chairman, without the owners having to sell. But leaving JL in charge will not, in my view, change the narrative. The club need someone else to lead them out of this mess. If Steve values his investment now is the moment to embrace that reality. 

[BCFCGav]

8 minutes ago, South Bristol Red said:

As things stand it is 6 points, could be much closer by the end of this coming week. 

Plus where are these 6 points you claim we need going to come from?

If we don’t get 6 more points this season I’ll apply for Welsh citizenship. Our three losses on the spin were all by one goal, on another day we score a goal off Nahki’s arse or the opposition miss a sitter and it’s 3 points. Those games will come before the seasons end. We’ll be fine. 

[italian dave]

24 minutes ago, Barrs Court Red said:

He’s not an owner? 

You know what I mean

[Barrs Court Red]

1 minute ago, italian dave said:

You know what I mean

daddy has taken him out of the firing line before - so there is precedent 

[Atyeo's lift]

Not getting relegated? It probably won't last but at the moment QPR, Birmingham, Millwall, Stoke and Swansea are all winning

[italian dave]

25 minutes ago, Capman said:

Jon does not ‘own’ the club Steve does. It is for Steve to decide what he wants to do I agree. If not upsetting Jon is more important to Steve than the success of the club then he will leave Jon in place and allow him to trash the Lansdown legacy. 
But here is the thing, Jon can go as Chairman and Steve still own the club. If the Lansdown’s value their legacy they need to recognise that JL is not the man to lead the club forward. Jon can easily step aside, citing other business interests, appoint a new chairman, without the owners having to sell. But leaving JL in charge will not, in my view, change the narrative. The club need someone else to lead them out of this mess. If Steve values his investment now is the moment to embrace that reality. 

 

6 minutes ago, Barrs Court Red said:

daddy has taken him out of the firing line before - so there is precedent 

Yes, fair points. And my post wasn’t intended to be flippant; just that when we’re talking about owner and/or owner’s family the situations and the connotations are a lot different. And just lumping head coach, manager, CEO, announcer or whatever all in the same pot as JL - as others are doing elsewhere - isn’t realistic.

With any of those others you cite the fact that they’re not good enough, that relationships have broken down, whatever. It’s a lot harder to do that with your own son.

And SLs track record is to generally show patience; I’m just not sure that three consecutive defeats will alter that.

I’m not even convinced, to be honest, that City are SLs number one interest now anyway. I think he sees his legacy as being more about Bristol Sport and the Sporting Quarter - albeit BC are a fundamental part of that.

You may be right. Who knows! But who takes his place? 

[JP Hampton]

1 hour ago, Harry said:

I’ll tell you where I am. 
 

Today was the worst performance under Manning so far. 
 

I am someone who originally said on here that I didn’t think Manning’s style would suit our players. 
However, once he was appointed I was happy to see what he could do. 
 

I felt in the early games I did see some signs of progress. He did actually manage to get our players to start to keep the ball much better. Ok, a lot of it was quite slow possession, but that’s where the ‘fit’ comes in. Our players and his style do not fit. 
So whilst they showed some signs of being able to keep the ball a bit better, it was never consistent enough nor anywhere near quick or slick enough. But the early signs were one of “ok, he can at least get them to pass it to each other which I didn’t think was possible”. 
 

The other slight positives I saw in some of the early games was the ability for us to run in behind full backs, and into channels, where ‘sometimes’ someone had the ounce of ability to find the right pass. 
I felt a little positive on some of those early games that he was a) managing to get us to keep the ball better and b) managing to get some decent movement up front. 
 

But…… and it’s a big BUT. It’s REALLY REALLY tailed off. To the point where I am now majorly concerned. 
 

Those early signs were enough for me to say “ok, let’s give him a bit of time and see what he can do”. 
But the last 2 months have been pretty dreadful. 
The only game where I felt really positive was after Watford away. I thought in that game we had found a formula. We were good both on the ball and off of it and we looked really well organised. 
Ever since then I haven’t seen any positives. And things have been sliding backwards quite badly. 
 

To the opening poster - whilst I can understand your points to a certain extent, I actually think the writing is on the wall now and I can’t personally put any faith in Manning any more. 
 

There are a few things to note :

1) We spent 2.5 years signing players who were ‘runners’ ‘counter attackers’ ‘workers’. We then approach and poach a manager (who didn’t apply for the role) who clearly has a CV which displays a totally different philosophy. 
Why?? 
 

2) We have a good stadium and a good base to build from but we continually employ people who are not ‘best in class’. I am still highly critical of our recruitment set up. Even more so now - if we are targeting a manager with a clear body of work that doesn’t align in any way possible with the players we’ve spent 3 years signing. 
If Mannings head has to roll then so does Tinnion’s head and Gilhespy’s head 
 

3) Prior to this week I was still sitting in the camp that says “ok, let’s give him time” but the recent trend has been very much downward and today for me was a low. Very very poor in all aspects both on the pitch and tactically. 
The press conference on Thursday was very telling for me. Manning openly admitted that this squad were not capable of playing his way. 
Mainly, that is a huge fault of Tinnion. But for me Manning shouldn’t have said this and shouldn’t be looking to adapt. He really should stick to his principals. 
I don’t think he should adapt to this group. He should double down on his beliefs. After all; that was why we poached him! 
That for me showed a weak mentality. I’d prefer him to stick to his guns, but he wilted in front of my eyes. 
And then with a performance like today, that was now the final straw for me. 

Agree. You have to at least stick to your principles whatever they may be. How can we expect players or fans to believe in him as the way forward. 
 

I have no proof of course but the way the players played today, reminds me of so many games, just before we’ve got rid of a manager. Something tells me he won’t be going anywhere though. 

Edited March 2 by JP Hampton

[Swede]

1 hour ago, BCFCGav said:

Anticipate a battering here but I’ll post my thoughts anyway. 
 

We should keep him. LM is going poorly - let’s have it right. We’ve lost to three teams with worse squads than us on the spin. Criticism is more than fair and us, as paying and long-suffering supporters, are qualified to give it.

But.

- These are not his players. They don’t suit his style. His one ‘big’ signing in his mould is injured (an ongoing issue here that long precedes LM). He will need the summer.

- The same idiots still own the club. The next appointment will also struggle - they struggle at appointing managers.

- He’s got over 3 years of contract left. So has his assistant. We’ve sorted our money issues, let’s not piss all that money away now.

- This will be the least popular one. We showed some signs of progress today. We nicked the ball high on about 4 occasions, that’s our best avenue of attack and we saw signs of it. I actually think we were the better team today. They scored one set piece, and their keeper had a solid game. Today was better, albeit against a low bar.

 

We’re safe this season. Some will say we’re not but we are. 9 points AND 9 places clear. 6 more points from 11 games will do it. 
 

The problems lie above his head, and until they’re gone, we will always fail at this level. No amount of chopping and changing managers will change that fact. And even if they do finally get it right and appoint a man to take us forward… we know they’ll sack him anyway. 
 

 

Not his players!!!! Can't get much better than Andy King and Matty James with Premier League experience.

What you're not saying is that he's changed our style MID SEASON from a counter attacking set up to a possession based team or trying to. There's where the folly is. He has to work with what he's got. IF he was any good he would be able to implement his style with what he has at his disposal. More worryingly the problem is indeed above him. We have a League 1 set up now.

[David Brent]

48 minutes ago, BCFCGav said:

..on another day we score a goal off Nahki’s arse or the opposition miss a sitter and it’s 3 points. Those games will come before the seasons end. We’ll be fine. 

Is that really what we’ve become? What this season has come to..

[BCFCGav]

2 minutes ago, Swede said:

Not his players!!!! Can't get much better than Andy King and Matty James with Premier League experience.

What you're not saying is that he's changed our style MID SEASON from a counter attacking set up to a possession based team or trying to. There's where the folly is. He has to work with what he's got. IF he was any good he would be able to implement his style with what he has at his disposal. More worryingly the problem is indeed above him. We have a League 1 set up now.

I agree he should be more adaptable with playing style, I wonder if now the wolves are (a bit) at our door he will. But he was always going to try to play his way, and that’s why he was a bad appointment, his way isn’t this squads way. Our board are thick. But he’s here now. We should let him have a fair crack of the whip, not his fault the board are muppets. 

[BCFCGav]

1 minute ago, David Brent said:

Is that really what we’ve become? What this season has come to..

Sadly, yes mate. The Lansclowns shot this season in the face in October. I do not back any of their decisions. I’m just thinking damage control. 

[Back of the Dolman]

2 hours ago, BCFCGav said:

Anticipate a battering here but I’ll post my thoughts anyway. 
 

We should keep him. LM is going poorly - let’s have it right. We’ve lost to three teams with worse squads than us on the spin. Criticism is more than fair and us, as paying and long-suffering supporters, are qualified to give it.

But.

- These are not his players. They don’t suit his style. His one ‘big’ signing in his mould is injured (an ongoing issue here that long precedes LM). He will need the summer.

- The same idiots still own the club. The next appointment will also struggle - they struggle at appointing managers.

- He’s got over 3 years of contract left. So has his assistant. We’ve sorted our money issues, let’s not piss all that money away now.

- This will be the least popular one. We showed some signs of progress today. We nicked the ball high on about 4 occasions, that’s our best avenue of attack and we saw signs of it. I actually think we were the better team today. They scored one set piece, and their keeper had a solid game. Today was better, albeit against a low bar.

 

We’re safe this season. Some will say we’re not but we are. 9 points AND 9 places clear. 6 more points from 11 games will do it. 
 

The problems lie above his head, and until they’re gone, we will always fail at this level. No amount of chopping and changing managers will change that fact. And even if they do finally get it right and appoint a man to take us forward… we know they’ll sack him anyway. 
 

 

Got to respond to some of your points I’m afraid.

- you’re right they aren’t his players but if he’s such a progressive coach then don’t try to make them play a style that doesn’t suit them !

He was already on the back foot with fans because of the way NP was dismissed(not LMs fault) but he should of just built on what we had and if they can’t play his style then wait until he can change things at the end of the season. 
His one big signing  was unlikely to stay long term if Burnley wanted 5M so all we would have been doing was keeping him sharp for Burnley next season or putting him in the shop window for them.

- I’m not so sure we are safe this season, the team is broken and I don’t see us having the fight that the teams below us have.

Edited March 2 by Back of the Dolman

[Dr Balls]

20 minutes ago, italian dave said:

 

Yes, fair points. And my post wasn’t intended to be flippant; just that when we’re talking about owner and/or owner’s family the situations and the connotations are a lot different. And just lumping head coach, manager, CEO, announcer or whatever all in the same pot as JL - as others are doing elsewhere - isn’t realistic.

With any of those others you cite the fact that they’re not good enough, that relationships have broken down, whatever. It’s a lot harder to do that with your own son.

And SLs track record is to generally show patience; I’m just not sure that three consecutive defeats will alter that.

I’m not even convinced, to be honest, that City are SLs number one interest now anyway. I think he sees his legacy as being more about Bristol Sport and the Sporting Quarter - albeit BC are a fundamental part of that.

You may be right. Who knows! But who takes his place? 

SL has pretty much zero interest in Bristol City now and only slightly more in the rugby. He actually wants out without losing an enormous amount of money. His major interest now is the environmental and ecological projects in Southern Africa (Botswana and Mozambique). Bristol City men’s and women’s teams are just a headache he probably feels he could do without.

[Spike]

I'll bite... 

1 hour ago, BCFCGav said:

We should keep him. LM is going poorly - let’s have it right. We’ve lost to three teams with worse squads than us on the spin. Criticism is more than fair and us, as paying and long-suffering supporters, are qualified to give it.

Agreed

1 hour ago, BCFCGav said:

- These are not his players. They don’t suit his style. His one ‘big’ signing in his mould is injured (an ongoing issue here that long precedes LM). He will need the summer.

Unlike previous managers he was not hired for a rebuild, he was hired because we had a "competitive squad" who Jon said were "Top 6".

Now, putting aside the stupidity of the top 6 comment it still doesn't change that Manning took on the role, replacing a very knowledgeable and capable man who had got the team playing with identify and a bite to them. We're they top 6... probably not, however, they were very much competitive and the job role of Manning was to take on a competitive squad and make them compete. 

There was no mention of a rebuild and when it comes to "his players" out was Manning who wanted to buy Mehmeti for Oxford before we got him. He is a fan of Mehmeti and yet he plays a system whereby Mehmeti is nullified and arguably looks worse than he did when he struggled under Pearson. 

The simple fact is that in the last 3 games the players are not the issue at all, it is Mannings inability to see the shortcoming of his tactics and why they are failing. What's worse is that he could sign a whole squad of his "own players" but it won't change that he can't see where we are being tactically outplayed. 

1 hour ago, BCFCGav said:

- The same idiots still own the club. The next appointment will also struggle - they struggle at appointing managers.

Yes, yes they do and yes they will still be here and they will still be idiots but that doesn't mean we should stick with a tactically inept manager/coach who can't even identify what's wrong so he just keeps blamimg the players for not playing well enough. 

As much as I hate the ownership I will say this, they appointed Pearson. I feel that appointment was very much by trying to deliver something the fans wanted, an experienced, logical manager and so I will take a shot at the manager appointment lottery at the chance of having a Pearson-like manager than sticking with a guy who has one idea and would blame his own players over admitting he doesn't have what it takes. 

1 hour ago, BCFCGav said:

- He’s got over 3 years of contract left. So has his assistant. We’ve sorted our money issues, let’s not piss all that money away now.

You've just said he doesn't have his players, how do you think he's going to get them if it's not by spending money? 

Surely taking that hit is better financially than watching the value of the squad slowly deplete with awful football and spending on more players that are his?

If anything we could stick with him and get relegated next season and then we'd be on one of our worst financial situations in the last decade. 

1 hour ago, BCFCGav said:

- This will be the least popular one. We showed some signs of progress today. We nicked the ball high on about 4 occasions, that’s our best avenue of attack and we saw signs of it. I actually think we were the better team today. They scored one set piece, and their keeper had a solid game. Today was better, albeit against a low bar.

If you genuinely believe we showed signs of progress today I'm going to assume you watched the wrong team? 

We've been playing the pace press to pick possession off of the opposition since Pearson implimented it. Manning has taken that pace press and added a dimension of doing a triggered pace press based on passes by the opposition, it's not bad, but it's also not reliable in chance creation. Yes we created chances using it today, but we also conceded multiple chances through Cardiff doing the same to us which meant the game was very much a 50/50 crap shoot on who would capitalise on it first. That is not a reliable base for chance creation and relies heavily on the opposition making multiple mistakes. 

We were the better team for patches, but as a whole Cardiff neutralised all of our build up play by simply forcing us wide and pinning us in, then we'd be forced back where they could trigger a press to try and make us lose possession in a dangerous position. 

This is also how QPR and Wednesday set up and took advantage of Manning refusing to adapt to it. We created next to nothing in these situations and that's purely down to how Manning has is set up with large gaps between players so we can't generate a fast counter if we do win the ball as we don't have any quick passing options anywhere but on the wings. We're always spread far too wide across the pitch with no good inside options despite playing with 3 in the middle. 

It genuinely concerns me how little some people last attention to these details because they are what cause many of the player complaints such as "Mehmeti is crap" or "our attackers are rubbish". They're not and Mehmeti could be a hell of a player in the right system but whilst we continue to force the wings and have no ability to go through the middle the opposition will continue to invite us wide, pin us there and dispossess and nullify our attacking players.

The gameplan is why we're seeing so many players who shone under Pearson look like shadows of their former selves. Pearson set up to get the best out of players individual strengths in a team manner, Manning sets up a team gameplan and tries to force the players to play roles they're not suited in. Imagine having a player like DeBruyne and telling him to keep his passing simple... it may suit the tactics you want to play but imagine how much talent you're wasting. 

1 hour ago, BCFCGav said:

We’re safe this season. Some will say we’re not but we are. 9 points AND 9 places clear. 6 more points from 11 games will do it. 

We may be safe, but this is the Charmpionship, results are never what you expect and finishing on a high is far more appealing to players coming in than seeing a club who dropped from a competitive position at one point to a lower half position under a new manager. We may not have to worry about relegation now but if we keep Manning and he's to stubborn to change his ways then we could find ourselves down there next season with the board sacking him and needing to replace with us in a far worse position. 

1 hour ago, BCFCGav said:

The problems lie above his head, and until they’re gone, we will always fail at this level. No amount of chopping and changing managers will change that fact. And even if they do finally get it right and appoint a man to take us forward… we know they’ll sack him anyway. 

Ignoring one problem because there is another problem isn't how you solve problems, it's how they escalate and become a real situation. 

We can't just accept Manning, that's why this club is where it is, accepting mediocrity. 

I'm tired of this thing the club does of hiring 'up and coming', I want another Pearson, I want a manager who isn't a one trick pony, I want experience and tactical knowledge, not this modern coaching but the numbers bullshit we've got now. 

[Mendip City]

2 minutes ago, Dr Balls said:

SL has pretty much zero interest in Bristol City now and only slightly more in the rugby. He actually wants out without losing an enormous amount of money. His major interest now is the environmental and ecological projects in Southern Africa (Botswana and Mozambique). Bristol City men’s and women’s teams are just a headache he probably feels he could do without.

He’s bought a dud, is well outside the warranty period, he’s maintained it but not improved it but wants his money back… he’s either left in this limbo position or going to have to take a financial hit. 

[Back of the Dolman]

1 hour ago, BCFCGav said:

Not blameless, but massively diminished responsibility. Look higher. They don’t know anything about football and it shows.

But he’s the one coaching these players, changing style and taking the edge off the team with his lack of charisma and emotion.

those above him are culpable clearly but his responsibility is not massively diminished in my eyes 

[cidered abroad]

1 hour ago, BCFCGav said:

Anticipate a battering here but I’ll post my thoughts anyway. 
 

We should keep him. LM is going poorly - let’s have it right. We’ve lost to three teams with worse squads than us on the spin. Criticism is more than fair and us, as paying and long-suffering supporters, are qualified to give it.

But.

- These are not his players. They don’t suit his style. His one ‘big’ signing in his mould is injured (an ongoing issue here that long precedes LM). He will need the summer.

- The same idiots still own the club. The next appointment will also struggle - they struggle at appointing managers.

- He’s got over 3 years of contract left. So has his assistant. We’ve sorted our money issues, let’s not piss all that money away now.

- This will be the least popular one. We showed some signs of progress today. We nicked the ball high on about 4 occasions, that’s our best avenue of attack and we saw signs of it. I actually think we were the better team today. They scored one set piece, and their keeper had a solid game. Today was better, albeit against a low bar.

 

We’re safe this season. Some will say we’re not but we are. 9 points AND 9 places clear. 6 more points from 11 games will do it. 
 

The problems lie above his head, and until they’re gone, we will always fail at this level. No amount of chopping and changing managers will change that fact. And even if they do finally get it right and appoint a man to take us forward… we know they’ll sack him anyway. 
 

 

Six points away from bottom three! Safe?

Like hell we are not. I wouldn't gamble on us staying up.

Manning may be a useful coach but he's a lousy manager at this level. And can he take Tinnion when he leaves.

[Back of the Dolman]

1 hour ago, BCFCGav said:

If we don’t get 6 more points this season I’ll apply for Welsh citizenship. Our three losses on the spin were all by one goal, on another day we score a goal off Nahki’s arse or the opposition miss a sitter and it’s 3 points. Those games will come before the seasons end. We’ll be fine. 

So we need to rely on scoring lucky goals or the opposition missing sitters to put points on the board ?

you say on another day we’ll get this but it hasn’t happened on our recent match days so why should it be any different going forward?

You make your own luck and we’re doing nothing to get lucky 

[italian dave]

20 minutes ago, Dr Balls said:

SL has pretty much zero interest in Bristol City now and only slightly more in the rugby. He actually wants out without losing an enormous amount of money. His major interest now is the environmental and ecological projects in Southern Africa (Botswana and Mozambique). Bristol City men’s and women’s teams are just a headache he probably feels he could do without.

Don’t you think he still sees Bristol Sport as a legacy though? And have an interest in cementing that with the Sporting Quarter? 

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Bat Fastard said:

The players seem to have managed to absorb something from Manningball. They can pass across the back and the players must be on a bonus for possession figures because we keep passing the ball to the back line where we can show our greatest ability. Sadly, the coach and players don't seem to have much idea about what should come next. The passing across the backline does not seem to pull defenders out of position but simply lets the opposition defence get into a nice tight set up  so that we find virtually no space to create really decent chances.  Manning confirms this by playing a lone striker! He does not seem to expect us to score goals. Even when chasing the game we spend too much of the dwindling time on the clock passing back and across the back line.  If the ball spent more time in and around the opposition goal area, chances would appear more often.  Manningball is poor to watch and this has nothing to do with the owner or technical director other than the fact that they should have kept Nige and let Manning stay in League one, where he seems to belong.  I have the spooky old feeling that the rest of the season may be very long!

“As coaches we can get them to the attacking third…and then it’s down to them” (paraphrased from one or two recent LM comments).

Abdication, or what?

[BCFCGav]

Appreciate all the responses and some good counterpoints to my counterpoints raised! And no-one swore at me so I'm calling it a win

I really do think we’ll stay up whoever is in the dugout. I said 6 points will do it, it may be even fewer honestly. I appreciate 0 points from 9 makes it feel like we’ll never win again, we’ll find one or two. Maybe I’m wrong and he should go, and someone made a good point of it’s cheaper to change the manager than remould the squad in LM’s vision. 
 

But even though I think he’s the wrong appointment, I believe four months isn’t a fair crack of the whip. 
 

But hey, we all have our opinions and want the same thing. Onto Tuesday and, everything crossed, a point or three against Mark Ashton’s boys.

[Spike]

3 minutes ago, italian dave said:

Don’t you think he still sees Bristol Sport as a legacy though? And have an interest in cementing that with the Sporting Quarter? 

I think that Sporting quarter is his legacy, he gets that finished and up and then he can pass the Gate, look at the stadium and surroundings and think to himself "I did that". 

I do think he's still a City fan, I just think he knows all he has to offer is his financial strengths and that he'll not get us to the Premier League in his lifetime so he's looking to get out without losing too much and trying to move it on to someone he thinks cares. 

 

[Ivorguy]

1 minute ago, Spike said:

I think that Sporting quarter is his legacy, he gets that finished and up and then he can pass the Gate, look at the stadium and surroundings and think to himself "I did that". 

I do think he's still a City fan, I just think he knows all he has to offer is his financial strengths and that he'll not get us to the Premier League in his lifetime so he's looking to get out without losing too much and trying to move it on to someone he thinks cares. 

 

well he’s being blooming slow about it, ie something like a decade

[JP Hampton]

2 hours ago, BCFCGav said:

No it’s not. With these owners the kitchen will always be on fire. What’s the point in changing the head chef? 
 

They screwed up by sacking Pearson then appointed the wrong man. The next one will likely be wrong too. What’s the point in just restarting the cycle?

Yes, even if they get a good one they don’t back him!

[italian dave]

1 hour ago, Atyeo's lift said:

Not getting relegated? It probably won't last but at the moment QPR, Birmingham, Millwall, Stoke and Swansea are all winning

Still 13th. Even Middlesbrough failed get the point they needed to go above us!

Theres been a lot of mention of the fact that we’ve got games against Leicester, Ipswich and WBA coming up soon. But the other three of the next 6 are against the three teams just below Middlesbrough, currently 2, 4 and 5 points behind us. That will be interesting! 

[Dr Balls]

20 minutes ago, italian dave said:

Don’t you think he still sees Bristol Sport as a legacy though? And have an interest in cementing that with the Sporting Quarter? 

Maybe, but the way ETM are causing problems with the housing at Ashton Vale, which needs to be sorted to free up the funds for the Sporting Quarter, it wouldn’t surprise me if SL just feels like he has had enough. He’s in his mid to late 60s now and could probably do without all of the aggravation that comes with owning sports teams. Far easier to set up environmental and hotel projects that are not so unpredictable as football and don’t risk anywhere near so much money.

[Cheers Drive]

1 hour ago, Harry said:

I’ll tell you where I am. 
 

Today was the worst performance under Manning so far. 
 

I am someone who originally said on here that I didn’t think Manning’s style would suit our players. 
However, once he was appointed I was happy to see what he could do. 
 

I felt in the early games I did see some signs of progress. He did actually manage to get our players to start to keep the ball much better. Ok, a lot of it was quite slow possession, but that’s where the ‘fit’ comes in. Our players and his style do not fit. 
So whilst they showed some signs of being able to keep the ball a bit better, it was never consistent enough nor anywhere near quick or slick enough. But the early signs were one of “ok, he can at least get them to pass it to each other which I didn’t think was possible”. 
 

The other slight positives I saw in some of the early games was the ability for us to run in behind full backs, and into channels, where ‘sometimes’ someone had the ounce of ability to find the right pass. 
I felt a little positive on some of those early games that he was a) managing to get us to keep the ball better and b) managing to get some decent movement up front. 
 

But…… and it’s a big BUT. It’s REALLY REALLY tailed off. To the point where I am now majorly concerned. 
 

Those early signs were enough for me to say “ok, let’s give him a bit of time and see what he can do”. 
But the last 2 months have been pretty dreadful. 
The only game where I felt really positive was after Watford away. I thought in that game we had found a formula. We were good both on the ball and off of it and we looked really well organised. 
Ever since then I haven’t seen any positives. And things have been sliding backwards quite badly. 
 

To the opening poster - whilst I can understand your points to a certain extent, I actually think the writing is on the wall now and I can’t personally put any faith in Manning any more. 
 

There are a few things to note :

1) We spent 2.5 years signing players who were ‘runners’ ‘counter attackers’ ‘workers’. We then approach and poach a manager (who didn’t apply for the role) who clearly has a CV which displays a totally different philosophy. 
Why?? 
 

2) We have a good stadium and a good base to build from but we continually employ people who are not ‘best in class’. I am still highly critical of our recruitment set up. Even more so now - if we are targeting a manager with a clear body of work that doesn’t align in any way possible with the players we’ve spent 3 years signing. 
If Mannings head has to roll then so does Tinnion’s head and Gilhespy’s head 
 

3) Prior to this week I was still sitting in the camp that says “ok, let’s give him time” but the recent trend has been very much downward and today for me was a low. Very very poor in all aspects both on the pitch and tactically. 
The press conference on Thursday was very telling for me. Manning openly admitted that this squad were not capable of playing his way. 
Mainly, that is a huge fault of Tinnion. But for me Manning shouldn’t have said this and shouldn’t be looking to adapt. He really should stick to his principals. 
I don’t think he should adapt to this group. He should double down on his beliefs. After all; that was why we poached him! 
That for me showed a weak mentality. I’d prefer him to stick to his guns, but he wilted in front of my eyes. 
And then with a performance like today, that was now the final straw for me. 

I'm glad someone had the energy to write my exact sentiment. I have gone from positive, to he deserves time to looking down the table. Top that with today's post match interview and my confidence has gone. 6 points off the bottom three with seemingly a number below us finding results and form makes me nervous.

My biggest concern is we are shipping out the leaders in the summer and a team that appeared unified, competitive and now look anything but.

 

[italian dave]

29 minutes ago, BCFCGav said:

Appreciate all the responses and some good counterpoints to my counterpoints raised! And no-one swore at me so I'm calling it a win

I really do think we’ll stay up whoever is in the dugout. I said 6 points will do it, it may be even fewer honestly. I appreciate 0 points from 9 makes it feel like we’ll never win again, we’ll find one or two. Maybe I’m wrong and he should go, and someone made a good point of it’s cheaper to change the manager than remould the squad in LM’s vision. 
 

But even though I think he’s the wrong appointment, I believe four months isn’t a fair crack of the whip. 
 

But hey, we all have our opinions and want the same thing. Onto Tuesday and, everything crossed, a point or three against Mark Ashton’s boys.

And appreciate the thread Gav. It was a welcome relief from some of the knee jerk and utterly negative stuff elsewhere this afternoon! Why do some people look at a forum page that already has 3 or 4 “sack xxx” threads and feel the need to start another identical one? 

[italian dave]

12 minutes ago, Dr Balls said:

Maybe, but the way ETM are causing problems with the housing at Ashton Vale, which needs to be sorted to free up the funds for the Sporting Quarter, it wouldn’t surprise me if SL just feels like he has had enough. He’s in his mid to late 60s now and could probably do without all of the aggravation that comes with owning sports teams. Far easier to set up environmental and hotel projects that are not so unpredictable as football and don’t risk anywhere near so much money.

Those problems can be overcome though. And as @Spike has said, the Sporting Quarter will - alongside the stadium - really embed the physical embodiment of his legacy.