Manning’s poisoned chalice

[Davefevs]

26 minutes ago, AppyDAZE said:

Go back to just after Pearson was given his marching orders, how many on here were saying if it's Manning I'll be totally underwhelmed. Let's be fair, it was lots of us. And once again, as with when it was given to Holden, who are turning out to be proven right? It's not something I'm delighted about, this appointment was never going to work in a million years. It's yet another Lansdown **** up, and for me finally one too many. Please sell up and go.

I’ll happily go on the record and say I wasn’t one of them, because that’s not the way I work / rationalise.  I was happy to see how he went, and hopefully find he wasn’t a Russell Martin playing style theorist.

Bit it’s been quite easy to dissect his playing style.

He hasn’t been complete crap, but imho he’s not a good fit.  And I don’t think he ever will be unless HE CHANGES.  I don’t see that happening, and in some ways I get that.  But this is the championship.

[Harry]

Yes, the poisoned chalice is definitely a thing. 
And it’s for that reason that I have been a bit more defensive of Manning than others have been. I just felt that, as he was now in the door, let’s at least give the bloke a chance. 
The circumstances of his arrival and specifically the words from the hierarchy added huge amounts of pressure to his role. 
And whilst I was as shocked as all of us at the words that were coming from the bosses, I managed to put that to one side in my mind and just allow Manning time to see what he could do. 
I wanted to judge him on him, not on the circumstances. 
That was the main thrust of one of my threads about 3 games in (I think it was entitled separating the truth and the fiction or something like that). 
In that thread I was attempting to say exactly this - let’s not judge the circumstance, let’s judge him. 
 

And as I’ve said elsewhere yesterday, in the first 4-6 weeks I was able to see one or two things which I thought he was trying to adjust and it was looking ok in my mind. The culmination of this was the Watford away match where I thought was as good as I’ve seen us in years. 
 

So I was willing to offer a bit more patience than others have done - and some of you did go very early on this. 
 

But since the new year it has very much been a backward trend and the slightly good things I’d been seeing early on are now nowhere in sight. 
 

I wanted to give him a bit of time, conscious that the circumstances (and unnecessary pressure) were against him from day 1. 
But I’ve now come to the conclusion that he’s had enough time. 
I can’t see any positives in the last 4-6 weeks (and the interviews in this last week have been very very telling) and it’s definitely time to move on. 
For those of you that did go early - all I can say is fair play, you got it right. 
I was just trying to be a bit more defensive of him as I wanted to afford him the time but without the prejudice (and let’s not hide, there has definitely been some prejudice). 
 

But that’s me done now. He arrived unproven and an unlikely ‘fit’ and the last 2 months has told me he’s not going to prove anything here. Time to go. 

[Loosey Boy]

5 minutes ago, Harry said:

Yes, the poisoned chalice is definitely a thing. 
And it’s for that reason that I have been a bit more defensive of Manning than others have been. I just felt that, as he was now in the door, let’s at least give the bloke a chance. 
The circumstances of his arrival and specifically the words from the hierarchy added huge amounts of pressure to his role. 
And whilst I was as shocked as all of us at the words that were coming from the bosses, I managed to put that to one side in my mind and just allow Manning time to see what he could do. 
I wanted to judge him on him, not on the circumstances. 
That was the main thrust of one of my threads about 3 games in (I think it was entitled separating the truth and the fiction or something like that). 
In that thread I was attempting to say exactly this - let’s not judge the circumstance, let’s judge him. 
 

And as I’ve said elsewhere yesterday, in the first 4-6 weeks I was able to see one or two things which I thought he was trying to adjust and it was looking ok in my mind. The culmination of this was the Watford away match where I thought was as good as I’ve seen us in years. 
 

So I was willing to offer a bit more patience than others have done - and some of you did go very early on this. 
 

But since the new year it has very much been a backward trend and the slightly good things I’d been seeing early on are now nowhere in sight. 
 

I wanted to give him a bit of time, conscious that the circumstances (and unnecessary pressure) were against him from day 1. 
But I’ve now come to the conclusion that he’s had enough time. 
I can’t see any positives in the last 4-6 weeks (and the interviews in this last week have been very very telling) and it’s definitely time to move on. 
For those of you that did go early - all I can say is fair play, you got it right. 
I was just trying to be a bit more defensive of him as I wanted to afford him the time but without the prejudice (and let’s not hide, there has definitely been some prejudice). 
 

But that’s me done now. He arrived unproven and an unlikely ‘fit’ and the last 2 months has told me he’s not going to prove anything here. Time to go. 

With you @Harry - I just don’t see JL and BT wanting to admit they were wrong!

This may need intervention from SL but again, don’t see that happening either.

What a mess…..lose the next two and surely, they will have to act then.

[Davefevs]

Good post @Harry

[BrizzleRed]

5 hours ago, BUTOR said:

They are trying to sell. Lansdown has been all but checked out for about 5 years now. The issue is nobody serious wants to take his burden. The more pressure and toxicity that grows the more likely it becomes a firesale of the football club that, believe me, could make things worse. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t have a right to pile it on. It’s a complicated situation of his own doing and the biggest losers are ourselves. 

We somehow have to hope a good intentioned suitor comes along. Doesn’t happen often. They will of course whoever they are have more money than sense but that comes with the territory.

The soul of the club is mostly decayed, the damaged disguised with LED screens of club legends and a top goal scorers list in the concourse. How do we get it back? With an American conglomerate or gambling company as guardians? Unlikely. But something has to change. 

It’s shite. 

I’d put it more simply than that.  

Lansdown has made so many financial **** ups with this club that he’s clearly made them unsaleable at his current asking price.

He needs to hold his hands up and accept he’s not going to get his asking price and adjust it downwards, before he runs this club right into the ground, as he’ll get bugger all for it then. 

He’ll know from his financial background that you win some and lose some, but his financial return on City will be ever decreasing the longer he’s in charge, so the quicker he offloads, the better it’ll be.

It just just makes me angry even hearing the name Lansdown now, for what’s happening to this club.

[Merrick's Marvels]

1 hour ago, Superjack said:

I think we all knew NP was fighting against the tide.

Yep he was expected to somehow make a silk purse out of a sow's ear and was doing a steady, if unspectacular  job of it.

We were in safe hands, looking upwards.

Now replaced by a bloke who's undoing all his good work and making a complete pig's ear of it. 

And ee are now in danger of a Holden-esque free fall downwards.

Edited March 3 by Merrick's Marvels

[Davefevs]

14 minutes ago, BrizzleRed said:

that he’s clearly made them unsaleable at his current asking price.

 

Nutshell

[Davefevs]

11 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

Yep he was expected to somehow make a silk purse out of a sow's ear and was doing a steady, if unspectacular  job of it.

We were in safe hands, looking upwards.

Now replaced by a bloke who's undoing all his good work and making a complete pig's ear of it. 

And ee are now in danger of a Holden-esque free fall downwards.

I saw that comment on X last week, and on FBC “text” this morning…but relevant to manning.  He did not get anything like a sow’s ear.

[TDarwall]

13 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

Yep he was expected to somehow make a silk purse out of a sow's ear and was doing a steady, if unspectacular  job of it.

 

Now replaced by a bloke who's undoing all his good work and making a complete pig's ear of it. 

 

Irrespective of anything else, getting 2 porcine ear references into a single post is to be admired.

[BrizzleRed]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

I saw that comment on X last week, and on FBC “text” this morning…but relevant to manning.  He did not get anything like a sow’s ear.

Sort of like: 

Question - how do you make a sow’s ear out of a silk purse?

Answer - Give it to Jon Lansdown and Brian Tinnion to look after!

[cidered abroad]

6 hours ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

Think you can add the fans to that, never known such a quiet tame atmosphere for a derby game, or perhaps blame the players performance, where were the blood and thunder tackles, maybe its  a chicken and egg question, do the players need to get the fans going or do the fans help to get the players going, either way its on a downward spiral, but easy to sit back and blame everyone else 

I consider that it's pretty nigh impossible to get excited about City in matches.

Why? Because it's sideways and backwards passing. It is so rare for any City move starting with a forward pass into the middle of midfield and that means no noise from any of our supporters.

[AshtonGreat]

6 hours ago, RedLionLad said:

His lack of passion is part of the problem. If he's not fired up, you can hardly expect his team to give that extra effort.

Was Pearson passionate? 

[Numero Uno]

20 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

I consider that it's pretty nigh impossible to get excited about City in matches.

Why? Because it's sideways and backwards passing. It is so rare for any City move starting with a forward pass into the middle of midfield and that means no noise from any of our supporters.

The only thing missing is the ball played back to Max who then turns round and launches it backwards into Ashton Park………..at that point Liam’s work is done

[Merrick's Marvels]

34 minutes ago, TDarwall said:

Irrespective of anything else, getting 2 porcine ear references into a single post is to be admired.

Thank you squire

[Merrick's Marvels]

38 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I saw that comment on X last week, and on FBC “text” this morning…but relevant to manning.  He did not get anything like a sow’s ear.

No he didn't.

It was just my play on words!

Edited March 3 by Merrick's Marvels

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

No he didn't.

It was just my play on words!

Yeah, I know.

[Phileas Fogg]

6 hours ago, lenred said:

I actually was quite surprised that the atmosphere was pretty decent at the start of the game.   It soon waned after about 10 mins of complete and utter dire football (from both sides)! 

Agreed - Cardiff were probably the quietest i’ve seen them until the goal. The positioning is just all wrong - there’s no chance of interaction between home and away fans with S82 where they are - and as a result the atmosphere overall is bad.

[Red-Robbo]

I suppose the real tragedy was it was all so unnecessary.  If Pearson had us bumping around the relegation zone or in that area, I might agree that he had taken us as far as he could. But, to the contrary, the slow trend was of upward improvement. It was a steady rebuild. A reformation. 

A really good manager can make average players perform well, which I think we have seen in dribs and drabs this season. A poor manager will make average players look below average, which is what we've definitely seen in the last three games. 

We can only hope that Manning is learning that you can't keep doing the same thing and expect a different result. 

As for me, I've adopted the @Fordy62 approach of not caring as much about the club and its results. I looked at yesterday's result, didn't follow the game that closely, but read some of the comments from those that had and friends who were there and shrugged it off with a disappointed curse word and got on with enjoying my weekend.

I've toyed with the idea of not renewing the season. I know some of my matchday companions aren't. I probably will though as the ritual of the day and its social/drinking dimension are part of my life. Luckily, I don't go to watch Bristol City to see entertaining football! 

[BrizzleRed]

6 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

I suppose the real tragedy was it was all so unnecessary.  If Pearson had us bumping around the relegation zone or in that area, I might agree that he had taken us as far as he could. But, to the contrary, the slow trend was of upward improvement. It was a steady rebuild. A reformation. 

A really good manager can make average players perform well, which I think we have seen in dribs and drabs this season. A poor manager will make average players look below average, which is what we've definitely seen in the last three games. 

We can only hope that Manning is learning that you can't keep doing the same thing and expect a different result. 

As for me, I've adopted the @Fordy62 approach of not caring as much about the club and its results. I looked at yesterday's result, didn't follow the game that closely, but read some of the comments from those that had and friends who were there and shrugged it off with a disappointed curse word and got on with enjoying my weekend.

I've toyed with the idea of not renewing the season. I know some of my matchday companions aren't. I probably will though as the ritual of the day and its social/drinking dimension are part of my life. Luckily, I don't go to watch Bristol City to see entertaining football! 

This latest balls up is the final nail for me and convinced me that not only is SL incapable of making the correct decisions to take our club forward, but he does actually seem pretty good at scuppering genuine progress, on the rare occasions when we see some green shoots appearing.

He’s also proving that even after 20+ years, he’s learned absolutely nothing from his previous mistakes and continues making new ones.

The only reason I’m probably renewing is I don’t want to lose the excellent seat I’ve had in the SS since it opened.  It certainly isn’t due to any trust or even liking of Lansdown and any hope things will significantly improve under him.  I’m already bracing myself for another season of being absolutely bored shitless.  

Why do we do this to ourselves??

[Red-Robbo]

1 minute ago, BrizzleRed said:

This latest balls up is the final nail for me and convinced me that not only is SL incapable of making the correct decisions to take our club forward, but he does actually seem pretty good at scuppering genuine progress, on the rare occasions when we see some green shoots appearing.

He’s also proving that even after 20+ years, he’s learned absolutely nothing from his previous mistakes and continues making new ones.

The only reason I’m probably renewing is I don’t want to lose the excellent seat I’ve had in the SS since it opened.  It certainly isn’t due to any trust or even liking of Lansdown and any hope things will significantly improve under him.  I’m already bracing myself for another season of being absolutely bored shitless.  

Why do we do this to ourselves??

 

Always been a streak of masochism in following City 

[BrizzleRed]

3 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

Always been a streak of masochism in following City 

Must be RR, I can’t think of any other logical explanation!!! 

[Lorenzos Only Goal]

8 hours ago, Fordy62 said:

In my 35 years of supporting City never have I seen a manager set up to fail quite so badly by the top brass. I said it at the time of his appointment that he’d been dealt a poisoned chalice and it’s playing out exactly as I hoped it wouldn’t. 

So let’s try to remember that none of this is Manning’s fault. He took a lucrative job that none of would have turned down and none of us can blame him for taking. I’m sure he and his team are trying their very best.

Fortunately I lost my mojo for Bristol City when Nige was sacked. I saw it before with Cotterill and history has repeated itself. I say fortunately because I find myself really not caring too much about our games, how we’re performing etc. I find it sad I feel like this, but it helps eliminate the problem of the City result ruining your weekend - which I suspect is how many of you feel right now. 

But I suppose my main point is try not to get on Manning’s back. It’s not his fault. 

I’m grateful for the investment the Lansdowns have made, our new stadium is brilliant and we’re in a really good place off the pitch. But I think we’ve definitely run our course now, and with my very best wishes it’s time they sold up and left. And if they wouldn’t mind taking their mate Bri with them at the same time, that’d be ideal. They’re getting the comeuppance they deserve in spades. Completely out of their depth. 

I suppose you could sum up my feelings on them the same way they dealt with Nige. You feel the need to gamble on something new, yeh, it could well be worse, but it’s probably worth the gamble. 

He has been but its not removing from the fact his lack of experience and lack of ideas is costing us dear.  The raw Mebude thing vs our own raw Yeboah befuddles me are we paying a loan fee and wages for the kid, loans have to be able to hit the ground running if not, then you use your youth!  

[Midlands Robin]

You have to add into the chalice the bizarre January transfer window. 

Manning arrived at the start of November and therefore had between 8 and 10 weeks to run his eye over the squad and request funds to strengthen his team.

What he got seemed to be a continuation of the previously planned January transfer window strategy. It smacks of absolute arrogance that the board felt we wouldn't need to worry about any major signings until the summer.

Most clubs considering a manager change take the timing of transfer windows into account. It was discussed on here at the time NP was sacked that a contributing factor would have been not wanting to give Nige money to spend in January when he wasn't going to take the team into the following season. The fact that they also wouldn't give Nige any money in the summer after Scott left  supports that point.

To sum up then, Manning is brought in to replace a popular manager who had worked hard with very little to develop a hard working squad. The squad kept performing despite the loss of several key players. Manning's managerial style doesn't fit with the agenda set by the board who hired him. Then, he seemingly has no opportunity to inject any of his own signings into the team when he and the club have over two months to adjust the recruitment strategy 

Poison chalice indeed.

 

Edited March 3 by Midlands Robin

[Jerseybean]

11 hours ago, bearded_red said:

There’s a lot of truth in this of course, Liam Manning isn’t the biggest issue at Bristol City and sacking him won’t change much in regards of what is holding this club back.

However, the garbage mind numbing football is on him. The players looking shells of themselves is on him. The complete boredom at Ashton Gate is on him. He’s a mood hoover.

The whole thing is just weird. It’s like some sort of experiment on how to make football as sterile as possible. I keep hearing and reading how we ‘struggle to break teams down’. As far as I can see we don’t even try and break them down!

He needs to be sacked.

I used the word ‘sterile’ too yesterday immediately after the game in the MDT. My sense is those who are led tend to reflect some of the characteristics of their leader, LM comes across as sterile, robotic, lacking in charisma and dull all of which our style of play has become under him. 

So while I acknowledge the OPs point that he was set up to fail the nature of the failure seems to me to be down to his persona and attributes.

Sadly our hierarchy won’t be doing anything, anytime soon to address the miserable situation they have created. How long was it between LJ being called out on here and him actually departing?  

[Swede]

8 hours ago, Silvio Dante said:

This, a thousand times over.

Liam has had one successful season. A season where he took over a primed and ready squad Russell Martin put together with the three best players in the league. In those circumstances being beaten by Wycombe in the playoffs could even be classed as failure!

He had a summer. He recruited his own men, to his plan (side note - love that Ian on FBC said he didn’t want to sell Twine. No shit Sherlock. I’m sure the Brum manager wanted to keep Bellingham!) - he failed. Massively.

He has had a start of this season under his own steam and did well. 15 games. That’s not data - it’s an anecdote. And that’s the only period you can put solely down to his management - and if you read the Oxford forum they, although liking him, felt it was a false position.

And then here.

So now someone tell me why it’s a good idea to keep him for the summer to get his players?

It isn't a good idea. He's out of his depth, lost the players, in game management at this level is poor. League 1 is his level. 

In general, City fans are level headed but most can see right through his bluff & if the fans can see through it then I'm damn sure the players can.

[Dr Balls]

1 hour ago, Jerseybean said:

I used the word ‘sterile’ too yesterday immediately after the game in the MDT. My sense is those who are led tend to reflect some of the characteristics of their leader, LM comes across as sterile, robotic, lacking in charisma and dull all of which our style of play has become under him. 

So while I acknowledge the OPs point that he was set up to fail the nature of the failure seems to me to be down to his persona and attributes.

Sadly our hierarchy won’t be doing anything, anytime soon to address the miserable situation they have created. How long was it between LJ being called out on here and him actually departing?  

But the whole point is that Manning’s persona and attributes suit the Lansdowns. He’s not going to challenge the hierarchy at the club. He’s a “yes man” who rather than admit he’s not up to the job will blame the players for his failures. Unfortunately the reason for needing to appoint someone and then his particular appointment are a reflection of the poor leadership at the club.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Swede said:

It isn't a good idea. He's out of his depth, lost the players, in game management at this level is poor. League 1 is his level. 

In general, City fans are level headed but most can see right through his bluff & if the fans can see through it then I'm damn sure the players can.

I’m not convinced it’s bluff…it’s just not at the level required.

[fgrsimon]

2 hours ago, Midlands Robin said:

What he got seemed to be a continuation of the previously planned January transfer window strategy. It smacks of absolute arrogance that the board felt we wouldn't need to worry about any major signings until the summer.

Exactly this; arrogance and complacency in equal measures. I was alarmed when the 'signings for next season' strategy was publicly stated. There was never a guarantee which league we'd be playing in next season.  I wasn't expecting QPR and Sheff Wed to put up the fight they have done admittedly but there's always a chance at least one of the teams at the bottom will put a few wins together.  Equally if we'd somehow got promoted (yeah it's a bit of a stretch but) we'd be going to the EPL with L1, National League and League of Ireland players!

[Lorenzos Only Goal]

17 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I’ll happily go on the record and say I wasn’t one of them, because that’s not the way I work / rationalise.  I was happy to see how he went, and hopefully find he wasn’t a Russell Martin playing style theorist.

Bit it’s been quite easy to dissect his playing style.

He hasn’t been complete crap, but imho he’s not a good fit.  And I don’t think he ever will be unless HE CHANGES.  I don’t see that happening, and in some ways I get that.  But this is the championship.

Me too, I was livid and still am about Pearson's departure, but I was willing to give Manning the benefit of the doubt and compartmentalize the two issues.  The benefit of the doubt has been shown, and at this point, he's going to have us in a relegation scrap next season, he doesn't appear to have the experience or flexibility to adapt well at this level, all his rhetoric about stepping up boils my piss! He needs to step up, either pull in a more experienced assistant or adapt to the squad he has.

[Sheltons Army]

12 hours ago, Midlands Robin said:

What he got seemed to be a continuation of the previously planned January transfer window strategy. It smacks of absolute arrogance that the board felt we wouldn't need to worry about any major signings until the summer.

 

Interesting that you raise that word

Young @TomSutton talked about arrogance, from the hierarchy and tbh until that point I’d not really thought about this angle or label

You are both right IMO and in fact arrogance is IMO a large part of the problem here

They saw everything pretty hunky dory , ( except having to put up with the Oaf ) and it was time to get rid of the Oaf , and the next step was merely an appointment away under their new vision and under BTs football direction , because they knew better

The injuries and players schedules .....they knew better

(Brian , Jon...psssst..... you’ve overlooked the fact that we looked stable and moving forward and pretty hunky dory because of NP and his team and the plan everyone was working to.)

Change the playing ethos , no problem , destabilise the whole playing side , no problem 

Arrogance

Severely ill judged Arrogance