Manning’s poisoned chalice

[Fordy62]

In my 35 years of supporting City never have I seen a manager set up to fail quite so badly by the top brass. I said it at the time of his appointment that he’d been dealt a poisoned chalice and it’s playing out exactly as I hoped it wouldn’t. 

So let’s try to remember that none of this is Manning’s fault. He took a lucrative job that none of would have turned down and none of us can blame him for taking. I’m sure he and his team are trying their very best.

Fortunately I lost my mojo for Bristol City when Nige was sacked. I saw it before with Cotterill and history has repeated itself. I say fortunately because I find myself really not caring too much about our games, how we’re performing etc. I find it sad I feel like this, but it helps eliminate the problem of the City result ruining your weekend - which I suspect is how many of you feel right now. 

But I suppose my main point is try not to get on Manning’s back. It’s not his fault. 

I’m grateful for the investment the Lansdowns have made, our new stadium is brilliant and we’re in a really good place off the pitch. But I think we’ve definitely run our course now, and with my very best wishes it’s time they sold up and left. And if they wouldn’t mind taking their mate Bri with them at the same time, that’d be ideal. They’re getting the comeuppance they deserve in spades. Completely out of their depth. 

I suppose you could sum up my feelings on them the same way they dealt with Nige. You feel the need to gamble on something new, yeh, it could well be worse, but it’s probably worth the gamble. 

[Fuber]

3 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

In my 35 years of supporting City never have I seen a manager set up to fail quite so badly by the top brass. I said it at the time of his appointment that he’d been dealt a poisoned chalice and it’s playing out exactly as I hoped it wouldn’t. 

So let’s try to remember that none of this is Manning’s fault. He took a lucrative job that none of would have turned down and none of us can blame him for taking. I’m sure he and his team are trying their very best.

Fortunately I lost my mojo for Bristol City when Nige was sacked. I saw it before with Cotterill and history has repeated itself. I say fortunately because I find myself really not caring too much about our games, how we’re performing etc. I find it sad I feel like this, but it helps eliminate the problem of the City result ruining your weekend - which I suspect is how many of you feel right now. 

But I suppose my main point is try not to get on Manning’s back. It’s not his fault. 

I’m grateful for the investment the Lansdowns have made, our new stadium is brilliant and we’re in a really good place off the pitch. But I think we’ve definitely run our course now, and with my very best wishes it’s time they sold up and left. And if they wouldn’t mind taking their mate Bri with them at the same time, that’d be ideal. They’re getting the comeuppance they deserve in spades. Completely out of their depth. 

I suppose you could sum up my feelings on them the same way they dealt with Nige. You feel the need to gamble on something new, yeh, it could well be worse, but it’s probably worth the gamble. 

Disagree.

His lack of flexibility is purely down to him.

Would be willing to back him if I saw some gears turning, some adjustments - we saw it with NP trying out multiple systems to find what suited the squad.

He's just a crap manager.

[Fordy62]

2 minutes ago, Fuber said:

Disagree.

His lack of flexibility is purely down to him.

Would be willing to back him if I saw some gears turning, some adjustments - we saw it with NP trying out multiple systems to find what suited the squad.

He's just a crap manager.

I suppose I’d suggest they’re two different arguments. Mine being that it’s not really his fault that he’s been put in charge. I’m not saying he’s not a crap coach, just that he shouldn’t be here. 

[Back of the Dolman]

2 minutes ago, Fuber said:

Disagree.

His lack of flexibility is purely down to him.

Would be willing to back him if I saw some gears turning, some adjustments - we saw it with NP trying out multiple systems to find what suited the squad.

He's just a crap manager.

Yes, you can’t blame him for what went on before his arrival and the circumstances around NPs dismissal but what is going on out on the pitch is down to him and that cannot be denied.

[Swede]

This is what happens when the owner takes his foot off the pedal and takes advice from his son who's only credentials are that he's the son of the owner, nothing more and that also includes the loans manager/part time chief executive. I can't understand why he couldn't leave the football side to the experienced team he employed in the first place. It would leave him to concentrate fully on the Sporting Quarter development and ultimately selling. He must regret the decision to let his son make important decisions now.

[bearded_red]

There’s a lot of truth in this of course, Liam Manning isn’t the biggest issue at Bristol City and sacking him won’t change much in regards of what is holding this club back.

However, the garbage mind numbing football is on him. The players looking shells of themselves is on him. The complete boredom at Ashton Gate is on him. He’s a mood hoover.

The whole thing is just weird. It’s like some sort of experiment on how to make football as sterile as possible. I keep hearing and reading how we ‘struggle to break teams down’. As far as I can see we don’t even try and break them down!

He needs to be sacked.

[RedLionLad]

That didn't look or feel like a derby game yesterday. Manning didn't appear to be annoyed when players made mistakes or poor passes. I just don't think he has the passion required to take us forward,

[Andy082005]

22 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

In my 35 years of supporting City never have I seen a manager set up to fail quite so badly by the top brass. I said it at the time of his appointment that he’d been dealt a poisoned chalice and it’s playing out exactly as I hoped it wouldn’t. 

So let’s try to remember that none of this is Manning’s fault. He took a lucrative job that none of would have turned down and none of us can blame him for taking. I’m sure he and his team are trying their very best.

Fortunately I lost my mojo for Bristol City when Nige was sacked. I saw it before with Cotterill and history has repeated itself. I say fortunately because I find myself really not caring too much about our games, how we’re performing etc. I find it sad I feel like this, but it helps eliminate the problem of the City result ruining your weekend - which I suspect is how many of you feel right now. 

But I suppose my main point is try not to get on Manning’s back. It’s not his fault. 

I’m grateful for the investment the Lansdowns have made, our new stadium is brilliant and we’re in a really good place off the pitch. But I think we’ve definitely run our course now, and with my very best wishes it’s time they sold up and left. And if they wouldn’t mind taking their mate Bri with them at the same time, that’d be ideal. They’re getting the comeuppance they deserve in spades. Completely out of their depth. 

I suppose you could sum up my feelings on them the same way they dealt with Nige. You feel the need to gamble on something new, yeh, it could well be worse, but it’s probably worth the gamble. 

I’ve nothing to add to this. Spot on and is exactly how I, and many other feel

[One Team]

I get what you are saying @Fordy62 and I agree somewhat. 

The sacking of Nige and how that exposed Lansdown and then the appointment of Manning are two different sides of the same coin for me. Both are ridiculous. 

I still think they will stick with him though, which will prove more difficult if the losses keep on coming, especially if we lose to Swansea next week. We needed a response yesterday after two straight losses to relegation threatened teams; you could argue we got one, it was worse! 

Ipswich away would be difficult for any manager and team right now, but we simply have to see a positive display against Swansea. 

[Andy082005]

2 minutes ago, RedLionLad said:

That didn't look or feel like a derby game yesterday. Manning didn't appear to be annoyed when players made mistakes or poor passes. I just don't think he has the passion required to take us forward,

It’s not about passion. It’s about being up to the job 

He quite simply isn’t. This is a LJ scenario all over again where we have taken a young coach and we are allowing him to learn his trade on the job 

Manning is going to cop it from the fans big time. It’s a shame but that’s the reality of football I’m afraid. You take the top job know if it doesn’t work out you will cop the flak 

Get him gone now before it’s too late. As someone mentioned earlier, go get someone like Heckingbottom - it’s not an ideal choice but at least he has experience of this league 

 

[RedLionLad]

7 minutes ago, Andy082005 said:

It’s not about passion. It’s about being up to the job 

He quite simply isn’t. This is a LJ scenario all over again where we have taken a young coach and we are allowing him to learn his trade on the job 

Manning is going to cop it from the fans big time. It’s a shame but that’s the reality of football I’m afraid. You take the top job know if it doesn’t work out you will cop the flak 

Get him gone now before it’s too late. As someone mentioned earlier, go get someone like Heckingbottom - it’s not an ideal choice but at least he has experience of this league 

 

His lack of passion is part of the problem. If he's not fired up, you can hardly expect his team to give that extra effort.

[Slack Bladder]

Watching the games recently, we seem to get to half time and the opposition have worked us out, they make tactical changes and implement them in the second half, get the lead and we cannot break them down.

For me, Manning hasn't got the ability to change us tactically if things aren't going to plan. This is a concern. Why we persist with playing one up front, when it's clearly not working is beyond me.

He's like a pit pony, blinkered and can only see in one direction. I'm sure he'll be great coaching a team of robots, but players are human and he seems to lack any sort of man management.

[Bcfc willzyak]

I’ve always believed manning was second choice to be appointed I genuinely reckon there was a candidate above him who didn’t buy into the lands clown philosophy.

now we’re stuck with his poison 

 

 

[S_C]

15 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

In my 35 years of supporting City never have I seen a manager set up to fail quite so badly by the top brass. I said it at the time of his appointment that he’d been dealt a poisoned chalice and it’s playing out exactly as I hoped it wouldn’t. 

So let’s try to remember that none of this is Manning’s fault. He took a lucrative job that none of would have turned down and none of us can blame him for taking. I’m sure he and his team are trying their very best.

Fortunately I lost my mojo for Bristol City when Nige was sacked. I saw it before with Cotterill and history has repeated itself. I say fortunately because I find myself really not caring too much about our games, how we’re performing etc. I find it sad I feel like this, but it helps eliminate the problem of the City result ruining your weekend - which I suspect is how many of you feel right now. 

But I suppose my main point is try not to get on Manning’s back. It’s not his fault. 

I’m grateful for the investment the Lansdowns have made, our new stadium is brilliant and we’re in a really good place off the pitch. But I think we’ve definitely run our course now, and with my very best wishes it’s time they sold up and left. And if they wouldn’t mind taking their mate Bri with them at the same time, that’d be ideal. They’re getting the comeuppance they deserve in spades. Completely out of their depth. 

I suppose you could sum up my feelings on them the same way they dealt with Nige. You feel the need to gamble on something new, yeh, it could well be worse, but it’s probably worth the gamble. 

Broadly speaking, I feel similar.

Skimming through the Manning out posts/tweets, couldn’t help but think how misguided the anger was. He clearly hasn’t made a terrific start, and it’s fine to critique his teams performance and air frustrations with his mannerisms but how, in the space of four months, has it gone from BT/JL don’t know what they’re doing, to LM doesn’t know what he’s doing.

Now, both may be true, though I’d suggest there is more evidence that LM can coach a successful football team than BT/JL lead a successful football club, but to call for his head is to gloss over the issue in the extreme.

Let’s say he’s sacked this week, let’s say the new appointment hits the ground running. Is everything ok again? It’s a bizarre situation, but I almost don’t want a scenario where our results improve as a result of sacking LM. Everyone wants their club to be successful, of course, but he’s a product of a weak, inward, mentality, and was handed an absolute hospital pass with the ludicrous expectations set on his arrival. Clearly, that was constructed bollocks by a hierarchy which didn’t have the balls to tell the truth, and the time for pining over Pearson is gone, but it should not be forgotten, and the anger has to be primarily aimed higher than LM.

For what it’s worth, though my conviction on this is waning, I think we’ll be fine this season (this is caveated somewhat by if he still has the dressing room). I also think, presuming we are, we’ll throw money at in the summer and see improvement next season. Again, as per sacking LM, spending to cover mistakes is bittersweet, and we’ve been down that road before.

Ultimately, Manning needs time. And, ultimately, I think it’s in everyone’s interests to give it to him.

[sh1t_ref_again]

6 minutes ago, RedLionLad said:

His lack of passion is part of the problem. If he's not fired up, you can hardly expect his team to give that extra effort.

Think you can add the fans to that, never known such a quiet tame atmosphere for a derby game, or perhaps blame the players performance, where were the blood and thunder tackles, maybe its  a chicken and egg question, do the players need to get the fans going or do the fans help to get the players going, either way its on a downward spiral, but easy to sit back and blame everyone else 

[Ashton Fete]

I agree in parts especially on the wider club aspects but he decides tactics, formations and substitutions. 

That’s on him and it’s where we seem completely lost at the moment.

[38MC]

6 minutes ago, S_C said:

Broadly speaking, I feel similar.

Skimming through the Manning out posts/tweets, couldn’t help but think how misguided the anger was. He clearly hasn’t made a terrific start, and it’s fine to critique his teams performance and air frustrations with his mannerisms but how, in the space of four months, has it gone from BT/JL don’t know what they’re doing, to LM doesn’t know what he’s doing.

Now, both may be true, though I’d suggest there is more evidence that LM can coach a successful football team than BT/JL lead a successful football club, but to call for his head is to gloss over the issue in the extreme.

Let’s say he’s sacked this week, let’s say the new appointment hits the ground running. Is everything ok again? It’s a bizarre situation, but I almost don’t want a scenario where our results improve as a result of sacking LM. Everyone wants their club to be successful, of course, but he’s a product of a weak, inward, mentality, and was handed an absolute hospital pass with the ludicrous expectations set on his arrival. Clearly, that was constructed bollocks by a hierarchy which didn’t have the balls to tell the truth, and the time for pining over Pearson is gone, but it should not be forgotten, and the anger has to be primarily aimed higher than LM.

For what it’s worth, though my conviction on this is waning, I think we’ll be fine this season (this is caveated somewhat by if he still has the dressing room). I also think, presuming we are, we’ll throw money at in the summer and see improvement next season. Again, as per sacking LM, spending to cover mistakes is bittersweet, and we’ve been down that road before.

Ultimately, Manning needs time. And, ultimately, I think it’s in everyone’s interests to give it to him.

The issue is JL is here until we are sold. We can’t really force that issue as a fan base. Look at Reading - an owner is nigh on impossible to remove. 

As for BT, I suggest he does get his fair share of pelters. I don’t think it’s fair to suggest the fans have eased up on him. Indeed many say when manning goes he rightly should fall on his sword as well. 

So whilst I agree the vitriol is due to each, I do think they each get their fair share. 

As for Manning, I cannot sympathise with him because he’s simply not competent. 

[RedLionLad]

10 minutes ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

Think you can add the fans to that, never known such a quiet tame atmosphere for a derby game, or perhaps blame the players performance, where were the blood and thunder tackles, maybe its  a chicken and egg question, do the players need to get the fans going or do the fans help to get the players going, either way its on a downward spiral, but easy to sit back and blame everyone else 

12:30pm Kick-Off didn't help

[marmite]

14 minutes ago, Bcfc willzyak said:

I’ve always believed manning was second choice to be appointed I genuinely reckon there was a candidate above him who didn’t buy into the lands clown philosophy.

now we’re stuck with his poison 

 

 

Interesting theory. Just a personal thought or have you heard something?

[jambodinho]

56 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

In my 35 years of supporting City never have I seen a manager set up to fail quite so badly by the top brass. I said it at the time of his appointment that he’d been dealt a poisoned chalice and it’s playing out exactly as I hoped it wouldn’t. 

So let’s try to remember that none of this is Manning’s fault. He took a lucrative job that none of would have turned down and none of us can blame him for taking. I’m sure he and his team are trying their very best.

Fortunately I lost my mojo for Bristol City when Nige was sacked. I saw it before with Cotterill and history has repeated itself. I say fortunately because I find myself really not caring too much about our games, how we’re performing etc. I find it sad I feel like this, but it helps eliminate the problem of the City result ruining your weekend - which I suspect is how many of you feel right now. 

But I suppose my main point is try not to get on Manning’s back. It’s not his fault. 

I’m grateful for the investment the Lansdowns have made, our new stadium is brilliant and we’re in a really good place off the pitch. But I think we’ve definitely run our course now, and with my very best wishes it’s time they sold up and left. And if they wouldn’t mind taking their mate Bri with them at the same time, that’d be ideal. They’re getting the comeuppance they deserve in spades. Completely out of their depth. 

I suppose you could sum up my feelings on them the same way they dealt with Nige. You feel the need to gamble on something new, yeh, it could well be worse, but it’s probably worth the gamble. 

I feel the same as you although my interest died after LJ’s 2nd record breaking run of defeats/games without a win when it seemed he was unsackable due to his relationship with the owner. Had a season ticket for 6 years in a row. Think I’ve been about 4 times since. It’s gone from being a huge part of my life to just something I keep an eye on from a distance. Once the Lansdown family and Mr Tinnion are gone, I’ll hopefully become interested again. 

[lenred]

3 minutes ago, RedLionLad said:

12:30pm Kick-Off didn't help

I actually was quite surprised that the atmosphere was pretty decent at the start of the game.   It soon waned after about 10 mins of complete and utter dire football (from both sides)! 

[Bcfc willzyak]

Just now, marmite said:

Interesting theory. Just a personal thought or have you heard something?

I got nothing concrete, the rumour floating around at the time was frank lampard, I do know he was in Clifton a few days before we appointed manning.

 

[Silvio Dante]

As I’ve said a few times, due diligence wasn’t done on Liam - but equally he didn’t do it on us.

If you look at all the things the club say they wanted to deliver (youth progression), how the squad was set up (counter attacking as opposed to ball retention), and, crucially, the situation he came into (fans expectations as set out by the board) he should have looked at that and gone “**** me I don’t tick any of those boxes” and said no when approached.

He didn’t. And you can argue that we’d all go for the job when the money was that good. And it’s possible to argue that by coming into an imperfect scenario he showed some belief in himself. But ultimately the failure is the boards, but it’s equally Liams for being nakedly ambitious and moving to a job he didn’t have the tools to succeed at.

And in doing so, he will soon have two sackings in two years, and most damaging of all, a reputation garnered in Oxford for not seeing things through when given the tools to do so and the club took a chance on him.

In short, he’s ****ed for himself long term by not doing his own due diligence. Todays Kieran McKenna is quickly tomorrows Michael Appleton.

5 minutes ago, Bcfc willzyak said:

I got nothing concrete, the rumour floating around at the time was frank lampard, I do know he was in Clifton a few days before we appointed manning.

 

I’m pretty sure he was at the Avon Valley Gorge hotel. With Alan Curbishley.

[Eddie Hitler]

1 hour ago, Fordy62 said:

In my 35 years of supporting City never have I seen a manager set up to fail quite so badly by the top brass. I said it at the time of his appointment that he’d been dealt a poisoned chalice and it’s playing out exactly as I hoped it wouldn’t. 

So let’s try to remember that none of this is Manning’s fault. He took a lucrative job that none of would have turned down and none of us can blame him for taking. I’m sure he and his team are trying their very best.

Fortunately I lost my mojo for Bristol City when Nige was sacked. I saw it before with Cotterill and history has repeated itself. I say fortunately because I find myself really not caring too much about our games, how we’re performing etc. I find it sad I feel like this, but it helps eliminate the problem of the City result ruining your weekend - which I suspect is how many of you feel right now. 

But I suppose my main point is try not to get on Manning’s back. It’s not his fault. 

I’m grateful for the investment the Lansdowns have made, our new stadium is brilliant and we’re in a really good place off the pitch. But I think we’ve definitely run our course now, and with my very best wishes it’s time they sold up and left. And if they wouldn’t mind taking their mate Bri with them at the same time, that’d be ideal. They’re getting the comeuppance they deserve in spades. Completely out of their depth. 

I suppose you could sum up my feelings on them the same way they dealt with Nige. You feel the need to gamble on something new, yeh, it could well be worse, but it’s probably worth the gamble. 

 

Yes, that is also my view.  Saved my typing it out.

I am hugely grateful for what the Lansdown family has done for the club, and this view is strongly coloured by the knowledge that if I had their resources and owned the club then I would very much have done the same, mistakes and all.  From betting the house on Gary Johnson, to sticking with Lee Johnson despite the critics.

Maybe not appointing Mark Ashton, or if having done so then quickly sacking him, but apart from that I have broadly agreed with the way that they run the club.

Oh, and of course Bristol Sport is a daft concept which should have been quietly put of its misery years ago. But we all know that.

This is why, if I win £100m+ on the Eurmillions, I will not be buying City as my reign would be very smillar to their reign.

And also why I think it should be somebody else's turn, and the Lansdowns will leave with my thanks for what they have achieved.

[Dastardly and Muttley]

Completely agree with everything in the OP, @Fordy62

It’s not Manning’s fault. He shouldn’t be here and he’s been stitched up.

I can understand moving on from Nigel, particularly if his health issues were viewed to be affecting things. However, the way in which it was done and the rhetoric at the time was nonsensical and set Manning up for failure.

I wish it had worked out and we’d stumbled on the next big thing, but it hasn’t. Time for SL, JL, BT and LM to pick up their ball and go home.

[S_C]

5 minutes ago, 38MC said:

The issue is JL is here until we are sold. We can’t really force that issue as a fan base. Look at Reading - an owner is nigh on impossible to remove. 

As for BT, I suggest he does get his fair share of pelters. I don’t think it’s fair to suggest the fans have eased up on him. Indeed many say when manning goes he rightly should fall on his sword as well. 

So whilst I agree the vitriol is due to each, I do think they each get their fair share. 

As for Manning, I cannot sympathise with him because he’s simply not competent. 

He’s a young coach who has been successful at a lower level. For what JL/BT want, which as you say is what we’re stuck with for the foreseeable, I actually think LM is a good appointment.

BT/JL are, in my opinion, almost entirely culpable for the situation. Setting a top 6 narrative as opposed to more modest expectations has largely hung him out to dry. He doesn’t get a free pass, criticising his performance is fine, but there’s a huge gulf between that occurring against stated expectations vs reality. Fans are pissed off that they’ve been, pretty transparently, fed a line on NP’s exit, and it’s now the backdrop to the heat LM is getting.

The smart play here would be for BT/JL to take the pressure off him. Come out and admit they placed unrealistic expectations on him (which I believe started to happen in some sort of Christmas e-mail that was issued, where JL referenced things taking time), stress the need for patience, and take real ownership of the situation they have created. Certainly wont be holding my breath, but an honest interview acknowledging they put undue pressure on LM would help no end.

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, S_C said:

He’s a young coach who has been successful at a lower level. For what JL/BT want, which as you say is what we’re stuck with for the foreseeable, I actually think LM is a good appointment.

BT/JL are, in my opinion, almost entirely culpable for the situation. Setting a top 6 narrative as opposed to more modest expectations has largely hung him out to dry. He doesn’t get a free pass, criticising his performance is fine, but there’s a huge gulf between that occurring against stated expectations vs reality. Fans are pissed off that they’ve been, pretty transparently, fed a line on NP’s exit, and it’s now the backdrop to the heat LM is getting.

The smart play here would be for BT/JL to take the pressure off him. Come out and admit they placed unrealistic expectations on him (which I believe started to happen in some sort of Christmas e-mail that was issued, where JL referenced things taking time), stress the need for patience, and take real ownership of the situation they have created. Certainly wont be holding my breath, but an honest interview acknowledging they put undue pressure on LM would help no end.

He is a young coach who has been successful AND unsuccessful at a lower level.  He gets painted as a one way  upward trend.

[Mr Popodopolous]

21 minutes ago, RedLionLad said:

12:30pm Kick-Off didn't help

12:30pm Kick-Off doesn't help but also isn't something new vs Cardiff and Swansea.

It's a shitty kick-off slot but iirc..without checking.

2012-13, 2015-16, 2016-17, 2017-18, 2022-23 (Sunday), 2023-24.

2019-20 and 2020-21 both 3pm but Covid and behind closed doors so it made no difference.

[Oh Louie louie]

He shouldn't be surprised at getting stitched up tbf our track records not great

[BUTOR]

They are trying to sell. Lansdown has been all but checked out for about 5 years now. The issue is nobody serious wants to take his burden. The more pressure and toxicity that grows the more likely it becomes a firesale of the football club that, believe me, could make things worse. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t have a right to pile it on. It’s a complicated situation of his own doing and the biggest losers are ourselves. 

We somehow have to hope a good intentioned suitor comes along. Doesn’t happen often. They will of course whoever they are have more money than sense but that comes with the territory.

The soul of the club is mostly decayed, the damaged disguised with LED screens of club legends and a top goal scorers list in the concourse. How do we get it back? With an American conglomerate or gambling company as guardians? Unlikely. But something has to change. 

It’s shite.