BJ

[REDOXO]

7 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I posted a while back that I wondered if he’d had some form of epiphany, ie what am I gonna do with my life.  This was off of the back of hearing a story that Jon had asked to become CEO, but instead of giving him the role it was a bit like - “you carry on being Chairman, but I’ll put a safety blanket of Gavin, Tom and Brian around you whilst you prove yourself”.

More than possible David. However I’m not sure the epiphany wasn’t a bit of a two way street. 
 

JL What am I going to do with my life dad?

SL Yeah what are you going to do with your life?

SL Thinks….. I know I’ll give you that football club, perhaps they’ll like you more! I’ll let Brian know! 
 

 

[Davefevs]

4 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

More than possible David. However I’m not sure the epiphany wasn’t a bit of a two way street. 
 

JL What am I going to do with my life dad?

SL Yeah what are you going to do with your life?

SL Thinks….. I know I’ll give you that football club, perhaps they’ll like you more! I’ll let Brian know! 
 

 

Probably right!

[bcfcape91]

I'm not particularly interested. However, if this is your way of examining whether SL is still active behind the scenes, or not, then you'd be better of including the successes too. That would provide better evidence, be more objective, and in my opinion be more interesting.

[Barrs Court Red]

14 minutes ago, bcfcape91 said:

I'm not particularly interested. However, if this is your way of examining whether SL is still active behind the scenes, or not, then you'd be better of including the successes too. That would provide better evidence, be more objective, and in my opinion be more interesting.

There is indeed balance to the argument. I don't think anyone can run a football club for 2 decades without delivering anything of note - Fans would have them out undoubtedly.    

• Grown the fan base significantly
• Improved Ashton Gate significantly
• Grown the youth set up to consistently deliver quality 
• Grown the profile of the club
• Avoided the worst of the ITV Digital collapse 
• Created a training facility worthy of its name
• 2 promotions, 2 cup wins, a league cup semi final

That is not an exhaustive list, I'm sure there's other points worthy of inclusion.

[Galley is our king]

1 hour ago, REDOXO said:

Some good points among some nonsense. 
 

My thought for a while (and stated before) is JL has been handed the club as a hobby 
 

Major decisions are ran by papa but, JL needs experience as one day he will be at the helm of dads empire. Just a fact! 
 

What better way to get experience than to piss off thousands of people by making shit decisions on your learning curve.
 

The firing of The CEO, Pearson, his team and the promoting of BT to Technical Director are horror decisions. Yes probably ran by pop, but he’s on his own! 
 

If you are SL, JL is a lot easier to take ******* up Bristol Sport and learning something, than slopping around on a yacht! 

Fixed that for you...

[JAWS]

3 hours ago, REDOXO said:

Some good points among some nonsense. 
 

My thought for a while (and stated before) is JL has been handed the club as something to do. 
 

Major decisions are ran by papa but, JL needs experience as one day he will be at the helm of dads empire. Just a fact! 
 

What better way to get experience than to piss off thousands of people by making shit decisions on your learning curve.
 

The firing of The CEO, Pearson, his team and the promoting of BT to Technical Director are horror decisions. Yes probably ran by pop, but he’s on his own! 
 

If you are SL, JL is a lot easier to take ******* up Bristol Sport and learning something, than slopping around on a yacht! 

Fair points RO but a bit offended by the nonsense shout! 

[JAWS]

2 hours ago, Barrs Court Red said:

There is indeed balance to the argument. I don't think anyone can run a football club for 2 decades without delivering anything of note - Fans would have them out undoubtedly.    

• Grown the fan base significantly
• Improved Ashton Gate significantly
• Grown the youth set up to consistently deliver quality 
• Grown the profile of the club
• Avoided the worst of the ITV Digital collapse 
• Created a training facility worthy of its name
• 2 promotions, 2 cup wins, a league cup semi final

That is not an exhaustive list, I'm sure there's other points worthy of inclusion.

Fair points. Not sure the last one is much of a positive though spread over 22 years? 

And whilst AG is now smart he ballsed up the Ashton Vale village green debacle plus not ideal having a whole end dedicated to away fans. 

[JAWS]

2 hours ago, bcfcape91 said:

I'm not particularly interested. However, if this is your way of examining whether SL is still active behind the scenes, or not, then you'd be better of including the successes too. That would provide better evidence, be more objective, and in my opinion be more interesting.

The negatives far outweigh the positives. I'm more interested in the footballing side & the few positives are mainly material things. 

I did begin to list football positives but they were managerial appointments that were quickly reversed!

[richwwtk]

4 minutes ago, JAWS said:

The negatives far outweigh the positives.

 

If you are referring to SL's time in charge overall I don't think you could be more wrong.

You have @Barrs Court Red 's list a few posts up, all things that have happened over the last 21 years as a result of multiple (mainly business) decisions that have been made by SL.

Your list on the OP is a list of individual decisions that were either obvious mistakes at the time or turned out to be mistakes with hindsight, but I do not believe for a second any of them were made with anything but the best intentions for the club. There are also some things listed that are either debatable or simply wrong.

Overall though, the positives have to outweigh the negatives simply because the club is in a better position now than when he took over.

Of course you can point to clubs that have overtaken us in that time, but the fact that our average league position these days is higher than it was then means there are a larger number of clubs that we have overtaken ourselves.

Things aren't great right now, but in my opinion they are nowhere near as bad as the overwhelming mood in here seems to be. We are frustratingly inconsistent, and certainly poor at breaking obstinate sides down, but we are also capable of being very good on our day and Manning may yet find the key to that happening on a more regular basis albeit a poor run to the end of the season would see him sacked I would think.

[Davefevs]

40 minutes ago, richwwtk said:

If you are referring to SL's time in charge overall I don't think you could be more wrong.

You have @Barrs Court Red 's list a few posts up, all things that have happened over the last 21 years as a result of multiple (mainly business) decisions that have been made by SL.

Your list on the OP is a list of individual decisions that were either obvious mistakes at the time or turned out to be mistakes with hindsight, but I do not believe for a second any of them were made with anything but the best intentions for the club. There are also some things listed that are either debatable or simply wrong.

Overall though, the positives have to outweigh the negatives simply because the club is in a better position now than when he took over.

Of course you can point to clubs that have overtaken us in that time, but the fact that our average league position these days is higher than it was then means there are a larger number of clubs that we have overtaken ourselves.

Things aren't great right now, but in my opinion they are nowhere near as bad as the overwhelming mood in here seems to be. We are frustratingly inconsistent, and certainly poor at breaking obstinate sides down, but we are also capable of being very good on our day and Manning may yet find the key to that happening on a more regular basis albeit a poor run to the end of the season would see him sacked I would think.

I don’t think (only my opinion) you can take lots of different pros and cons and then just throw in an overall conclusion justified by league position.  You’d kinda hope a club that has spent £200m+ in that time had progressed a bit, wouldn’t you.  No other club in that time has spent more than us and not experienced the PL, we are an outlier.

 

[Eddie Hitler]

48 minutes ago, richwwtk said:

If you are referring to SL's time in charge overall I don't think you could be more wrong.

You have @Barrs Court Red 's list a few posts up, all things that have happened over the last 21 years as a result of multiple (mainly business) decisions that have been made by SL.

Your list on the OP is a list of individual decisions that were either obvious mistakes at the time or turned out to be mistakes with hindsight, but I do not believe for a second any of them were made with anything but the best intentions for the club. There are also some things listed that are either debatable or simply wrong.

Overall though, the positives have to outweigh the negatives simply because the club is in a better position now than when he took over.

Of course you can point to clubs that have overtaken us in that time, but the fact that our average league position these days is higher than it was then means there are a larger number of clubs that we have overtaken ourselves.

Things aren't great right now, but in my opinion they are nowhere near as bad as the overwhelming mood in here seems to be. We are frustratingly inconsistent, and certainly poor at breaking obstinate sides down, but we are also capable of being very good on our day and Manning may yet find the key to that happening on a more regular basis albeit a poor run to the end of the season would see him sacked I would think.

 

Yes.

Whilst we may all think that the club should be doing better that isn't the same as saying that the club is doing terribly.

This isn't to say that people should lower their sights, no, dream away, but don't say that we are doing badly when we really are not.

The infrastructure is of course excellent, and it's almost a cliché to say that, but also the Academy produces excellent players, we can attract in decent players, and a series of disasters excepted we look no more like dropping into Division 3 than we have for the last few seasons.

If it was a school report it would be:

"Has done okay, but can do better".

[REDOXO]

1 hour ago, JAWS said:

Fair points RO but a bit offended by the nonsense shout! 

I wasn’t just referring to you!  

[Robbored]

2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I don’t think (only my opinion) you can take lots of different pros and cons and then just throw in an overall conclusion justified by league position.  You’d kinda hope a club that has spent £200m+ in that time had progressed a bit, wouldn’t you.  No other club in that time has spent more than us and not experienced the PL, we are an outlier.

 

Brings us right back to what Nige hinted heavily at - that the difficulties within the club lie at the top and that was before he was sacked.

Nige was a manager that the players and most of us had plenty of respect for and I always listened to whatever he had to say and put emphasis onto his words.

 

[GrahamC]

50 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I don’t think (only my opinion) you can take lots of different pros and cons and then just throw in an overall conclusion justified by league position.  You’d kinda hope a club that has spent £200m+ in that time had progressed a bit, wouldn’t you.  No other club in that time has spent more than us and not experienced the PL, we are an outlier.

 

Plus those “2 promotions” & “2 cup wins” were only because we had been relegated back to the 3rd tier again.

Basically on the pitch it is a playoff final & a League Cup semi final in 22 years.

Some might say “okay” but I’d say for a reported £200m spend it is truly pitiful.

[Major Isewater]

Who’s John Given? 

[JAWS]

2 hours ago, Eddie Hitler said:

 

Yes.

Whilst we may all think that the club should be doing better that isn't the same as saying that the club is doing terribly.

This isn't to say that people should lower their sights, no, dream away, but don't say that we are doing badly when we really are not.

The infrastructure is of course excellent, and it's almost a cliché to say that, but also the Academy produces excellent players, we can attract in decent players, and a series of disasters excepted we look no more like dropping into Division 3 than we have for the last few seasons.

If it was a school report it would be:

"Has done okay, but can do better".

I think if that school report covered an academic year it would be fine but not 22 of the bast*rds! 

[JAWS]

1 hour ago, GrahamC said:

Plus those “2 promotions” & “2 cup wins” were only because we had been relegated back to the 3rd tier again.

Basically on the pitch it is a playoff final & a League Cup semi final in 22 years.

Some might say “okay” but I’d say for a reported £200m spend it is truly pitiful.

Spot in GC. Not forgetting Bristol is the 5th or 6th biggest city in the country! Pitiful indeed. Let's settle for mediocre shall we  Scott Davidson had a fraction of lansclowns wealth but had more ambition in the tip of his little finger! 

[JAWS]

SL has also created a model that is narrowed options for selling significantly, added to the likely unrealistic price he will set to recover all of his 'goodwill' investment. Do not be fooled 

[richwwtk]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I don’t think (only my opinion) you can take lots of different pros and cons and then just throw in an overall conclusion justified by league position.  You’d kinda hope a club that has spent £200m+ in that time had progressed a bit, wouldn’t you.  No other club in that time has spent more than us and not experienced the PL, we are an outlier.

 

Fair enough, although it isn't just league position.

You have a fan base grown beyond anything I have seen in my 40odd years of going to Ashton Gate.

You have the improved ground, the fact that we are seen ever more widely as the top club in the South West (I'm not 100% sure but has the gap as it is ever been wider?).

The training ground will take a while before it really shows its benefits, but is above what was there before.

And as for league position, we are now established in the Championship and it feels like home. 21 years ago we were at best a yo-yo club between League 1 and the Championship, and to be honest the times in the higher of the two divisions always felt like brief visits.

As for Bristol Sport, I have now got used to the idea and actually quite like it. The Sporting Quarter (or whatever it is called) looks very impressive and I am looking forward to it eventually being built.

I do think that Bristol Sport is, however, an indication that SL is most passionate about Bristol itself rather than City specifically, and whilst I can understand people not being comfortable with that it does no make him a bad owner.

I think maybe what does need to change is the mindset of the club. Things like celebrating the anniversary of 4th round cup matches etc show what is essentially a 'small club' attitude and maybe we really need to start thinking of City as bigger than we are in order to really progress. Another symptom is over promoting club 'legends' such as Tinnion. With the changes that have happened over the last few years maybe that will change. We will see.

All finally though, I really do not believe you can say that the SL era has, to date, been a negative one.

[richwwtk]

12 minutes ago, JAWS said:

Spot in GC. Not forgetting Bristol is the 5th or 6th biggest city in the country! Pitiful indeed. Let's settle for mediocre shall we  Scott Davidson had a fraction of lansclowns wealth but had more ambition in the tip of his little finger! 

I liked Scott Davidson as well, and he did many things better, but we were stagnating just as much with him in charge.

And names such as Lansclown are uncalled for imo.

[SecretSam]

3 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I don’t think (only my opinion) you can take lots of different pros and cons and then just throw in an overall conclusion justified by league position.  You’d kinda hope a club that has spent £200m+ in that time had progressed a bit, wouldn’t you.  No other club in that time has spent more than us and not experienced the PL, we are an outlier.

 

How much have Stoke spent to be the mess they are?

[cellist]

5 minutes ago, SecretSam said:

 No other club in that time has spent more than us and not experienced the PL, we are an outlier.

1 minute ago, SecretSam said:

How much have Stoke spent to be the mess they are?

Sure they've spent much more than us. But since our play off final, they've had 10 seasons in the Premier League, a season in Europe and an FA Cup final. They've made a mess of things spectacularly since 2018 for sure. They should never have gone down, they finished 13th the season before. (9th for the three before that).

 

[JAWS]

11 minutes ago, richwwtk said:

I liked Scott Davidson as well, and he did many things better, but we were stagnating just as much with him in charge.

And names such as Lansclown are uncalled for imo.

Tbh feels like a circus quite a lot of time so I think it's quite appropriate. Had he not disrespected us fans in the past I might be more considerate. Also rolls of the tongue quite nicely 

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, richwwtk said:

Fair enough, although it isn't just league position.

You have a fan base grown beyond anything I have seen in my 40odd years of going to Ashton Gate.

You have the improved ground, the fact that we are seen ever more widely as the top club in the South West (I'm not 100% sure but has the gap as it is ever been wider?).

The training ground will take a while before it really shows its benefits, but is above what was there before.

And as for league position, we are now established in the Championship and it feels like home. 21 years ago we were at best a yo-yo club between League 1 and the Championship, and to be honest the times in the higher of the two divisions always felt like brief visits.

As for Bristol Sport, I have now got used to the idea and actually quite like it. The Sporting Quarter (or whatever it is called) looks very impressive and I am looking forward to it eventually being built.

I do think that Bristol Sport is, however, an indication that SL is most passionate about Bristol itself rather than City specifically, and whilst I can understand people not being comfortable with that it does no make him a bad owner.

I think maybe what does need to change is the mindset of the club. Things like celebrating the anniversary of 4th round cup matches etc show what is essentially a 'small club' attitude and maybe we really need to start thinking of City as bigger than we are in order to really progress. Another symptom is over promoting club 'legends' such as Tinnion. With the changes that have happened over the last few years maybe that will change. We will see.

All finally though, I really do not believe you can say that the SL era has, to date, been a negative one.

Those are your views Rich, no probs at all.

i have a different one.  It’s not a wholly / totally negative one, but he’s tarnished things for me over the past 5-6 years.  And that irreparable for me.