FBC POD: 23/24 End of Season Review ft. Chris Honor & Richard Latham

[Marv Smyth]

RL did (very nicely) pick up on the point of goals, and (quite rightly) couldn’t see where there were going to come from in our current squad.  Also, like many, he pointed out that you can’t succeed if you keep getting rid of your best players, and don’t replace them! 

We don’t have that 20 goal in a season individual, which a decent club needs (although one (now missing) Austrian, was that guy not long back), and we certainly do not have two (or three) strikers in our squad capable of scoring 45 goals between them!

So far this season we have: Tommy with 9, JK with 7, SB with 5, NW with 4, and HC with 3……it is just not enough.

We do have goals coming from other areas too (RD with 5, MS with 5 which is great), but the current league table ‘goals for’ indicates that we are a team that is 25 to 30 goals (ish) away from being a play-offs contender/ side.

Whether we keep or lose any of our current strikers (I would love Tommy to stay (but I get that he probably won’t)), we need a new one, and we need a good one! 

[Guest]

The best contributors to any of the City related discussions are Chris and Gary Owers, the reason? They’ve both been there and done it so, far from fanciful nice to haves, they are realistic about our team without going overboard.

As fans we have our opinions and views, the more outrageous of which tend to get the headlines, but it’s clear to me neither of those guys think Manning is going to take us forward.

SL really has screwed up this time, he’s going to throw some cash at the club to try and resolve the problem, and we are tearing up the work put in by the previous coaching set up and starting again, until that fails etc, etc.

Often people say ‘he’s taken us as far as he can’’, sound familiar? Well that’s the Lansdowns.

I genuinely fear a relegation battle next season, and hope and pray I’m wrong.

[Sir Geoff]

Just finished listening and thought RL was a bit contradictory in what he wants. i.e happy for LM to still be here in 3 years, but hates watching sideways and backwards passing.

Can't have both I'm afraid Richard. Do you want Manning and his style of football, or not.

Dave, why do you keep suggesting an older / experienced head in the dug out. Why not remove the cause of the problem and have that person as Head Coach / Manager. No point LM being there if the in game decisions are being made by someone else.

[Numero Uno]

3 hours ago, REDOXO said:

The ineptitude is quite staggering on the face of it. 

The sacking of the CEO

No one as the public face of the club. A Chairman who really doesn’t want to deal with fans and the media and won’t unless he absolutely has to

A Technical Director who recommend a manager with no experience at being anything else than someone else’s assistant coach except a failed stint at MK which if I’m not mistaken got them relegated eventually and HALF a season at Oxford that had them challenging for a play off spot. 
 

That same Head Coach brought in to take over from……blah blah blah… I could go on and on. 
 

Everything at the club is beyond incompetence. It’s as if someone wants to destroy everything that has been built since 2015.

The appointment of Johnson followed by Holden were bizarre. The appointment of Manning over Pearson and then the firing of all Pearson’s staff is utterly stupefying.

Who the hell is calling the shots here? Why do we as supporters keep showing up to watch a side that does nothing but bear the name of the club we have all supported since children?

The only thing I can think of is blind loyalty to an institution that only exists in our heads. 
 

Just rename the club My Money My Choice FC and let’s be done with it!

Great post. The thing I can’t fathom is had we left the previous regime in situ, maybe Nige at home recovering, and finished mid table (not even a guarantee with Binary Boy in charge) and renewed his contract there would have been pressure to do better next season BUT from a higher starting point and a fraction of the fan discontent imo.

I am absolutely certain, 100%, that with some funds released Nige would have attracted a far better calibre of player here than Manning can. I will be amazed if we aren’t shopping at Aldi in the summer tbh, lower league “talent” (aka punts, that’s why they have played so many games at that level without being scouted by better clubs than us) blocking the pathway for our own. Unless Manning starts pulling rabbits out of hats or unless we make an inspired managerial change, next season has potential disaster written all over it.

[Tim Monaghan]

Hit the nail on the head. We are a mid-table side finishing mid-table. Nothing more to see here really. 

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Marv Smyth said:

RL did (very nicely) pick up on the point of goals, and (quite rightly) couldn’t see where there were going to come from in our current squad.  Also, like many, he pointed out that you can’t succeed if you keep getting rid of your best players, and don’t replace them! 

We don’t have that 20 goal in a season individual, which a decent club needs (although one (now missing) Austrian, was that guy not long back), and we certainly do not have two (or three) strikers in our squad capable of scoring 45 goals between them!

So far this season we have: Tommy with 9, JK with 7, SB with 5, NW with 4, and HC with 3……it is just not enough.

We do have goals coming from other areas too (RD with 5, MS with 5 which is great), but the current league table ‘goals for’ indicates that we are a team that is 25 to 30 goals (ish) away from being a play-offs contender/ side.

Whether we keep or lose any of our current strikers (I would love Tommy to stay (but I get that he probably won’t)), we need a new one, and we need a good one! 

A lot of it comes from intent. At times we show there is goals in the team, but with the squad we have, scoring more will likely come at the expense of conceding more too.

If our default under Manning continues to be to go into a block as soon as we lose possession, then we are really gonna see games like recently where we are at the whim of taking a low percentage chance or scoring from a set-piece. And if we concede first, little way back.

Not exactly thrilling is it?  

 

[W-S-M Seagull]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

A lot of it comes from intent. At times we show there is goals in the team, but with the squad we have, scoring more will likely come at the expense of conceding more too.

If our default under Manning continues to be to go into a block as soon as we lose possession, then we are really gonna see games like recently where we are at the whim of taking a low percentage chance or scoring from a set-piece. And if we concede first, little way back.

Not exactly thrilling is it?  

 

It's bizarre Dave. 

Firstly it was stated we wanted to press etc. 

We now block. 

Players like Tommy are good at pressing. By pressing you can force a team into a mistake, pinch the ball off of them etc. Even if you don't win the ball from the cb, you force them into getting the ball forward and then you can try and win that. 

Why we've decided to shut off the possibility of scoring from pressing I really can't get my head around. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

Watched about 7 and a half mins so far.

Latham raises some good points but doesn't understand the Financial Regulatory landscape very well. He also says half the division are in receipt of Parachute Payments which is outright incorrect. It's 5 clubs.

We could've afforded to keep one of Webster or Kelly for longer yes.

We don't have the balance right but it doesn't help when respected journalists put out on a Podcast misleading (unintentionally) or incorrect statements.

Edited March 24 by Mr Popodopolous

[Sir Geoff]

19 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Watched about 7 and a half mins so far.

Latham raises some good points but doesn't understand the Financial Regulatory landscape very well. He also says half the division are in receipt of Parachute Payments which is outright incorrect. It's 5 clubs.

We could've afforded to keep one of Webster or Kelly for longer yes.

We don't have the balance right but it doesn't help when respected journalists put out on a Podcast misleading (unintentionally) or incorrect statements.

Don't get his negativity that we never had anything but a mid table team. Now talking about 'marquee' signings and spending half the Scott money. No fan wanted that. A sensible transfer strategy last summer using a quarter of the Scott money would have had us in the top1 10/8, still with a chance of the play offs imo.

[Mr Popodopolous]

12 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

Don't get his negativity that we never had anything but a mid table team. Now talking about 'marquee' signings and spending half the Scott money. No fan wanted that. A sensible transfer strategy last summer using a quarter of the Scott money would have had us in the top1 10/8, still with a chance of the play offs imo.

Latham reckons £12m of the £25m Scott money should've been spent. I'm inclined to agree in all honesty, however early on, his position seems not the most consistent. He also ssid we were very close to breaking limits, I supoose he would know given his contacts. 

I do agree with you, 2 or 3 more in post Scott to ice the cake maybe.

[Davefevs]

3 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Latham reckons £12m of the £25m Scott money should've been spent. I'm inclined to agree in all honesty, however early on, his position seems not the most consistent. He also ssid we were very close to breaking limits, I supoose he would know given his contacts. 

I do agree with you, 2 or 3 more in post Scott to ice the cake maybe.

It wasn’t £25m, it was £20m.

[Numero Uno]

22 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

Don't get his negativity that we never had anything but a mid table team. Now talking about 'marquee' signings and spending half the Scott money. No fan wanted that. A sensible transfer strategy last summer using a quarter of the Scott money would have had us in the top1 10/8, still with a chance of the play offs imo.

At no point were we approaching a consistent play-off chasing team imo and that is why Nige started getting prickly. He knew that was the "unhinged" expectation from both the Crayon Kid and Sid so basically said "you've just sold my best player so let me have some money to replace him". That never happened because the Crayon Kid and Sid thought we were a play off chasing squad anyway. Went well didn't it? The evidence suggests to me, so far, that a solid, counter attacking mid-table squad is being morphed into a relegation fighting squad very quickly. No cherry picking - 26 points in 23 games is lower mid table to relegation fighting. 21 from 15 prior to the Tactics Board taking over suggests we were very comfortable mid-table. That's this seasons stats in a nutshell with no cherry picking. If we cherry pick over three months it looks ******* dismal for Binary Boy.

Edited March 24 by Numero Uno

[Mr Popodopolous]

3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

It wasn’t £25m, it was £20m.

Maybe revise the £12m down to £9.5-10m then.

Just seems there is an air of malaise right now. Can only speak for myself but not inspired, not confident, not especially enthused.

Edited March 24 by Mr Popodopolous

[W-S-M Seagull]

22 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

Don't get his negativity that we never had anything but a mid table team. Now talking about 'marquee' signings and spending half the Scott money. No fan wanted that. A sensible transfer strategy last summer using a quarter of the Scott money would have had us in the top1 10/8, still with a chance of the play offs imo.

Worse than that he said he had us down to struggle this season which I think he is the only fan to have thought that. 

I think there is probably some revisionism going on there to make it seem that Manning isn't doing that bad of a job. 

 

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

Latham talking about "back to basics"??

I'm 26 mins in, are we sure. Definitely seems like Expectation Management.

[Numero Uno]

1 minute ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Worse than that he said he had us down to struggle this season which I think he is the only fan to have thought that. 

I think there is probably some revisionism going on there to make it seem that Manning isn't doing that bad of a job. 

 

 

It doesn't matter which way you slice the cake, the comments made by the hierarchy have bitten them on the arse. If you honestly believe we could have had a tilt at promotion this season (I really don't without Nige being given funds) then they've made a terrible managerial pick, pretty much as bad as it could be. Otherwise only two options exist - they are either deluded or were being untruthful to fans on their reasoning for removing Nige.

Whether anyone in the local media will have the balls to ask them awkward questions, on topics that many fans would be interested in hearing the clubs views on, directly at the end of the season I very much doubt. It's one thing to go on a podcast or SOTC and start spraying veiled criticism all over the shop but when there is a chance you might lose your press pass if you ask them directly in press conferences and the like, all the previous bravery seems to all dissolve very quickly in this neck of the woods.

[Sir Geoff]

1 minute ago, Numero Uno said:

It doesn't matter which way you slice the cake, the comments made by the hierarchy have bitten them on the arse. If you honestly believe we could have had a tilt at promotion this season (I really don't without Nige being given funds) then they've made a terrible managerial pick, pretty much as bad as it could be. Otherwise only two options exist - they are either deluded or were being untruthful to fans on their reasoning for removing Nige.

Whether anyone in the local media will have the balls to ask them awkward questions, on topics that many fans would be interested in hearing the clubs views on, directly at the end of the season I very much doubt. It's one thing to go on a podcast or SOTC and start spraying veiled criticism all over the shop but when there is a chance you might lose your press pass if you ask them directly in press conferences and the like, all the previous bravery seems to all dissolve very quickly in this neck of the woods.

Yes RL came across very pro Manning but ended by saying he hated the style of football. Weird.....or still 'in with the Lansdowns.'

[Numero Uno]

5 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Latham talking about "back to basics"??

I'm 26 mins in, are we sure. Definitely seems like Expectation Management.

That seems to be the solution of the hierarchy to everything right now. "What message can we ask friendly faces to put across?" rather than "What are we actually going to do?". We've employed Soundbiters not Do'ers at the very top of the football operation. That will get you so far for so long and then time catches up with you, especially when a large chunk of the fanbase can see through it and ain't having it..

Just now, Sir Geoff said:

Yes RL came across very pro Manning but ended by saying he hated the style of football. Weird.....or still 'in with the Lansdowns.'

Latter imo. He's not saying 100% of his thoughts.

[Davefevs]

28 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

At no point were we approaching a consistent play-off chasing team imo and that is why Nige started getting prickly. He knew that was the "unhinged" expectation from both the Crayon Kid and Sid so basically said "you've just sold my best player so let me have some money to replace him". That never happened because the Crayon Kid and Sid thought we were a play off chasing squad anyway. Went well didn't it? The evidence suggests to me, so far, that a solid, counter attacking mid-table squad is being morphed into a relegation fighting squad very quickly. No cherry picking - 26 points in 23 games is lower mid table to relegation fighting. 21 from 15 prior to the Tactics Board taking over suggests we were very comfortable mid-table. That's this seasons stats in a nutshell with no cherry picking. If we cherry pick over three months it looks ******* dismal for Binary Boy.

Whilst I don’t think we’d have hit the play-offs this season under Nige, I thought we’d be in the mix of teams deep into the season, probably bemoaning “this game and that”, a bit of “ifs, buts and maybes” that we were never really gonna be a serious contender.  That was with the squad we ended the summer window with.

Had we added one or two in late August, then we might’ve gone closer.

I still think this was always a season of progress, which we were doing , not a realistic chance.  A season to check the plan, check it again, make minor adjustments here and there, identify who really was able to be a play off player.

Then 24/25 was the real tilt.  No need to go mad, just build on what we had, use a bit more of the Scott money that would allow us to enter the windows proactively.

The squad as you say was a solid, counterattacking, relatively high pressing team…that opponents didn’t like playing.  A touch of quality here and there was all that was needed.  A bit smarter in possession, a bit more clinical on the counter.

Were we really any different to a plethora of clubs in the top half outside of the PP clubs?

Now we look a million miles away.

Thanks to an idiotic decision / set of decisions.

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

Honor says (still watching) £15-18m in expenditure would only scrape the barrel. Is that plausible not least with FFP and FFI this coming season?

[Mr Popodopolous]

The Harford and Ward recollection was interesting but I would question the choice of Harford considering..

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/harford-resigns-as-qpr-manager-1201401.html

A team similarly struggling at the bottom, resigns after less than a year there and Ward chose him?

Perhaps he was a very good coach but a manager of questionable quality Idk.

Edited March 24 by Mr Popodopolous

[Davefevs]

6 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

The Harford and Ward recollection was interesting but I would question the choice of Harford considering..

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/harford-resigns-as-qpr-manager-1201401.html

A team similarly struggling at the bottom, resigns after less than a year there and Ward chose him?

Perhaps he was a very good coach but a manager of questionable quality Idk.

Ask Kenny Dalglish about Ray Harford - the no2.

Ward didn’t want him as a manager….so what he did as a manager is pretty irrelevant.

[Mr Popodopolous]

5 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Ask Kenny Dalglish about Ray Harford - the no2.

Ward didn’t want him as a manager….so what he did as a manager is pretty irrelevant.

Yeah I don't know much about Harford (RIP) tbh. The Ward changeover was pretty much at the start of my time supporting, what could've been eh...but then we've tried many things as a club in my time and none have quite worked ie got us to that last step.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Interesting Podcast but hasn't changed my views that barring a major and swift yet appearing to be sustainable turnaround in results, performances and confidence Manning should leave. Tinnion and Jon Lansdown too ideally..

Can't really see the grounds for confidence.

[Numero Uno]

10 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Interesting Podcast but hasn't changed my views that barring a major and swift yet appearing to be sustainable turnaround in results, performances and confidence Manning should leave. Tinnion and Jon Lansdown too ideally..

Can't really see the grounds for confidence.

The bit I don’t get is assuming we lose one or two such as Conway, even Pring, get rid of the experience in our squad and replace it with 90-120 game lower league players (that’s what the Technical Director has said) how do we become a possession dominant level team at Championship level that ALSO turns that possession into chances and wins?

For the posters on here who say “give Manning a window then see” I would be happy if that could be explained. How is it going to pan out? The only way I see it happening is to buy good CHAMPIONSHIP players, yet another new cunning plan, and I’m not sure they will come under this manager. Somebody make it make sense!!

Edited March 24 by Numero Uno

[Numero Uno]

The other issue on Lathams point about a marquee signing, if I was that player and Sid approaches me and terms won’t be an issue my next question is “who else are you bringing in?”.

”Well, we’ve got a lad from St Patrick’s Athletic, another one from Aldershot, oh and Max Bird, you might have heard of him. Plus we are scouring divisions 3 and 4 for some more good 100 game players”.

I think my answer might be “cheers Ledge but I’ve also got Norwich, Sunderland and West Brom interested. Think I might take one of those. Thanks again”.

[Mr Popodopolous]

15 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

The other issue on Lathams point about a marquee signing, if I was that player and Sid approaches me and terms won’t be an issue my next question is “who else are you bringing in?”.

”Well, we’ve got a lad from St Patrick’s Athletic, another one from Aldershot, oh and Max Bird, you might have heard of him. Plus we are scouring divisions 3 and 4 for some more good 100 game players”.

I think my answer might be “cheers Ledge but I’ve also got Norwich, Sunderland and West Brom interested. Think I might take one of those. Thanks again”.

Hull otoh Idk it is hard to say, look at the players they've added this year- had to start somewhere Ipswich I don't think have an amazing squad.

Philogene, Tufan- then loans or otherwise they've built and built Omur, Delap, Carvalho  Giles all on loan. There is a certain energy and excitement there yet their starting point was 18th in 2021-22. Morton another loanee.

For a non-Parachute club that is quite stellar in places.

[GrahamC]

1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Honor says (still watching) £15-18m in expenditure would only scrape the barrel. Is that plausible not least with FFP and FFI this coming season?

Don’t think so for a minute.

Before you factor in Conway staying or not, my hunch is we’re looking at a maximum spend of £7m, split exactly on a new striker & a number 10 (whether that’s Twine or not).

Having brought in Bird my guess is that we will only make one other signing, a back up keeper with greater first team experience than Bajic, (probably someone out of contract).

If Conway goes then £2.5m to £3m would be spent to replace him.

Edited March 24 by GrahamC

[Numero Uno]

Just now, Mr Popodopolous said:

Hull otoh Idk it is hard to say, look at the players they've added this year- had to start somewhere Ipswich I don't think have an amazing squad.

Philogene, Tufan- then loans or otherwise they've built and built Omur, Delap, Carvalho  Giles all on loan. There is a certain energy and excitement there yet their starting point was 18th in 2021-22. Morton another loanee.

For a non-Parachute club that is quite stellar in places.

You have to sell the club to decent players, in the face of competition, and to do that you need a coherent plan. They won’t be interested in 30% homegrown minutes, they will want to know what we’re doing to turn ourselves from lower mid table into play off contenders. Otherwise they’ll just go to a club they deem to be a real contender.

[Davefevs]

26 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

The bit I don’t get is assuming we lose one or two such as Conway, even Pring, get rid of the experience in our squad and replace it with 90-120 game lower league players (that’s what the Technical Director has said) how do we become a possession dominant level team at Championship level that ALSO turns that possession into chances and wins?

For the posters on here who say “give Manning a window then see” I would be happy if that could be explained. How is it going to pan out? The only way I see it happening is to buy good CHAMPIONSHIP players, yet another new cunning plan, and I’m not sure they will come under this manager. Somebody make it make sense!!

This is where your strategy has to evolve as the scenario changes.

Last summer is different to this summer.

Last summer, you can put out a soundbite of “100-150 games in Lg1” (or whatever it was) if you know your targets are:

- Jason Knight who was at Derby due to their financial issues, who had 100 games at this level

- Ross McCrorie who has 150 SPL appearances and some experience down south

and are gonna be supplemented by:

- Joe Bryan on a free (quickly pivoted to Haydon Roberts also on a free)

- Jake O’Brien to add that big ball winner to your back line options (went to Lyon, quickly pivoted to Rob Dickie for £600k)

…and are ready to flex if / when Alex Scott is sold.

It remains to be seen how this summer shapes up.  They have the Scott money still, they’ve got Bird as another player from Lg1 with 100 championship appearances.  If we start going down that route with no / little championship experience then we are gonna have to get it spot on.

Has Manning sussed out the levels required?

But I don’t really want to hear Tinnion spouting the sane mantra as last summer.

Last summer is different to this summer.

Azaz / Twine show some hope that they need players of that quality.

I will watch with interest.