FBC POD: 23/24 End of Season Review ft. Chris Honor & Richard Latham

[headhunter]

With no match this weekend DaveP took the opportunity to chew the cud on all matters Bristol City with former player Chris and respected local journalist Richard.

Premature to be having an end of season review? Not really with nothing but pride to play for over the next 5 weeks.

Lots of topics covered with Richard very much in the "be careful what you wish for" camp for those who say SL should move on but tempering that by saying the purse strings need to be relaxed in the summer with a marquee signing.

Neither Richard or Chris feel Liam's position is at risk although there was some agreement with DaveP's suggestion that Liam could do with some help in the dugout  - no disrespect to Hoggy but he doesn't have a playing record of note whilst Manning knowledge is out of a coaching manual!

[Also on Spotify etc.]

 

[GeoTheCiderHead]

A really enjoyable listen (as the vast majority of episodes are). The minute I saw that Richard Latham was on it, I just knew it was going to be a good one. The bloke oozes class and talks nothing but sense. A shame you can’t get him on a little more often throughout the season. 

[marmite]

Richard Latham has been guest speaker at Senior Reds on numerous occasions.  Always a great listen and some great insights into the club although not so much recently. Guy talks lots of sense about football. 

[GrahamC]

Like Latham a lot but he won’t accept any criticism whatsoever of Lansdown, however valid.

Times have moved on & SL needs to sell up.

[Street red]

16 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Like Latham a lot but he won’t accept any criticism whatsoever of Lansdown, however valid.

Times have moved on & SL needs to sell up.

I agree latham does speak sense but I'm not sure why people keep defending the Lansdowns I'm almost bored of hearing we need to stick with it or we need a marquee signing  blah blah actually it's gone past tiresome and we've gone back to the LJ days and saying manning needs a experienced number 2 it's constant history repeat. They haven't learnt and they never will.

Edited March 23 by Street red

[M.D]

40 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Like Latham a lot but he won’t accept any criticism whatsoever of Lansdown, however valid.

Times have moved on & SL needs to sell up.

 

24 minutes ago, Street red said:

I agree latham does speak sense but I'm not sure why people keep defending the Lansdowns I'm almost bored of hearing we need to stick with it or we need a marquee signing  blah blah actually it's gone past tiresome and we've gone back to the LJ days and saying manning needs a experienced number 2 it's constant history repeat. They haven't learnt and they never will.

Same here, I do like Latham but not sure I agree that we would be at Rovers level with a ramshackle ground without SL and family.

Said it before, his biggest mistake is not employing the best people he can in key roles at the club but it does seem he doesn't really want those kind of people involved..

[2015]

1 hour ago, GrahamC said:

Like Latham a lot but he won’t accept any criticism whatsoever of Lansdown, however valid.

Times have moved on & SL needs to sell up.

Agree. Other than that, he was spot on about most of the rest especially the style of football these days.

[GeoTheCiderHead]

1 hour ago, GrahamC said:

Like Latham a lot but he won’t accept any criticism whatsoever of Lansdown, however valid.

Times have moved on & SL needs to sell up.

Agreed. The only point I disagreed with him on. 

[REDOXO]

I’m sure Mr Manning feels his position is at risk. 

[W-S-M Seagull]

I've got to say that with one being a current club employee and the other being a former club employee, I struggled to take anything they said seriously. 

I think Latham is very much stuck in the past with regards to football and his defence of Lansdown his former boss did him no favours. 

 

[headhunter]

15 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

I've got to say that with one being a current club employee and the other being a former club employee, I struggled to take anything they said seriously. 

I think Latham is very much stuck in the past with regards to football and his defence of Lansdown his former boss did him no favours. 

 

Hope you didn't waste your time listening for the full hour then! 

[Would've expected a comment from you that it was an Ian GAY free episode if it was nothing else]

[Sir Geoff]

Don't tell me Headhunter was banging the 'He needs an experienced old head guiding him." drum. 

What about he took the job, knew the circumstances that the last guy was sacked and the reasons behind it. His remit would have been clear from day one. Improve the league position as we want promotion this season. If he's not up to the eff off.

[Kid in the Riot]

A worthwhile listen but Richard Latham's views are pretty outdated, particularly regards "marquee" signings and his aversion to DoFs. 

His most interesting comment was when he hinted that Jon doesn't really want to be in his current role.

Agree with that. Jon would much prefer there to be a DoF or CEO that could take the limelight/heat away from him.

Which makes the decision by his Dad to plunge him back into such an important, public-facing role all the more bizarre and frankly irresponsible.

[W-S-M Seagull]

13 minutes ago, headhunter said:

Hope you didn't waste your time listening for the full hour then! 

[Would've expected a comment from you that it was an Ian GAY free episode if it was nothing else]

Haha well their biased views were no different to Ians biased views

Yea I did listen to the whole hour as international break Saturdays are always boring. 

I just felt as if Lathams footballing views are quite outdated these days. For example he mentioned how in this modern day fans and clubs don't give managers time like the old days and that we should stick with Manning because of that. I don't understand why Bristol City should be any different to any other club. If its not working its not working.

This is why we are known as 'little Bristol City' because in many ways we are stuck in the past. Many Championship clubs would have got rid of Manning by now. 

[Numero Uno]

3 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Haha well their biased views were no different to Ians biased views

Yea I did listen to the whole hour as international break Saturdays are always boring. 

I just felt as if Lathams footballing views are quite outdated these days. For example he mentioned how in this modern day fans and clubs don't give managers time like the old days and that we should stick with Manning because of that. I don't understand why Bristol City should be any different to any other club. If its not working its not working.

This is why we are known as 'little Bristol City' because in many ways we are stuck in the past. Many Championship clubs would have got rid of Manning by now. 

The problem with sticking with the manager is that he hasn't shown us bar the odd game here and there (and most of those were generally playing on the counter) what we can "look forward to". If he's got eight games to save himself then we need to see five or six PERFORMANCES in there and I don't count a pig ugly win like Swansea. If he can't produce that now then why will that change next season with some more bodies but some leaving too? What genuine Championship quality that could make that difference will come and sign for us at the moment?

My gut feel, unfortunately, is in our next three matches we will be treated to three more "low block" start with a point and try and finish with a point type tactical masterclasses, only opening up a bit if we make a mistake and go behind.

[Davefevs]

42 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

A worthwhile listen but Richard Latham's views are pretty outdated, particularly regards "marquee" signings and his aversion to DoFs. 

His most interesting comment was when he hinted that Jon doesn't really want to be in his current role.

Agree with that. Jon would much prefer there to be a DoF or CEO that could take the limelight/heat away from him.

Which makes the decision by his Dad to plunge him back into such an important, public-facing role all the more bizarre and frankly irresponsible.

Jon’s role hasn’t changed has it?  Still Chairman, isn’t he?  In City history of recent times, Chairman hasn’t been high-profile, Jon’s been able to stay in the background.

Why isn’t Tinnion (sort of DoF) taking the heat off of him?  Ok, he is public-facing, although not great at it!

Why isn’t Marshall (Group CEO) taking the heat off of him?

So that he can stay in his comfort-zone.

[GrahamC]

1 hour ago, headhunter said:

Hope you didn't waste your time listening for the full hour then! 

[Would've expected a comment from you that it was an Ian GAY free episode if it was nothing else]

I thought it was very good & your questions helped, though I’m not sure there was much support for your suggestion of an experienced assistant.

Latham is a little dated with some of what he says, such as 2 wingers in a 4-4-2 & the tall bloke, fast bloke stuff & he never ever misses an opportunity to say John Ward got a poor deal, but he speaks with considerable credibility having followed the club for so long.

There was also a lot of civility on display, no one talking over other contributors & others’ opinions being respected, see it can be done..

[Kid in the Riot]

17 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Jon’s role hasn’t changed has it?  Still Chairman, isn’t he?  In City history of recent times, Chairman hasn’t been high-profile, Jon’s been able to stay in the background.

Why isn’t Tinnion (sort of DoF) taking the heat off of him?  Ok, he is public-facing, although not great at it!

Why isn’t Marshall (Group CEO) taking the heat off of him?

So that he can stay in his comfort-zone.

His job title hasn't changed, Dave. But his role i.e. what he actually does and is responsible for has evidently changed since the departures of Gould/Alexander/Nige. 

Because in at least two of those three, you are losing experienced men with gravitas that can speak on behalf of the club.

Now we have Tins and Jon! And Tins certainly can't be relied upon to perform a similar spokesperson role to that of a Gould or Nige. 

Plus, the loss of those men means Jon is naturally expected to be more about the place to help fill the vacuum. 

I think Richard Latham is right, Jon probably had one foot in Bermuda and now he's been called back by Steve to deal with a shitstorm. 

That's the point I'm making. 

Edited March 23 by Kid in the Riot

[The turtle]

I kmow this might sound a bit crazy.

But instead of getting help. Maybe just maybe we need a manager who had ideas which closely resemble the fan base.

Chris got it, when you've got a chance to get it forward... You take it.

When you've got space infront of you, attack it.

As I've said before, it took my wife one single city game to identify the way the crowd pushes the team forward, demands it infact. She loved that about our club.... As an aside the other thing she knows; around 1745 (Spain time) I'm normally annoyed as city conceded a last minute goal. (True it happens less now)

This is why despite the fact we did actually beat swansea, most were Just like! No no no. The football on the pitch doesn't represent who we as a fanbase are.

LM has an ideology that is simply alien to us. He won't change, it's his career so nor should he. Fact is however, we haven't played a single game this season playing patient build up football, played well and won, how many time have we played his way and enjoyed it? I can't think of any.

The club we don't name, and Watford away both were built on high energy, pressing yet break at speed football.

What's the point in getting someone in to help him? There is nothing to add. He'll still bore us to tears. And the best days won't make the bad ones worth it.

Whoever they get; and i really don't care who, they need to get us, who we are and the football we expect.

For that you need 3 things.  Intent, aggression and emotion. Everything manning just isn't.

GJ and COTTs were successful because they got it. They did it differently, but they got it. Neither were perfect, but they got the sense of adventure absolutely any city fan needs.

He has to go, he will go sooner or later. No help is going to help him. I truly he hope he learns, and understands the importance of researching fanbase first. Knowing which will be patient and which won't. He could easily be next at the club we don't name, swansea, etc etc.  i wish him nothing but success in football he seems knowledgeable and decent, but at city he's simply the wrong man, in the wrong time at the wrong club.

 

 

 

[Davefevs]

13 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

His job title hasn't changed, Dave. But his role i.e. what he actually does and is responsible for has evidently changed since the departures of Gould/Alexander/Nige. 

Because in at least two of those three, you are losing experienced men with gravitas that can speak on behalf of the club.

Now we have Tins and Jon! And Tins certainly can't be relied upon to perform a similar spokesperson role to that of a Gould or Nige. 

Plus, the loss of those men means Jon is naturally expected to be more about the place to help fill the vacuum. 

I think Richard Latham is right, Jon probably had one foot in Bermuda and now he's been called back by Steve to deal with a shitstorm. 

That's the point I'm making. 

Yeah, I know, just highlighting the incompetence across the “board” (no pun intended).

What a shit-show!

[W-S-M Seagull]

1 hour ago, Numero Uno said:

The problem with sticking with the manager is that he hasn't shown us bar the odd game here and there (and most of those were generally playing on the counter) what we can "look forward to". If he's got eight games to save himself then we need to see five or six PERFORMANCES in there and I don't count a pig ugly win like Swansea. If he can't produce that now then why will that change next season with some more bodies but some leaving too? What genuine Championship quality that could make that difference will come and sign for us at the moment?

My gut feel, unfortunately, is in our next three matches we will be treated to three more "low block" start with a point and try and finish with a point type tactical masterclasses, only opening up a bit if we make a mistake and go behind.

I think it's rather reckless to think "well every other club sacks managers when things are not going well so we're going to buck the trend and back this horse"

I think that is a small club mentality and it's not high performance. 

With respect to Latham, he was part of this club when things were even more amateur off the pitch. 

It just seems like he has a romantic view of football and that Bristol City should do things differently to every other club. 

I didn't like how he suggested that we should just be happy with where we are because he thought we would struggle in this league this season and that we don't have a good squad and that he thinks that where we are is the best we could have hoped to achieve. 

That small time attitude is astounding. I'm not sure we will find many Bristol City fans that agree with him on that, even Mannings biggest apologists. I'm not suggesting we should be getting promoted but we are certainly better than what Manning has delivered since Christmas which has been nothing short of abysmal. 

This setting up to not lose is pathetic. 

 

Edited March 23 by W-S-M Seagull

[exAtyeoMax]

3 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

His job title hasn't changed, Dave. But his role i.e. what he actually does and is responsible for has evidently changed since the departures of Gould/Alexander/Nige. 

Because in at least two of those three, you are losing experienced men with gravitas that can speak on behalf of the club.

Now we have Tins and Jon! And Tins certainly can't be relied upon to perform a similar spokesperson role to that of a Gould or Nige. 

Plus, the loss of those men means Jon is naturally expected to be more about the place to help fill the vacuum. 

I think Richard Latham is right, Jon probably had one foot in Bermuda and now he's been called back by Steve to deal with a shitstorm. 

That's the point I'm making. 

which he made worse?

 

Edited March 23 by exAtyeoMax

[bexhill reds]

13 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

I've got to say that with one being a current club employee and the other being a former club employee, I struggled to take anything they said seriously. 

I think Latham is very much stuck in the past with regards to football and his defence of Lansdown his former boss did him no favours. 

 

Not sure that Chris Honor is a club employee other than the occasional appearance fee so I imagine he’s got scope to post his own opinion and I think he’s usually very balanced. Likewise Richard Latham might not be so close to today’s club as such, but his experience of being a local football journalist who reported on City for years and knows the Lansdown’s should not be dismissed as it could be a good indication on the thoughts of the inner sanctum.

To my mind it was an interesting episode with some good points made.

Clearly not for you as I suspect you’d have only enjoyed it if there it was 50 minute echo session for your current perspective.

Sometimes it’s good to have your own views questioned or at least another opinion put in front of you.

[johnbytheriver]

Great podcast as usual but when you listen to people who know what they are talikng about(wise old heads with good bcfc football knowledge)its also quite depressing to realise we are going nowhere fast.

Edited March 24 by johnbytheriver
omitted a letter

[REDOXO]

12 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Yeah, I know, just highlighting the incompetence across the “board” (no pun intended).

What a shit-show!

The ineptitude is quite staggering on the face of it. 

The sacking of the CEO

No one as the public face of the club. A Chairman who really doesn’t want to deal with fans and the media and won’t unless he absolutely has to

A Technical Director who recommend a manager with no experience at being anything else than someone else’s assistant coach except a failed stint at MK which if I’m not mistaken got them relegated eventually and HALF a season at Oxford that had them challenging for a play off spot. 
 

That same Head Coach brought in to take over from……blah blah blah… I could go on and on. 
 

Everything at the club is beyond incompetence. It’s as if someone wants to destroy everything that has been built since 2015.

The appointment of Johnson followed by Holden were bizarre. The appointment of Manning over Pearson and then the firing of all Pearson’s staff is utterly stupefying.

Who the hell is calling the shots here? Why do we as supporters keep showing up to watch a side that does nothing but bear the name of the club we have all supported since children?

The only thing I can think of is blind loyalty to an institution that only exists in our heads. 
 

Just rename the club My Money My Choice FC and let’s be done with it!

[GrahamC]

14 hours ago, Sir Geoff said:

Don't tell me Headhunter was banging the 'He needs an experienced old head guiding him." drum. 

What about he took the job, knew the circumstances that the last guy was sacked and the reasons behind it. His remit would have been clear from day one. Improve the league position as we want promotion this season. If he's not up to the eff off.

With the greatest of respect to @headhunter this isn’t how football usually works anyway.

Managers often tend to have their favoured assistant who follows them from club to club, Terry Connor & Mick McCarthy for instance, Chris Hogg (at MK & Oxford previously) is that man in Manning’s case, so he wouldn’t accept someone else instead, which also implies that they aren’t up to it.

The John Ward example quoted in the podcast shows this, once he said that he needed help, his goose was cooked.

Edited March 24 by GrahamC

[Galley is our king]

13 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

His job title hasn't changed, Dave. But his role i.e. what he actually does and is responsible for has evidently changed since the departures of Gould/Alexander/Nige. 

Because in at least two of those three, you are losing experienced men with gravitas that can speak on behalf of the club.

Now we have Tins and Jon! And Tins certainly can't be relied upon to perform a similar spokesperson role to that of a Gould or Nige. 

Plus, the loss of those men means Jon is naturally expected to be more about the place to help fill the vacuum. 

I think Richard Latham is right, Jon probably had one foot in Bermuda and now he's been called back by Steve to deal with a shitstorm. 

That's the point I'm making. 

A shitstorm of his own making.

[And Its Smith]

15 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

I've got to say that with one being a current club employee and the other being a former club employee, I struggled to take anything they said seriously. 

I think Latham is very much stuck in the past with regards to football and his defence of Lansdown his former boss did him no favours. 

 

Honor wasn’t towing the party line. He said he didn’t know if Manning has it in him to succeed and he said the board should stop insulting fans by selling us the dream that is never going to be realised.  I think it’s harsh to say because he is on Robins TV that he doesn’t make points that warrant being taken seriously 

[headhunter]

7 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

With the greatest of respect to @headhunter this isn’t how football usually works anyway.

Managers often tend to have their favoured assistant who follows them from club to club, Terry Connor & Mick McCarthy for instance, Chris Hogg (at MK & Oxford previously) is that man in Manning’s case, so he wouldn’t accept someone else instead, which also implies that they aren’t up to it.

The John Ward example quoted in the podcast shows this, once he said that he needed help, his goose was cooked.

You're probably right Graham regarding Ward, but look who we brought in - Benny!!

Hardly a "marquee signing" in foreign coaching terms and an early example of having the best intentions but with poor execution.

[exAtyeoMax]

44 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

The ineptitude is quite staggering on the face of it. 

The sacking of the CEO

No one as the public face of the club. A Chairman who really doesn’t want to deal with fans and the media and won’t unless he absolutely has to

A Technical Director who recommend a manager with no experience at being anything else than someone else’s assistant coach except a failed stint at MK which if I’m not mistaken got them relegated eventually and HALF a season at Oxford that had them challenging for a play off spot. 
 

That same Head Coach brought in to take over from……blah blah blah… I could go on and on. 
 

Everything at the club is beyond incompetence. It’s as if someone wants to destroy everything that has been built since 2015.

The appointment of Johnson followed by Holden were bizarre. The appointment of Manning over Pearson and then the firing of all Pearson’s staff is utterly stupefying.

Who the hell is calling the shots here? Why do we as supporters keep showing up to watch a side that does nothing but bear the name of the club we have all supported since children?

The only thing I can think of is blind loyalty to an institution that only exists in our heads. 
 

Just rename the club My Money My Choice FC and let’s be done with it!

It’s beyond comprehension