Classless Pep

[George Rs]

28 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Kane at 30 is a career bottle job. Won nothing. He even bottled moving to Man City. 

Haaland at 23 has won pretty much everything. 

Much better player than Haaland? please. 

That is the poorest argument to determine an individuals quality i’ve ever seen. 

If anything it adds to the argument that Kane is better.

In just last season, Kane had 30 league goals for spurs. A team who finished 8th, played with 3 different managers, one of which actively spoke down on the club whilst in charge. 

Haaland scored 36 (only 6 more) goals last season, 7 being penalties, in arguably one of the best sides in premier league history. 

By your logic Marc Albrighton is a better player then Heung-Min Son because he won the premier league and FA Cup with Leicester. 

An argument can be made that Haaland is a better goal scorer but he is no where near as good a footballer. 

[W-S-M Seagull]

32 minutes ago, George Rs said:

That is the poorest argument to determine an individuals quality i’ve ever seen. 

If anything it adds to the argument that Kane is better.

In just last season, Kane had 30 league goals for spurs. A team who finished 8th, played with 3 different managers, one of which actively spoke down on the club whilst in charge. 

Haaland scored 36 (only 6 more) goals last season, 7 being penalties, in arguably one of the best sides in premier league history. 

By your logic Marc Albrighton is a better player then Heung-Min Son because he won the premier league and FA Cup with Leicester. 

An argument can be made that Haaland is a better goal scorer but he is no where near as good a footballer. 

I'm sure Man City are very upset that their STRIKER isn't as good as a footballer. 

Kane has bottled it on every big occasion. Do they give out trophies for strikers that can drop into midfield? 

Kane is good, but he's not Erling Haaland good. 

If Haaland would have choose to play for England then Kane doesn't get in the team ahead of Haaland. 

 

 

[George Rs]

29 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

I'm sure Man City are very upset that their STRIKER isn't as good as a footballer. 

Kane has bottled it on every big occasion. Do they give out trophies for strikers that can drop into midfield? 

Kane is good, but he's not Erling Haaland good. 

If Haaland would have choose to play for England then Kane doesn't get in the team ahead of Haaland. 

 

 

My point was Kane is a better player, which he is. Haaland might beat him in raw finishing and positional awareness but nothing else. You put Harry Kane in that Man city team he does just as well, if not better imo.

And even though it has no actual relevance to a players ability suggesting Kane has “bottled it” on every big occasion is a moot point when Haaland has done the same. 

Haaland has played in 2 UCL semi-final legs, UCL final, Fa Cup final, Fa Cup Semi-Final, 2 Community shields and a Super Cup Final. All supposed big games. 8 Games 0 goals. 

 

Fun fact for you: In the entirety of Man city’s Fa Cup run last season, Haaland scored the same amount of goals in the tournament as Sam Bell. 

Edited April 3 by George Rs

[Kid in the Riot]

9 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

I don't like this arguement about how the lawyers are stalling progress. They are facing 115 charges. Look how long it took for Everton and Forest with just the one charge each? There will literally be 100s of thousands of pages of paperwork that need to be gone through. It's not stalling, these things just take time. It's also not as simple as the charges other clubs faced. They charges are very technical. 

It's not an "argument". It's a fact. Man City are paying their lawyers to stall the progress of the cases brought against them. 

Throughout the whole process Man City have sought to discredit the proceedings, hide information, and threaten journalists and the courts.

They've behaved appallingly, and not like other clubs who have mostly cooperated with the Premier League. 

They are banking on stalling the process for long enough so that they can win as much as possible before sanctions hit. 

They are also hoping for political intervention given their owners lead a country that is a UK ally. 

[spudski]

Without condoning it, it's probably the only way to compete against teams in Europe in the Champions league that throughout history are less than squeaky clean.

It's like trying to win the Tour de France without doping. 

[Davefevs]

 

[Cowshed]

4 hours ago, George Rs said:

My point was Kane is a better player, which he is. Haaland might beat him in raw finishing and positional awareness but nothing else. You put Harry Kane in that Man city team he does just as well, if not better imo.

 

You put Harry Kane in that Man City team and? He would have to play entirely differently. 

Haaland is pushed up very high. Haaland does not take much part in link up play. Haaland does not drop off into the zone where Foden and Du Bruyne are playing centrally, and the half spaces Bernardo Silva uses. 

Haaland plays up top on the last man for Man City and can run in behind with pace, he is properly quick and gives Man City extra options with an ability to utilise Edersons exceptional ability to distribute the ball at distances and accuracy that are remarkable.

Now do Harry Kane.  

[Ashtonboy]

10 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

 

An arrogant **** or brilliant motivator  , I don't know!

[Davefevs]

14 minutes ago, Ashtonboy said:

An arrogant **** or brilliant motivator  , I don't know!

Both!

[Markthehorn]

1 hour ago, spudski said:

Without condoning it, it's probably the only way to compete against teams in Europe in the Champions league that throughout history are less than squeaky clean.

It's like trying to win the Tour de France without doping. 

I do notice the other leagues now complain the Premier league is too powerful and has all the money .

[spudski]

36 minutes ago, Markthehorn said:

I do notice the other leagues now complain the Premier league is too powerful and has all the money .

Italy's big teams have been notorious over the years. It was hard to keep up with them and a few other big Continental teams. 

[supercidered]

3 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

It's not an "argument". It's a fact. Man City are paying their lawyers to stall the progress of the cases brought against them. 

Throughout the whole process Man City have sought to discredit the proceedings, hide information, and threaten journalists and the courts.

They've behaved appallingly, and not like other clubs who have mostly cooperated with the Premier League. 

They are banking on stalling the process for long enough so that they can win as much as possible before sanctions hit. 

They are also hoping for political intervention given their owners lead a country that is a UK ally. 

Before I respond to the post, I need to make clear that I hold no torch for Man City or any other Premier team.

Any business will employ lawyers to do what is best for their clients. Football is no different. None of us on here really know how many of these charges may or may not stick and if any do, what the punishment that is dished out will look like.

If they are stalling then they are because they can and because their lawyers are going to do everything they can to help the cause. As per the first sentence of this paragraph.

The cooperation point is more to do with the other clubs really had nowhere to hide. It was and is in plain sight. 

Whether we or anyone else likes it. Money makes the world go around. Business is Business and football these days is just that. Business.

[MarcusX]

7 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Kane at 30 is a career bottle job. Won nothing. He even bottled moving to Man City. 

Haaland at 23 has won pretty much everything. 

Much better player than Haaland? please. 

I think that's incredibly harsh, one player doesn't win trophies alone. He was in a fairly average Spurs side for too long and probably should have moved sooner if winning trophies was his goal.

In terms of the title race it's Liverpool for me. Proper team and fan base (even if some are idiots) and play the most exciting football even against the big teams. The City v Liverpool and City v Arsenal games were worlds apart.

[Natchfever]

1 hour ago, Markthehorn said:

I do notice the other leagues now complain the Premier league is too powerful and has all the money .

Yep.

Are PSG under investigation by their own authorities? So much less money in ligue 1 yet what must their wage bill have been ?

As for ffp, I think if you can demonstrate you can pay you should be able to.

Our owner has hidden behind ffp of course !

[2015]

7 hours ago, George Rs said:

That is the poorest argument to determine an individuals quality i’ve ever seen. 

If anything it adds to the argument that Kane is better.

In just last season, Kane had 30 league goals for spurs. A team who finished 8th, played with 3 different managers, one of which actively spoke down on the club whilst in charge. 

Haaland scored 36 (only 6 more) goals last season, 7 being penalties, in arguably one of the best sides in premier league history. 

By your logic Marc Albrighton is a better player then Heung-Min Son because he won the premier league and FA Cup with Leicester. 

An argument can be made that Haaland is a better goal scorer but he is no where near as good a footballer. 

Kane has 37 goals this season in 35 matches for Bayern Munich.

By comparison, Lewandowski who was previously at Bayern had a season high of 49 goals in 41 games, whilst playing in a better side.

I find it embarassing the English fans and media who choose to mock Kane, he's one of the best talents we've ever produced and could easily end up with over 50 goals this season at the rate he is scoring currently.

[AshtonGreat]

51 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

I think that's incredibly harsh, one player doesn't win trophies alone. He was in a fairly average Spurs side for too long and probably should have moved sooner if winning trophies was his goal.

In terms of the title race it's Liverpool for me. Proper team and fan base (even if some are idiots) and play the most exciting football even against the big teams. The City v Liverpool and City v Arsenal games were worlds apart.

What do you mean by proper team? No team has been better than Man City over the past few years

[downendcity]

41 minutes ago, Natchfever said:

Yep.

Are PSG under investigation by their own authorities? So much less money in ligue 1 yet what must their wage bill have been ?

As for ffp, I think if you can demonstrate you can pay you should be able to.

Our owner has hidden behind ffp of course !

A bit disingenuous Natch.

SL spent his business life working in the heavily regulated financial services sector, where for the majority of that time, and certainly when HL reached their market leading position, penalties for breaching the rules were severe, so compliance was a huge factor in the management of the business. 

I am pretty certain that he could not , and cannot now, abandon his attitude towards regulation compliance.  I've commented before that, with the benefit of hindsight, I think that when it was first mooted, SL foresaw the impact that ffp would have on clubs and it was this that prompted his strategy to make the club more self sufficient. That was widely derided on here, with many fans seeing it as an excuse for the owner no longer being prepared to put his hand in his pocket - it would probably qualify as hiding behind ffp, as you put it, in fans' eyes.

With hindsight perhaps SL has been proven right, and we've been lucky to have such a careful owner, given what we have seen with the likes of Derby and Reading and are now increasingly seeing with even premier league clubs being penalised for breaching financial rules.

Interestingly, rather than hiding behind ffp, SL used ffp rules to benefit the club financially in the long term . While ffp limits how much an owner is allowed to put into a club directly for transfers , wages and the like ( not forgetting that SL is putting £20+m a year into BCFC just to keep us going) he recognised areas that ffp does allow an owner to invest without breaching ffp. That is why we have the revamped stadium and the HPC. 

Having been redeveloped, AG now generates more income, and especially on  non matchdays than did the old stadium, and that additional income can be used towards investment in the team, player wages etc. Similarly, the HPC is important in helping the club's academy. Better facilities attract better young players, the success of academy players like Kelly, Semenyo, Scott, Pring, Vyner, Conway, Bell etc, breaking into the first team only reinforces that, and they all cost nothing in transfer fees. Also, and as we well know, the sell on fees when academy players move on add massively to the clubs financial position.

All of that because, rather than hiding behind ffp, SL has put his hand in his pocket to invest huge amount as ffp does allow, to generate money for the club that ffp would not have allowed him to invest directly.

There are plenty of things and decision we might like to blame SL for, but I don't think hiding behind ffp is one of those. 

 

 

[Natchfever]

4 minutes ago, downendcity said:

A bit disingenuous Natch.

SL spent his business life working in the heavily regulated financial services sector, where for the majority of that time, and certainly when HL reached their market leading position, penalties for breaching the rules were severe, so compliance was a huge factor in the management of the business. 

I am pretty certain that he could not , and cannot now, abandon his attitude towards regulation compliance.  I've commented before that, with the benefit of hindsight, I think that when it was first mooted, SL foresaw the impact that ffp would have on clubs and it was this that prompted his strategy to make the club more self sufficient. That was widely derided on here, with many fans seeing it as an excuse for the owner no longer being prepared to put his hand in his pocket - it would probably qualify as hiding behind ffp, as you put it, in fans' eyes.

With hindsight perhaps SL has been proven right, and we've been lucky to have such a careful owner, given what we have seen with the likes of Derby and Reading and are now increasingly seeing with even premier league clubs being penalised for breaching financial rules.

Interestingly, rather than hiding behind ffp, SL used ffp rules to benefit the club financially in the long term . While ffp limits how much an owner is allowed to put into a club directly for transfers , wages and the like ( not forgetting that SL is putting £20+m a year into BCFC just to keep us going) he recognised areas that ffp does allow an owner to invest without breaching ffp. That is why we have the revamped stadium and the HPC. 

Having been redeveloped, AG now generates more income, and especially on  non matchdays than did the old stadium, and that additional income can be used towards investment in the team, player wages etc. Similarly, the HPC is important in helping the club's academy. Better facilities attract better young players, the success of academy players like Kelly, Semenyo, Scott, Pring, Vyner, Conway, Bell etc, breaking into the first team only reinforces that, and they all cost nothing in transfer fees. Also, and as we well know, the sell on fees when academy players move on add massively to the clubs financial position.

All of that because, rather than hiding behind ffp, SL has put his hand in his pocket to invest huge amount as ffp does allow, to generate money for the club that ffp would not have allowed him to invest directly.

There are plenty of things and decision we might like to blame SL for, but I don't think hiding behind ffp is one of those. 

 

 

Fair comments mate.

But we havent breached ffp yet hes not unleashed the nest egg, nor has he chosen to gamble say 4 points by taking a punt like some have.

 

[Kid in the Riot]

3 hours ago, Cowshed said:

You put Harry Kane in that Man City team and? He would have to play entirely differently. 

Haaland is pushed up very high. Haaland does not take much part in link up play. Haaland does not drop off into the zone where Foden and Du Bruyne are playing centrally, and the half spaces Bernardo Silva uses. 

Haaland plays up top on the last man for Man City and can run in behind with pace, he is properly quick and gives Man City extra options with an ability to utilise Edersons exceptional ability to distribute the ball at distances and accuracy that are remarkable.

Now do Harry Kane.  

Kane fits much better into that Man City side, which is probably why Man City tried to sign him before they signed Haaland.

[MarcusX]

2 hours ago, AshtonGreat said:

What do you mean by proper team? No team has been better than Man City over the past few years

I was referring to history and establishment as a big club, not one that's just bought their place at the top table like City have.

I also think it's a real shame for their fans that they got their first league win in so long during lockdown and couldn't be in the ground to witness it.

I don't mind Arsenal either, used to watch them a lot, but work with one of their fans and he'd be unbearable 

[W-S-M Seagull]

4 hours ago, Davefevs said:

 

I watched the new Man City documentary on Netflix last night. 

I was blown away by how good Peps team talks are. He is the master. 

I've not got an issue with him talking to a player on the pitch. That's the optimal time to say something. The moment has gone when back in the dressing room. Take away the crowds and the cameras and no one would have a problem with it so I don't see what the problem is. 

I always found it bizarre that people on here tried to compare Manning with wanting to be Pep by them saying Man City are emotionless when the reality is you'd struggle to find a more emotional manager than Pep. 

[Shauntaylor85]

10 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Kane at 30 is a career bottle job. Won nothing. He even bottled moving to Man City. 

Haaland at 23 has won pretty much everything. 

Much better player than Haaland? please. 

He is clearly better than Haaland. Haaland is woeful, Chris Wood would score as many in that team

[Shauntaylor85]

55 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Kane fits much better into that Man City side, which is probably why Man City tried to sign him before they signed Haaland.

Totally, Kane is the best all round forward in Europe. His approach play and ability to create chances as well as score sets him apart. He is sadly cursed as a player though, 11 years of title wins for Bayern and he goes there and this happens, his consolation will be a Cannon trophy to rub it in for top scorer (he was an Arsenal fan as a kid to be fair). 

Edited April 3 by Shauntaylor85

[Cowshed]

56 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Kane fits much better into that Man City side, which is probably why Man City tried to sign him before they signed Haaland.

He does not in this side. Kane would be occupying spaces occupied by Foden and Du Druyne and Silva. Man City are not playing with a false nine. This sides nine is pushed right up to create width x depth (front to back) in the extreme. This sides shape has altered to include more attacking players behind the CF. This side does not want a Centre forward that comes off the line and away from the oppositions box. 

[Kid in the Riot]

14 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

He does not in this side. Kane would be occupying spaces occupied by Foden and Du Druyne and Silva. Man City are not playing with a false nine. This sides nine is pushed right up to create width x depth (front to back) in the extreme. This sides shape has altered to include more attacking players behind the CF. This side does not want a Centre forward that comes off the line and away from the oppositions box. 

Maybe I should have been clearer - Kane is a better fit for Man City then Haaland.

This current Man C team and the way it plays has of course been tweaked to fit Haaland in. It could very easily be tweaked to accommodate Kane.

[spudski]

33 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

I watched the new Man City documentary on Netflix last night. 

I was blown away by how good Peps team talks are. He is the master. 

I've not got an issue with him talking to a player on the pitch. That's the optimal time to say something. The moment has gone when back in the dressing room. Take away the crowds and the cameras and no one would have a problem with it so I don't see what the problem is. 

I always found it bizarre that people on here tried to compare Manning with wanting to be Pep by them saying Man City are emotionless when the reality is you'd struggle to find a more emotional manager than Pep. 

It's a good series. Shows how he communicates. Typical Latino. 

[Cowshed]

20 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Maybe I should have been clearer - Kane is a better fit for Man City then Haaland.

This current Man C team and the way it plays has of course been tweaked to fit Haaland in. It could very easily be tweaked to accommodate Kane.

Man City are constantly evolving. Haaland being incorporated led to more than a tweak, Haaland led to City front to back covering far more pitch, and in the space this stretches Man City included extra players like Stones moving from CB to CDM and higher, Walker leaving any traditional role and inverting and over lapping, and a team that won three trophies. This season in comes Doku to the high, wide and deep shape. 

Two years ago .. All day long.  Kane now at City? There are things Haaland does Kane can't. The above gets turned back without Haaland. 

 

Edited April 3 by Cowshed

[Kid in the Riot]

2 hours ago, Cowshed said:

Two years ago .. All day long.  Kane now at City? There are things Haaland does Kane can't.

And that's my point.

I'd say the main thing Haaland can do over Kane is use his pace to latch onto through balls, however Man City have stopped playing to that strength of his this season, for some reason. It means Haaland and Man C have been less effective as a result. 

[GrahamC]

11 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

It's not an "argument". It's a fact. Man City are paying their lawyers to stall the progress of the cases brought against them. 

Throughout the whole process Man City have sought to discredit the proceedings, hide information, and threaten journalists and the courts.

They've behaved appallingly, and not like other clubs who have mostly cooperated with the Premier League. 

They are banking on stalling the process for long enough so that they can win as much as possible before sanctions hit. 

They are also hoping for political intervention given their owners lead a country that is a UK ally. 

I’m really not sure that’s true in the case of Chelsea.

The Abramovich era definitely hasn’t been properly investigated yet.

He was basically Putin’s money launderer, every trophy they won in his time is tainted.

 

[Kid in the Riot]

1 minute ago, GrahamC said:

I’m really not sure that’s true in the case of Chelsea.

The Abramovich era definitely hasn’t been properly investigated yet.

He was basically Putin’s money launderer, every trophy they won in his time is tainted.

I think you're raising a different point, Graham. You are talking about WHERE the money came from at Chelsea, and obviously I agree it was from dubious sources. And really the Premier League allowing Abramovich to buy Chelsea has led to all the problems we have now. As once you let one suspect owner in, the floodgates open. And boy, didn't they. 

But in the majority of the time he owned Chelsea there was no limit to spending, hence he was able to buy as much silverware as he did. 

Man City signed up to spending rules and limits and have allegedly systematically breached them for a number of years. 

Notwithstanding where their money comes from, that is clearly a different scenario to the Chelsea situation. 

Though in time, we will see if Chelsea do breach the rules. I can't imagine they can afford to be out of the Champions League for too much longer.