The Style...

[Tomo]

Interesting that towards the end of the 1st half the crowd booed Pring for going back to the keeper...and let's be clear that the majority of the fans going to these end of season meaningless games are the hard-core type.

You can sense that the style of play is not being well received by the fan base even though we are on this unbeaten run. I guess it's all about next season now. If we are top 10 playing this way, then I'm happy as that's improvement but anything like bottom half of the table come mid October, expect more booing from the stands if we continue to go sideways, backwards and back again...

[Barrs Court Red]

I’m struggling to remember a negative reaction to a passage of play like that in all the years I’ve been watching.  

[exAtyeoMax]

3 minutes ago, Tomo said:

Interesting that towards the end of the 1st half the crowd booed Pring for going back to the keeper...and let's be clear that the majority of the fans going to these end of season meaningless games are the hard-core type.

You can sense that the style of play is not being well received by the fan base even though we are on this unbeaten run. I guess it's all about next season now. If we are top 10 playing this way, then I'm happy as that's improvement but anything like bottom half of the table come mid October, expect more booing from the stands if we continue to go sideways, backwards and back again...

Um, I’m like, “what style?!”

[Loco Rojo]

I think the booing was a culmination of the stops/pass backwards/slow performance from the whole team today (complete contrast to the much improved performances recently when we've stopped playing Mannings horribly boring style). - I don't think the booing was just because of that 1 moment or aimed personally at Pring.

Edited April 13 by Loco Rojo

[Silvio Dante]

Today undid a proportion of the good work from Blackburn, Plymouth and Leicester - precisely because of the style.

Post Easter, I’ve used the word “intent” a lot - we have looked to move the ball quicker and we’ve been a better side for it. Today, we didn’t. And the largest part of that was due to the unenforced changes (McCrorie to CB, Sykes to WB, and especially Knight to AM). I said at half time that there was a huge gap between the back and front of the team, particularly because up top Twine didn’t seem to be interested unless the ball was directly to his feet (I made my mind up on him today - there are sparks of creativity but it’s not a deal I’d do).

So, we ended up without the ability to move the ball quickly through the thirds. As a result it was back to sideways and backwards passes - precisely because there was no other ball on - and if I’m being picky, that was due to the way we set up forcing us into that style as opposed to the players choosing that style.

Today, we saw again that Liam is a naturally cautious coach. Maybe he felt he earnt the right to be so today through the current run. But it failed - pretty badly. And all it did was raise the question again of “Did we play with that intent recently as it was the only way to save his job?”

[Mr Popodopolous]

19 minutes ago, Barrs Court Red said:

I’m struggling to remember a negative reaction to a passage of play like that in all the years I’ve been watching.  

Swansea first half there was something similar when it back to O'Leary.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Wasn't very good today was it.

We had little flurries here and there but the intent, the positive habits of some recent gsmes seemed to be missing.

The increasingly makeshift backline is an issue, but how big a mitigation Idk. What is wrong with Vyner anyway?

I say not very good, it wasn't awful awful like Norwich, Millwall, Cardiff, Swansea- the first two and last were sleep inducing but it wasn't especially decent.

Edited April 13 by Mr Popodopolous

[Sixtyseconds]

The answer to these things is?

Russel Osman.

He could have headed it in the park. 

He would have only been hissed at for that.

[Ashton Fete]

Today for me:

- Once and for all answered the James and Williams in the same team question. They don’t compliment each other, they hinder each other. One or the other with Knight

- Why revert back to playing Knight in the No10 role given how well he’s been playing, again it hinders his performance 

- Highlighted why we need quick players in the forward areas (again) and why someone like their number 14 Thomas is exactly what we’re missing 

- there seems to be no scenerio in which Mebude comes on (I.e Cornick instead at 4-0 up on Weds) so why not have a youth player on the bench whose not been in the matchday squad 

There’s plenty more but that’s the main bits as I saw it

[downendcity]

Council?

[Silvio Dante]

Just now, downendcity said:

Council?

Well. It’s fair to say that Liam is not the best thing that’s ever happened to us. And I’ve been consistent on that - it’s not one of my ever changing moods. I don’t see him shouting us to the top any time soon, irrespective of how much of the money go round he gets this long hot summer.

Have you ever had it blue?

[Fuber]

1 hour ago, Barrs Court Red said:

I’m struggling to remember a negative reaction to a passage of play like that in all the years I’ve been watching.  

Happened multiple times under the end of LJs tenure to be fair.

[exAtyeoMax]

49 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

Today undid a proportion of the good work from Blackburn, Plymouth and Leicester - precisely because of the style.

Post Easter, I’ve used the word “intent” a lot - we have looked to move the ball quicker and we’ve been a better side for it. Today, we didn’t. And the largest part of that was due to the unenforced changes (McCrorie to CB, Sykes to WB, and especially Knight to AM). I said at half time that there was a huge gap between the back and front of the team, particularly because up top Twine didn’t seem to be interested unless the ball was directly to his feet (I made my mind up on him today - there are sparks of creativity but it’s not a deal I’d do).

So, we ended up without the ability to move the ball quickly through the thirds. As a result it was back to sideways and backwards passes - precisely because there was no other ball on - and if I’m being picky, that was due to the way we set up forcing us into that style as opposed to the players choosing that style.

Today, we saw again that Liam is a naturally cautious coach. Maybe he felt he earnt the right to be so today through the current run. But it failed - pretty badly. And all it did was raise the question again of “Did we play with that intent recently as it was the only way to save his job?”

I’m not totally sold on Twine, but that is because I don’t think he’d want to sign for us. 

[Dr Balls]

11 minutes ago, exAtyeoMax said:

I’m not totally sold on Twine, but that is because I don’t think he’d want to sign for us. 

On recent performances the term “show pony” comes to mind. Thinks he is better than he is , but really isn’t all that good. Gave the ball away countless times today, offered little going forward, and had a shot near the end that was just a “look at me” punt when there were far better options available. He’s lucky we got the penalty or otherwise he could be up for belters over that one!

Would I shell out £5+ million on him in fees and many thousands per week in wages on the basis of what we have seen so far? Absolutely not. He’s very lightweight and easily robbed of the ball at this level. He may have torn up League 1 a couple of years ago, but on a similar level, scoring all those goals in League 1 didn’t make Kieron Agard a championship level player.

Edited April 13 by Dr Balls

[One Team]

1 hour ago, Loco Rojo said:

I think the booing was a culmination of the stops/pass backwards/slow performance from the whole team today (complete contrast to the much improved performances recently when we've stopped playing Mannings horribly boring style). - I don't think the booing was just because of that 1 moment or aimed personally at Pring.

Agreed. We’d regressed to the pre international break shite we’ve come to hate from Manning. I thought he’d moved on from that the last few games, but it was back and the crowd didn’t like it. Credit where it’s due though he changed it second half and it was much better.

[cellist]

1 hour ago, Loco Rojo said:

I think the booing was a culmination of the stops/pass backwards/slow performance from the whole team today (complete contrast to the much improved performances recently when we've stopped playing Mannings horribly boring style). - I don't think the booing was just because of that 1 moment or aimed personally at Pring.

Agree. Though that incident was an interesting one because everyone could see the backpass coming, and we're shouting for him not to do it. He appeared to then second guess it and look for an option, but not seeing one, did it anyway. (From where I sat that's what it looked like anyway). Quite a few comical 'no, no, noooo's from where I was sitting (including me).

Its symptomtic of a bigger issue though. LM has even admitted himself the possibility of over-coaching, overloading with information. Seems to lead to players making bizarre decisions. (Unless they have the vision and decision making skills of an Iniesta!) 

Just bizarre not to put the ball back in the box when everyone is up for a corner. It's hardly route one football to ping it back in from a set piece.

Edited April 13 by cellist

[exAtyeoMax]

1 minute ago, Dr Balls said:

On recent performances the term “show pony” comes to mind. Thinks he is better than he is , but really isn’t all that good. Gave the ball away countless times today, offered little going forward, and had a shot near the end that was just a “look at me” punt when there were far better options available. He’s lucky we got the penalty or otherwise he could be up for belters over that one!

Would I shell out £5+ million on him in fees and many thousands per week in wages on the basis of what we have seen so far? Absolutely not. He’s very lightweight and easily robbed of the ball at this level. He may have torn up League 1 a couple of years ago, but on a similar level, scoring all those goals in League 1 didn’t make Kieron Agard a championship level player.

Yes I feel he’s a bit “all about me”. Not convinced he’s interested in being with us

[Edgy Red]

8 minutes ago, Dr Balls said:

On recent performances the term “show pony” comes to mind. Thinks he is better than he is , but really isn’t all that good. Gave the ball away countless times today, offered little going forward, and had a shot near the end that was just a “look at me” punt when there were far better options available. He’s lucky we got the penalty or otherwise he could be up for belters over that one!

Would I shell out £5+ million on him in fees and many thousands per week in wages on the basis of what we have seen so far? Absolutely not. He’s very lightweight and easily robbed of the ball at this level. He may have torn up League 1 a couple of years ago, but on a similar level, scoring all those goals in League 1 didn’t make Kieron Agard a championship level player.

Agree with this... we need some pace and physicality at the top end of the pitch and Twine hasn't shown enough to justify a hefty transfer fee.

[Malago]

James and Williams together was a mistake.  I understand that with two rookie centre backs he wanted to have experience in front of them, but the knock on effect was playing Knight at No 10, a role which clearly doesn’t suit him.

The irony was that Roberts, and particularly Tanner, looked assured at centre back, which allowed him to bring on Mehmeti for Williams later on.  

Knight along side James, with Twine at 10, and Mehmeti wide left should have been the starting point.

Edited April 13 by Malago

[A Horse With No Name]

1 hour ago, Sixtyseconds said:

The answer to these things is?

Russel Osman.

He could have headed it in the park. 

He would have only been hissed at for that.

You had to be there to have appreciated that moment.

[chinapig]

@ExiledAjaxhit the nail on the head in the MDT. There is no Manning style, our approach to any game is determined by how the opposition set up.

Which is why we play with aggressive intent in one game then revert to pedestrian football in the next. He just will not consistently play in a way that suits the players we have.

He even out ranks LJ in the  over thinking stakes. Though he no doubt thinks it's sophisticated.

Edited April 13 by chinapig

[Silvio Dante]

24 minutes ago, Dr Balls said:

On recent performances the term “show pony” comes to mind. Thinks he is better than he is , but really isn’t all that good. Gave the ball away countless times today, offered little going forward, and had a shot near the end that was just a “look at me” punt when there were far better options available. He’s lucky we got the penalty or otherwise he could be up for belters over that one!

Would I shell out £5+ million on him in fees and many thousands per week in wages on the basis of what we have seen so far? Absolutely not. He’s very lightweight and easily robbed of the ball at this level. He may have torn up League 1 a couple of years ago, but on a similar level, scoring all those goals in League 1 didn’t make Kieron Agard a championship level player.

There really isn’t any compelling reason to sign him is there? However, I am getting decidedly Kasey Palmer vibes. An underwhelming loan spell that doesn’t demand he’s signed permanently but a manager who thinks he can make him into a standout player, then us stuck with a player on big wages that we need to somehow offload…. 

[petehinton]

1 minute ago, Silvio Dante said:

There really isn’t any compelling reason to sign him is there? However, I am getting decidedly Kasey Palmer vibes. An underwhelming loan spell that doesn’t demand he’s signed permanently but a manager who thinks he can make him into a standout player, then us stuck with a player on big wages that we need to somehow offload…. 

Said a few weeks ago, but if Burnley want anything over £2m for Twine and we should laugh, shrug it off and move on.  
 

Let’s be honest, he’s unproven at this level and has done very little to warrant an outlay anywhere near the level of someone like Knight. 
 

It feels a bit like fans feel he’s the only number 10 available to sign, and that bringing him in suddenly changes our style under Manning. We’ve seen so far it helps a bit, but in no way transforms us. It’s not Afobe-gate.  
 

I’d actually feel more concerned if we caved in and paid Burnley what we wanted for him, than if we didn’t. 

[Davefevs]

3 minutes ago, petehinton said:

Said a few weeks ago, but if Burnley want anything over £2m for Twine and we should laugh, shrug it off and move on.  
 

Let’s be honest, he’s unproven at this level and has done very little to warrant an outlay anywhere near the level of someone like Knight. 
 

It feels a bit like fans feel he’s the only number 10 available to sign, and that bringing him in suddenly changes our style under Manning. We’ve seen so far it helps a bit, but in no way transforms us. It’s not Afobe-gate.  
 

I’d actually feel more concerned if we caved in and paid Burnley what we wanted for him, than if we didn’t. 

I think that even at £2m(ish) I think you could get better value…now we’ve seen him in a City shirt in a Manning team.

[1team]

I think the crowd don't lie. Entertain and they will respond don't and they will respond. Today was rubbish. Not about the players. The style, formation, aptitude and application were poor. Happening too often for my liking. P.S I watch every game. 

[Roger Red Hat]

I'm probably in a minority here but I think the 'style' was dictated by the available defenders, and the fact that Max was virtually playing on one leg after about 20 minutes! I saw the team and thought that it was going to be a back 4. I don't see the fuss about Twine and I can't see us parting with the reported fee for him.

I'm pleased we got a draw out of it really, and not having Vyner or Dickie or Atkinson available we achieved a reasonable result.

[ExiledAjax]

34 minutes ago, chinapig said:

@ExiledAjaxhit the nail on the head in the MDT. There is no Manning style, our approach to any game is determined by how the opposition set up.

Thanks China but I think I need to clarify my opinion. 

What I was more getting at is that I think he does set us up quite consistently, and seems (to me at least) to approach games in a similar manner. What I see is that the extent to which that set up is actually effective is entirely determined by the attitude of the opposition. 

I think that can make it look like there's no overarching style, because we're not actually capable of imposing our desired style on a game (unless we're allowed to)...so what we see as fans is a reflection of the opposition du jour's style.

Hope that makes sense.

Edited April 13 by ExiledAjax

[Major Isewater]

1 hour ago, Silvio Dante said:

Have you ever had it blue?

I once got it caught in my flies. 

[Nescot]

It’s boring - hopefully he will get the players he needs in and things will improve, if not, good luck LM.

[jonnyessex]

Not quite sure why there is so much negativity. Unbeaten in 5, near the top of the form table even with most of our defenders injured! Finally getting some results against the lower placed side and now style is the issue