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Assuming Joe Williams wants to stay…

Davefevs

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Ian M

Ian M

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2 hours ago, Puckle_red said:

A midfield player who rarely scores, doesn't run with the ball, isn't strong in the air, rarely passes forward and is injury prone. But he tries really hard and makes rash tackles - seems a perfect fit for a Bristol City midfielder at this level.

I wonder if this part is accurate as, in my mind, Joe is our CM most likely to look to play incisive forward passes this season. But he does have the odd game where his passing is atrocious. Fortunately those have been fewer of late imo.

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Bristol Rob

Bristol Rob

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I can't get past him calling an ice-lolly a lolly-ice.

So not only would I release him, I would try and find out if such an offense was punishable with prison.

If he can get over this serious blip, then I can't think of anyone better who would be cheaper (especially if you consider a transfer fee).

So, if he wants to be FAB and a FEAST of footballing entertainment, the (Screw)ball is in his court. I wanna see him SPARKLE.

Else, he gets a ROCKET, him and his FUNNY FEET.

(Sadly, I haven't been able to shoehorn a defensive WALLS reference in here).

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WolfOfWestStreet

WolfOfWestStreet

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3 hours ago, GrahamC said:

Not his job.

Korey Smith only scored one league goal in his time at City, he was still very good.

Smith was good, but he didn't shine in these aspects either, probably to our detriment. 

Williams is the same, do we really want to invest in a midfielder that can't score or really assist. 

We seem to be happy with the malaise that is bang average ... and yes I full expect a Bristol city #8 to score more than 2 goals in 3 years that's ******* pathetic 

Edited by WolfOfWestStreet
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Davefevs

Davefevs

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20 minutes ago, Ian M said:

I wonder if this part is accurate as, in my mind, Joe is our CM most likely to look to play incisive forward passes this season. But he does have the odd game where his passing is atrocious. Fortunately those have been fewer of late imo.

No, it isn’t! 😃😃😃

image.thumb.png.b167bbc7775aba258d8565b016492a75.png

Joe Williams makes more forward passes as a percentage of all passes, than most (c90%) of Championship midfielders with at least 500 minutes!

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WolfOfWestStreet

WolfOfWestStreet

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15 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

No, it isn’t! 😃😃😃

image.thumb.png.b167bbc7775aba258d8565b016492a75.png

Joe Williams makes more forward passes as a percentage of all passes, than most (c90%) of Championship midfielders with at least 500 minutes!

Dave. If Joe Williams was a free agent tomorrow, what club(s) do you think would be in for him. 

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GrahamC

GrahamC

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32 minutes ago, WolfOfWestStreet said:

Dave. If Joe Williams was a free agent tomorrow, what club(s) do you think would be in for him. 

Preston, Stoke, Blackburn & if they stay up, Sheffield Wednesday.

I’m aware I’m not Dave..

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BritAbroad

BritAbroad

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I'm hoping that the club will at least offer Williams a contract - whether or not it'll be at a wage he will accept is another thing. If the club also offer James a contract, I think it'll be on a much lower wage... maybe with a coaching role with it? IIRC both players have stated they want to stay at the club.

If the club also keep Andy King, I think it'll just be as a coach.

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Steve Watts

Steve Watts

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I just hope the club haven't shot themselves in the foot leaving it so late. Getting so late in the day does a massive disservice to what he's offered this season. If not for Rob Dickie he'd have had my shout as player of the year. 

To have played so well and then had either Manning or Tinnion (can't remember which) saying they've got to be playing for a contract was hugely disrespectful considering their performances (Williams and Jamo). 

He's the breaker in midfield and the fly in the ointment of this clubs soft underbelly. He's this squads Marlon Pack - right down to being both the best passer of the ball in the club whilst also being the worst passer of the ball at the club!

He absolutely has to be offered a new deal. I just hope he takes it.

Edited by Steve Watts
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Puckle_red

Puckle_red

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2 hours ago, Ian M said:

I wonder if this part is accurate as, in my mind, Joe is our CM most likely to look to play incisive forward passes this season. But he does have the odd game where his passing is atrocious. Fortunately those have been fewer of late imo.

Ironically, he played a nicely weighted pass through to Conway who went on to assist the goal today. 

To be fair, you dont need world beaters in there to compete (Morsy and Luongo at Ipswich, albeit they have promotion momentum). I just think it's too little too late to warrant a new deal.

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WolfOfWestStreet

WolfOfWestStreet

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4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I think most non-PP clubs would be giving him a serious think.  

OK but seeing as we keep being told by the club the remit is to be promoted, why give our top dollar to a player that wouldn't get into a team our rivals for promotion wouldn't sign. 

I like Joe, he's a good player, he's not a player in the #8 position of a team that gets promoted imo.

If we're happy to lurk in 12th for eternity, fine, sign him on. I just hope the club is looking to make upgrades, not double down on players, who let's be honest have hardly set the world on fire in this league. 

Dave - honest question as I know you are a smart guy and have all the data to back up most arguments, but really, what do you really think this club actually wants to do? Because I'm confused, there seems to be no real vision coming out of this club anymore. 

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Swede

Swede

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I think we're seeing of late exactly the the reason we signed him in the first place. Re signing him is a no brainer.

I would re sign James as well but I guess we can't have everyone. We will be losing King (sadly) so there's where Bird steps in.

It seems to me that a lot depends on where the club sees the midfield structure.

All sentiment aside, when both James and Williams were signed it would've been on lucrative contracts & someone correct me if I'm wrong but the rules governing football contracts are that we have to offer the same terms (or more) or they can go to the open market.

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Davefevs

Davefevs

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5 minutes ago, WolfOfWestStreet said:

OK but seeing as we keep being told by the club the remit is to be promoted, why give our top dollar to a player that wouldn't get into a team our rivals for promotion wouldn't sign. 

I like Joe, he's a good player, he's not a player in the #8 position of a team that gets promoted imo.

If we're happy to lurk in 12th for eternity, fine, sign him on. I just hope the club is looking to make upgrades, not double down on players, who let's be honest have hardly set the world on fire in this league. 

Dave - honest question as I know you are a smart guy and have all the data to back up most arguments, but really, what do you really think this club actually wants to do? Because I'm confused, there seems to be no real vision coming out of this club anymore. 

I did say non-PP clubs, because that is who we’re are competing with realistically, alongside the hope that the non-PP clubs don’t get their act together upon relegation or in their 2nd (3rd) years down).  Joe Williams wouldn’t look out of place in Coventry’s playoff side last season for example.  I don’t think Joe is here to play the #8 he was initially signed to be, getting all over the pitch.  He still gets about, but as the deeper / deepest of the midfield combo.  I hate the DM / CM / AM lingo, and the #6, #8 and #10 stuff too…but I use it myself.  Joe is a different skillset, he gives us something no other midfield player gives us…he’s annoying, if not in his play but with his gob too.

I think he’s a player that helps us be about the sum of the parts.  I don’t think we will be able to recruit a bunch of individuals to succeed at this level, but I do think we can be a “stars aligning” team like Luton, Coventry, Sunderland, etc - “teams” that got into the play offs.

As for vision coming out of the club, well we don’t really hear anything from the board.  Tins fronts-up, but he’s not the board, and his MO is to be bullish about everything.  I like his enthusiasm for the club, but it’s not “strategic”.  So, honestly, we are all making it up on their behalf, picking up on soundbites from crappy interviews around Nige’s sacking, but all they are is soundbites, there is no substance behind them.  It’s not like the Fans Forum with Richard Gould before he went, where you got a real sense of where we were trying to get to…which was ultimately about surviving FFP and building.  Had he still been here (or PA for that matter) I think we’d have heard what stage 2 was.  We are being let down.  The board / owners are lucky we don’t have demanding fans.  I only hope that we come through the summer with a squad that looks to have some purpose to it (on paper at least) and actually we can just focus on the football side of things.

 

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Davefevs

Davefevs

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24 minutes ago, Swede said:

I think we're seeing of late exactly the the reason we signed him in the first place. Re signing him is a no brainer.

I would re sign James as well but I guess we can't have everyone. We will be losing King (sadly) so there's where Bird steps in.

It seems to me that a lot depends on where the club sees the midfield structure.

All sentiment aside, when both James and Williams were signed it would've been on lucrative contracts & someone correct me if I'm wrong but the rules governing football contracts are that we have to offer the same terms (or more) or they can go to the open market.

That’s related to under 24s and getting compo.

Over 24s its freedom of contract, they can just walk, regardless of what’s on offer.

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The Constant Rabbit

The Constant Rabbit

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I never understood the flack he got, glad he is playing well now he is confident his injuries are sorted.

 

As for James and Williams - I understood the purse strings would be loosened ti support Manning if things went well.

 

Things seem to have turned a corner.

King will go, Mbude too - the lads we have already signed for next season came from Leagues below or non-league so if they both want to stay - surely we have the cash?

 

Neither have clashed with Manning afaik so I'd say Manning would be very happy to have 2 hard working model pros on the books to help the inexperienced at Championship level guys coming in.

 

Would not surprise me to see both stay and James transition to a midfield coaching / playing role.

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GrahamC

GrahamC

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7 hours ago, Swede said:

I think we're seeing of late exactly the the reason we signed him in the first place. Re signing him is a no brainer.

I would re sign James as well but I guess we can't have everyone. We will be losing King (sadly) so there's where Bird steps in.

It seems to me that a lot depends on where the club sees the midfield structure.

All sentiment aside, when both James and Williams were signed it would've been on lucrative contracts & someone correct me if I'm wrong but the rules governing football contracts are that we have to offer the same terms (or more) or they can go to the open market.

Could be wrong but I really don’t think we are signing Bird to replace King.

I think he’s coming in as either James or Williams replacement.

No way did we ever expect King who was 35 in October to be in the squad over 30 times already this season.

That’s down to the unavailability of Naismith, Benarous & post January, possibly Murphy.

If Williams stays (James then goes), I think our 4 senior midfielders will be Knight, Bird, TGH & Williams.

In the absence of any of those then an Academy player, Stokes or Murphy will probably be in the squad.

To answer your point about contracts, both are of an age where they could go to the open market whatever we offered them.

 

Edited by GrahamC
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Red Billy

Red Billy

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14 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Pay him as you would do one of your top tier earners.

27 years old (28 in Dec), get him signed up for 3 years (at worst 2+1).  Treat it like a free transfer, because that is what it is.  He’s a top half championship performer.  I don’t think you’ll bring in as guaranteed a performer for the overall cost.  At his peak years.

Even if we made him a top earner there will be clubs prepared to pay him more and also prepared to give a large signing on fee. It will come down to how much he likes the area and the club IMO. If he were under contract what do you think his market value would be? At 27 I would think it would be at its optimum so he may look to convert this as a signing on fee. He’s really stepped up this season and looks like the player we were told we were signing. Hope he stays as he brings something to the team that none of the others midfielders do.

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Davefevs

Davefevs

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1 hour ago, Red Billy said:

Even if we made him a top earner there will be clubs prepared to pay him more and also prepared to give a large signing on fee. It will come down to how much he likes the area and the club IMO. If he were under contract what do you think his market value would be? At 27 I would think it would be at its optimum so he may look to convert this as a signing on fee. He’s really stepped up this season and looks like the player we were told we were signing. Hope he stays as he brings something to the team that none of the others midfielders do.

Yep, that is the danger.

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Swede

Swede

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Correct me if I'm wrong but Bird is a box to box defensive midfielder, so that would be a more dynamic replacement for a Williams or James (obviously without their experience) or a Naismith if he ever gets fit again. So it would seem that the club is moving towards releasing King and James at the end of their contracts and with Williams there will be an offer of a new one but no guarantee he will accept.

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