Cov v Man Utd

[redkev]

38 minutes ago, luke_bristol said:

Rashford has surely played himself out of the Euros, been rotten all season. 

Terrible attitude in the last 12-18 months 

[downendcity]

31 minutes ago, Midred said:

Recently there appear to be been a number of questionable or clear and obvious errors in the VAR's decision making, can that be challenged. The alternative is the rugby way where the referee asks for specific points to be checked or if dangerous play has been missef.

Perhaps we need VAR's VAR, to check whether VAR has made a clear and obvious error.

31 minutes ago, Midred said:

Recently there appear to be been a number of questionable or clear and obvious errors in the VAR's decision making, can that be challenged. The alternative is the rugby way where the referee asks for specific points to be checked or if dangerous play has been missef.

Perhaps we need VAR's VAR, to check whether VAR has made a clear and obvious error.

[LondonBristolian]

12 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

You think that by playing with VAR a player can time their movement so as to avoid being offside by a margin of a matter of centimetres? Come on. 

Again, the line needs to be drawn somewhere, doesn't it? 

I don't think "he hasn't played in games with VAR so he doesn't know if he's going to be off" really cuts the mustard as an excuse. 

This said, I'm still not a big fan of VAR. However it's here to stay so the rules and implementation of it need to improve. 

Obviously not. You're making the exact point I made in my original post. But my point in my second post is that it becomes even more ridiculous when it is a player who has never played with VAR before.

The line needs to be drawn somewhere but it needs to be drawn somewhere where players can know they are in the wrong and avoid it in the future. If it was "whole body" or "most of body" in front of a player then a player could reasonably do their best to avoid having their whole body or most of their body in front of an opposition player but it is clearly unreasonable to expect a player to be wholly certain that no single aspect of their body is closer to the goal than the last opposition defender. Hence the current law becomes ridiculous and unfair once VAR is applied to it.

[Mr Hankey]

54 minutes ago, luke_bristol said:

Rashford has surely played himself out of the Euros, been rotten all season. 

Not a chance, he fed kids so Southgate the politician will take him. Be hilarious once he takes over United in the summer after getting us knocked out in the quarters at the Euros. 

Those Ineos lot are going to be a bunch of blaggers, will be funny to watch United fans cry even more with their shitty Norwich scarves in 6 months.

[Kid in the Riot]

1 minute ago, LondonBristolian said:

Obviously not. You're making the exact point I made in my original post. But my point in my second post is that it becomes even more ridiculous when it is a player who has never played with VAR before.

The line needs to be drawn somewhere but it needs to be drawn somewhere where players can know they are in the wrong and avoid it in the future. If it was "whole body" or "most of body" in front of a player then a player could reasonably do their best to avoid having their whole body or most of their body in front of an opposition player but it is clearly unreasonable to expect a player to be wholly certain that no single aspect of their body is closer to the goal than the last opposition defender. Hence the current law becomes ridiculous and unfair once VAR is applied to it.

It's ridiculous to expect a player to know for certain whether they are in an offside position, or not, period.

For clarity, where would you draw the line? 

[cidercity1987]

Excellent baiting of the Bristolian Mancs on WhatsApp tonight, wow they are very touchy 

[exAtyeoMax]

God that's made me really sick and depressed and I didn't even see the game. I'd love to hear the VAR recording…

VAR and all the hype really has ruined the game for me.

[LondonBristolian]

6 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

It's ridiculous to expect a player to know for certain whether they are in an offside position, or not, period.

For clarity, where would you draw the line? 

“Would an assistant referee stood in line with play be able to clearly judge the attacking player to be closer to the goal than the defending player?”

If yes - and the assistant isn’t in line with play or is but somewhat misses it - VAR corrects the decision.

If no, there is no clear and obviously error and the attacker gets the benefit of the doubt. 

For me, it is the benefit of the doubt to the attacker that is the element that is lost. No decision will ever be 100% clear cut. But the role of VAR should be to correct things the ref and assistants should have picked up but did not rather than to try to add a level of precision that isn’t realistically possible to achieve.

[Markthehorn]

8 minutes ago, exAtyeoMax said:

God that's made me really sick and depressed and I didn't even see the game. I'd love to hear the VAR recording…

VAR and all the hype really has ruined the game for me.

Would people say the same had it been a Man U goal ruled out though ?

[formerly known as ivan]

Was the penalty decision for handball more harsh than the offside decision to rule out the goal?

If you look at the Everton vs Forest game, Forest had a clearer handball not given even with VAR.

Still can’t believe they have not made the offside rule as simple as daylight between attacker and defender. Wenger has been pushing this for year I believe.

[exAtyeoMax]

1 hour ago, Markthehorn said:

Would people say the same had it been a Man U goal ruled out though ?

That's not relevant for me, I don't care what other people say. It's another good competitive game ruined.

[Swede]

It's a poor Man Utd team from top to bottom. If only we'd beaten Notts forest. I definitely would've fancied our chances against them.

[Shauntaylor85]

2 hours ago, BCFCGav said:

Vintage Sunday afternoon entertainment that. Do feel for Coventry - went through the emotional wrangle about 10 times today. 

It was the most Bristol City thing to happen wasn’t it. Felt for them, United have big problems, I am surprised the new owners haven’t made the change yet. They need De Zerbi. 

[Tinmans Love Child]

9 hours ago, Markthehorn said:

Would people say the same had it been a Man U goal ruled out though ?

They do every single week, about any crazy decision that's made, regardless of the teams.  
 

VAR was brought in to overturn clear and obvious errors, and pre VAR, if the linesman had not given the Cov goal offside, there would have been nobody claiming that he actually was offside and Man Utd were robbed by a poor decision.

[Chrizzler]

The irony is that if it had been the quarter final it would have been played at Coventry where there would have been no VAR. Another nonsense, either all teams have it or none for cup games in my opinion. 

[bristolmoose]

13 hours ago, Robin101 said:

Meanwhile I see Rangers set up a Scottish cup final with Celtic. Shock. 

Football is increasingly very boring. 

First Celtic - Rangers final since 2002

[Roe]

9 hours ago, exAtyeoMax said:

That's not relevant for me, I don't care what other people say. It's another good competitive game ruined.

Why was the game "ruined"? It was incredible drama and one of the most amazing endings to a game you could ever have

[Oh Louie louie]

Somebody said yesterday Roy Keane should accept none of the Man United players had anything like the professionalism of players of his generation, quite.Managers a dead man walking

[exAtyeoMax]

23 minutes ago, Roe said:

Why was the game "ruined"? It was incredible drama and one of the most amazing endings to a game you could ever have

A penalty shoot out? Never a good ending. 

[David Brent]

Without VAR, nobody questions the decision to award the goal. 

I wonder how many key moments in football history would look very different with lines drawn over them. 

Got no issue with technology assistance for the referee but it’s not in place of the referee and linesmen.

I’ve not watched a great deal of football with VAR so perhaps I don’t understand it. But if it could be used for clear and obvious errors that would be great. 

The best use of VAR imo is for penalty reviews and identifying those who have tried to con the referee. The Coventry goal yesterday isn’t an example of that. 

[Oh Louie louie]

When Coventry were getting on top at 3 1 down most managers would have been off the bench or changing things around, he just looked shell shocked , 

[Markthehorn]

1 hour ago, Tinmans Love Child said:

They do every single week, about any crazy decision that's made, regardless of the teams.  
 

VAR was brought in to overturn clear and obvious errors, and pre VAR, if the linesman had not given the Cov goal offside, there would have been nobody claiming that he actually was offside and Man Utd were robbed by a poor decision.

No probably not not unless they were a Man U fan, player or manager .

And there wasn’t much in it I agree but if that goal had been for Man U would there be the same fuss about it being disallowed ?

More my point really .

Edited April 22 by Markthehorn

[Swede]

VAR is ruining football; not improving it! Every decision is becoming more and more contentious. Its riddled with flaws and with it its affecting the true spirit of the game. In real time, Coventry won that match fair and square. How can a player's size 9's be offside when the rest of him isn't?!? 

[Markthehorn]

8 minutes ago, Swede said:

VAR is ruining football; not improving it! Every decision is becoming more and more contentious. It’s riddled with flaws and with it it’s affecting the true spirit of the game. In real time, Coventry won that match fair and square. How can a player's size 9's be offside when the rest of him isn't?!? 

Main flaw is it’s used for subjective decisions which change from ref to ref and week to week .

Don’t think people thought of that when calling for VAR to come in .

[Roger Red Hat]

10 hours ago, Swede said:

It's a poor Man Utd team from top to bottom

Yep, they are a rabble. Clear out and rebuild needed. Mark Robins in the frame now.........

[AshtonGreat]

15 hours ago, 2015 said:

Man Utd and Man City. Two clubs who have financially made a joke of the English Football in the last 30 years meet in the final for the 2nd year in a row. 

Two detestable football clubs with detestable players and managers. 

I shall not be watching this literal 

Which Man City players would you say are detestable? They all seem very likeable to me

[cidered abroad]

13 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

It's ridiculous to expect a player to know for certain whether they are in an offside position, or not, period.

For clarity, where would you draw the line? 

Firstly, I believe that if there is any doubt about the decision, by linesman or VAR, the decision should favour the attacking side. It is, after all, a game that is played to score more goals than the opponents.

Secondly, I would only make a decision, draw the line, with only one part of the body is taken into consideration. The feet! 

VAR seems to me a very negative thing for attacking football and an encouragement for sides to be more negative in approach.

Another suggestion would be that offside, which was introduced in the very early days of football, should be dispensed with now. Defenders would then not be able to move forward to deliberately play an opponent offside. And the entertainment value of a match may be increased with more goals.

[Tinmans Love Child]

3 hours ago, Markthehorn said:

No probably not not unless they were a Man U fan, player or manager .

And there wasn’t much in it I agree but if that goal had been for Man U would there be the same fuss about it being disallowed ?

More my point really .

I think if Man Utd had a last minute winner chalked off there would have been a lot of fuss!

[Roger Red Hat]

2 hours ago, cidered abroad said:

Another suggestion would be that offside, which was introduced in the very early days of football, should be dispensed with now.

I don't agree with that, but, as someone suggested earlier, change the law so that there has to be 'clear daylight' between defender and attacker, and no need for VAR to be involved. No stupid toenail type nonsense decisions.

[Markthehorn]

16 minutes ago, Roger Red Hat said:

I don't agree with that, but, as someone suggested earlier, change the law so that there has to be 'clear daylight' between defender and attacker, and no need for VAR to be involved. No stupid toenail type nonsense decisions.

Think Wenger was going for that suggestion too .

https://www.skysports.com/amp/football/news/11095/11945716/fifa-president-gianni-infantino-backs-arsene-wenger-s-offside-law-proposal
 

Not sure what happened to the idea though!