Ten young ‘uns sign pro contracts

[Jerseybean]

As per the title: https://www.bcfc.co.uk

 

[Jerseybean]

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/bristol-city-reward-fa-youth-9277787?utm_source=bristol_live_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Bristol+Live+-+BCFC+Newsletter_newsletter&utm_content=&utm_term=&ruid=eda3a0ce-34ec-4a85-96cd-ae68727a6b80

[Malago]

Billy Phillips and Archie Taylor, lovely throwback names.

Good luck to them all.

[Davefevs]

10 minutes ago, Malago said:

Billy Phillips and Archie Taylor, lovely throwback names.

Good luck to them all.

Taylor looks like a throwback centre-half.  If the ball’s there to win, he’ll attack it.

[David Brent]

Frightening, but pleasing, to see the son of another former player making progress at the club. 

[Bristol Rob]

4 minutes ago, David Brent said:

Frightening, but pleasing, to see the son of another former player making progress at the club. 

Matt Hill (I think) is another who has a son who made a professional game appearance. 

[David Brent]

Just now, Bristol Rob said:

Matt Hill (I think) is another who has a son who made a professional game appearance. 

That’s right. Son James has had a decent career so far. 

[RollsRoyce]

10 hours ago, Jerseybean said:

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/bristol-city-reward-fa-youth-9277787?utm_source=bristol_live_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Bristol+Live+-+BCFC+Newsletter_newsletter&utm_content=&utm_term=&ruid=eda3a0ce-34ec-4a85-96cd-ae68727a6b80

Wishing all of them the greatest success. Manning will not play one minute of first team football with any of them. The pathway is no longer real. 

[grifty]

15 minutes ago, RollsRoyce said:

Wishing all of them the greatest success. Manning will not play one minute of first team football with any of them. The pathway is no longer real. 

Apart from Elijah Morrison...

He's not part of that list as he is under contract but did make an appearance under Manning.

[1960maaan]

26 minutes ago, RollsRoyce said:

Wishing all of them the greatest success. Manning will not play one minute of first team football with any of them. The pathway is no longer real. 

I'm fighting the urge to just give a "like" and agree with you . But as I've said the Jury is out for Manning as a Coach I really have to give him time to see if he will give the young guns time further down the line.

I have said it annoyed me juggling the team and having Sykes at LWB so we didn't have to do one obvious change. It annoyed me that he didn't give more minutes to JKL or Morrision in what were dead rubbers. But TBH I think he still felt a little pressured to get results. That poor run seemed to really focus him and even though it was a decent run of results there were plenty of "sliding door" moments . 

I won't count playing Stokes (or Murphy) as using the academy next year , I think we need to see the likes of Knight - Lebel and Morrison or Yeboah getting runs , obviously they have to warrant it.
But if recruitment goes smoothly we will end up with a slightly larger squad, should be able to fill the bench with first team players and that in turn will highlight LM's feelings towards the Academy.

We sign quality youngsters partly through our reputation, Stokes and Murphy the obvious ones. If that 'Pathway' is obviously not there any more I worry we will miss the next batch of Scotts', Semenyos and Conways.

[Silvio Dante]

16 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

I'm fighting the urge to just give a "like" and agree with you . But as I've said the Jury is out for Manning as a Coach I really have to give him time to see if he will give the young guns time further down the line.

I have said it annoyed me juggling the team and having Sykes at LWB so we didn't have to do one obvious change. It annoyed me that he didn't give more minutes to JKL or Morrision in what were dead rubbers. But TBH I think he still felt a little pressured to get results. That poor run seemed to really focus him and even though it was a decent run of results there were plenty of "sliding door" moments . 

I won't count playing Stokes (or Murphy) as using the academy next year , I think we need to see the likes of Knight - Lebel and Morrison or Yeboah getting runs , obviously they have to warrant it.
But if recruitment goes smoothly we will end up with a slightly larger squad, should be able to fill the bench with first team players and that in turn will highlight LM's feelings towards the Academy.

We sign quality youngsters partly through our reputation, Stokes and Murphy the obvious ones. If that 'Pathway' is obviously not there any more I worry we will miss the next batch of Scotts', Semenyos and Conways.

Ditto.

I’m going to tap my sign again that says Liam has had three seasons in management and has not brought through one academy player to be a regular first team squad member (who actually plays some minutes - hello Jamie KL) at any club. He has a reputation (based on being an academy coach) of bringing through and developing youth but this is totally and utterly unfounded at this point - and a five minute cameo off the bench for Morrison doesn’t change that.

To be frank, there are still bigger question marks for me and it’s a big first 12 games next season. But three seasons, three clubs, not one player isn’t just “there was no quality coming through” - it’s rank unwillingness to use the system (despite the sound bites of looking to the academy first), and once more you have to wonder exactly how much due diligence was done on Liam as a “fit” for the club as he doesn’t appear to share the academy ethos.

[Crackers Corner]

I thought phillips looked good in the couple of u18 games I saw. Good luck to them all.

[Robbored]

1 hour ago, RollsRoyce said:

Wishing all of them the greatest success. Manning will not play one minute of first team football with any of them. The pathway is no longer real. 

The pathway under Cotterill was almost lost. I don’t remember him ever giving an academy graduate his debut and partly why his was sacked.

Nige had to utilise the academy because of injuries and it’s debatable whether he would have done so if a fit squad was available.

Many managers are hesitant to give young players an opportunity. They see it a risk as they’re not sure if the youngster will make the step up. 

I remember LJ introducing Semenyo to the first team squad including travelling away simply to get the experience of the lifestyle of a first teamer and after a slow start AS developed into a PL quality player.

I seriously doubt that Manning is any different to lots of other managers but it doesn’t mean that the pathway isn’t there.

 

[IAmNick]

1 hour ago, Silvio Dante said:

Liam has had three seasons in management and has not brought through one academy player to be a regular first team squad member (who actually plays some minutes - hello Jamie KL) at any club.

I guess my counter would be - has he had any good enough at Oxford or MK Dons? You need to give examples of who you think he's passed over I think. I believe he gave a couple of academy teenagers debuts at MK Dons (Ilunga and Tripp) for example. 

Are we talking literal debuts then solid first team squad or what here? Is that something that happens enough we can fairly judge him on it in only a few years of management?

I'd have liked to see him at least have a few more around the squad, but I'm not sure we can try and draw much of a conclusion about him and academies personally.

Edited May 11 by IAmNick

[Davefevs]

Of the ten players, the one who at this stage looks the most likely to have best career is Jed Meerholz.  But you just never know.  I like Taine Anderson too.

I’m not gonna bash Manning at this point, although I can see why others air their concerns.

But, there must be a realisation of the potential impact of not bringing through Academy players, and that is a financial one.

Bryan £6.7m

Reid £10m

Kelly £17m

Semenyo £9m

Scott £20m

plus any unrealised fees for:

Pring

Vyner

Conway

and to a lesser extent:

O’Leary

Bell

Since our return to the Championship we have made more than £60m on our own players (the list above doesn’t include smaller fees for the likes of Burns, Towler, Low, etc).

Which is more than the transfer profit made on all the signings subsequently sold.

They do of course have to be good enough, but sometimes a player surprises you how easily they step-up and fit-in.

[1960maaan]

27 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

They do of course have to be good enough, but sometimes a player surprises you how easily they step-up and fit-in.

I agree 

But that begs another question . 

A player coming in to train with the first team might do well, Stokes has been mentioned and Morrison was prominent in the videos towards the end of the season , what do they have to do to make the step onto the pitch. 
I do think that Pearson (although forced at times)  was good at giving players a run . I know a lot of store is put in what players do in training , but IMO you won't know just how a player reacts to real first team games. 
I always imagine someone coming into training and hesitant to smash into the likes of Williams, James or whoever, they have to work with these players every day. But on a pitch with real opposition, maybe different. And not everybody is the same , would Morrison have faired worse than Mebude ? Would Knight-Lebel have made us look worse than we did with Sykes at LWB if he had started CB ? 

Ultimately not my call obviously , but I do believe you have to give them a chance in a team with few changes and in their proper position, rather than a massively changed side for a minor Cup game.

[Silvio Dante]

58 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

I guess my counter would be - has he had any good enough at Oxford or MK Dons? You need to give examples of who you think he's passed over I think. I believe he gave a couple of academy teenagers debuts at MK Dons (Ilunga and Tripp) for example. 

Are we talking literal debuts then solid first team squad or what here? Is that something that happens enough we can fairly judge him on it in only a few years of management?

I'd have liked to see him at least have a few more around the squad, but I'm not sure we can try and draw much of a conclusion about him and academies personally.

I think we did this thread about a month ago - and acknowledging everyone’s definition will be different there was nobody from academy who he gave debut to and went on to play 10 games. Weren’t many debuts either!

Totally also acknowledge there may not have been the quality there but when you get three seasons in it starts to become a pattern. I think the wider piece there is that he’s not been at any club long enough for him to really gauge academy talent (we know he feels there isn’t time to do work because of the schedule and it naturally follows that the time he has he works with the first team) - and if you’re not with a club long, and under pressure to get results (as I think he has been in one way or another across his jobs) then you naturally rely on senior pros.

I guess the summary for me is this - he has a reputation, but there is seemingly no evidence to back it up - and a fair bit of evidence (most recently the unwillingness to use JKL and moving multiple players instead) to suggest that the reality is the opposite.

Put it this way - in an interview he would not be able to point to use of academy and bringing players through to the first team in anything other than a theoretical sense.

[1960maaan]

One thing I will say, and it's the natural order of things. 
With bringing through so many over a fairly  short period of time, who have gone on not only to play for us, but to have Premier League careers , naturally means we will have or are due a fallow period. 

I'll quote Dave

3 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Bryan £6.7m , Reid £10m , Kelly £17m , Semenyo £9m , Scott £20m

and

Pring , Vyner , Conway , O’Leary and Bell

Plus as he says the lesser ones and all those who make it else where after release , is a decent return.
So I get that currently we have no one that is demanding a first team place ..... yet. 
That's one reason I will give him time, there isn't a player who we all agree should be playing.
At the moment it's a couple who we think deserve some minutes .
Hopefully the U18s coming through will restart the process , while the likes of Meerholz , JKL and Morrison have a serious push next season. 

[Numero Uno]

This is what I have been saying for a few weeks now. Liam hasn’t cracked anything yet but what he has done with his end of season run is earn the right to be judged from a relatively clean slate. What he does from NOW in terms of results, style, entertainment, youth opportunities and anything else fans feel is important will be judged……from NOW.

[Red Homer]

Good to see Nelson given a contract - we had The Chief and now have The Chef!

[Simon bristol]

5 hours ago, Silvio Dante said:

Ditto.

I’m going to tap my sign again that says Liam has had three seasons in management and has not brought through one academy player to be a regular first team squad member (who actually plays some minutes - hello Jamie KL) at any club. He has a reputation (based on being an academy coach) of bringing through and developing youth but this is totally and utterly unfounded at this point - and a five minute cameo off the bench for Morrison doesn’t change that.

To be frank, there are still bigger question marks for me and it’s a big first 12 games next season. But three seasons, three clubs, not one player isn’t just “there was no quality coming through” - it’s rank unwillingness to use the system (despite the sound bites of looking to the academy first), and once more you have to wonder exactly how much due diligence was done on Liam as a “fit” for the club as he doesn’t appear to share the academy ethos.

Im not sure where he came through an academy but manning obviously gave twine the big breakthrough at mk when twine was still 21. The jurys still out but if he had someone coming through of that quality then they might have been in. Weve obviously kept bell and conway from this batch that have been released, but no one else was really competing for minutes, and the under 18s are all still very young. Hopefully they will start to get minutes next season.

[Silvio Dante]

20 minutes ago, Simon bristol said:

Im not sure where he came through an academy but manning obviously gave twine the big breakthrough at mk when twine was still 21. The jurys still out but if he had someone coming through of that quality then they might have been in. Weve obviously kept bell and conway from this batch that have been released, but no one else was really competing for minutes, and the under 18s are all still very young. Hopefully they will start to get minutes next season.

To be fair, Twine had in the prior season played about 50 games between league one (Swindon) and league two (Newport) and scored double figures in goals. I’m not sure that the playing him at MK was a big break or risk - he’d turned down a contract at Swindon to go there and was clearly signed by Martin as a first team player.

I wholeheartedly agree that it does depend on the quality coming through, and as I said I don’t think it’s been helped by Liams short time in jobs. It is an oddity though when you consider his reputation.

[Fpcity]

8 hours ago, David Brent said:

Frightening, but pleasing, to see the son of another former player making progress at the club. 

Who's the former player? Phillips? 

[Port Said Red]

3 minutes ago, Fpcity said:

Who's the former player? Phillips? 

Matt Hewlett....

Who is Romani Rowe and why is he in contract negotiations? Is he expecting to be picked up by someone else?

[Silvio Dante]

56 minutes ago, Port Said Red said:

Matt Hewlett....

Who is Romani Rowe and why is he in contract negotiations? Is he expecting to be picked up by someone else?

Name didn’t ring a huge bell with me either. Looks to be a midfielder, 18 years old and been with the academy since 2017. Signed scholarship deal at the same time as Nelson so this would be first pro contract. Can only assume he may either be entertaining other offers, or determining whether he wants to be a  pro.

 

[petehinton]

7 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Of the ten players, the one who at this stage looks the most likely to have best career is Jed Meerholz.  But you just never know.  I like Taine Anderson too.

I’m not gonna bash Manning at this point, although I can see why others air their concerns.

But, there must be a realisation of the potential impact of not bringing through Academy players, and that is a financial one.

Bryan £6.7m

Reid £10m

Kelly £17m

Semenyo £9m

Scott £20m

plus any unrealised fees for:

Pring

Vyner

Conway

and to a lesser extent:

O’Leary

Bell

Since our return to the Championship we have made more than £60m on our own players (the list above doesn’t include smaller fees for the likes of Burns, Towler, Low, etc).

Which is more than the transfer profit made on all the signings subsequently sold.

They do of course have to be good enough, but sometimes a player surprises you how easily they step-up and fit-in.

Eph

Jed

Rae Nelson

The top 3 for me who should be blooded into first team sooner rather than later, as the best talents imho. 
 

  I almost discount J KL from that as he basically is first team now, albeit should’ve had a lot more minutes this season than he ended up with. 

[Fuber]

On 11/05/2024 at 08:22, Robbored said:

The pathway under Cotterill was almost lost. I don’t remember him ever giving an academy graduate his debut and partly why his was sacked.

Nige had to utilise the academy because of injuries and it’s debatable whether he would have done so if a fit squad was available.

Many managers are hesitant to give young players an opportunity. They see it a risk as they’re not sure if the youngster will make the step up. 

I remember LJ introducing Semenyo to the first team squad including travelling away simply to get the experience of the lifestyle of a first teamer and after a slow start AS developed into a PL quality player.

I seriously doubt that Manning is any different to lots of other managers but it doesn’t mean that the pathway isn’t there.

 

Burns, Bryan, Reid - all had their first season with over 10 games (started) under Cotts, iirc.

Aside from that I can't recall any academy players who got anywhere near first team contention besides Morrell.

Vaguely recall the likes of Kevin Krans ending up somewhere in the Swedish lower leagues.

[Robbored]

5 minutes ago, Fuber said:

Burns, Bryan, Reid - all had their first season with over 10 games (started) under Cotts, iirc.

Aside from that I can't recall any academy players who got anywhere near first team contention besides Morrell.

 

Those two were out on loan at Argyle so had experienced first team football albeit at a lower league. Both had made their professional debuts with Plymouth.

[red panda]

Oh goodie, a thread that could be celebrating the achievements of some of our youth players quickly becomes yet another argument about whether or not Manning will play academy players.  It's been done to death already, but as a special treat for everyone I can reveal the answer .....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

We don't know.

Congratulations to the 10 

[View from the Dolman]

6 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Those two were out on loan at Argyle so had experienced first team football albeit at a lower league. Both had made their professional debuts with Plymouth.

Are you in some alternative reality?

Bobby Reid had played for Bristol City (both as a sub and in the starting XI with more than 30 appearances for City during the 2013/14 season), Cheltenham Town (Dec 2011), Oldham Athletic  (April 2013) before he went on loan to Plymouth in the 2014/15 season. 

Joe Bryan had played for Bristol City (full debut starting against Leicester in March 2012 and a dozen or so further appearances) before he went on loan to Plymouth for a couple of months in the 2012/13 season.