Jon Lansdown on buyouts, budgets and why Liam Manning can raise the bar at Bristol City

[Eddie Hitler]

5 hours ago, exAtyeoMax said:

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/jon-lansdown-buyouts-budgets-liam-9293658

 

It's Action Man!

 

[Street red]

1 hour ago, GrahamC said:

Last bit is so spot on.

SL made his fortune himself, this horseshit on here at times about him being Hargreaves’ dumb partner is so patronising, especially as Hargreaves is so far to the right politically there’s absolutely no way he tolerates a passenger for a business partner.

SL earned the money & the right to spend it, completely infuriating as it was at times.

His son? Nope.

Basically we’ve gone from Oliver Cromwell to Richard Cromwell, if you know your history..

But SL put his son there it doesn't matter if he's made the money himself the decision to put the incompetence in a position he's in is unbelievable, SL might be good with figures but his decision making and business sence is nothing but baffling.

[awbb]

24 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

You’re gonna have to educate me, I dropped History to do Geography!

After Charles I got his head snicked off, Oliver Cromwell was chosed as Lord Protector. On his death, because what the house of commons wanted, was a hereditory head of state, like, you know, a monarch, they appointed Richard Cromwell as his successor. It's fair to say he made a complete fudge of it and so they quietly retired him and got Charles II back as king... who by and large was pretty good.

A quick 7 minutes if you can be bothered...

 

 

[Superjack]

SUA... well, you know the rest.

[Henry]

Where’s RedGoblin when you need him, eh?

[TammyAB]

52 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

You’re gonna have to educate me, I dropped History to do Geography!

 

Oliver's reign was austere, With Puritan ways quite severe. He ruled with a fist, And was hard to resist, Instilling in many some fear.

But Richard, a gentler sort, In politics fell rather short. He lacked the same clout, And was soon ushered out, As England sought a new port.

[GrahamC]

1 hour ago, Street red said:

But SL put his son there it doesn't matter if he's made the money himself the decision to put the incompetence in a position he's in is unbelievable, SL might be good with figures but his decision making and business sence is nothing but baffling.

He’s only done so because he’s completely lost interest.

The revelation that he played no part whatsoever in the appointment of Manning tells you that.

No doubt that his decision making at HL & with us are chalk & cheese.

[Steve Watts]

A few take aways really. 

Some actual cohesion with the previous part (though it should be noted that this is the same interview) . We welcome investment but only from those who want to do things exactly the same way as the 4 musketeers. 

Echo the sentiments around the pre break wobble. Bizarre. 

The last point, plus the comment about seeing things go so much better after the break ignore the fact that, as has been mentioned, his reign, irrespective of results and outlier performances has largely been turgid, dull, boring shit even during the unbeaten run. I agree it's a results based business, but it's also an entertainment industry, so it doesn't exactly whet the appetite for sitting through it knowing that the performances were deemed acceptable.

 

[pongo88]

3 hours ago, fisherrich said:

The club is a laughing stock of the Championship. We need new owners badly.

I don’t think City is the laughing stock of the Championship. The club is an irrelevance to other clubs and supporters and as such is not on anyone’s radar 

[W-S-M Seagull]

Does this potentially mean we are currently going through that process? 

"Obviously we’ve talked to loads of different people but even if you do find someone who’s right on both sides, it still takes a long time to go through the process. It’s not something I’m expecting an imminent update on.”

 

 

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Does this potentially mean we are currently going through that process? 

"Obviously we’ve talked to loads of different people but even if you do find someone who’s right on both sides, it still takes a long time to go through the process. It’s not something I’m expecting an imminent update on.”

 

 

No.

 

 

(imho)

[!james]

It's a shame that Piercy who is usually pretty good at asking decent questions and getting half decent answers didn't dig into some of these absolute nonsense responses from JL. Hope he isn't just towing the party line now 

[W-S-M Seagull]

26 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

No.

 

 

(imho)

As much as I would like the Lansdowns to leave, I'm not sure I have too much faith in them to find a decent buyer. 

Their managerial appointments over the years doesn't give me much hope on that front. 

[Harry]

50 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Does this potentially mean we are currently going through that process? 

"Obviously we’ve talked to loads of different people but even if you do find someone who’s right on both sides, it still takes a long time to go through the process. It’s not something I’m expecting an imminent update on.”

 

 

 

47 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

No.

 

 

(imho)

I initially thought Yes. 
But then, as with anything Jon says, I had to re-read it 5 times and pretend I had lost 3 trillion brain cells so that I was on a level, and then put myself in his position as a dribbling incompetent who thinks he’s a great leader and uses the same phrases in most sentences, and I then came to the same conclusion as you Fevs. 

I think it means that we’ve spoken to a few people over the last 3 years, none of which were prepared to pay what we wanted and so we’re still at square one. 

Edited May 20 by Harry

[Davefevs]

3 minutes ago, Harry said:

I think it means that we’ve spoken to a few people over the last 3 years, none of which were prepared to pay what we wanted and so we’re still at square one. 

[Kid in the Riot]

1 minute ago, Harry said:

I initially thought Yes. 
But then, as with anything Jon says, I had to re-read it 5 times and pretend I had lost 3 trillion brain cells so that I was on a level, and then put myself in his position as a dribbling incompetent, and I then came to the same conclusion as you Fevs. 

I think it means that we’ve spoken to a few people over the last 3 years, none of which were prepared to pay what we wanted and so we’re still at square one. 

Yeah, no way are they in the process of selling/giving up some control at the moment. They're having way too much fun.

Any dissenting voices have been gotten rid of, and they are left running the gaff unchallenged, exactly how they like it. 

If you really were to get inside Jon's head then I guarantee that at the moment it's a very happy place. 

They'll be thinking they're doing a grand job at the moment. 11th placed finish, highest for a few years, and they'll be telling themselves the managerial switch was a significant part of that. 

Now this summer, Jon once again gets to play real-life Football Manager with his pal Brian. 

You can tell all of this because of the regularity that we are hearing from Jon. He thinks everyone is as chuffed as he is, so is beginning to come out of his hermit shell.

Trust me, they think the garden is looking pretty rosey at the moment...

[W-S-M Seagull]

6 minutes ago, Harry said:

 

I initially thought Yes. 
But then, as with anything Jon says, I had to re-read it 5 times and pretend I had lost 3 trillion brain cells so that I was on a level, and then put myself in his position as a dribbling incompetent who thinks he’s a great leader and uses the same phrases in most sentences, and I then came to the same conclusion as you Fevs. 

I think it means that we’ve spoken to a few people over the last 3 years, none of which were prepared to pay what we wanted and so we’re still at square one. 

I initially read it as "we've potentially found the right buyer but these things take a long time and because of that I'm not expecting anything to happen in the near future" 

But then I remembered its Jon speaking. 

[Simon bristol]

3 hours ago, formerly known as ivan said:

This is perfect to me and despite all the criticism, at least JL has set the marker. We’ve given Liam 6 months to adapt and learn the league, we now expect results.

As said above, the first 10 games will be huge next season, even more so now in my book.

If after 10 games we are in the playoff mix, job is being done. Next review would be Christmas time, are we still there. If we are not in play off contention at either of these two checkpoints, sorry Liam but your head is on the line.

To some degree that depends on what happens in the transfer window too, if we happen to get twine, plus another 3-4 million on a striker, and a million or 2 on a winger, then there wont be much patience, if those type of signings dont happen, im not sure liam will wait long enough to be fired. The thing is, even with those signings i just dont see us challenging, because we never do.

[ExiledAjax]

I wonder how far through the process any prospective buyer/investor has got?

Just chats? Confidentiality or exclusivity agreement? Due diligence? Heads of Terms? Doubt anyone has gone further than that, but I can imagine there is a dataroom somewhere that people take a look at.

[formerly known as ivan]

4 minutes ago, Simon bristol said:

To some degree that depends on what happens in the transfer window too, if we happen to get twine, plus another 3-4 million on a striker, and a million or 2 on a winger, then there wont be much patience, if those type of signings dont happen, im not sure liam will wait long enough to be fired. The thing is, even with those signings i just dont see us challenging, because we never do.

That’s up to those in charge. So if Manning fails, so do they.

[Harry]

1 hour ago, ExiledAjax said:

I wonder how far through the process any prospective buyer/investor has got?

Just chats? Confidentiality or exclusivity agreement? Due diligence? Heads of Terms? Doubt anyone has gone further than that, but I can imagine there is a dataroom somewhere that people take a look at.

As far as I know from the rumour mill - when he first put the club up for sale a couple of years ago there were a number of interested parties. Not one off big benefactors, but more the business-investment style groups. 
I’m certain 777 was one of them. 
There were others that were batted away immediately. 
So, with 777, it could be that Steve made a good call and pulled out, but I think the truth would more likely be that they weren’t anywhere close on price. 
I think 2 years ago they probably looked like a decent investor. 
I believe that with all talks, they’ve quickly stumbled when it comes to a few things :

1) Structure. We are the most complex of structures, more so than any other championship club that’s been available in the last few years. 
2) Ground. Steve ballsed up with the Ashton Vale situation and the Ashton Gate rebuild is not something some of the potential investors saw as a great facility. In terms of size rather than anything else. It’s a very good championship facility but if new owners have ambitions for Prem football, there are no grounds for expansion and many thought it’s too small to sustain a Prem club. 
3) The cost base at the club is ridiculous. (Mainly loaded with mates of Jon). There are reams and reams of positions that just aren’t required or provide very little value for money. When someone arrives and challenges this (Phil Alexander) they are quickly removed for asking too many questions and telling too many home truths. 
4) The people. I know that a party who were previously interested a couple of years ago were very satisfied with the Gould/Nige/Tins set up and felt they could really work with that. 
We are now miles away from that and I can’t see how any investors would currently be happy with how we’re set up. 
5) The price. Steve wants his money back. Basically. He might settle for being about £50million down as an absolute maximum but he basically wants his money back. 
That doesn’t make us a very attractive proposition when other championship clubs can be purchased for a lot less and without the complexity of the Bristol Sport model. 
 

So, short answer is, how far has anyone got, a lot closer a couple of years ago than they are now. 

[ExiledAjax]

22 minutes ago, Harry said:

As far as I know from the rumour mill - when he first put the club up for sale a couple of years ago there were a number of interested parties. Not one off big benefactors, but more the business-investment style groups. 
I’m certain 777 was one of them. 
There were others that were batted away immediately. 
So, with 777, it could be that Steve made a good call and pulled out, but I think the truth would more likely be that they weren’t anywhere close on price. 
I think 2 years ago they probably looked like a decent investor. 
I believe that with all talks, they’ve quickly stumbled when it comes to a few things :

1) Structure. We are the most complex of structures, more so than any other championship club that’s been available in the last few years. 
2) Ground. Steve ballsed up with the Ashton Vale situation and the Ashton Gate rebuild is not something some of the potential investors saw as a great facility. In terms of size rather than anything else. It’s a very good championship facility but if new owners have ambitions for Prem football, there are no grounds for expansion and many thought it’s too small to sustain a Prem club. 
3) The cost base at the club is ridiculous. (Mainly loaded with mates of Jon). There are reams and reams of positions that just aren’t required or provide very little value for money. When someone arrives and challenges this (Phil Alexander) they are quickly removed for asking too many questions and telling too many home truths. 
4) The people. I know that a party who were previously interested a couple of years ago were very satisfied with the Gould/Nige/Tins set up and felt they could really work with that. 
We are now miles away from that and I can’t see how any investors would currently be happy with how we’re set up. 
5) The price. Steve wants his money back. Basically. He might settle for being about £50million down as an absolute maximum but he basically wants his money back. 
That doesn’t make us a very attractive proposition when other championship clubs can be purchased for a lot less and without the complexity of the Bristol Sport model. 
 

So, short answer is, how far has anyone got, a lot closer a couple of years ago than they are now. 

I think I'd have guessed a lot of that.

The opinions on AG surprise me though. Ticket sales aren't a big part of a PL club's revenue, so I'd have thought most buyers wouldn't take that so seriously. If we were in the PL this season just finished we'd have had the 15th biggest stadium - smaller than the City Ground but bigger than Selhurst Park. Miles off the biggest stadia, and smaller than the 35/40k that would be average/standard. But still substantially larger than Bournemouth or Brentford. Plus it seems - to me at least - that the stadium does ok from concerts, arms fairs, and vegan conferences. So your number 2 surprises me.

Numbers 1, 3, 4, and 5 do not though. And really it's 1, 3, and 4 that make 5 so silly. 

Sort 1 (the commercial structure, not corporate. Our corporate structure is simple), 3, and 4 and I suspect we'd be a lot more attractive.

If 777 were interested then yes with the benefit of hindsight we dodged a bullet (even if done accidentally). 

I would absolutely expect us to be bought by a fund/consortium/group btw. I don't think sole owners are really playing at our level right now. Below in L1 and L2 yes, and higher up (if you can call an Emirate a "sole" purchaser), but not really at Champ level.

Edited May 20 by ExiledAjax

[W-S-M Seagull]

18 minutes ago, Harry said:

3) The cost base at the club is ridiculous. (Mainly loaded with mates of Jon). There are reams and reams of positions that just aren’t required or provide very little value for money. When someone arrives and challenges this (Phil Alexander) they are quickly removed for asking too many questions and telling too many home truths. 

This for me is the biggest thing that holds us back. Within the Bristol Sport empire it's not about having the best person for the job, its about who you know and how much arse licking you're prepared to do. 

This sets a culture of accepting low performances throughout the structure. Ultimately that translates to results on the pitch. 

I love this club. But it needs one hell of a massive clear out. But it won't happen because you have these people who know they are not suitable for the roles who will close ranks and push anyone out of the door who says those home truths. 

Lansdown Snr can be very ruthless, hence why he's a billionaire. But I think him and his son use that ruthlessness incorrectly in running this club. 

In my opinion they should have just let Alexander, Pearson and Tinnion do what was necessary and just let Jon play with his crayons. 

But instead they've created a nice cosy structure where no one is pushed to perform to their best and where they feel secure in their jobs regardless of ability. 

3 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

I think I'd have guessed a lot of that.

The opinions on AG surprise me though. Ticket sales aren't a big part of a PL club's revenue, so I'd have thought most buyers wouldn't take that so seriously. If we were in the PL this season just finished we'd have had the 15th biggest stadium - smaller than the City Ground but bigger than Selhurst Park. Miles off the biggest stadia, and smaller than the 35/40k that would be average/standard. But still substantially larger than Bournemouth or Brentford. Plus it seems - to me at least - that the stadium does ok from concerts, arms fairs, and vegan conferences. So your number 2 surprises me.

Numbers 1, 3, 4, and 5 do not though. And really it's 1, 3, and 4 that make 5 so silly. 

Sort 1, 3, and 4 and I suspect we'd be a lot more attractive.

If 777 were interested then yes with the benefit of hindsight we dodged a bullet (even if done accidentally). 

I would absolutely expect us to be bought by a fund/consortium/group btw. I don't think sole owners are really playing at our level right now. Below in L1 and L2 yes, and higher up (if you can call an Emirate a "sole" purchaser), but not really at Champ level.

I guess rather than tickets it's more the corporate side of things? Whilst we now have much improved facilities, it's still not enough for the top level and with little possibility of expanding those corporate facilities then that must come into play. 

[Harry]

39 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

I think I'd have guessed a lot of that.

The opinions on AG surprise me though. Ticket sales aren't a big part of a PL club's revenue, so I'd have thought most buyers wouldn't take that so seriously. If we were in the PL this season just finished we'd have had the 15th biggest stadium - smaller than the City Ground but bigger than Selhurst Park. Miles off the biggest stadia, and smaller than the 35/40k that would be average/standard. But still substantially larger than Bournemouth or Brentford. Plus it seems - to me at least - that the stadium does ok from concerts, arms fairs, and vegan conferences. So your number 2 surprises me.

Numbers 1, 3, 4, and 5 do not though. And really it's 1, 3, and 4 that make 5 so silly. 

Sort 1 (the commercial structure, not corporate. Our corporate structure is simple), 3, and 4 and I suspect we'd be a lot more attractive.

If 777 were interested then yes with the benefit of hindsight we dodged a bullet (even if done accidentally). 

I would absolutely expect us to be bought by a fund/consortium/group btw. I don't think sole owners are really playing at our level right now. Below in L1 and L2 yes, and higher up (if you can call an Emirate a "sole" purchaser), but not really at Champ level.

Regards the ground size. 
I was told that non tv income is roughly a third of overall income for top clubs. The new investors would have been looking at 35-40k capacity grounds rather than our 26k. It’s some way short. 
Yes there are smaller prem grounds currently but it’s still not an attractive proposition and I know questions were asked as to why the redevelopment had no future growth plans, especially as there have since been plans for other things in the area behind the Lansdown (ie the sporting quarter). That could easily have enabled a larger capacity. 
 

It’s all part of the overall picture though. Investors are not willing to pay the asking price for something that only has 26k punters as a max and thus vastly reduced income streams compared with the potential competitors in the prem, ie the other teams which these investors would have big plans for us to be competitive with. 

Edited May 20 by Harry

[Harry]

Sorry. To add to the above post. 
Any new ownership is not going to be buying this club for it to bumble around in the Championship. 
They will be paying serious money and want a serious club that can sustain prem football. The ground is very good for the championship. But it’s small-fry in the prem. 

Look at Birminghams new owners. St Andrews holds 29k. That’s 11.5% more than Ashton Gate. And it’s not big enough. They want a new 62k stadium. 
The Ashton Vale balls up is a big bum biter now that Steve wants out. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

16 minutes ago, Harry said:

Sorry. To add to the above post. 
Any new ownership is not going to be buying this club for it to bumble around in the Championship. 
They will be paying serious money and want a serious club that can sustain prem football. The ground is very good for the championship. But it’s small-fry in the prem. 

Look at Birminghams new owners. St Andrews holds 29k. That’s 11.5% more than Ashton Gate. And it’s not big enough. They want a new 62k stadium. 
The Ashton Vale balls up is a big bum biter now that Steve wants out. 

I agree that the PL would be the goal.

Otoh how much do e.g. Bournemouth and Brentford hold. Burnley too before they sold up and changed course. Sunderland hold 48k but went to League One. Apologies you've already covered this somewhat.

I don't fully disagree with you btw. Albeit the Ashton Vale issue, we were stuffed, what could we have done better or differently there.

The Sporting Quarter...Hard to say isn't it, Birmingham owners are looking to build a Sports Quarter and Hull owner has done similar. Under new FFP rules all Relevant income from kf could count towards our income while e.g. wages that are not football would be exempt. Could be useful.

Just on Birmingham, I'm struggling to see their ROI any time soon. I know it can be a long game..

Edited May 20 by Mr Popodopolous

[Loosey Boy]

6 minutes ago, Harry said:

Sorry. To add to the above post. 
Any new ownership is not going to be buying this club for it to bumble around in the Championship. 
They will be paying serious money and want a serious club that can sustain prem football. The ground is very good for the championship. But it’s small-fry in the prem. 

Look at Birminghams new owners. St Andrews holds 29k. That’s 11.5% more than Ashton Gate. And it’s not big enough. They want a new 62k stadium. 
The Ashton Vale balls up is a big bum biter now that Steve wants out. 

When the redevelopment of AG was undertaken, wasn’t it on the basis that it would be possible to put another tier on the South Stand?

 

[W-S-M Seagull]

9 minutes ago, Harry said:

The Ashton Vale balls up is a big bum biter now that Steve wants out. 

Not just that but even the redevelopment. 

I know I'm talking with hindsight now but as Lansdown now owns the land next to the stadium then it could have been possible to move the stadium over to create the space for expansion and still build the sporting quarter. 

[W-S-M Seagull]

4 minutes ago, Loosey Boy said:

When the redevelopment of AG was undertaken, wasn’t it on the basis that it would be possible to put another tier on the South Stand?

 

Yes it would be relatively easy to add another tier as it was designed that way. 

I also believe it's possible to add a mezzanine level in the concourse. 

[Ashtongreight]

21 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Yes it would be relatively easy to add another tier as it was designed that way. 

I also believe it's possible to add a mezzanine level in the concourse. 

It wouldn’t increase the capacity much would it, a couple of thousand at most I would have thought ?