Vyner, for Kenya

[cheddarwedlocker]

 

Afcon about to disrupt the HMS pss the league, pleased for him though..

[DaveF]

20 minutes ago, OliOTIB said:

 

Afcon about to disrupt the HMS pss the league, pleased for him though..

@TammyAB you must be livid...

[SydneyCity]

Emotionally, good on him. Playing international football is such an honour and it’s well deserved.

Rationally, if we do end up selling him then “Kenyan international, Zak Vyner” should generate a bit more cash than “mid-table Championship defender, Zak Vyner”.

[Northern Red]

They haven't often qualified for AFCON in recent years, although they are co-hosting it in 2027.

[Aaron-Bcfc]

7 hours ago, SydneyCity said:

Emotionally, good on him. Playing international football is such an honour and it’s well deserved.

Rationally, if we do end up selling him then “Kenyan international, Zak Vyner” should generate a bit more cash than “mid-table Championship defender, Zak Vyner”.

Kenya’s national team is very, very poor.

If anything it will knock a bit of value off his price tag. Flying halfway across the globe for international duty and potentially missing a month of a season through AFCON.

[ExiledAjax]

Good to see him respecting his heritage regardless of quality. That's what international football should be about.

[22A]

8 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Good to see him respecting his heritage regardless of quality. That's what international football should be about.

The Kenya national football team is known as The Harambee Stars. Harambee is a Kenyan tradition of community self-help events, e.g. fundraising or development activities. The word means "all pull together" in Swahili, and is the official motto of Kenya, appearing on its coat of arms.

[Gazred]

That's great for Zak and his family. I'm sure he will be very proud to turn out for them.

Looking at fixtures, they have a couple of WC qualification games coming up next month, assume he'll be in the squad for those.

[TammyAB]

8 hours ago, DaveF said:

@TammyAB you must be livid...

I don’t care when the African countries do it, just find it amusing when the British ones do.

Hal Robson-Kanu declaring for Wales is my favourite story.

[alexukhc]

1 hour ago, ExiledAjax said:

Good to see him respecting his heritage regardless of quality. That's what international football should be about.

This

[Peter1450]

Be able to give all the surplus stock fashion wear to the African kids too…..

[ExiledAjax]

44 minutes ago, TammyAB said:

I don’t care when the African countries do it, just find it amusing when the British ones do.

Hal Robson-Kanu declaring for Wales is my favourite story.

Yeh and then you can contrast players like Semenyo and Mainoo. I believe both have full Ghanaian parentage, but both born in the UK.

One goes for Ghana one for "England". The only difference is that one is considered good enough to play for a top "nation" and one isn't so he makes do. Nice for Mainoo that he'll get the higher profile, but you wonder what a player like Semenyo would say about it.

[Numero Uno]

Great work by the Kenyan Admin. Sign them up.

[TammyAB]

21 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Yeh and then you can contrast players like Semenyo and Mainoo. I believe both have full Ghanaian parentage, but both born in the UK.

One goes for Ghana one for "England". The only difference is that one is considered good enough to play for a top "nation" and one isn't so he makes do. Nice for Mainoo that he'll get the higher profile, but you wonder what a player like Semenyo would say about it.

I think the rule should be you can’t play for a nation you’ve never lived in and don’t plan on living in either.

 

Can imagine Wales and Northern Ireland falling sharply down the rankings after that.

[Numero Uno]

19 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Yeh and then you can contrast players like Semenyo and Mainoo. I believe both have full Ghanaian parentage, but both born in the UK.

One goes for Ghana one for "England". The only difference is that one is considered good enough to play for a top "nation" and one isn't so he makes do. Nice for Mainoo that he'll get the higher profile, but you wonder what a player like Semenyo would say about it.

Personal choice at the end of the day. Neither is breaking the rules nor doing anything wrong. You can argue one has accepted the higher competition for a place and one hasn’t. That’s the gamble, Mainoo could lose a bit of form or “get worked out” (it happens), albeit he looks to have the ability and football intelligence for that not to happen, and not be seen in an England shirt again whilst at the same time Semenyo is picking up his 40th cap.

It could also be down to one considers themselves more English than Ghanaian and vice versa.

[Numero Uno]

8 minutes ago, TammyAB said:

I think the rule should be you can’t play for a nation you’ve never lived in and don’t plan on living in either.

 

Can imagine Wales and Northern Ireland falling sharply down the rankings after that.

So you buy a property in Newport or Belfast, rent it out, and say “that’s where I’m living when I retire”………

[ExiledAjax]

4 minutes ago, TammyAB said:

I think the rule should be you can’t play for a nation you’ve never lived in and don’t plan on living in either.

Can imagine Wales and Northern Ireland falling sharply down the rankings after that.

Yeh that's one solution. Either way there should be a decision as to whether it's decided by blood, birthplace or citizenship because the current system just makes a mockery of international football.

They'd all have issues and be open to manipulation, but that happens already.

5 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Neither is breaking the rules nor doing anything wrong.

Sure, I'm just saying the rules are stupid.

[TammyAB]

2 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

So you buy a property in Newport or Belfast, rent it out, and say “that’s where I’m living when I retire”………

Yep. You need the Welsh granny too mind.

[Numero Uno]

1 minute ago, ExiledAjax said:

Yeh that's one solution. Either way there should be a decision as to whether it's decided by blood, birthplace or citizenship because the current system just makes a mockery of international football.

They'd all have issues and be open to manipulation, but that happens already.

Sure, I'm just saying the rules are stupid.

Unless you go down a very strict rule of Birthplace only there will be ways to get round the system.

[Numero Uno]

4 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Yeh that's one solution. Either way there should be a decision as to whether it's decided by blood, birthplace or citizenship because the current system just makes a mockery of international football.

They'd all have issues and be open to manipulation, but that happens already.

Sure, I'm just saying the rules are stupid.

Who is wrong though? I’m guessing Semenyo is and Mainoo isn’t?

[ExiledAjax]

3 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Who is wrong though? I’m guessing Semenyo is and Mainoo isn’t?

I'm not sure it matters really. But in my opinion if the purpose of international football is to determine which nation is the best then you'd have a better chance of doing that with a consistent rule around representation. Currently there's too much choice for players, and too much of the Welsh example of desperately trying to find good players with one random grandparent born in the Welsh bit of Chester. It's a shame as it means we end up with a greater degree of homogeneity at that level, and we don't distinguish the cultures represented as much as we could.

If I was in charge I'd probably lean more towards blood than birth, thus meaning Mainoo should join Semenyo and the Black Stars, but I'd not die on that hill.

[Kid in the Riot]

20 minutes ago, TammyAB said:

I think the rule should be you can’t play for a nation you’ve never lived in and don’t plan on living in either.

Can imagine Wales and Northern Ireland falling sharply down the rankings after that.

Mental. Just because you are born and raised in one country it doesn't mean you can't be of another nationality. 

Also, particularly in the case of people born and raised in the UK who often have a parent from more than one nation (like me) then why couldn't they choose which country they turn out for?

Swear it's only some England fans (presumably all 100% English thoroughbreds!) that get so exercised about these rules. 

[TammyAB]

Just now, Kid in the Riot said:

Mental. Just because you are born and raised in one country it doesn't mean you can't be of another nationality. 

Also, particularly in the case of people born and raised in the UK who often have a parent from more than one nation (like me) then why couldn't they choose which country they turn out for?

Swear it's only some England fans (presumably all 100% English thoroughbreds!) that get so exercised about these rules. 

Because if you were born in, raised, educated and worked in England, but play for Wales because of a Gran, you are no representation of how good Wales are at football because they have had no input into your development as a player.

[TammyAB]

2 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Mental. Just because you are born and raised in one country it doesn't mean you can't be of another nationality. 

Also, particularly in the case of people born and raised in the UK who often have a parent from more than one nation (like me) then why couldn't they choose which country they turn out for?

Swear it's only some England fans (presumably all 100% English thoroughbreds!) that get so exercised about these rules. 

Hal Robson-Kanu scored Wales’ probably most famous goal and he didn’t even know he was part-Welsh about four years earlier

[Numero Uno]

6 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

I'm not sure it matters really. But in my opinion if the purpose of international football is to determine which nation is the best then you'd have a better chance of doing that with a consistent rule around representation. Currently there's too much choice for players, and too much of the Welsh example of desperately trying to find good players with one random grandparent born in the Welsh bit of Chester. It's a shame as it means we end up with a greater degree of homogeneity at that level, and we don't distinguish the cultures represented as much as we could.

If I was in charge I'd probably lean more towards blood than birth, thus meaning Mainoo should join Semenyo and the Black Stars, but I'd not die on that hill.

Can’t agree with your last point. Mainoo is born in England, raised in England, educated in England and learned to play football in England. To rule he can’t then play for England is madness. If his parents were from Fiji you would be asking him to travel to the other side of the world to represent a Conference South outfit!!

[Kid in the Riot]

3 minutes ago, TammyAB said:

Because if you were born in, raised, educated and worked in England, but play for Wales because of a Gran, you are no representation of how good Wales are at football because they have had no input into your development as a player.

The "welsh gran" thing is overplayed though, isn't it?

Wales' best players over the last decade the likes of Bale, Ramsay and Allen are pretty Welsh, aren't they?

You hear people mentioning Ampadu ffs, his mother is Welsh and he's played for Wales since 15! Why shouldn't he be able to play for Wales? 

 

[TammyAB]

Just now, Kid in the Riot said:

The "welsh gran" thing is overplayed though, isn't it?

Wales' best players over the last decade the likes of Bale, Ramsay and Allen are pretty Welsh, aren't they?

You hear people mentioning Ampadu ffs, his mother is Welsh and he's played for Wales since 15! Why shouldn't he be able to play for Wales? 

 

Bale Ramsey and Allen are Welsh.

I don’t know about Ampadu, depends if he’s ever lived in Wales or is planning on doing so in the future.

Obviously this is just how I judge them, and not FIFA so don’t worry he’s safe to play for them.

[Kid in the Riot]

Just now, TammyAB said:

Bale Ramsey and Allen are Welsh.

I don’t know about Ampadu, depends if he’s ever lived in Wales or is planning on doing so in the future.

Obviously this is just how I judge them, and not FIFA so don’t worry he’s safe to play for them.

It's an interesting discussion. You'll be horrified to hear I have mates born and raised 100% in England who have only ever had Irish passports. They are Irish, and no-one is going to tell them otherwise, and so I think your proposed rule is way too hard and fast. 

[ExiledAjax]

7 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Mainoo is born in England, raised in England, educated in England and learned to play football in England.

So here's the dichotomy of the current rules. You've got one Ghanaian brought up in the UK who's saying he's English.

5 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

It's an interesting discussion. You'll be horrified to hear I have mates born and raised 100% in England who have only ever had Irish passports. They are Irish, and no-one is going to tell them otherwise, and so I think your proposed rule is way too hard and fast. 

Then you've got Kid's mates going for their blood heritage, and aligning their citizenship with that over their lived experience.

So there's my issue. No consistency and so international football has no hope of actually figuring out which country is best at football.

[Kid in the Riot]

6 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

So here's the dichotomy of the current rules. You've got one Ghanaian brought up in the UK who's saying he's English.

Then you've got Kid's mates going for their blood heritage, and aligning their citizenship with that over their lived experience.

So there's my issue. No consistency and so international football has no hope of actually figuring out which country is best at football.

Isn't defining your nationality a personal choice though? Why should a set of football rules define it? Everyone's lived experience is going to be different.

I absolutely understand why you could have a Ghanaian that has grown up in England and wants to play for England, and an Irish man who has grown up in England and would play for Ireland. I don't see a contradiction. These are individual, and often very personal, choices. 

Also, I don't think the rules make a significant impact in determining which country is better at football.