Antman Posted January 2, 2005 Report Share Posted January 2, 2005 Now our Brian states that young (only just 20) Lita showed great energy and enthusiasm when he came on on Saturday. Interesting that, it looked to me like he huffed and puffed with absolutely no end result. In fact rather like he has been doing for the last few games. Is it me? do I miss the magical interplay and silky passing that the lad contributes? (Goals have dried up a bit too) but Heffernan looks a better bet at the moment. I do hope he doesn't revert to Lita/Brooker on Monday, and that he sticks with the Heff, because it would be a major kick in the confidence for Heff if he were dropped after yesterdays game. My final moan, Dear Leroy, stop the 'outraged protests' when you get shoved off the ball or pushed over. Standing (usually kneeling) with your arms out wide pleading for a decision isn't going to make the ref change his mind. Why not get up (quickly) and get the ball back? instead of letting team mates clear up after you. Before the protests start, I like the player, and I like the 17 goals even more, but sometimes Brian keeps him on when he is contributing sweet FA. and I don't get that, when Heff has proved he is equally dangerous. (look at HIS return from the games he has played) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taz Posted January 2, 2005 Report Share Posted January 2, 2005 Well said, would love to say I disagree with you but I don't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTRed Posted January 2, 2005 Report Share Posted January 2, 2005 It was confusing and disappointing for me that in a game that we were comfortably in command of 2-0 that BT introduced Lita. This was the ideal situation in which to leave him on the bench and give him a much needed break. I can only think that the reason for his appearance was to add some liveliness and pace in attack thus stretching and pressuring the 'Boro backline. For me Marc Goodfellow could have done that job and staked a claim for a regular position in the squad. All coaches have our views though and I am not criticizing Brian, merely pointing out my thoughts. Happy with the points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andre_The_Giant Posted January 2, 2005 Report Share Posted January 2, 2005 Antman, your comments about Leroy are tosh. When Leroy is shoved of the ball he is straight back up again. My main criticism of him would be that he doesn't dive in the penalty area enough! As for letting the other players 'clear up for him', Leroy has shown all season how committed he is, not just scoring goals but as a genuine team player, who frankly has shown more enthusiasm this season than anybody else in the squad. Why knock our 20-year old top scorer? BS4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tinman's Cider Army Posted January 2, 2005 Report Share Posted January 2, 2005 Antman, your comments about Leroy are tosh. When Leroy is shoved of the ball he is straight back up again. My main criticism of him would be that he doesn't dive in the penalty area enough! ← IMHO Leroy is a goal poacher and that is shown by is 17 goals but he doesn't contribute as much as Heffernan who is now growing in confidence and scoring goals. As for wanting Lita to go down more easily I feel that he is now unfortunately becoming known to referees and opposition for going down to easily. That said, I did like his shorts yesterday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screech Posted January 2, 2005 Report Share Posted January 2, 2005 I still can'tget to grips why so many people have this gripe with Lita, what more does a goalscorer have to do than score important goals. He's young and learning the game, he has the knack of scoring already and with more games behind him, improve his overall game. Fair enough he has scored 1 in 10 but bloody hell 17 goals for half a season in your first real season is fantastic. It beggars belief what some of you want up front, what has this kid done so wrong in his first season, you'll all be moaning if he was sold and the goals go missing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest silkman Posted January 2, 2005 Report Share Posted January 2, 2005 Antman, your comments about Leroy are tosh. When Leroy is shoved of the ball he is straight back up again. My main criticism of him would be that he doesn't dive in the penalty area enough! As for letting the other players 'clear up for him', Leroy has shown all season how committed he is, not just scoring goals but as a genuine team player, who frankly has shown more enthusiasm this season than anybody else in the squad. Why knock our 20-year old top scorer? BS4 ← Lita is a one season wonder. If Heffernan had the same opportunities as Lita I believe City would be further up the table. City usually create plenty of opportunities therefore Lita is bound to score a few.Heffernan may not score more than Lita but he will create many more chances for his team-mates than Lita would in a month of Sundays. Lita - a team player???? Lita showing enthusiasm???? (the only time I have seen him genuinely committed are vs Luton after the crowd booed when Brooker was taken off when it should have been Lita and he knew it). To sum up Lita:- 1. He falls over more than Leon Knight. 2. He has a poor first touch - many City moves break down when the ball goes to Lita. 3. When balls are played into his feet - he is almost without fail beaten to it by the defender. 4. He only closes down defenders when the crowd gets on his (or the teams) back. 5. He has no football brain - he reacts to situations rather than anticipating them - which unfortunately negates most of the advantage of his pace. I agree that the defensive frailties of City are responsible to a large degree for their position in the table but I do think that Tinnion has to look beyond Lita's goals. Other teams have sussed him out and we need players who have more skill,guile,footballing brain etc on the park. If Tinnion persists with Lita, City will be lucky to make the play-offs. Why can't City fans/management see that barely adequate over-rated players(and there have been many over the years) such as Lita flatter to deceive and are the reason why City are and will remain a LOWER DIVISION SIDE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andre_The_Giant Posted January 2, 2005 Report Share Posted January 2, 2005 >>>>>>>>>>To sum up Lita:- 1. He falls over more than Leon Knight. 2. He has a poor first touch - many City moves break down when the ball goes to Lita. 3. When balls are played into his feet - he is almost without fail beaten to it by the defender. 4. He only closes down defenders when the crowd gets on his (or the teams) back. 5. He has no football brain - he reacts to situations rather than anticipating them - which unfortunately negates most of the advantage of his pace.<<<<<<<< Hi silkman. Of course, I respect your opinions as a fellow City supporter but I find your '5 insights' unbelieveable! You see a lazy player, I see one who is absolutely committed with running, with tackling and with scoring goals from nothing. Not to mention the amount of headers he wins for such a small guy. You see a one season wonder (we'll see about that!) and I see a young striker destined to play at a higher level (hopefully with us). You see a player who falls over (can't really remember any times he has done this deliberately) and I see one who stands up. You see a player who responds when the crowd are on his back, I see a crowd who shout "Leroy, Leroy" even when he's missed a chance or had one saved. It's all about opinions, clearly we are watching a different player! I think Heffernan has done well in the games he's been given too, it really is healthy to have these two quality players vying for the same spot. Regards, BS4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chivs Posted January 2, 2005 Report Share Posted January 2, 2005 I still can'tget to grips why so many people have this gripe with Lita, what more does a goalscorer have to do than score important goals. ← How about defend for starters? The best forwards lead the defensive line. Lita is just awful at this side of the game. As others have said, his first touch is terrible which means the passes to him often result in our defenders having to defend the resulting punt out by the opposition defenders. This puts us under pressure constantly. It's no coincidence that our defence has been less capable since Lita has starting playing regularly. If the oppo defenders try to walk the ball out of defence Lita never attempts to close them down (because he's normally lying on the floor claiming a freekick). As you say though, his 17 goals are very welcome and he should be able to learn the art of defending for the team. If he does, he could be a great player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screech Posted January 2, 2005 Report Share Posted January 2, 2005 So our crap defending is his fault? This kid has faults in his game, who doesn't? But the fact remains he's young enough to get even better, his role in the side is to score goals and he's doing a good job IMO. As far as I'm concerned he's one of very few who are actually doing what he's supposed to be doing. His touch is no worse than a few others in the side. His primary job is to get on the end of crosses and make space for himself to poach goals, why on earth is he getting lumbered with responsibilty for defending when he's a striker. The kid is a doing a great job, lets just concentrate on the things he's supposed to be doing, I think people listen to much to the cliche's managers come up with about defending from the front, utter tripe, we have a midfield which is supposed to protect the back four and supply the forwards with the ball, strikers are there for scoring goals, and he's the best at the club for doing it, it's a natural talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest redcard Posted January 2, 2005 Report Share Posted January 2, 2005 How about defend for starters? The best forwards lead the defensive line. Lita is just awful at this side of the game. As others have said, his first touch is terrible which means the passes to him often result in our defenders having to defend the resulting punt out by the opposition defenders. This puts us under pressure constantly. It's no coincidence that our defence has been less capable since Lita has starting playing regularly. Can't believe i am reading this, have you all got bad memories??? 17 Goals at the half way stage, terrible touch, unable to head a ball only work when he feels like it reminds me of last year only Peacock never managed to score the goals. If he had, you would all have been singing his praises. It's all about goals if you have players that can score from nothing you are always in with a chance. Finally, we have that this year and you are still complaining. :@ :@ Support the lad it can only be a possitive for Bristol City!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
England Posted January 2, 2005 Report Share Posted January 2, 2005 Oh dear - I've heard all this tripe so many times about our new boy wonder as in Marvin Brown, Damien Spencer, Kevin Amankwaah etc - Lita has proved himself better in one important respect, scoring a good few goals for which City should be grateful but he is still a poor footballer and good defenders wouldn't give him a sniff especially as he is a diver and moaner. A good coach - which City doesn't have - may be able to develop him into a half decent player in time but I won't hold my breath waiting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rednready Posted January 2, 2005 Report Share Posted January 2, 2005 Leroys season has been in two parts. The good part 16 goals in 23 games. Then the opposition did their homework. The second and not so good part is 1 goal in the last 10 games, thats 1 goal since he scored 2 months ago against Brentford? If any clubs key striker scores once in two months that IS a concern. We have Heffs and Gillespie who can do the job, and both are better ball players. Leroy started the season very well, but i believe he should come on from the bench for at least January. Half time, 60 minutes, it depends on the opposition. Some players work better against certain defenders. I will be very interested to see if Nelson Handles Brooker as easily as he handled Lita, thats a clash i want to see, especially as Nelson is transfer listed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barneyredballs Posted January 2, 2005 Report Share Posted January 2, 2005 True: Currently Lita is too easily pushed/tackled/nudged off the ball Currently Lita is not linking up as much play as we would like Currently Lita is having a dry spell He is one of those v.lucky boys who can score goals, both because we create lots, but also because he gets in those positions to convert. He is 19 years old in his first proper season, with loads of attention and hype currently surrounding him Untrue: He is not commited - granted frustrating when he gets nudged off balls, but he does always, always get back up and get on with it One season wonder... We'll have to wait and see, but instinct says if you can score, you can score! Gillespie has not shown he can yet do a job - looks good and keen, but hasn't yet converted. Think LL he may struggle in January, but once transfer window is closed and he is still here, think he might start to bang them in again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest No9. Posted January 2, 2005 Report Share Posted January 2, 2005 It was confusing and disappointing for me that in a game that we were comfortably in command of 2-0 that BT introduced Lita. This was the ideal situation in which to leave him on the bench and give him a much needed break. I can only think that the reason for his appearance was to add some liveliness and pace in attack thus stretching and pressuring the 'Boro backline. For me Marc Goodfellow could have done that job and staked a claim for a regular position in the squad. ← I think the reasons tins brought him on was to rest brooker before tomorrows game after all the guy was pretty ill over christmas, lost a fair bit of weight but was all over the place running his socks off yesterday. Probably realised that Lita would be on the bench again tomorrow so wants to make sure brooker is 100%. Thought the front two were the only real positive from yesterdays game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godzilla Posted January 2, 2005 Report Share Posted January 2, 2005 It is difficult to fault Leroy Lita on the first half the season. At such a young age, his 17 goals have been a fantastic return. He is a pure goalscorer, he is one of the few players at the club that can score a goal out of nothing (his winner at Walsall, for instance). He wins a lot of headers for a small player, has a powerful right boot, and is always direct with the ball at his feet. Yet, when I say he is a pure goalscorer, he is nothing more. What does he contribute to the team as a defensive unit? How many goals does he create for other players? I don't mean a final pass or touch, but a run to drag a defender away, to create space for others. The fact is, he is an individual. Paul Heffernan might not smash 30 yard piledrivers into the corner from out of nothing. But what he has got is a fantastic work-ethic, a terrific brain, and an equally good first touch. And his finish on Saturday speaks volumes for his ruthlesness infront of goal, too. Would we have seen Lita produce that little dink over the sprawling keeper? I wonder. Heffernan has a natural footballing brain, to make the right choices on and off the ball, at the right time. It's unfair to single out Lita for not having this ability, when in reality, very few players at this level have it! If I'm picking the best front two on footballing ability and for the benefit of the team, sorry Leroy, but it's Heffernan and Brooker every time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godzilla Posted January 3, 2005 Report Share Posted January 3, 2005 I know exactly what you're saying, but ; Lineker Anelka Owen etc etc All did/do the business - loads of goals but not a lot more. OK the level is different, but the context is the same. We were saying the same about Thorpe. It's about getting the right balance I suppose. ← But the three you mention, how many league title's have they won between them? In my opinion, having a player that can score goals, and having a player that can score goals and link up the play, is the difference between being a good side, and a championship side. After all, it's a team game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rednready Posted January 3, 2005 Report Share Posted January 3, 2005 Lita is 20, say it again 20, thats in his prime, Scott Brown and Gillespie will soon be 20, how old do they have to be???? Tins has an age mindset based on himself. He managed to stay competitive until 36, but in a lower slower division. Thats why Bell, Murray, Smith, Butler and himself are not old and slow, and get plenty of auto selections because he does not see them as any slower......they are younger than him. We will lose some of our best 18-20 year olds this year due to lack of opportunity and no worthwhile reserve grade division as in the 50's. A great shame and the ignominy is some of these younger guys are better than the 30 ish players being selected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bransonmo Posted January 3, 2005 Report Share Posted January 3, 2005 True: Currently Lita is too easily pushed/tackled/nudged off the ball Currently Lita is not linking up as much play as we would like Currently Lita is having a dry spell He is one of those v.lucky boys who can score goals, both because we create lots, but also because he gets in those positions to convert. He is 19 years old in his first proper season, with loads of attention and hype currently surrounding him Untrue: He is not commited - granted frustrating when he gets nudged off balls, but he does always, always get back up and get on with it One season wonder... We'll have to wait and see, but instinct says if you can score, you can score! Gillespie has not shown he can yet do a job - looks good and keen, but hasn't yet converted. Think LL he may struggle in January, but once transfer window is closed and he is still here, think he might start to bang them in again! ← Barney, Heffs has done the job when given the chance,Gillespie...???? has started in 1 yes 1 league game and 1 cup game. How does that give him a chance to show if he can do the job. His chances will remain limited but as a play maker/striker he is a great player to have available. Given 25+ starts Heffs and Gilly could have equalled Litas goals and probably created more. Its all hypothetical, and there will always be good players left out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barneyredballs Posted January 3, 2005 Report Share Posted January 3, 2005 We have Heffs and Gillespie who can do the job, and both are better ball players. Leroy started the season very well, but i believe he should come on from the bench for at least January. Half time, 60 minutes, it depends on the opposition. Some players work better against certain defenders. I will be very interested to see if Nelson Handles Brooker as easily as he handled Lita, thats a clash i want to see, especially as Nelson is transfer listed. I was replying to Rednreadys comment. Hypothetical maybe, but we have not yet seen Gillespie can do the job. When we're talking strikers, I'm afraid they are generally graded on goals scored. Remember Gillespie has never scored a first team goal anywhere, Heff has done it at this level before; so we know he can do the job. I hope one day Gillespie is also a regular scorer, but as of yet we have no proof of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jamesonjoe Posted January 3, 2005 Report Share Posted January 3, 2005 I definitely think some of the critisms of Leroy Lita have been over the top. The lad has done really well for city this season scoring 17 goals.He has beaten last seasons top scorer by a mile and its only the begining of January. Its seems to me that critism and praise for that matter can be exagerrated on the forum.Its fantastic that City have such good forwards and it will continue to give the manager selection choices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucksred Posted January 3, 2005 Report Share Posted January 3, 2005 Lita is a one season wonder. If Heffernan had the same opportunities as Lita I believe City would be further up the table. City usually create plenty of opportunities therefore Lita is bound to score a few.Heffernan may not score more than Lita but he will create many more chances for his team-mates than Lita would in a month of Sundays. Lita - a team player???? Lita showing enthusiasm???? (the only time I have seen him genuinely committed are vs Luton after the crowd booed when Brooker was taken off when it should have been Lita and he knew it). To sum up Lita:- 1. He falls over more than Leon Knight. 2. He has a poor first touch - many City moves break down when the ball goes to Lita. 3. When balls are played into his feet - he is almost without fail beaten to it by the defender. 4. He only closes down defenders when the crowd gets on his (or the teams) back. 5. He has no football brain - he reacts to situations rather than anticipating them - which unfortunately negates most of the advantage of his pace. I agree that the defensive frailties of City are responsible to a large degree for their position in the table but I do think that Tinnion has to look beyond Lita's goals. Other teams have sussed him out and we need players who have more skill,guile,footballing brain etc on the park. If Tinnion persists with Lita, City will be lucky to make the play-offs. Why can't City fans/management see that barely adequate over-rated players(and there have been many over the years) such as Lita flatter to deceive and are the reason why City are and will remain a LOWER DIVISION SIDE. ← I'd agree with this, and I got caned for saying this earlier. Heffernan is looking sharp, and NO player here is bigger than the club, so stick with him, as long as hes performing. Bench Warming when he or anyone else aint performing. Its what a squad is for, competing for first team selection, to the benefit of Bristol City Football Club, and us the long suffering fans not our individual favorite players, much as we like them, and dislike others Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zookeeper Posted January 3, 2005 Report Share Posted January 3, 2005 I'd agree with this, and I got caned for saying this earlier. Heffernan is looking sharp, and NO player here is bigger than the club, so stick with him, as long as hes performing. Bench Warming when he or anyone else aint performing. Its what a squad is for, competing for first team selection, to the benefit of Bristol City Football Club, and us the long suffering fans not our individual favorite players, much as we like them, and dislike others ← Haven't you also stated that Lita would never get dropped by Tinnion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cider red Posted January 3, 2005 Report Share Posted January 3, 2005 Your always going to get this with lita , how many times have we had this debate now? I agree with the original post , but some people don't like any critism of our young striker. He had been out of form for some while now , and i think it was only fair that heff was given his chance , and he took it. Its now down to leroy wether he gets back in the team or not. He'll certainly have to do better than saturday if he's to get his starting place back. PULL YOUR SHORTS UP LEROY! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlokeCDP Posted January 3, 2005 Report Share Posted January 3, 2005 Haven't you also stated that Lita would never get dropped by Tinnion? ← Well he hasnt yet has he? Sat on the bench isnt dropping him completely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zookeeper Posted January 3, 2005 Report Share Posted January 3, 2005 Your always going to get this with lita , how many times have we had this debate now? I agree with the original post , but some people don't like any critism of our young striker. He had been out of form for some while now , and i think it was only fair that heff was given his chance , and he took it. Its now down to leroy wether he gets back in the team or not. He'll certainly have to do better than saturday if he's to get his starting place back. PULL YOUR SHORTS UP LEROY! ← If some player comes in and plays well then he should stay in the team. No player is too big for the club. I'm not disagreeing just asking a question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cider red Posted January 3, 2005 Report Share Posted January 3, 2005 If some player comes in and plays well then he should stay in the team. No player is too big for the club. I'm not disagreeing just asking a question. ← My original comment wasnt aimed at you zookeeper , just the original post. I just think that some people have blinkers on when it comes to lita. Yes he's young and still learning. And he's having a very good season , and if he ends up with 17 goals he still will have had a good season. But if he's not playing well he should be dropped just like anyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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