Sums Up Tommy

[spongebob]

I think being unfit after 33 games, suspended twice already this season, for picking up ten yellows, most of which are for gob and one of which was AFTER a game, it shouldn't be paying customers that are transferred.

I think you should join the manager and chairman on the rocky road to undisciplined failure.

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You obviously were not there yesterday or if you were were not watching the incident that led to his booking. There was foul, on Danns i thikn which he took offence to, he got up and stood up to the doc, they had words then someone else got involved threw an arm at the doc and scott brown, the doc walked away and then the ref after talking to both assistants, booked the 2 colchester players and the doc.

I am most certainly not tommy docs biggest fan and have been, in recent weeks, one of his biggest critics. Unlike tins i thought scott brown was motm, but the doc played well, and was harshly booked.

[Bristol Boy]

Bristol Boy for someone that supports city you really don't seem to have a clue about football!

Couple of points here.

Supporting City has nothing to do with "knowing about football!" In fact, at times, it must be a positive boon for some.

Why are you complaining all the time about a player when he plays and helps win the game for us?

Right,let's clear that one up.Your question actually answers itself, in a way, when you say, "when he plays."

My post says, MOM,according to Tinnion-That's good!

Then, knowing he's on a tenth yellow,he get's booked,not for a passionate, goal saving, but possibly mistimed, tackle.

No.

Gob-needless & very late on.

This player who, WHEN HE PLAYS, helps win the game for us, now cannot play for 2 of the next 3 games, having already been suspended before,lost fitness & form to the point where the manager won't pick him.

Having now impressed the manager, who wants to "pick him every week," and "won us the game," he's suspended and CAN'T PLAY!!

A disciplinary problem can be fixed

Yes, but only if the player contributes and Tommy's had this problem a while now

but you cant as easily coach a new player as good as him.

If you mean you can't make Mark Goodfellow into Tommy, I agree,but I've never criticised Tommy's ability, just his attitude, fitness and temprement.

That won't improve with missing games-leading to more mistimed/late tackles and bookings, as he's frustrated by HIS OWN inability to perform at the height of his powers, he'll gob off more and the next suspension's 3 games, I think?

I am by no means saying he is the finished article but he is definitely one of the clubs better players!

1.When he CAN play.

2.When he's fit.

3.When his mind's right.

I agree

As for marrying cousins isn't that a bit of a pointless thing to say?

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And agreeing with "your mate" that I should **** off and watch the Gas, isn't, I suppose?

[Bristol Boy]

You obviously were not there yesterday or if you were were not watching the incident that led to his booking.

Yeh, sorry,that must be about three of our thirty three games, I've missed this season

There was foul, on Danns i thikn which he took offence to, he got up and stood up to the doc, they had words

That was the time to walk away.He must learn how to "play refs" Watch Shearer.

then someone else got involved threw an arm at the doc and scott brown, the doc walked away and then the ref after talking to both assistants, booked the 2 colchester players and the doc.

I am most certainly not tommy docs biggest fan and have been, in recent weeks, one of his biggest critics. Unlike tins i thought scott brown was motm, but the doc played well, and was harshly booked.

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In that case, can we ask the referee to recind the decision on video evidence, if that booking's leading to a suspension?

I know that's possible with two yellows and a sending off.

The problem is that Tommy's reputation goes before him and, like it or not, Referees talk and he's a marked man.

In fairness, that's one yellow, how about the other nine, one of which came after the game at Chesterfield?

If he goes on like this, he'll struggle to play enough games to stay fit and that'll ruin his career.

That's just sad for Tommy & City.

[Bristol Boy]

I think we should draw a line under the whole Tommy D debacle. He turned down a loan move to Qpr and Plymouth due to his own reasons. He wants to play for the club. He has to sort out his stupid bookings for dissent but only he can do that. It was ironic that from listening to the game on the radio yesterday he sweetly took the ball off Craig Fagan who has just returned from a two match ban from reaching 10 yellows and 1 red. I wonder if his fans give him stick???

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Actually they do!

It cost him his job at Birmingham.

His team mates certainly do, as Colchester slide down the table, because they have a smaller squad than us and suspensions hit them harder.

In a funny way, the suspension of Orr, Dinning & Tinnion, could have done us a real favour and opened the managers eyes into following the fans recommendation in selecting Brown

[Bristol Boy]

Or I could have put it like that. 

Yes, but not being bright enough to come up with it stopped you

You're in a minority of one, Bristol Boy.

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Just refresh my memory, Nick, how many votes did you get in poster of the year?

As Clive Woodward said, "Being in a minority of one, doesn't mean your wrong!"

I'll agree with the World Cup Winner.

Looking at the stick that Tommy's got on here and the performances and behaviour that led to him being publicy stripped on the captaincy, I wouldn't even say it's true.

[Bristol Boy]

I remain pretty confident that both TommyD and Danny Coles will react in the right way to what has gone on recently and of the two of them I've always been more hopeful that TommyD would react well.

Today he played really well and deserves credit for that. But bookings for things like dissent are so so stupid. He really really needs to cut that out.

He has the talent and he has to commitment on the pitch. This is enough to make him a good player in this division.

But little things like fitness and stupid suspensions are what are holding him back from playing in the division above. It's really up to him where his career goes from here.

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Spot On!

Their playing careers are in their hands and if they perform to the best of their ability, most weeks, they'll play on merit.

The point with Tommy is that you can't be a good player if you're sat in the stand!

[Bristol Boy]

It has occured to me after logging on this morning, that Bristol Boy must be the Saddest Poster--Gold Medalist. He spent his whole Saturday evening trying to justify criticising one of the finest players at the club, when he had no idea of the facts behind Tommys booking at Colchester. May I suggest you spend your Saturday nights more constructively, perhaps you could colour in a book, build a model out of matchsticks or alternatively, get a life!

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Whereas you, after being sent to bed by your mum, no doubt,leapt out of bed to log on this morning and go into "great detail" about how Tommy's a "role model."

Constructive?

Have you read some of the nonsense, you've written......Role Model?

The facts are, that Tommy's been booked for the tenth time in about 20 starts and misses Blackpool & Luton.

Oh and a life is 24/7, not "Saturday night"

[Rednready]

Hey BB, guess what, you must have the tall poppy syndrome, the kids are trying to chop you down. don't worry its a planned attack according to my niece, picking on you and other informed sources. Like wind, it will pass.

[robins72]

i think on this form it's called constructive critisism in "most cases"

[Bristol Boy]

Bristol Boy, I'm not going to say ##** off to the Gas, as others have done, though I can understand their feelings. You're a 100% City fan and care about this club.

Actually, I can't understand their feelings and most of them don't express themselves very eloquently

I don't mind anyone disagreeing, but this excusal philosophy when it comes to discipline, is at the heart of our inconsistency.

But you really seem to have it in for TommyD.

I think you'll find that Orr, Dinning, Tinnion, Murray, Butler,Bell, Coles et all, have all had as much as Tommy, if not more.This is one of a very few Doherty postings I've started and there's been plenty

What you appear to be unable to understand is that with Tommy, what you see is what you get. It's the whole package.

That's incorrect.That's a bit like saying, if you've got a young player and he's drinks like a fish and smokes like a trooper, let him, because it's in his make up.

I've coached players and managed large teams of people for about 27 years now and that's a mile from the truth.

It's not true about Tommy and I'll tell you why I say that.

Even last season, when his stupid head butt, right in front of the referee, cost us the game,possibly the three points needed for promotion and another suspension at Wycombe, Tommy was quite rightly vilified at the ground and on here.

What happened?

He came back, was outstanding, cut out this nonsense which adds nothing and detracts everything from his game and was voted fans player of the season.

We won't go into what happened when he collected his award

What's changed this year?

The manager, some people say and I think Tins own on the field behaviour leaves a lot to be desired at times, but that shouldn't have affected Tommy's.

Can you not see that Tommy does not possess the rationale thought process you require.

So why did he change after Wycombe?

And nor should he.

So would you accept the fact that "our best and most influential player should miss so much of the season through lack of fitness and suspension?

It's in his make up, and you take that out of him and yes, he won't get so stupidly booked, but also you will not have the same player. Someone like that, they can't just turn the emotional tap on and off. Tommy crosses that white line, and he is in a different world for 90 minutes.

Completly disagree

I don't know if you've ever played football to any extent, but if you have you'll have seen players like him, even in amateur football, and you'll know what I mean.

I played and coached football for many years.I qualified as an FA coach and, as part of that course, you have to qualify as a referee.

I've managed large teams of people for many years and, regretfully, I've seen many players like Tommy, not in amateur/semi-pro football, but at BCFC.

Ask you elders about Micky Tanner & Lee Rogers.Both had huge promise and both never made it.

You'll often hear about "someone that was...." That's Fred, he USED TO BE...........

If Tommy's not careful, that'll be him in a few years time and I for one will be very sad for someone I've watched progress through local football and overcome career threatening injuries

Of course, if Tommy can be taught to channel his agression and energy more productively that would be for his good and Bristol City. To me, on his day he's the Roy Keane of the Third division.

Keane was more of a box to box player in his younger days.If you will, someone with Bradley Orrs' running and Tommys' ability, at our level.Nothing wrong with channelled aggression

Hopefully Tins, as he develops his man management skills, will gradually encourage Tommy in the right direction. But with someone like Tommy, it won't be achieved by ranting and questioning his loyalty and passion for Bristol City.

Who's ranting?

Tommy is the most technically gifted player at this club, period. If Tins can help Tommy in the right way, we really will have an asset on our hands. And he is Bristol City through and through, and he'll stay.

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I hope so, but the first thing he needs to do is stay on the pitch, thus improving his fitness levels and stop wasting his breath,ranting at Refs.

To many people confuse very necessary passion & commitment with plain bad behaviour which detracts hugely from Tommy's game

[Bristol Boy]

i think on this form it's called constructive critisism in "most cases"

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Constructive criticism is fine.

**** off to the Gas, isn't!

At least young Nick J, to whom I have just replied, attempts to explain a position.

I disagree and that what this Forum is all about.

The really sad thing is that we've lost Tommy for two games when we just might have turned a corner and I'll be even sadder when we beat Oldham, snow permitting and he has to miss the next two games.

That's the real shame

[Bristol Boy]

Hey BB, guess what, you must have the tall poppy syndrome, the kids are trying to chop you down. don't worry its a planned attack according to my niece, picking on you and other informed sources. Like wind, it will pass.

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The funny part is they think I don't know

Far better have tried.

They all failed and about half of them have started to agree well, sometimes

[The_Boy]

And agreeing with "your mate" that I should **** off and watch the Gas, isn't, I suppose?

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for the record I agreed with his point that taking away the docs character would be a bad thing for his playign career. Not that you should ###### off! I like most other people just ignored that part of the post and read the stuff with any real meaning to it!!

[Bristol Boy]

Tommy and Luke Wilkshire may well be our best midfield but Tinnion can't play them together when TD is suspended or unfit most the time. You surely can't condone what he did today. MOM, 2-0 up, game virtually over and he gets himself booked for no reason. He now misses the next 2 games so the team is disrupted again. After playing so well all match, he has again let the team down.

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Spot On!

Even Pele couldn't win games from the stand!

[Bristol Boy]

I find it ironic that somebody who picks up on a mild mistake such as "i" instead of "I" has such imperfect spelling and grammar themselves.

"Really" not "Realy" in case you wanted to know.

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And there's a lot of difference between a typo and a spelling/grammar mistake, Justin

[BlokeCDP]

At 23/24, with the injuries he's had,if he doesn't change, he'll be finished in a season or two.

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Just to nitpit, our Tommy will be 26 in March.

[Bristol Boy]

for the record I agreed with his point that taking away the docs character would be a bad thing for his playign career. Not that you should ###### off! I like most other people just ignored that part of the post and read the stuff with any real meaning to it!!

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No,you reproduced the whole post and posted,"well said mate!"

If you only agreed with a small part, then that's what you should have quoted.

Just because you're getting some stick now, don't change your tune.

Docs "character" (I prefer behaviour) is the very thing that changed last season and led to the player of the season award.

If it doesn't change, his career will be over and that, as opposed to the huge loyalty that you think, is why he turned down the loan moves.

Tins one to one and stripping him of the captaincy, was a shock and a huge jolt.

It was a brave/clever/daft decision, depending on your opinion.

Let's see.

[Bristol Boy]

Just to nitpit, our Tommy will be 26 in March.

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OK then, the way he's going, he'll be finished by 28

[BlokeCDP]

OK then, the way he's going, he'll be finished by 28

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City will have had 10 years of him as a pro then, barring him leaving before then.

[martin]

Why don't you f##k off and watch the gas, you tommy bashers are really starting to get on my t#ts.

So you would rather watch that dross served up the other night with no invention,tackeling or passing in the full 90 mins, funny how hes back one game and we win.

The lad is a loose cannon sometimes but thats what makes him a good player,you take that out of his game and you lose the player,why don't you sit back and just enjoy when he is out there.I don't hear you slagging off Rooney when he does it for England and then gets himself booked.

And that other doughnut who said "we should have sold him in the summer", you like our club selling all their best players do you,and us sliding down to the depths were the gas reside because thats what was happening before tinnion saw the light and realised that a tommy and wiltshire midfield is our best.

HERES TO MORE OF IT IN THE FUTURE

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I came on to this forum for sensible debate not for someone like you to resort to gutter language because you're not bright enough to articulate your views in arationale way. In many ways people like you epitomise the problems TD is having. You should try to engage your barin before you open your mouth.

[spongebob]

In that case, can we ask the referee to recind the decision on video evidence, if that booking's leading to a suspension?

I know that's possible with two yellows and a sending off.

The problem is that Tommy's reputation goes before him and, like it or not, Referees talk and he's a marked man.

In fairness, that's one yellow, how about the other nine, one of which came after the game at Chesterfield? Not doubting that, but yesterdays was harsh.

If he goes on like this, he'll struggle to play enough games to stay fit and that'll ruin his career. Could not agree more, but if he plays as he did yesterday consistently then he wont pick up these needless bookings.

That's just sad for Tommy & City.

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By the way i have missed 2 of our 33 games, but hey its not like i am counting!

[Guest east_dundry_red]

Its your attitude that sickens me!  Tommy is one of the finest players at the club, and you cannot be a competitive player without risking a booking sometimes. This is the player who has come back from a career threatening injury early in his career to become an international, that takes alot of hard work and dedication. I would have thought he is a excellent role model for your son, unlike some people who seem only to whinge and spread negativity, its a shame we can't transfer some of these so called supporters out of the club.

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you obviously havent watched city this season. Sorry but bar the odd few games tommy has been poor and is no where near a model to anyone. Sorry but how can someone who smokes 20 a day drinks like a goldfish and let it affect his football be a role model to anyone. And he's a gobby little ######.

As for transfering supporters. Id let you go to tiverton town on a free. Accually ill pay them, to take you.

[robins72]

you obviously havent watched city this season. Sorry but bar the odd few games tommy has been poor and is no where near a model to anyone. Sorry but how can someone who smokes 20 a day drinks like a goldfish and let it affect his football be a role model to anyone. And he's a gobby little ######.

As for transfering supporters. Id let you go to tiverton town on a free. Accually ill pay them, to take you.

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how do you know he drinks like a goldfish? I know he smokes alot but haven't heard that he drinks like a goldfish. Besides Why keep this thread running now the guy wants to get fit and play for us, and it sounds like his booking was harsh yesterday but as I wasn't there can only go by what I heard on the radio.

[Guest east_dundry_red]

how do you know he drinks like a goldfish? I know he smokes alot but haven't heard that he drinks like a goldfish. Besides Why keep this thread running now the guy wants to get fit and play for us, and it sounds like his booking was harsh yesterday but as I wasn't there can only go by what I heard on the radio.

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ive seen him drink!

[Bristol Boy]

how do you know he drinks like a goldfish? I know he smokes alot but haven't heard that he drinks like a goldfish. Besides Why keep this thread running now the guy wants to get fit and play for us, and it sounds like his booking was harsh yesterday but as I wasn't there can only go by what I heard on the radio.

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Well, the point is, 33 games in and he wants to GET fit and play for us

Gee, thanks!

Darren Caskey reckons that BCFC has the best "drinks culture," of any club he's been at.

Nuff said.

[robins72]

Well, the point is, 33 games in and he wants to GET fit and play for us    

Gee, thanks!

Darren Caskey reckons that BCFC has the best "drinks culture," of any club he's been at.

Nuff said.

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Caskey just ate all the pies he didn't like ours so that was why he left, well thats what i heard

[Bristol Boy]

Caskey just ate all the pies he didn't like ours so that was why he left, well thats what i heard

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I think his problem is more to do with what he washed the pies down with.

[Nogbad the Bad]

Or I could have put it like that. 

You're in a minority of one, Bristol Boy.

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Don't be daft.

Just because we haven't all been posting on this thread. Many of us have made similar observations to his on here recently.

I've been away for the weekend, so can only add my bit now.

I agree with everything BB has said, moreover his measured, factual and sensible responses have been in direct contrast to the over emotional, heated, and often abusive tirades of his 'opponents'.

Those of us without a sentimental or personal attachment to Tommy Doherty ( and there do seem to be many for whom he can do no wrong) can see that his failings, especially as Captain, have had a hugely adverse affect on City's season. Saturday's booking, justified or not, only compounds this.

Many of us who have been watching him for his entire career at the club ( now, incredibly approaching a decade) have seen this combination of ill discipline, fitness problems, patchy appearance making and wayward form surface over and over again.

Far from being a minority of one, i very much doubt BB is in the minority at all in his views regarding Doherty.

Indeed it seems likely that the people arguing most vehemently in support of TD on this thread are probably amongst the vocal minority who chant his name at matches when he has done nothing whatsoever to merit it and the vast majority of the crowd are left scratching their heads as to why.

[NickJ]

Just refresh my memory, Nick, how many votes did you get in poster of the year?

As Clive Woodward said, "Being in a minority of one, doesn't mean your wrong!"

I'll agree with the World Cup Winner.

Looking at the stick that Tommy's got on here and the performances and behaviour that led to him being publicy stripped on the captaincy, I wouldn't even say it's true.

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Hi Bristol Boy!

You're certainly prolific. Just to clear up a couple of things you've said:

"You're not bright enough to have said it".

Ooh, personal abuse. And to think I was nice to you in my reply. And you don't even know me! How do you measure "bright" then, Bristol Boy? From any objective measure, from what I've seen on here from you, I'd fancy my chances.

"How many votes did you get in poster of the year?".

Hopefully, none - PS I only became a member July anyway. It's not why I'm on here. I just want Bristol City to do well. I'm not on some sort of "poster of the year" ego trip, I have more important things to do. But it annoys me when City players or the manager are given incessant personal abuse.

"Being in a minority of one doesn't mean you are wrong".

We're dealing in opinions, not facts, here, so it's impossible for anyone to be "wrong". Think about it. The fact is, on this issue, your opinion is or is close to being not agreed with by anyone. In my view, and call me a stickler for detail if you like, but that doesn't exactly make it very likely you are "correct". So as I say, you are wasting your breath.

"Tommy head butt at Wycombe"

I was at that game, the indiscipline permeated itself throughout the entire team. I recall another City player sent off, though I don't remember who, and the sloppiest defending against the poorest side you are likely to see. In such circumstances, someone like Tommy is pretty much certain to react in a certain way.

"Young Nick.....ask your elders about Mick Tanner"

That makes me feel good, though I have to point out I saw my first game, a 0-0 draw against Middlesborough, sat on the wall at the old open end as a 5 year old in September 1967. When did you watch your first City game - that's not a facetious comment, I'm just interested (by the way you spelt facetious incorrectly - facitious - on another reply recently, I only remember because I thought it was funny because at the same time you were engaged in a pointless "debate" on English spelling and grammar, which included, inter alia, you pointing out it is "I" not "i"). I remember Micky Tanner. I was at Brentford when he was sent off, ironically also if I recall for a head butt. Or maybe the referee didnt see it and he wasnt sent off, it was a long time ago.

So, back to Tommy. Yes he is indisciplined. But I think you and me and others on here could argue ad nauseum about that. Personally, I also don't

like the fact Clayton Fortune is 6 foot 6 but can't head a ball, Scott Murray is a winger whose crossing is not all it could be, Marc Goodfellow seems frightened to tackle, and so on. But I recognize that all our players have deficiencies. With Tommy, it's his discipline. You can't get your head around that. Fair enough, but the majority on here are happy with Tommy just the way he is. Perhaps it's because we remember the likes of free-loaders like Gary Stanley. Now there was a City great. Not.

Bye!

[Waffleflap]

If you watch most players when the ref gives a decision,they swear at him without no reply from the ref.some get away with it and some don't.I would of said something to the ref if someone would of grabbed my throat.Tommy had a good game and IS our best midfielder at the club.He does need to calm down with his mouth sometimes but that just shows his passion and if you take that away then you take a part of his game away.He marked Raul out of the game when playing for N.Ireland so we know how good the boy is.Lay off of him.