Boxing Kangaroo Posted February 21, 2005 Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 I was at the game on Saturday and that was the best Tommy has played all the season and Tinnion was right to say he was the MOTM. Okay so he got booked, it was harsh booking and Tommy was provoked by Ndumbu-Nsungu grabbing him by the throat. Neil Danns didn't help matters and was trying to wind up any of the City players who would bite. The referee didn't help matters either, he just stood back let Tommy and Ndumbu have their set-to and then let a 10/15 man outbreak of 'handbags' carry on right in front of him. Speaking of the 'handbags' incident it was good to see Carey and Ireland in the middle of it sticking up for the rest of the City team - nice to see some passion and fight (ableit the wrong kind !!) on the pitch for once. On Saturday's form I would pick Tommy Doc ahead of Tins, Orr or the other TD any day of the week. Let's hope he can keep it going and doesn't get too disheartened by his 2 game ban. I know he has a discipline problem but if you take the aggressive side out of his game then he's not as good a player. Take Roy Keane and Wayne Rooney for example, without the aggressive side of their game they wouldn't be half the players they are. By the way (before anyone has a go) I don't condone what Tommy did but you can't pass comment on an incident unless you know the full facts behind it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ciderred77 Posted February 21, 2005 Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 Tommy is in the Football League One Team of the week http://www.football-league.premiumtv.co.uk...794~1545,00.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Boy Posted February 21, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 By the way i have missed 2 of our 33 games, but hey its not like i am counting! ← I think you might have missed the booking as well. According to reports it was Ndumbu-Nsungu AND the reports say it was deserved. All about opinions, I suppose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Boy Posted February 21, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 Tommy is in the Football League One Team of the week http://www.football-league.premiumtv.co.uk...794~1545,00.jpg ← I hope it isn't playing in the next fortnight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Boy Posted February 21, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 I was at the game on Saturday and that was the best Tommy has played all the season and Tinnion was right to say he was the MOTM. Good Okay so he got booked, it was harsh booking and Tommy was provoked by Ndumbu-Nsungu grabbing him by the throat. Neil Danns didn't help matters and was trying to wind up any of the City players who would bite. The referee didn't help matters either, he just stood back let Tommy and Ndumbu have their set-to and then let a 10/15 man outbreak of 'handbags' carry on right in front of him. OK, I've got it now.It was everybody elses fault. Speaking of the 'handbags' incident it was good to see Carey and Ireland in the middle of it sticking up for the rest of the City team - nice to see some passion and fight (ableit the wrong kind !!) on the pitch for once. Yes, well done lads, no doubt they'll get booked and susoended as well. On Saturday's form I would pick Tommy Doc ahead of Tins, Orr or the other TD any day of the week. Let's hope he can keep it going and doesn't get too disheartened by his 2 game ban. Disheartened? I should think he's used to it by now.On form we'd all pick Tommy in front of the others the only problem is we've played 33 games and it's a bit late to hit form! I know he has a discipline problem but if you take the aggressive side out of his game then he's not as good a player. Take Roy Keane and Wayne Rooney for example, without the aggressive side of their game they wouldn't be half the players they are. Not that again.Rooney's excuse is that he's a kid (Tommy was a far better player when he was younger and didn't loose his rag all the time) and comparing Tommy to Roy Keane is a bit like comparing a Transit Van to a Rolls Royce. By the way (before anyone has a go) I don't condone what Tommy did but you can't pass comment on an incident unless you know the full facts behind it. ← And other reports have said he was rightfully booked.I didn't pass comment on the details of the incident I passed comment on his booking, for dissent and its effect. That is a two game ban. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Boy Posted February 21, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 If you watch most players when the ref gives a decision,they swear at him No they don't.And why take the chance? What's he going to do, change his mind? some get away with it and some don't. Well TD doesn't, so why not juts shut up and get on with it? I would of said something to the ref if someone would of grabbed my throat. Yes, but you're not a Pro footballer, are you? Tommy had a good game and IS our best midfielder at the club.He does need to calm down with his mouth sometimes but that just shows his passion No, it shows his stupidity and he's not our best midfielder when he's sat in the Williams, is he? and if you take that away then you take a part of his game away. That's the huge mistake that people who excuse him make.The gob actually makes him far less effective and far less fit as his suspensions make him miss games. He marked Raul out of the game when playing for N.Ireland so we know how good the boy is.Lay off of him. ← Find one comment from me that say's Tommy can't play football. My point is, you can't play from the stands and his behaviour provokes the same from other City players, hence suspensions and that's why both Tommy and Tinnion need to sort it.Pronto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Boy Posted February 21, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 Hi Bristol Boy! You're certainly prolific. Just to clear up a couple of things you've said: "You're not bright enough to have said it". Ooh, personal abuse. And to think I was nice to you in my reply. And you don't even know me! How do you measure "bright" then, Bristol Boy? From any objective measure, from what I've seen on here from you, I'd fancy my chances. Actually, on what I've read in your other posting, so would I.I measured bright against your other reply, when you were trying to take the micky and that's why the reply was of that nature, so don't give it out if you can't take it. "How many votes did you get in poster of the year?". But it annoys me when City players or the manager are given incessant personal abuse. Incessant? I wouldn't say so and you can be as annoyed as you like.I'd call it criticism and if it's due and players do something to attract that criticism, then it goes with the territory. "Being in a minority of one doesn't mean you are wrong". We're dealing in opinions, not facts, here, so it's impossible for anyone to be "wrong". Think about it. The fact is, on this issue, your opinion is or is close to being not agreed with by anyone. If you read the postings on Tommy you'll find a 50/50 split on the issue.Most of those who support Tommy, including the clown who said he was a role model, seem to be the under 18's who confuse passion and commitment with yobbishness and bad behaviour. "Tommy head butt at Wycombe" I was at that game, the indiscipline permeated itself throughout the entire team. I recall another City player sent off, though I don't remember who, and the sloppiest defending against the poorest side you are likely to see. In such circumstances, someone like Tommy is pretty much certain to react in a certain way. Coles was sent off, unfairly and it was recinded.Are you, therrfore saying that Tommy's head butt was acceptable "Young Nick.....ask your elders about Mick Tanner" That makes me feel good, though I have to point out I saw my first game, a 0-0 draw against Middlesborough, sat on the wall at the old open end as a 5 year old in September 1967. When did you watch your first City game - that's not a facetious comment, I'm just interested 1960.Hope that clears that up. I remember Micky Tanner. I was at Brentford when he was sent off, ironically also if I recall for a head butt. Or maybe the referee didnt see it and he wasnt sent off, it was a long time ago. And where's MT playing now and how did his career go? That's the point.Tommy has the opportunity to have at least 7/8 more good years, on good money at City or somewhere else.The way he's going, it won't happen and that won't be anyones fault but his own. So, back to Tommy. Yes he is indisciplined. But I think you and me and others on here could argue ad nauseum about that. Personally, I also don't like the fact Clayton Fortune is 6 foot 6 but can't head a ball, Scott Murray is a winger whose crossing is not all it could be, Marc Goodfellow seems frightened to tackle, and so on. The major flaw in the argument is that Fortune doesn't get booked for being unable to head a ball and neither do the others for their failings.You won't find a posting from me that says TD can't play football. But I recognize that all our players have deficiencies. With Tommy, it's his discipline. You can't get your head around that. Fair enough, but the majority on here are happy with Tommy just the way he is. Funny thing is, if you read the Tommy postings, they're not and neither is the manager who dropped him and stripped him of the captaincy.Lots of people are far more critical of his "lifestyle," shall we say, than I am Perhaps it's because we remember the likes of free-loaders like Gary Stanley. Now there was a City great. Not. Bye! ← You see the problem there, Old Nick, is that I remember Gary Stanley and numerous other wasters and saying, "at least Tommy isn't like/as bad as, that" is meaningless. So what? Gary Stanley's long gone along with Steve Jones, Paul Holland, Paul Mortimer, Frank McGarvey, et all. Tommy's still here and 33 games into a season that has produced huge inconsistency and poor discipline, mirrored on the terraces at Hull, he's thinking about getting fit and may be hitting form. Ask yourself, is that really good enough and couldn't he do far better FOR THE CLUB HE LOVES? Tommy was a far better player when he was younger and he didn't have these problems then.He still showed commitment, passion, tackles and, above all, talent. That's what I want to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DANNY Posted February 21, 2005 Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 BB have you got the League one team of the week in any larger print I can't quite see it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Boy Posted February 21, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 Don't be daft. Just because we haven't all been posting on this thread. Many of us have made similar observations to his on here recently. I've been away for the weekend, so can only add my bit now. I agree with everything BB has said, moreover his measured, factual and sensible responses have been in direct contrast to the over emotional, heated, and often abusive tirades of his 'opponents'. Those of us without a sentimental or personal attachment to Tommy Doherty ( and there do seem to be many for whom he can do no wrong) can see that his failings, especially as Captain, have had a hugely adverse affect on City's season. Saturday's booking, justified or not, only compounds this. Many of us who have been watching him for his entire career at the club ( now, incredibly approaching a decade) have seen this combination of ill discipline, fitness problems, patchy appearance making and wayward form surface over and over again. Far from being a minority of one, i very much doubt BB is in the minority at all in his views regarding Doherty. Indeed it seems likely that the people arguing most vehemently in support of TD on this thread are probably amongst the vocal minority who chant his name at matches when he has done nothing whatsoever to merit it and the vast majority of the crowd are left scratching their heads as to why. ← Couldn't have put it better myself In fact, with all the time I've spent responding, I could have put it in the EP and got a few bob! Cheers BB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Boy Posted February 21, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 Just to nitpit, our Tommy will be 26 in March. ← Just to be the same, that's nitpick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Boy Posted February 21, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 BB have you got the League one team of the week in any larger print I can't quite see it ← Didn't vene look at the link but Tommy won't be playing. I don't know if you've noticed but he's suspended Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pentlandsl Posted February 21, 2005 Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 What I find most annoying is that hidden in the slagging off and posturing on this forum are some very well made points, quite often the people arguing amongst themselves are actually making the same point but lose sight of this in their need to try and out-do each other. If I can summarise this thread and put it to bed once and for all; Tommy on his day is an outstanding player. We ALL want him playing week in and week out when he is on top of his game. A player with his passion and commitment will always pick up yellow cards, some wrongly for hard but fair tackles, others rightly for slightly mis-timed tackles. These the majority of fans can accept - it is part and parcel of the way Tommy plays. What irritates people is the sense of waste when he lets himself and the club down by picking up needless bookings for dissent. He wants to play for us, we want him to play but he still can't control himself. He needs to work on this side of the game, if he does then he could be Premiership class, if he doesn't then he will just be another 3rd division midfielder with a reputation for being "hard", who didn't quite make it. Last Saturday TD knew he was 1 yellow away from a ban, he knew he had played well enough to keep his place for the next game, so why on earth did he rise to the provocation to have a go at the ref? It is his achilles heel and he needs to deal with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickJ Posted February 21, 2005 Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 BB have you got the League one team of the week in any larger print I can't quite see it ← Oh dear. Now you've upset Bristol Boy. I can almost feel his blood boiling. Don't you realise, Tommy can't play in the League One team of the week - he'll be suspended! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Boy Posted February 21, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 Oh dear. Now you've upset Bristol Boy. I can almost feel his blood boiling. Don't you realise, Tommy can't play in the League One team of the week - he'll be suspended! ← Actually Nick He can't even play tomorrow. If you look at the Forum, he's injured. Now, if you remember,that's one of the things I said would happen if you miss games through suspension.You're not match fit and, if you're not physically fit the two combine to mean that you're more likely to mistime tackles, hurt your opponent and yourself, get booked and then it starts all over again. What a clever chap like you might call self- perpetuating (Hope that's spelt right!) Point is that could be another three weeks before he kcicks a ball again. Now do you get it or can you excuse that as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickJ Posted February 21, 2005 Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 You see the problem there, Old Nick, is that I remember Gary Stanley and numerous other wasters and saying, "at least Tommy isn't like/as bad as, that" is meaningless. So what? Gary Stanley's long gone along with Steve Jones, Paul Holland, Paul Mortimer, Frank McGarvey, et all. Tommy's still here and 33 games into a season that has produced huge inconsistency and poor discipline, mirrored on the terraces at Hull, he's thinking about getting fit and may be hitting form. Ask yourself, is that really good enough and couldn't he do far better FOR THE CLUB HE LOVES? Tommy was a far better player when he was younger and he didn't have these problems then.He still showed commitment, passion, tackles and, above all, talent. That's what I want to see. ← Phew. I said we could argue ad nauseum about Tommy. I didn't mean I wanted you to! There are lots of people on here with intransigent positions. Ever felt you could be going round in circles? But just to reply to the personal bits again. Where did I try to take the "micky"? And who said I couldnt "take it". I responded to your comment, so what. You really think I'm worried about a bit of abuse/banter? NickJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tunley Legend Posted February 21, 2005 Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 What I find most annoying is that hidden in the slagging off and posturing on this forum are some very well made points, quite often the people arguing amongst themselves are actually making the same point but lose sight of this in their need to try and out-do each other. If I can summarise this thread and put it to bed once and for all; Tommy on his day is an outstanding player. We ALL want him playing week in and week out when he is on top of his game. A player with his passion and commitment will always pick up yellow cards, some wrongly for hard but fair tackles, others rightly for slightly mis-timed tackles. These the majority of fans can accept - it is part and parcel of the way Tommy plays. What irritates people is the sense of waste when he lets himself and the club down by picking up needless bookings for dissent. He wants to play for us, we want him to play but he still can't control himself. He needs to work on this side of the game, if he does then he could be Premiership class, if he doesn't then he will just be another 3rd division midfielder with a reputation for being "hard", who didn't quite make it. Last Saturday TD knew he was 1 yellow away from a ban, he knew he had played well enough to keep his place for the next game, so why on earth did he rise to the provocation to have a go at the ref? It is his achilles heel and he needs to deal with it. ← This is the thing that frustrates me. We were 2-0 up with 15 minutes to go. Why get involved. If the guy grabbed him round the throat then fall down like a sack of spuds. The guy then gets sent off and the last 15 minutes is then a stroll in the park. Surely, that is plain common sense (as well as PROFESSIONALISM). I know the red mist descends on many players of Doherty's type from time to time but surely you have to also engage your brain from time to time as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zookeeper Posted February 21, 2005 Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 This is the thing that frustrates me. We were 2-0 up with 15 minutes to go. Why get involved. If the guy grabbed him round the throat then fall down like a sack of spuds. The guy then gets sent off and the last 15 minutes is then a stroll in the park. Surely, that is plain common sense (as well as PROFESSIONALISM). I know the red mist descends on many players of Doherty's type from time to time but surely you have to also engage your brain from time to time as well. ← It is not proffesional to fall to the ground when being attacked (that is only what we are led to believe from the evil premiership clubs), nor is it part of his A type personality to react in that way!! Also I recently read some comments from Norman Hunter, who said that without the fiery side of his game, that got him booked and sent off a fair few times, he would have been half the player he was and that once he was wound up nothing could really unwind him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs Posted February 21, 2005 Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 That's "I" as a capital and it should be: "Is that your educated reply? I waste my breath." and it's a bit more educated than your, "Oscar Wildesque" quotation, of........let me see, what was it? Oh yes: " **** off and watch the Gas" Sorry, I just can't match that type of badanage. Now, text your cousin and see what he's got to say! Bet it'll be realy good ← If we're talking about bad grammar/spelling then I think you'll find it's lose rather than loose as you said Not for me to get involved in but I'm bored and on his day, which in all respect to you people slating Tommy he hasn't had a lot of lately , he is the best player at this club. Crumbs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Boy Posted February 21, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 If we're talking about bad grammar/spelling then I think you'll find it's lose rather than loose as you said Not for me to get involved in but I'm bored and on his day, which in all respect to you people slating Tommy he hasn't had a lot of lately , he is the best player at this club. Crumbs ← He's certainly the best player in the stand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Boy Posted February 21, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 It is not proffesional to fall to the ground when being attacked (that is only what we are led to believe from the evil premiership clubs), nor is it part of his A type personality to react in that way!! No I agree, it's far better to ***t the referee off and square up, thus getting sent off or booked. Also I recently read some comments from Norman Hunter, who said that without the fiery side of his game, that got him booked and sent off a fair few times, he would have been half the player he was and that once he was wound up nothing could really unwind him. ← Did that include ******g the ref off, every time he gives a decision against you? I haven't criticised the bookings for tackles, although Tommy's are more often mistimed these days and that's how he gets injured on numerous occassions. Same thing happened when he got booked FIRST,for a poor tackle at Chesterfield and then a second yellow AFTER the game for, you guessed it, "putting the ref straight again." Hunter was a tremendous player for us even in the twilight of his career and I honestly didn't realise how good a footballer he was until he joined City. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Boy Posted February 21, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 There are lots of people on here with intransigent positions. Ever felt you could be going round in circles? Ever felt you were in a glass house, throwing stones? Where did I try to take the "micky"? In your second post And who said I couldnt "take it". Me I responded to your comment, so what. You really think I'm worried about a bit of abuse/banter? NickJ ← Looks like it, Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickJ Posted February 21, 2005 Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 Looks like it, Nick ← ##### me you don't give up do you? OK, I admit it, you're right about everything on here. NickJ PS - Will the Posters of the Year awards 2005 mean as much this year, or will it be an anti-climax having already been so succesful in 2004? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Boy Posted February 21, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 ##### me you don't give up do you? As Mrs Bristol Boy said only the other evening, "Failure just isn't in your vocabulary!" ................or was it trousers Anyway, No! OK, I admit it, you're right about everything on here. About bl00dy time, too.I knew you'd come round to my way of thinking NickJ PS - Will the Posters of the Year awards 2005 mean as much this year, or will it be an anti-climax having already been so succesful in 2004? ← I've told Madger to get some sponsorship, so there's a cash prize. Oh and some proper medals..........and a holiday...........a cruise perhaps.......with some ladies on, with.................. I'll get me coat PS Seen anything of Tommy lately Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zookeeper Posted February 21, 2005 Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 Did that include ******g the ref off, every time he gives a decision against you? I haven't criticised the bookings for tackles, although Tommy's are more often mistimed these days and that's how he gets injured on numerous occassions. Same thing happened when he got booked FIRST,for a poor tackle at Chesterfield and then a second yellow AFTER the game for, you guessed it, "putting the ref straight again." Hunter was a tremendous player for us even in the twilight of his career and I honestly didn't realise how good a footballer he was until he joined City. ← I have had this argument with you before and I don't believe that either of us will change our different beliefs. I truly believe that personality traits are not switched on and off at will and Tommy's on field persona is very much a Type A personality, which gets him into all sorts of trouble. None of us know what effect it would have on his game if we took away all of these traits. Maybe it would improve him, but I think that it will take his bite away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martin Posted February 21, 2005 Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 Seems to have become a 2 man debate with my sympathies lying with Bristol Boy. It's worth repeating that Tommy D is potentially a very good player, but his attitude stinks. I don't want my sons growing up thinking that TD's yobbish behaviour is the way to succeed in football. On some occasions principles are more important than players. If TD can't shut his mouth then ship him out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Boy Posted February 21, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 I have had this argument with you before and I don't believe that either of us will change our different beliefs. You never know, NickJ has come around I truly believe that personality traits are not switched on and off at will and Tommy's on field persona is very much a Type A personality, which gets him into all sorts of trouble. The funny thing is, when he was younger, he didn't spout off all the time,if at all, was much fitter and much better.Also scored more goals, although he was never prolific None of us know what effect it would have on his game if we took away all of these traits. I'd predict he'd play more often, at least! Maybe it would improve him, but I think that it will take his bite away. ← Take it from me, the only losers at the moment are BCFC and someone who could be a vital cog in a League One, promotion team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickJ Posted February 21, 2005 Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 I've told Madger to get some sponsorship, so there's a cash prize. Oh and some proper medals..........and a holiday...........a cruise perhaps.......with some ladies on, with.................. I'll get me coat PS Seen anything of Tommy lately ← Why Yes! Saw Tommy out on the lash last night, but he got threw out the boozer after a argument and then a brawl with the barman. Would you believe that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Boy Posted February 22, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2005 Why Yes! Saw Tommy out on the lash last night, but he got threw out the boozer after a argument and then a brawl with the barman. Would you believe that? ← Of course, it was me he was fighting with because I wouldn't serve him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.