Goodbye 2004-2005

[arpaul]

With the fifteenth and final play off match completed for this season, we see joy and heartbreak shared between the twelve contenders.

No matter how bad we were in Cardiff this time last year, the anticipation, excitement and alas despair, is still very fresh in all our minds today.

In my opinion, I feel we've been badly let down by the people entrusted to run our great club in the 366 days since Cardiff.

There must be no excuses next season. Lansdowns man has already had one full season in charge, and in turn Tinnion will have his own players to stand or fall with.

The countdown to 2005-2006 starts now. It is time for the board and its management staff to deliver. Shape up or ship out

On an ironic note, Well done to the West Ham United board for sticking with Mr Pardew after last seasons championship play off final disaster. Oh Mr Lansdown, don't you wish you could turn back time!!

[BCFC_Dan]

On an ironic note, Well done to the West Ham United board for sticking with Mr Pardew after last seasons championship play off final disaster. Oh Mr Lansdown, don't you wish you could turn back time!!

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Mr Pardew hadn't already had 4 years.

With any luck in a year's time we'll be glad that Mr Lansdown stuck with Mr Tinnion after failing to get promotion in his first year.

[Robbored]

In my opinion, I feel we've been badly let down by the people entrusted to run our great club in the 366 days since Cardiff.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion and mine is that considering the mess and low morale that Tinnion inherited and the unprofessional attitude of some his more senior players he's done pretty well in his rookie season.He'll be more prepared next season with players that are hungry and want to play for the club.

There must be no excuses next season. Lansdowns man has already had one full season in charge, and in turn Tinnion will have his own players to stand or fall with.

Just like virtually any other manager at any other club.

Most pundits will tell you that it takes a manager 3 seasons to build his own team.Wilson failed to do that in four seasons and now Tinnion has two seasons.

On an ironic note, Well done to the West Ham United board for sticking with Mr Pardew after last seasons championship play off final disaster.

As someone esle has already pointed out Pardew hasn't had four seasons to get West Ham up.If they had lost the play-off yesterday it was common knowlege that he would have been replaced

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[thatcham red]

Ironic also that many West Ham fans still find it difficult to give Pardew any credit for West Ham going up.

Wonder how many City fans will find themselves in that position when City go up next year eh arpaul?

[richieb]

Everyone is entitled to an opinion and mine is that considering the mess and low morale that Tinnion inherited and the unprofessional attitude of some his more senior players he's done pretty well in his rookie season.He'll be more prepared next season with players that are hungry and want to play for the club.

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This one will always run & run.

You are right everyone has an opinion.

I can't go with some of these excuses - 'low morale' 'unprofessional attitudes'.

Face facts - the squad should have been strong enough to push on from Cardiff - many teams do it.

BT lacke motivation & tactical skills & it cost us big time.

August will be the time when we all come back to the Gate & see if the tales of woe, that has been the season past, are still with us.

If BT gets his experienced coach, then I reckon we could just push on.

No excuse's next season - FROM MANAGER OR SOME FANS.

[Guest Vodared]

like always we will turn up in our droves again, not crying about this year, I believe that we are the next "sleeping giant" that will rise again. Bring on August, there is nothing we are afraid of !!!!

[richieb]

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And why is it that BCFC wern't stronger after the Play-Off defeat.

http://www.safc.com/news/?page_id=7267

[Tunley Legend]

And why is it that BCFC wern't stronger after the Play-Off defeat.

http://www.safc.com/news/?page_id=7267

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While I agree with much of what you have written above richieb, you surely have to accept that the likes of Doherty, Coles and Dinning were not pulling in the right direction for much of last season and clearly would not have helped the situation. This is not absolving Tinnion of any responsibility but all the facts should be stated, not just the selected few that support a particular argument.

All Professional Footballers, in my opinion, have a duty to the supporters who help pay their wages to perform with 100% commitment regardless of what is going on behind the scenes. Otherwise they are behaving as Amateurs and not worthy of picking up our money every month.

[Robbored]

While I agree with much of what you have written above richieb, you surely have to accept that the likes of Doherty, Coles and Dinning were not pulling in the right direction for much of last season and clearly would not have helped the situation. This is not absolving Tinnion of any responsibility but all the facts should be stated, not just the selected few that support a particular argument.

All Professional Footballers, in my opinion, have a duty to the supporters who help pay their wages to perform with 100% commitment regardless of what is going on behind the scenes. Otherwise they are behaving as Amateurs and not worthy of picking up our money every month.

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Spot on.

Regarding the first point.

It would have been hard enough for any rookie manager to re-build a club like City after the massive let downs of the Wilson years.Several senior players, Peacock,Carey,Brown were gone and on top of that he had serious attitude problems to handle from some existing players.Any disruptive influence is hard enough to deal with even if your're experienced with handling players.Tinnion had neither quality through' no fault of his own and yet got one difficult player to turn himself around and is letting the other one leave AG.On reflection Tinnion did well given his inexperience with man-mangement.

That said, Tinnion has made errors with tactics,formations and one particular signing but no more errors than any other manager.Didn't Mourino mess up at N'castlte?

[richieb]

Spot on.

Regarding the first point.

It would have been hard enough for any rookie manager to re-build a club like City after the massive let downs of the Wilson years.Several senior players, Peacock,Carey,Brown were gone and on top of that he had serious attitude problems to handle from some existing players.Any disruptive influence is hard enough to deal with even if your're experienced with handling players.Tinnion had neither quality through' no fault of his own and yet got one difficult player to turn himself around and is letting the other one leave AG.On reflection Tinnion did well given his inexperience with man-mangement.

That said, Tinnion has made errors with tactics,formations and one particular signing but no more errors than any other manager.Didn't Mourino mess up at N'castlte?

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I know you will stick by your man,but I think there are a few flaws with your continued argument.

While DW didn't get us up,I can't remember your comments that scathing when he was at the helm. And lets be fair the only 'let down' as you put it was the play-off final.We got nearer every season.

So lets not get too hung up on the let down years.

The internal appointment of BT was asking for trouble with some senior pros's who had been at the club with him over the years.

BT has served under many Managers & appears that he wasn't the most respected of players amoungst his fellow professionals. Thats why he would have made a better start with the younger lads. An Academy post was first step.

Whether it was right or wrong some players wern't happy with the appt as they had seen the way BT had handled being a player - respect has to be earned & this was a major issue.

Dinning was the most interesting example - while he has now gone, no one seems to accept that it was the Luton game that BT/TD fell out - and as I understand TD told BT that he din't think he had a clue when it came to Management.

No surprise he went !!

As for what BT had to work with, well I can't believe that you continue to harp on about BT having to rebuild - it's all an excuse for a massive failure.

BT was left a cracking squad & the odd player you have mentioned wouldn't have made any difference to the performances.

BT went public & said all we needed was the firepower & the type of football to get us off our seats.

We had the best defence in the league.

Add to this £450k spent on his players & all was set.

What should have been an automatic promotion season - became one full of excuses & let downs.

No excuse this term as all new players are of BT's picking & the dictionary of excuses ran out this season gone.

MS will bring the smile back & HE WILL WANT IT.

I will be there come kick off full of cheer & expecting a 'winning' season.

[RedTop]

On an ironic note, Well done to the West Ham United board for sticking with Mr Pardew after last seasons championship play off final disaster. Oh Mr Lansdown, don't you wish you could turn back time!!

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No idea whether Mr Lansdown would like to turn back time, but I certainly wouldn't. I have no regrets about the decision to get rid of Mr Wilson. It was the right thing to do.

While DW didn't get us up,I can't remember your comments that scathing when he was at the helm. And lets be fair the only 'let down' as you put it was the play-off final.

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Wrong. There were four let-downs, one for every season. If you are going to use the same measure on BT, the only time it's a let-down is if he doesn't improve on his previous season. That's not good enough for me. This season was a let-down, as were the previous four, because we didn't get up. Simple as that, really. However, DW had four seasons to get it right and still didn't. Tins has shown me enough to convince me he's got potential to get us up next time round. I certainly won't be happy with sixth spot and a play-off exit, ad judging by his actions so far neither will he.

Tins has shown he's prepared to be tough with the players, he seems determined to get rid of this comfort zone that has been around the club for years, and he has shown better judgement in the transfer market than his predecessor. Of course he has weak spots. He has to motivate the players more regularly - something DW also failed to do - and he took far too long to find his best team. We can criticise every manager for their tactics, but the bottom line is we judge them by their results. That's why Danny went, and that's the way BT's fate will be decided too. And that's the way it should be. End of story.

[richieb]

Wrong. There were four let-downs, one for every season. If you are going to use the same measure on BT, the only time it's a let-down is if he doesn't improve on his previous season. That's not good enough for me. This season was a let-down, as were the previous four, because we didn't get up. Simple as that, really. However, DW had four seasons to get it right and still didn't. Tins has shown me enough to convince me he's got potential to get us up next time round. I certainly won't be happy with sixth spot and a play-off exit, ad judging by his actions so far neither will he.

We have been let down for many seasons & common theme is that BT has been a player under most of the managers who have failed.

I do take issue though with DW's first season & BT's.

The mess left by Clueless was going to take some sorting - BT had a team that had quality & his own admission led him to make sweeping statements.If BT had taken on what DW did in his first season then it would be totally different.

Tins has shown he's prepared to be tough with the players, he seems determined to get rid of this comfort zone that has been around the club for years, and he has shown better judgement in the transfer market than his predecessor. Of course he has weak spots. He has to motivate the players more regularly - something DW also failed to do - and he took far too long to find his best team. We can criticise every manager for their tactics, but the bottom line is we judge them by their results. That's why Danny went, and that's the way BT's fate will be decided too. And that's the way it should be. End of story.

He did get tough with players & washed all the linen in public.As for better judgement in the transfer market - You have got to be kidding. Brooker is half decent - thats it !!

As for motivation - again I saw more team spirit under DW than I saw this season with BT.

But I do agree - results will be proof in whether BT has got it right.

For the sake of the great fans of this club - I hope he gets it right.

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[RedUn]

Tins has shown he's prepared to be tough with the players, he seems determined to get rid of this comfort zone that has been around the club for years

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Write that large!

It seems to be taking some time for the penny to drop with some folk that certain players have got away with murder around here for years. Each rotten apple, in turn, has left the impression on others that they could muck around to their heart's content and get away with it ... and so it has gone on in a spirit of self-perpetuating mediocrity ... until now, because we know we have a manager prepared to stand up for what is needed to put things right.

I can only imagine that the few fans who don't welcome this change of focus must get some form of perverse pleasure from watching third grade football. Because that's the tab and we're the ones who have been picking it up; we will continue to do so unless we find a squad totally committed to producing 100% for all 90 minutes of every match; seems to me the best things we fans can do is applaud the adjusted focus on a higher professional standard and stop being sentimental about the few players incapable of reaching it.

[Godzilla]

On an ironic note, Well done to the West Ham United board for sticking with Mr Pardew after last seasons championship play off final disaster. Oh Mr Lansdown, don't you wish you could turn back time!!

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Despite being absolutely dire in that 4th season?

Don't kid yourself that we were good for that 3rd spot. In reality, those that saw the rubbish we were producing on the pitch week in, week out will tell you that the 11 match winning run saved our season big time.

And just a curious point about motivational abilities, Richie. You say Tinnion lacks these big style. Well I'd argue that Danny Wilson lacked them to an even greater extent.

Not only did he have to employ a pyschologist to talk to his players, but after that 11 match winning run finally came to an end, we failed to win any of the next 7.

It's hardly surprising that Tins' has struggled with several senior pro's; because their attitude towards playing for their manager, for their club, and for you as a fan has been absolutely terrible. This is why, unlike many, I'll be judging Tinnion on this coming season with a group of players that actually want to do well for this football club.

[Robbored]

I know you will stick by your man,but I think there are a few flaws with your continued argument.

While DW didn't get us up,I can't remember your comments that scathing when he was at the helm. And lets be fair the only 'let down' as you put it was the play-off final.We got nearer every season.

True I wasn't scathing about Wilson but thats because I try to be balanced and fair with whoever the manager of BCFC is.I recall posting that I would wait untill the end of the season before giving an opinion on Wilson

So lets not get too hung up on the let down years.

You're getting hung up on one let down season!

The internal appointment of BT was asking for trouble with some senior pros's who had been at the club with him over the years.

Can't argue with that.Maybe Steve Lansdown should take some of the blame.

BT has served under many Managers & appears that he wasn't the most respected of players amoungst his fellow professionals. Thats why he would have made a better start with the younger lads. An Academy post was first step.

Whether it was right or wrong some players wern't happy with the appt as they had seen the way BT had handled being a player - respect has to be earned & this was a major issue.

It was only an issue for three players that we know of.Dinning,Coles and Doherty and only a major issue because they were all regular first teamers.

Dinning was the most interesting example - while he has now gone, no one seems to accept that it was the Luton game that BT/TD fell out - and as I understand TD told BT that he din't think he had a clue when it came to Management.

No surprise he went !!

Those are the words( if true) of an angry man who also said that being subbed at Luton was "the most humiliating moment of my career". Of course he's going to slate the managerI wouldn't much emphasis on them

As for what BT had to work with, well I can't believe that you continue to harp on about BT having to rebuild - it's all an excuse for a massive failure.

BT was left a cracking squad & the odd player you have mentioned wouldn't have made any difference to the performances.

Peacock,Brown and Carey not making any difference? All three would have walked into any other team in the division.

BT went public & said all we needed was the firepower & the type of football to get us off our seats.

We had the best defence in the league.

Apart from Carey and a disinterested Doherty.

Add to this £450k spent on his players & all was set.

What should have been an automatic promotion season - became one full of excuses & let downs.

Thats the view of a man who is seeing only one side of the picture

No excuse this term as all new players are of BT's picking & the dictionary of excuses ran out this season gone.

MS will bring the smile back & HE WILL WANT IT.

I will be there come kick off full of cheer & expecting a 'winning' season.

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I can't argue with that,either!