Concerts At Ashton Gate

[swindlered]

Was discussing this with a Swindle fan. How much do these concerts net the clubs? Are they more beneficial than home friendlies?

[The Man In Black]

They have to be. 20,000+ people paying £40 to £60 a ticket? Not to mention the catering profits (I've heard they had catering outlets in the car park.... now why can't we do that to get rid of the queues? )

I know you have all the one off costs but I think some big performers like Neil Diamond tour with their own special effects and crew.

Personally I think they're a great idea in the close season, and always believe that we should aim to get more profit out of Ashton Gate on non-matchdays during the season as well.

[Johnny Casio]

I think it could be something to look at during the season, the dolman exhibiton hall can be used much like the Anson rooms at Bristol Uni.

[The Man In Black]

I suppose we have two problems in that respect - distance from town and local residents.

Although I expect if you put on a big enough band people will make the journey.

Local residents complaining about noise pollution may be a bigger problem...

[42nite]

Can't have them pre-season because of the possible damage to the pitch.

[The Man In Black]

If you look at the pitch behind bcfcrobin it doesn't look too bad

http://www.bcfc.premiumtv.co.uk/page/News/...~674995,00.html

Although yes, you couldn't do too much (and besides, having too many concerts would be likely to impact sales and prices as people can be more choosy about which they go to).

What swindlered was pondering though was which makes more money (friendlies or concerts) and sharky and myself were thinking about events that didn't use the pitch.

[Antman]

I recall colin sexedup saying Elton brought in about 500K to the club so it clearly makes sense

(pitch permitting)

[zookeeper]

I recall colin sexedup saying Elton brought in about 500K to the club so it clearly makes sense

(pitch permitting)

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Is that revenue or profit. There is a substantial risk to these sort of events which is often down to the money raised and saved by getting the right sponsors. Also I believe that many of these events are underwritten by companies to guarentee a break even amount.

[The Man In Black]

Well, lets say that the average ticket cost for the Neil Diamond concert was £50.

At 21,000 tickets sold that's £1,050,000.

I've no idea what cut the performer takes, but there's other revenue builders such as caterers paying to sell their wares in the car park, as well as our own alcohol and drinks sales.

I presume the stage and equipment is partly financed by the artist, since they have the stuff that they like and haul around with them.

Sponsorship as well on top, and as for marketing costs, I can only assume a wedge of this was underwritten by seeticketing (I think they were selling tickets) since it was their advert on the tele.

I wonder whether the park and ride brings in some income for the club, since it's us bringing in the punters, charging them five quid and advertising it on our site.

Getting a proven artist like Elton John, Neil Diamond and Rod Stewart is guaranteed to get some revenue in, surely? This concert had to be worth around a couple of hundred thousand profit to us, surely?

And on a positive note, we've now hosted Bryan Adams, Elton John, Neil Diamond and soon Rod Stewart. I'm sure our reputation in the south-west is now going quite nicely for future concerts, which can only help future opportunities for getting artists in.

[Antman]

If their (gross profit) margins are less than 10% on those sorts of ticket sales figures they need to think again.

I would hope they turn about 300K in profit.

[zookeeper]

Well, lets say that the average ticket cost for the Neil Diamond concert was £50.

At 21,000 tickets sold that's £1,050,000.

I would imagine that a fair whack of the sales were at a lower priced ticket with only a few paying the top price.

I imagine that 70% of the ticket sales had no corporate add ons and were solely seet tickets.

The rest of the post I agree with and hope that the club has lined its pockets to the tune of a few hundred grand.

[Guest Moose]

There are some interesting suggestions in this thread, but the real answer relates to who is promoting the gig.

Generally speaking the promoter would hire a venue outright, such as the Bierkeller or the Anson Rooms, or Ashton Gate in our case. This might be on a fixed fee basis, or could be on a fee plus a percentage of ticket sales or some other "performance" related deal. Generally speaking though, the ticket cash goes to the promoter, from which the artist is paid, PA and lights (and stage) are paid for, transport, accomadation, security and all the other costs etc are covered. Some of these will be via an agent, so then there's cuts of cuts - more complicated than Ashley Cole going for a beer and a chat with his mate from Chelski.....

If the promotor is doing his job, he'll have all the catering, concessions, programmes, T-shirts etc nailed too - he's taking the risk of a small turn-out, so will get the lions share of the cash too. This could be a "she" too - just generalising girls.......

Now, if we have a smart commercial team (maybe??) and we have a guarenteed name draw (Bryan Adams, Elton, Neil or Rod - yep, Bon Jovi for next year, apparently.....) we'd need to co-promote to make the most cash. If we did this it'd be on the tickets - "Harvy Goldsmith, in association with BCFC presents......". Also, didn't Blue play a few years ago too (maybe not such a good name draw) plus the Stones way back in the mists of time.......

So, how much did we make???? How much risk did we take????? £100-£150k would be my guess, unless our name was on the tickets.

[Guest]

There are some interesting suggestions in this thread, but the real answer relates to who is promoting the gig.

Generally speaking the promoter would hire a venue outright, such as the Bierkeller or the Anson Rooms, or Ashton Gate in our case. This might be on a fixed fee basis, or could be on a fee plus a percentage of ticket sales or some other "performance" related deal. Generally speaking though, the ticket cash goes to the promoter, from which the artist is paid, PA and lights (and stage) are paid for, transport, accomadation, security and all the other costs etc are covered. Some of these will be via an agent, so then there's cuts of cuts - more complicated than Ashley Cole going for a beer and a chat with his mate from Chelski.....

If the promotor is doing his job, he'll have all the catering, concessions, programmes, T-shirts etc nailed too - he's taking the risk of a small turn-out, so will get the lions share of the cash too. This could be a "she" too - just generalising girls.......

Now, if we have a smart commercial team (maybe??) and we have a guarenteed name draw (Bryan Adams, Elton, Neil or Rod - yep, Bon Jovi for next year, apparently.....) we'd need to co-promote to make the most cash. If we did this it'd be on the tickets - "Harvy Goldsmith, in association with BCFC presents......". Also, didn't Blue play a few years ago too (maybe not such a good name draw) plus the Stones way back in the mists of time.......

So, how much did we make???? How much risk did we take????? £100-£150k would be my guess, unless our name was on the tickets.

←

Moose, you obviously know something about the business!

Whilst we do not put our name on the tickets as promoter, that is the role that we fulfill - with the club funding all aspects including the artist fee. We work hard to get the right deal, which can then be put forward to the Board for approval (after all it is their money that we are risking).

Some other clubs just hire out the stadium (as we did for the Bryan Adams concert), and whilst this carries far less risk, the potential revenue is far less. So far we have been successful in acquiring deals that have worked well for the club, but there are a number of clubs this year that will record 6 figure losses on concerts. We will not be one of them, in fact quite the reverse. So far they have been very cash positive, and also bring the club great PR benefits. Credit must go to the off field staff who work so hard to bring the events to fruition, from the groundman to the stewards.

[Guest Moose]

Moose, you obviously know something about the business! 

Whilst we do not put our name on the tickets as promoter, that is the role that we fulfill - with the club funding all aspects including the artist fee.  We work hard to get the right deal, which can then be put forward to the Board for approval (after all it is their money that we are risking).

Some other clubs just hire out the stadium (as we did for the Bryan Adams concert), and whilst this carries far less risk, the potential revenue is far less.  So far we have been successful in acquiring deals that have worked well for the club, but there are a number of clubs this year that will record 6 figure losses on concerts.  We will not be one of them, in fact quite the reverse.  So far they have been very cash positive, and also bring the club great PR benefits.  Credit must go to the off field staff who work so hard to bring the events to fruition, from the groundman to the stewards.

←

Thanks for the reply Richard.

My "knowledge of the business" was from the other end really - either playing in a band (and making nowt!!!) or seeing how things worked at the Bierkeller (a good friend booked the bands, so delt with the agents and promoters etc, as well as self promoting gigs from time to time).

Good to hear that the club have done well from the big non-football deals - so I'll replace my "maybe???" from the earlier post with a "definately seems like it!!!" if that's ok.

So, Bon Jovi for next year??????

[jimtastic]

So, Bon Jovi for next year??????

I still reckon WWE would be a good bet. It consistently sells out around the UK and would bring a different demographic to the Gate.

I'd probably go too. Shhhh...

[lukejones2]

My memory is sketchy but I seem to remember Richard saying that the breakeven point was met a couple of months/a month ago. I can't exactly remember why but I felt that breakeven was around 16 - 17,000 people per concert.

So, if we assume 2 gigs of 20,000 people, of whom 16,500 generate breakeven levels of turnover, and there are no further variable costs for the extra people we shall assume 1,000 free tickets per gig = 5,000 tickets over the two gigs therefore being above breakeven.

At £50 average each this would make 250k profit on the ticket sales alone excluding catering/bar etc... the estimates above are fairly conservative so I think half a mill from the two is quite feasible...?

[zookeeper]

My memory is sketchy but I seem to remember Richard saying that the breakeven point was met a couple of months/a month ago.  I can't exactly remember why but I felt that breakeven was around 16 - 17,000 people per concert.

So, if we assume 2 gigs of 20,000 people, of whom 16,500 generate breakeven levels of turnover, and there are no further variable costs for the extra people we shall assume 1,000 free tickets per gig = 5,000 tickets over the two gigs therefore being above breakeven.

At £50 average each this would make 250k profit on the ticket sales alone excluding catering/bar etc...  the estimates above are fairly conservative so I think half a mill from the two is quite feasible...?

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Do you really think the average price would be £50?

[Guest Dorset Red]

I recall colin sexedup saying Elton brought in about 500K to the club so it clearly makes sense

(pitch permitting)

←

Don't get too carried away people. I seem to recall someone telling me that the Elton John Concert taking place tonight at the County Ground is only going to earn Swindon about £80,000 plus whatever they make on the catering. I'd be surprised if the net takings exceeded £160-£180K.

That's still more than we'd earn from a couple of friendlies but it's nowhere near the half million I've seen some people talk about.

Don't forget these are big names we are talking about and they're prime motive is to make a profit for themselves, not to gift huge sums of money to the clubs concerned.

Maybe we should organise a sort of "Live Aid" type benefit gig involving performers who have affiliated themselves to football teams.

Who would be in the line-up?

I can only think of the following;-

Oasis (Man City)

Kasabian (Leicester City)

Robbie Williams (Port Vale)

Any more?

[Guest Dorset Red]

Don't forget these are big names we are talking about and they're prime motive is to make a profit for themselves,

←

Sorry folks! What sort of spelling was that!!!!? I realise that should have been "their" not "they're" !!!!!!!!!!

[Evocare]

Its great we can attract big names here and make a decent profit from it aswell, i've spent a lot of time helping to organize such events and its not easy to do, it requires a lot of planning, expecially if you want to make good returns.

Colin Sexton deserves a mention for ensuring the sucessful running of these events and lets hope it continues in the future.

[Josef Stalin]

The other thing is that with the increasing absence of transfer deals these days for clubs like us, this does represent a good way to turn a bit of cash.

I was actually impressed by the admission that the club involves itself as it does with these concerts. The fact is now we will have staged 3-4 major concerts and will be recognised as such.

I wonder if it's worth investing in a more hardy turf though to allow for 2-3 concerts in the close season.

(no rugby though please!)

[Stoke_Gifford_Red]

Don't get too carried away people. I seem to recall someone telling me that the Elton John Concert taking place tonight at the County Ground is only going to earn Swindon about £80,000 plus whatever they make on the catering. I'd be surprised if the net takings exceeded £160-£180K.

That's still more than we'd earn from a couple of friendlies but it's nowhere near the half million I've seen some people talk about.

Don't forget these are big names we are talking about and they're prime motive is to make a profit for themselves, not to gift huge sums of money to the clubs concerned.

Maybe we should organise a sort of "Live Aid" type benefit gig involving performers who have affiliated themselves to football teams.

Who would be in the line-up?

I can only think of the following;-

Oasis (Man City)

Kasabian (Leicester City)

Robbie Williams (Port Vale)

Any more?

←

Yes but I think you were hiring the venue out, and a third party was taking most of the risk, and therefore the lions share of the profit. Us on the other hand promote it ourselves, so we have all the risk, but have the potential to make more money. I would also assume Ashton Gate holds more than the County Ground, but I may be wrong.

[England]

Well, lets say that the average ticket cost for the Neil Diamond concert was £50.

At 21,000 tickets sold that's £1,050,000.

I've no idea what cut the performer takes, but there's other revenue builders such as caterers paying to sell their wares in the car park, as well as our own alcohol and drinks sales.

I presume the stage and equipment is partly financed by the artist, since they have the stuff that they like and haul around with them.

Sponsorship as well on top, and as for marketing costs, I can only assume a wedge of this was underwritten by seeticketing (I think they were selling tickets) since it was their advert on the tele.

I wonder whether the park and ride brings in some income for the club, since it's us bringing in the punters, charging them five quid and advertising it on our site.

Getting a proven artist like Elton John, Neil Diamond and Rod Stewart is guaranteed to get some revenue in, surely? This concert had to be worth around a couple of hundred thousand profit to us, surely?

And on a positive note, we've now hosted Bryan Adams, Elton John, Neil Diamond and soon Rod Stewart. I'm sure our reputation in the south-west is now going quite nicely for future concerts, which can only help future opportunities for getting artists in.

←

Are they all pensioners?

[Stoke_Gifford_Red]

Are they all pensioners?

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Don't knock it I expect over 50s/60s can spend a lot more on tickets and on other things (drinks etc.) than the younger generations. That is probably why they get these people in. But I would wish they would hurry up having someone that I would like.

[i_am_red]

Maybe we should organise a sort of "Live Aid" type benefit gig involving performers who have affiliated themselves to football teams.

Who would be in the line-up?

I can only think of the following;-

Oasis (Man City)

Kasabian (Leicester City)

Robbie Williams (Port Vale)

Any more?

←

Kaiser cheifs (leeds) they named themselves after the club they bought radebe from

[keeno85]

Don't get too carried away people. I seem to recall someone telling me that the Elton John Concert taking place tonight at the County Ground is only going to earn Swindon about £80,000 plus whatever they make on the catering. I'd be surprised if the net takings exceeded £160-£180K.

That's still more than we'd earn from a couple of friendlies but it's nowhere near the half million I've seen some people talk about.

Don't forget these are big names we are talking about and they're prime motive is to make a profit for themselves, not to gift huge sums of money to the clubs concerned.

Maybe we should organise a sort of "Live Aid" type benefit gig involving performers who have affiliated themselves to football teams.

Who would be in the line-up?

I can only think of the following;-

Oasis (Man City)

Kasabian (Leicester City)

Robbie Williams (Port Vale)

Any more?

←

Yes but think i'd be right in thinking that we promoted the concerts ourselves and took all the financial risk, whereas Swindon had an outiside backer, which would obviously guarantee City a far greater revenue and a bigger profit ( heard it was somewhere in the region of £200,000- £250,000 for recent concerts but to be honest no-one except the chairman and Colin will really know!) one thing of note has to be a major reason for building the new stand as on attending a concert at highfield roard recently, all the boxes were full, with there still many spaces free in the stands.

[city1uk]

Richard Latham in today's Sunday Independant says £150k was made from Diamond concert.

Would have thought same from Rod Stewart.

[RedUn]

Moose, you obviously know something about the business! 

Whilst we do not put our name on the tickets as promoter, that is the role that we fulfill - with the club funding all aspects including the artist fee.  We work hard to get the right deal, which can then be put forward to the Board for approval (after all it is their money that we are risking).

Some other clubs just hire out the stadium (as we did for the Bryan Adams concert), and whilst this carries far less risk, the potential revenue is far less.  So far we have been successful in acquiring deals that have worked well for the club, but there are a number of clubs this year that will record 6 figure losses on concerts.  We will not be one of them, in fact quite the reverse.  So far they have been very cash positive, and also bring the club great PR benefits.  Credit must go to the off field staff who work so hard to bring the events to fruition, from the groundman to the stewards.

←

All well and good Richard ... best of the luck with the new job even if I am a Glamorgan fan ... any clues as to why the actual figures can't be stated unambiguously in the Annual Report instead of hidden with the 30-odd per cent of turnover that is categorised as "other"?