Bristol Boy Posted September 25, 2005 Report Share Posted September 25, 2005 Assuming there are no signings and that Fortune, Carey & Russell are still injured, I would make some changes for the two home games.Some might say, never change a winning team, most of those don't see all the games home and away and, whilst leaving it the same is no disaster, I still think there are two formations that would suit us better...................................................................BURCH...........................................................................................................KEOGH...........................HEYWOOD.................PARTRIDGE.........................................ORR.....................BROWN...........................WILKSHIRE...............SMITH G.........................WOODMAN.................................................BROOKER...........................MADJO.............................................................SUBSBRIDGESSTEWARTCOTTERILLGOLBOURNESKUSEOR...............................................................BURCH........................................................................................................KEOGH.............................HEYWOOD..........................PARTRIDGE.................................ORR..............................BROWN................................WILKSHIRE............................SMITH G.......................................................BRIDGES......................................................STEWART.....................................................................................................BROOKER.............................................................................SUBSCOTTERILLMADJOSKUSEWOODMANPHILLIPSAs I posted earlier, Phillips is looking shaky on crosses and that's such a big part of the League One game.Both Stewart & Bridges look made to play in the whole and by both dropping off they would get the ball facing goal where they can pick out runners instead of playing with their back to goal and having the ball played up to them in the air.Of the two, I think that, currently, the 3-5-2 is better & easier for the players we have fit and available.Madjo & Brooker will be a handfull home & away providing they get even half decent service and, in this Division, you need pace & power up front and blokes who know where the net is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex_BCFC Posted September 25, 2005 Report Share Posted September 25, 2005 Despite Phillips and Woodman not being the best players at the moment I'd keep the same team from Saturday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC Grim Posted September 25, 2005 Report Share Posted September 25, 2005 i like both teams, but after saturday we shouldnt change it, and before you say anything i have been every game this season , i can see what your saying but the season started against brentford and that team worked, so for now we should keep things the same On Tuesday night lets make a great atmosphere for the lads and Gary and cheer us on to victory, Lets make the gate a fortress and be the 12th man. so everyone sing their hearts out, the ateyo,dolman and williams. All together Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SE23Red Posted September 25, 2005 Report Share Posted September 25, 2005 Assuming there are no signings and that Fortune, Carey & Russell are still injured, I would make some changes for the two home games.Some might say, never change a winning team, most of those don't see all the games home and away and, whilst leaving it the same is no disaster, I still think there are two formations that would suit us better...................................................................BURCH...........................................................................................................KEOGH...........................HEYWOOD.................PARTRIDGE.........................................ORR.....................BROWN...........................WILKSHIRE...............SMITH G.........................WOODMAN.................................................BROOKER...........................MADJO.............................................................SUBSBRIDGESSTEWARTCOTTERILLGOLBOURNESKUSEOR...............................................................BURCH........................................................................................................KEOGH.............................HEYWOOD..........................PARTRIDGE.................................ORR..............................BROWN................................WILKSHIRE............................SMITH G.......................................................BRIDGES......................................................STEWART.....................................................................................................BROOKER.............................................................................SUBSCOTTERILLMADJOSKUSEWOODMANPHILLIPSAs I posted earlier, Phillips is looking shaky on crosses and that's such a big part of the League One game.Both Stewart & Bridges look made to play in the whole and by both dropping off they would get the ball facing goal where they can pick out runners instead of playing with their back to goal and having the ball played up to them in the air.Of the two, I think that, currently, the 3-5-2 is better & easier for the players we have fit and available.Madjo & Brooker will be a handfull home & away providing they get even half decent service and, in this Division, you need pace & power up front and blokes who know where the net is.The teams are not the worst ever posted here but after our best 90 mins of the season you are proposing 4 changes of personnel and a formation change? Never going to happen.GJ said in his first interview that it is up to the current players to keep the shirt. Some played better than others yesterday but none deserved to be dropped. I also think we will see 4-4-2 for the next 10 games, probably longer than that if it goes well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaz897 Posted September 25, 2005 Report Share Posted September 25, 2005 Yeah woith the players not playing to a ''structure'' as GJ calls it. A formation change would be silly. I agree with givin Phillips a rest though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob k Posted September 25, 2005 Report Share Posted September 25, 2005 i would keep stewart in the side, i thought him and wilkshire linked well yesterday and he made some good runs. I would not play brooker and Madjo together at home as if things are not going right i could see the ball being lumped forward at every oppurtunity.I would kep the same side for Tues but if had to make a change it would be brooker for madjo which would be harsh as i thought he had a good debut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tunley Legend Posted September 25, 2005 Report Share Posted September 25, 2005 The one thing I would NOT do on Tuesday night is make ANY changes (fitness permitting), regardless of the current form of one or two individuals. Yesterday's win might actually help those particular individuals on Tuesday. Making numerous changes to the side and formation, Tinnion style, is one of the main reasons we find ourselves in this current predicament.We have not named an unchanged side since day 1 - now would be a good time to start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chivs Posted September 25, 2005 Report Share Posted September 25, 2005 Your 3-5-2 has a lot going for it not least the fact that it could easily become a 4-4-2 with Orr or Woodman dropping back if need be.I like it but I'd be surprised to see it happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted September 25, 2005 Report Share Posted September 25, 2005 It just goes to show how little some fans actually know about a football.Why would any manager change a winning side unless he was forced to by injuries or suspensions.What kind of message does that send out to his players?And 4-4-2 or 3-5-2? Most teams will play both formations in the same game! Usually 4-4-2 when you don't have the ball and 3-5-2 when you do....thats why players have be fit and reamain focused.It never fails to make me smile when you have threads like this....absolutely clueless.. and yet they all think the're experts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhatWill Posted September 25, 2005 Report Share Posted September 25, 2005 It just goes to show how little some fans actually know about a football.Why would any manager change a winning side unless he was forced to by injuries or suspensions.What kind of message does that send out to his players?And 4-4-2 or 3-5-2? Most teams will play both formations in the same game! Usually 4-4-2 when you don't have the ball and 3-5-2 when you do....thats why players have be fit and reamain focused.It never fails to make me smile when you have threads like this....absolutely clueless.. and yet they all think the're experts.I think I'm right in saying that Bristol Boy is/was a trained football coach and possibly a manager at one stage...?What exactly qualifies you to be such an expert on football tactics Robbo? To what level did you play the game and what coaching badges do you hold? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chivs Posted September 25, 2005 Report Share Posted September 25, 2005 It just goes to show how little some fans actually know about a football.Why would any manager change a winning side unless he was forced to by injuries or suspensions.What kind of message does that send out to his players?Possibly because the manager adapts to the team he is playing against? Or plays a different team at home from away. But then I'm no expert...And 4-4-2 or 3-5-2? Most teams will play both formations in the same game! Usually 4-4-2 when you don't have the ball and 3-5-2 when you do....thats why players have be fit and reamain focused.Woodman's thoughts: "Carey has the ball - does that count as having the ball or not - should I go to 3-5-2 - or stick to 4-4-2 - crikey this is confusing "It never fails to make me smile when you have threads like this....absolutely clueless.. and yet they all think the're experts.Unlike you because you know you are clueless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southy354 Posted September 25, 2005 Report Share Posted September 25, 2005 Good news for us about the barnsley squad they are missin 2 players due 2 bans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted September 25, 2005 Report Share Posted September 25, 2005 I think I'm right in saying that Bristol Boy is/was a trained football coach and possibly a manager at one stage...?What exactly qualifies you to be such an expert on football tactics Robbo? To what level did you play the game and what coaching badges do you hold? I don't have any coaching qualifications but then you don't necessarily need them to understand the basics of football formations.It ain't rocket science.....I played at semi-professional level - albeit 30 years ago in the old Western League. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedTop Posted September 25, 2005 Report Share Posted September 25, 2005 If we learned one thing from the Tinnion reign it is that chopping and changing the team every week doesn't work.The team on Saturday got by far the best result of the season for us and should start on Tuesday, unchanged.I think Brooker is excellent, but if should be up to him, and those others not in the starting XI, to earn their places back. And it should be made hard for them.If nothing it will make those who star realise they can't afford to drop their form or get suspended, because it's going to be tough to dislodge whoever replaces them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazareth Posted September 25, 2005 Report Share Posted September 25, 2005 If we learned one thing from the Tinnion reign it is that chopping and changing the team every week doesn't work.I was about to post this.We won on Saturday and the players who didn't play so well should be given the chance to make up for it. Dropping players after 1 iffy game destroys confidence and breeds a culture of fear in the dressing room as the other players will be afraid to make mistakes and thus less likely to take risks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristolian76 Posted September 25, 2005 Report Share Posted September 25, 2005 Johnson will hopefully pick the same team as saturday, if anything to show that if the players perform like that then they will hold down a place. Consistency is the key, I'm 99% he will keep the same team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CITY BOY DAVE Posted September 25, 2005 Report Share Posted September 25, 2005 PHILLIPS NOT IN THE STARTING LINEUP U EITHER NEED HELP OR GLASSES Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Robertxxx28 Posted September 26, 2005 Report Share Posted September 26, 2005 PHILLIPS NOT IN THE STARTING LINEUP U EITHER NEED HELP OR GLASSES Agreed Phillips must start Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spud55 Posted September 26, 2005 Report Share Posted September 26, 2005 PHILLIPS NOT IN THE STARTING LINEUP U EITHER NEED HELP OR GLASSES Have you seen our other keeper play ?I can't be sure but i'm fairly sure that BB used to and mabye still does keep a fairly good eye on the reserves, so may well have seen him play. I haven't and have no idea about him, so i personally would not advocate him starting in a league game, mabye the LDV tie, but i can't see him being a bad keeper, and if he offers things in the areas where Phillips is weakest, then mabye loosing a bit of shot stopping ability will be a good thing for the defensive unit.I personally wouldn't advocate changing the side at the moment, confidence is a fragile thing, so easy to loose and one hell of a lot harder to build, so i would say that the most important thing at the moment is keeping a settled side to build come confidence assuming we can win the next game or 2 and then think abut changing they systyem.Saying that i like both of BB's formations as the offer a good degree of fluidity, which is always useful, but i'm not sure now is the time to change the system as what we have at the moment worked away at one of the sides higher up the table than us and who have a descent home record if i recall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Boy Posted September 26, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 26, 2005 PHILLIPS NOT IN THE STARTING LINEUP U EITHER NEED HELP OR GLASSES AND YOU OBVIOUSLY DIDN'T GO TO BRENTFORD AND SEE HIM FLAPPING AT EVERYTHING THAT LOOKED LIKE A HALF DECENT CROSS.LOOK AT THE SECOND GOAL..............AND STOP SHOUTING Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazareth Posted September 26, 2005 Report Share Posted September 26, 2005 Phillips messed up for the second goal but Heywood didn't help - he just stood there and a) stopped Phillips from getting to the cross and b) didn't actually challenge Sodje. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Boy Posted September 26, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 26, 2005 Have you seen our other keeper play ?I can't be sure but i'm fairly sure that BB used to and mabye still does keep a fairly good eye on the reserves, so may well have seen him play. I haven't and have no idea about him, so i personally would not advocate him starting in a league game, mabye the LDV tie, but i can't see him being a bad keeper, and if he offers things in the areas where Phillips is weakest, then mabye loosing a bit of shot stopping ability will be a good thing for the defensive unit.I personally wouldn't advocate changing the side at the moment, confidence is a fragile thing, so easy to loose and one hell of a lot harder to build, so i would say that the most important thing at the moment is keeping a settled side to build come confidence assuming we can win the next game or 2 and then think abut changing they systyem.Saying that i like both of BB's formations as the offer a good degree of fluidity, which is always useful, but i'm not sure now is the time to change the system as what we have at the moment worked away at one of the sides higher up the table than us and who have a descent home record if i recall.If Burch isn't better on crosses than Phillips and doesn't offer competition, it kinda begs the question, why is he here, then?For example, if we don't want to chance him in a League game, what happens if Phillips is injured in training on Friday?My gripe with Phillips, which was highlighted at Brentford, is that he is poor on crosses and, if anything, is getting worse and not better.Given that we mainly concede from set pieces/crosses, why not give the other lad, who, from what I've seen, is good on crosses a chance?On the formations, as has been said by a few informed people, not numpties like Robbored,your team needs to be flexible and wlll need to play differently against different opposition.For example I wouldn't want to play Partrige & Heywood against small, pacy forwards, where a three provides cover and gets our best players on the pitch.Brooker is our best chance of a goal, in the current squad and Madjo deserves a run out at home after a good debut.I don't actually think GJ will change it much but let's wait and see.Phillips messed up for the second goal but Heywood didn't help - he just stood there and a) stopped Phillips from getting to the cross and b) didn't actually challenge Sodje.Phillips is over 6', can jump and put his arms up, so I reckon that's about 8' with his arams extended.Heywood couldn't get up as high with Sodje on his back.Every time Brentofrd put a half decent ball in the box we struggled with Phillips.His punching was awful and didn't get any distance on the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stortfordred Posted September 26, 2005 Report Share Posted September 26, 2005 I personally wouldn't advocate changing the side at the moment, .Surely you guys will allow GJ to pick the team this week. It's his job otherwise the board would have appointed you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Cyril Posted September 26, 2005 Report Share Posted September 26, 2005 Have you seen our other keeper play ?I watched him with interest at the reserve game with Cheltenham. He immediately impressed me as a loud talking boss of his box. He came for most things, and forced the Cheltenham wingers to adjust their game, cross more squarely etc.But coming for crosses comes at a price. When he did miss one, the ball was in the back of the net.Pros and cons both ways between a keeper rooted to his line and one who attacks the ball, but it is a fine line between someone who comes effectively for the high balls, and someone who will get it wrong every so often in the Calamity James mould.Not much point taking Burch on loan if he doesn't get a game, and agree Barnet is worth a dabble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Boy Posted September 26, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 26, 2005 It just goes to show how little some fans actually know about a football.You prove that every time you post something. Why would any manager change a winning side unless he was forced to by injuries or suspensions.Does the name Mourinho mean anything to you? Won every game this season and changes his team every weekWhat kind of message does that send out to his players?Keeps them off the Waterfront and on their toes And 4-4-2 or 3-5-2? Most teams will play both formations in the same game! Usually 4-4-2 when you don't have the ball and 3-5-2 when you do....thats why players have be fit and reamain focused.Under your mate Tinnion, we played four or five in some games and you still defended itIt never fails to make me smile when you have threads like this....absolutely clueless.. and yet they all think the're experts.What annoys me about you isn't the fact that you disagree, that's what the forum is all about, lively debate, god bless it.No, it's the sanctimoneous, "I know better," tone of it.Either that or it's "How dare you, say so?" in the style of The Forum Police!Listen.I've already said that we could win playing 4-4-2, but that doesn't mean it's the best system for us with the players in our squad.There's no doubt that there is greater confidence after Saturday. I actually enjoyed the game and that's the first time in ages I can say that.But if you want continuos improvement, that means weeding out the little bits that are wrong and detracted from the performance as well as continuing with the good bits:Poor Defensive Concentration.Lack of "zip" in the warm up, provoking the players to be "flat" at the start of games.Phillips Handling of Crosses.Stewart lacking the pace he needs to run onto Madjo/Brookers nod ons.Brown's better in a more central role-as are all of our genuine midfielders.That's a problem in a 4-4-2.Skuses' lack of creativity in midfield.Lots of things were right and much better.However, as I am sure GJ would be the first to say, it's the start not the finish of the turnaround.PS If we're going to keep playing 4-4-2 watch him make a couple of loan signings PDQ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Boy Posted September 26, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 26, 2005 I don't have any coaching qualificationsClearly but then you don't necessarily need them to understand the basics of footballAs BT & KM proved formations.It ain't rocket science.....I played at semi-professional level - albeit 30 years ago in the old Western League.No it isn't.You can have any system you like but if you loose the players and they don't give 100% you're screwed, ala Swansea 7-1, although Heywood, Partridge, Russell & Brooker in the team could well have mitigated that loss.What YOU do need to do is understand the right of others to have an opinion and give them the right to express that opinion, providing it's done in the right way (ie not sarcasm or accussing them of being clueless) and that's what your detractors are getting at.I'd change it and I think GJ may make at least one if not two changes and you wouldn't.Either way, I think we'll get a result Surely you guys will allow GJ to pick the team this week. It's his job otherwise the board would have appointed you! It's an opinion and this is a Forum.GJ WILL pick the team whatever we say, but that doesn't prevent the debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazareth Posted September 26, 2005 Report Share Posted September 26, 2005 Phillips is over 6', can jump and put his arms up, so I reckon that's about 8' with his arams extended.Heywood couldn't get up as high with Sodje on his back.Every time Brentofrd put a half decent ball in the box we struggled with Phillips.His punching was awful and didn't get any distance on the ball. True. Phillips should have stayed on his line, I agree. He misjudged the likelihood of being able to get to the ball. However, my point stands that Heywood stood there and did nothing but get in the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickJ Posted September 26, 2005 Report Share Posted September 26, 2005 Phillips is generally recognized as one of the better keepers in the division, so I think the criticism is harsh to say the least - but I haven't see Burch play so I cannot comment on him.Orr was a revelation at right wing back against, Colchester in the second half I think it was, and christ knows why he was subsequently dropped - so I agree on that one.It's the attacking options I am a bit confused about.One team has neither Bridges or Stewart in the starting line-up, the other has them both. You identify Stewart's lack of pace as being a concern because he wont pick up the flick ons by Brooker or Madjo - but your alternative team has Brooker on his own up front with Stewart and Bridges behind. The reasoning I presume is that Brooker under this formation doesnt flick on but holds up - but I cant see that happening throughout 90 minutes.The midfield/attacking decisions are the hard ones. Having seen Gillespie against Colchester and Swansea, I thought he wasnt good enough, but he showed enough against Blackpool to change my view. And yet, there is something not right in leaving players of the quality of Bridges and Stewart out. Sounds like Wilkshire was good at Brentford, but he comes into the inconsistent category. SmithG hasnt made much of an impact, and for me he may eventually join SmithJ and Fortune on the goodbye list, with Murray, as much as I like him, probably living on borrowed time.Overall however, I do not think we should change Saturday's team, with the possible exception of Brooker. The reference to Mourinho is not really relevant. He has 25 quality players full of confidence, top of the league, etc etc. We have a squad of ok players lacking confidence and cohesion who are bottom of the league - after a good performance, I think it would be better man management to give them an opportunity to do it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Braemarstan Posted September 26, 2005 Report Share Posted September 26, 2005 True. Phillips should have stayed on his line, I agree. He misjudged the likelihood of being able to get to the ball. However, my point stands that Heywood stood there and did nothing but get in the way. Watch the highlights again.Heywood was back-pedalling across the six yard box to get to the flight of the ball.Phillips and Sodje were both attacking the ball moving forwards, Phillips from his line and Sodje from beyond the back post.Now, you may have a different skeletal and muscle structure from everybody else but in my experience its physically impossible to get very far off the ground when your moving backwards. Heywood never had any hope at all of beating Sodje in the air from their respective starting positions. Phillips was the only City player who could have got there first and he just didn't attack the ball hard enough.He should have cleaned both Sodje and Heywood out in his attempt to win the ball, but he was as switched off as all his teammates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rednotblue Posted September 26, 2005 Report Share Posted September 26, 2005 Assuming there are no signings and that Fortune, Carey & Russell are still injured, I would make some changes for the two home games.Some might say, never change a winning team, most of those don't see all the games home and away and, whilst leaving it the same is no disaster, I still think there are two formations that would suit us better...................................................................BURCH...........................................................................................................KEOGH...........................HEYWOOD.................PARTRIDGE.........................................ORR.....................BROWN...........................WILKSHIRE...............SMITH G.........................WOODMAN.................................................BROOKER...........................MADJO.............................................................SUBSBRIDGESSTEWARTCOTTERILLGOLBOURNESKUSEOR...............................................................BURCH........................................................................................................KEOGH.............................HEYWOOD..........................PARTRIDGE.................................ORR..............................BROWN................................WILKSHIRE............................SMITH G.......................................................BRIDGES......................................................STEWART.....................................................................................................BROOKER.............................................................................SUBSCOTTERILLMADJOSKUSEWOODMANPHILLIPSAs I posted earlier, Phillips is looking shaky on crosses and that's such a big part of the League One game.Both Stewart & Bridges look made to play in the whole and by both dropping off they would get the ball facing goal where they can pick out runners instead of playing with their back to goal and having the ball played up to them in the air.Of the two, I think that, currently, the 3-5-2 is better & easier for the players we have fit and available.Madjo & Brooker will be a handfull home & away providing they get even half decent service and, in this Division, you need pace & power up front and blokes who know where the net is.But will we get service with Orr and Woodman playing as wingbacks?? Or Smith in you second option.The first is too narrow as Orr and Woodman are not attacking enough so we are going to be crossing from deep, secondly who is the holding player in midfield? Brown is a box to box player, he'd be wasted as the holding player I'm assuming that's who you've chosen.It's a nice idea but one if chosen I feel would mean we would play far too much ball through the middle and lack width. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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