Team V Barnsley

[Robbored]

As BT & KM proved.

Well BB you have shown how little you really do know. Both Millen and Tinnion have all the necessary coaching qualifications - otherwise they would not be qualified to any coaching in professional football.Millen in particular is very well qualified and is currently working on the highest qualification of the lot.

As for formations - most managers will tell you that its far better to concentrate on your own teams strengths and weaknesses and not worry too much about the opposition.I don't buy that you change a winning side to accomodate the opposition.

In the case of Chelsea and Mourinho - he has the luxury of many of the best players in the world,all of whom he has to keep happy.He has quality everywhere you look.Cudicini would walk into virtually any other Premiership side as would the likes of Drogba and Gudjonsson.

That said Mourinho sticks to the same core players.Same 'keeper,same centerback and same midfielder....

[Bristol Boy]

Phillips is generally recognized as one of the better keepers in the division, so I think the criticism is harsh to say the least - but I haven't see Burch play so I cannot comment on him.

Fair enough but even the better players loose form, need motivation and get dropped.

Orr was a revelation at right wing back against, Colchester in the second half I think it was, and christ knows why he was subsequently dropped - so I agree on that one.

Chesterfield away last season and Blackpool at home.He'd be an even better wing back than full back with his engine.

It's the attacking options I am a bit confused about.

One team has neither Bridges or Stewart in the starting line-up, the other has them both. You identify Stewart's lack of pace as being a concern because he wont pick up the flick ons by Brooker or Madjo - but your alternative team has Brooker on his own up front with Stewart and Bridges behind. The reasoning I presume is that Brooker under this formation doesnt flick on but holds up - but I cant see that happening throughout 90 minutes.

Good point.It's about Options.You either, hold it up, get Bridges & Stewart facing goal, not with their back to it and that's where they'll do damage OR in team one you accept that we're not the greatest passers, dominate midfield and get the likes of Brown, Smith & Wilkshire past the ball and in shooting positions, along with Madjo & Brookers physical presence and goal threat.

Both options won't work every week against every opposition, but they both play to our strengths.

The midfield/attacking decisions are the hard ones. Having seen Gillespie against Colchester and Swansea, I thought he wasnt good enough, but he showed enough against Blackpool to change my view. And yet, there is something not right in leaving players of the quality of Bridges and Stewart out. Sounds like Wilkshire was good at Brentford, but he comes into the inconsistent category.

It's the quality of their performances NOW, that causes me concern.Both are excellent footballers but the League Table doesn't lie and we shouldn't let their obvious quality at times cloud our judgement over 90 minutes. In this Division you require power & pace up front, with enough quality thrown in.Quality alone won't do it.

SmithG hasnt made much of an impact, and for me he may eventually join SmithJ and Fortune on the goodbye list, with Murray, as much as I like him, probably living on borrowed time.

Overall however, I do not think we should change Saturday's team, with the possible exception of Brooker. The reference to Mourinho is not really relevant. He has 25 quality players full of confidence, top of the league, etc etc. We have a squad of ok players lacking confidence and cohesion who are bottom of the league - after a good performance, I think it would be better man management to give them an opportunity to do it again.

I'd like to see Smith play in a central three or ven two before I condemn him to the transfer list but I agree with you on the others.

The reference to Mourinho was more to do with a managers success through changing things SENSIBLY, rather than a direct comparison, however, his team plays against the best in the world, not the best in League 1, so it's not totally frivolous.

Change or not, I think we'll win our next two games-How's that for confidence?

[Bristol Boy]

As BT & KM proved.

Well BB you have shown how little you really do know. Both Millen and Tinnion have all the necessary coaching qualifications - otherwise they would not be qualified to any coaching in professional football.Millen in particular is very well qualified and is currently working on the highest qualification of the lot.

Oh dear, as someone once said, there you go again.You've completely missed the point.I KNOW they are well qualified.They prove the point that, qualifications don't matter without the necessary application and nouse.

As for formations - most managers will tell you that its far better to concentrate on your own teams strengths and weaknesses and not worry too much about the opposition.I don't buy that you change a winning side to accomodate the opposition.

Christ, you really don't get it, do you.You change your team to hurt the opposition, not "accommodate" them or "worry" about them.

In the case of Chelsea and Mourinho - he has the luxury of many of the best players in the world,all of whom he has to keep happy.He has quality everywhere you look.Cudicini would walk into virtually any other Premiership side as would the likes of Drogba and Gudjonsson.

That said Mourinho sticks to the same core players.Same 'keeper,same centerback and same midfielder....

Core Players like Heywood, Partridge, Brown & Brooker-Yes, I'd agree.

You change the players that aren't doing it for players that are, or indeed, might do, given a chance.Why have a squad otherwise?

Mourinho's up against the best teams in the world and has the best players.We are in League One or The Third Division to give it it's traditional name and some of the same theories apply.

If GJ plays 4-4-2 or 3-7, I'll support the team and he'll get my 100% backing no matter how daft his selection..................providing he wins!

That's the bottom line.

Winners can do what they like without attracting much criticism, if any at all.

Losers?

I guess they become unemployed

But will we get service with Orr and Woodman playing as wingbacks?? Or Smith in you second option.

The first is too narrow as Orr and Woodman are not attacking enough so we are going to be crossing from deep, secondly who is the holding player in midfield? Brown is a box to box player, he'd be wasted as the holding player I'm assuming that's who you've chosen.

It's a nice idea but one if chosen I feel would mean we would play far too much ball through the middle and lack width.

In the 3-5-2 team, my prefered option, yes, because it fives Woodman & Orr chance to get forward and it was Woodmans deep cross that set up our first goal on Saturday.

Orr had one of our few shots on traget against Blackpool.

They aren't like Muuray & Bell were in their prime, going forward but are both better defenders.Until we sign, top class wing backs and until Golbourne matures & Fortune decides he's interested, I'm afraid they are our best option.

If we go on playing 4-4-2 what's the betting that GJ will sign a wide left and then even a wide right midfielder, as his first signings,providing AR gets fut and returns to central midfield, which seems weeks away.

Unless things change and Murray returns to form.

[gazareth]

Watch the highlights again.

Heywood was back-pedalling across the six yard box to get to the flight of the ball.

Phillips and Sodje were both attacking the ball moving forwards, Phillips from his line and Sodje from beyond the back post.

Now, you may have a different skeletal and muscle structure from everybody else but in my experience its physically impossible to get very far off the ground when your moving backwards. Heywood never had any hope at all of beating Sodje in the air from their respective starting positions. Phillips was the only City player who could have got there first and he just didn't attack the ball hard enough.

He should have cleaned both Sodje and Heywood out in his attempt to win the ball, but he was as switched off as all his teammates.

So Heywood should have gotten out of the way, rather than backpedalling into the way of his goalkeeper. I'm not exhonerating Phillips, just putting forward the theory that it was a combination of 2 mistakes that allowed Sodje such an easy header.

[Guest Frank]

So Heywood should have gotten out of the way, rather than backpedalling into the way of his goalkeeper. I'm not exhonerating Phillips, just putting forward the theory that it was a combination of 2 mistakes that allowed Sodje such an easy header.

I wouldn't say Heywood should have got out of the way. He was the defender nearest the ball, so had to try and challenge.

The only case for him getting out of the way would be if the keeper shouted "Mine!" very loudly or "Get out of the way!" would have worked just as well. I'm guessing that shout didn't come.

I've watched it a few times and still can't see how an outfield player can outjump a goalkeeper by such a distance when a goalkeeper can use his hands. Obviously Sodje was climbing on Heywood's back but Phillips should still have got there.

[Robbored]

The point about Phillips is that his indecision has been responsible for many goals over the last few seasons.He redeems himself in eyes of some fans by pulling off spectacular saves from time to time but overall he's the main culprit.

He has been the one constant throughout.Central defenders have changed but not the goalkeeper and apart from one better season under Wilson City have always had problems dealing with set-plays and crosses.It has to be down to Phillips not dominating his box.

At Forest last week we saw Russell Hoult taking crosses on the penalty spot.When do you ever see Phillips do that?

[Redtilldead]

The point about Phillips is that his indecision has been responsible for many goals over the last few seasons.He redeems himself in eyes of some fans by pulling off spectacular saves from time to time but overall he's the main culprit.

He has been the one constant throughout.Central defenders have changed but not the goalkeeper and apart from one better season under Wilson City have always had problems dealing with set-plays and crosses.It has to be down to Phillips not dominating his box.

At Forest last week we saw Russell Hoult taking crosses on the penalty spot.When do you ever see Phillips do that?

I have to say Robbo, you have got this absolutely spot on, I agree with this point 100%

[Alex_BCFC]

I have to say Robbo, you have got this absolutely spot on, I agree with this point 100%

More people see the light!

[SE23Red]

I've watched it a few times and still can't see how an outfield player can outjump a goalkeeper by such a distance when a goalkeeper can use his hands. Obviously Sodje was climbing on Heywood's back but Phillips should still have got there.

You've answered your own question.

Having watched it several times what would you say was the height off of the ground that Sodje made contact with the ball? Having seen it myself I'd say it's about 9ft. Phillips is never going to get that high without climbing on Heywood's other shoulder. It's a foul. No one saw it at the time, no one appealed. But if we are going to have a forensic investigation on how our keeper didn't make the cross let's at least recognise that the guy isn't allowed to get that high by climbing on the defender, and the large part that played in him getting a height advantage.

[Guest Frank]

You've answered your own question.

Having watched it several times what would you say was the height off of the ground that Sodje made contact with the ball? Having seen it myself I'd say it's about 9ft. Phillips is never going to get that high without climbing on Heywood's other shoulder. It's a foul. No one saw it at the time, no one appealed. But if we are going to have a forensic investigation on how our keeper didn't make the cross let's at least recognise that the guy isn't allowed to get that high by climbing on the defender, and the large part that played in him getting a height advantage.

Fair point, but a man of similar height with his hands above his head should at least be able to reach the same height. He wasn't commanding enough on that occasion in my opinion.

[Alex_BCFC]

Fair point, but a man of similar height with his hands above his head should at least be able to reach the same height. He wasn't commanding enough on that occasion in my opinion.

The bottom line is Phillips should have been straight out to catch it or shouted to Heywood to clear it.

[SE23Red]

Fair point, but a man of similar height with his hands above his head should at least be able to reach the same height. He wasn't commanding enough on that occasion in my opinion.

Not if he has nothing to climb on. If he can climb to the same height then yes being able to reach gives him the advantage.

If reaching is always better than climbing then why do we have ladders?

[andy g]

To be honest, now that we have a manager who seems to know what he's doing, i'm happy to let HIM choose the team !

[Guest Frank]

Not if he has nothing to climb on. If he can climb to the same height then yes being able to reach gives him the advantage.

If reaching is always better than climbing then why do we have ladders?

Phillips can easily jump and reach above the height of the bar with his hands. Sodje is not at the height of the bar when he makes contact with the ball, so Phillips shouldn't have been outjumped.

It all boils down to him not being commanding enough on that occasion. We were caught out by a quick freekick and Phillips didn't take command of a situation where I feel he should have done.

[SE23Red]

Phillips can easily jump and reach above the height of the bar with his hands. Sodje is not at the height of the bar when he makes contact with the ball, so Phillips shouldn't have been outjumped.

It all boils down to him not being commanding enough on that occasion. We were caught out by a quick freekick and Phillips didn't take command of a situation where I feel he should have done.

He's well above the height of the bar! Don't be confused by being able to see the bar on film - the height of the camera in the stand will give an optical illusion if you use things behind the players as a reference point for height. Also note that Phillips can't get to the ball by jumping straight upwards - he has to reach across Heywood.

If you look at the players Heywood is off of the ground, Sodje has his hand on Haywood's shoulder and has a straight arm. Alternatively look at how far Sodje's feet are off of the ground. Either way, I can't see how Sodje's head can be lower than the bar.

Anyway I've better things to be doing than calculating exactly how high his head is (although given the camera's height above pitch level and position in the stand I could!). To me it is clear enough that in this instance Phillips should be given the benefit of the doubt. Why is it that you want to discredit our players so much that you will work hard to blame them for things when it is far from clear that they made a mistake?

As soon as Sodje gets such a leap on Heywood any goalkeeper is going to be struggling.

[Guest Frank]

He's well above the height of the bar! Don't be confused by being able to see the bar on film - the height of the camera in the stand will give an optical illusion if you use things behind the players as a reference point for height. Also note that Phillips can't get to the ball by jumping straight upwards - he has to reach across Heywood.

If you look at the players Heywood is off of the ground, Sodje has his hand on Haywood's shoulder and has a straight arm. Alternatively look at how far Sodje's feet are off of the ground. Either way, I can't see how Sodje's head can be lower than the bar.

Anyway I've better things to be doing than calculating exactly how high his head is (although given the camera's height above pitch level and position in the stand I could!). To me it is clear enough that in this instance Phillips should be given the benefit of the doubt. Why is it that you want to discredit our players so much that you will work hard to blame them for things when it is far from clear that they made a mistake?

As soon as Sodje gets such a leap on Heywood any goalkeeper is going to be struggling.

He isn't well above the height of the bar at all, but anyway.

My point is, Phillips got caught under the ball and didn't claim the ball as I would have liked him to do in that situation. Call it 'discrediting him' if it makes you feel better, but all I'm saying is he could have done better in that particular situation if he'd dominated his 6 yard box better.

Yes Sodje gained an unfair advantage by climbing but Phillips could still have done more to make it difficult for Sodje in my opinion.

I rate Phillips and always have done, and he does more than enough in a season to justify his starting place, but when a goal is scored there are generally things to be looked at as to why it happened. For that goal it was firstly the team switching off for the quick freekick and secondly Phillips failing to command his 6 yard box when a cross came into it. There is also the reason the freekick was conceded to consider but if I do that you'll doubtless say I'm discrediting someone else, so I won't bother.

If you are going to label people pointing out their reasons for why a goal was conceded as discrediting them, I guess you think Gary Johnson discredited the whole team when he said they switched off for part of the game. I presume you'd also say he's discrediting them when he points out to them where he feels they got it wrong for the goals.

Ah well, it looked like a potentially good debate for a while. Never mind. Same old same old.

[SE23Red]

He isn't well above the height of the bar at all, but anyway.

As I've explained how I've concluded that he was above the height of the bar would you like to explain how you think he wasn't?

but when a goal is scored there are generally things to be looked at as to why it happened. For that goal it was firstly the team switching off for the quick freekick

Yes

and secondly Phillips failing to command his 6 yard box when a cross came into it.

No - see above

There is also the reason the freekick was conceded to consider but if I do that you'll doubtless say I'm discrediting someone else, so I won't bother.

Not at all - Brooker made a pretty poor challenge tracking back. I've no problem at all with people stating facts.

Ah well, it looked like a potentially good debate for a while. Never mind. Same old same old.

What went wrong with it? Apart from being a little dull for people who couldn't care less how high he jumped?

Edit: Grammar.

[Guest Frank]

As I've explained how I've concluded that he is above the height of the bar would you like to explain how you think he isn't?

Yes

No - see above

Not at all - Brooker made a pretty poor challenge tracking back. I've no problem at all with people stating facts.

What went wrong with it? Apart from being a little dull for people who couldn't care less how high he jumped?

Ok, I conclude he didn't jump "well above" the height of the bar on account of the fact that he didn't. I'll draw a diagram with a bar and a man's head not well above it if it helps, but I think the description is enough. I've frozen the highlights at the point of contact and he is level with the bar at best. Either way it's at a height Phillips can reach if his positioning is right and he attacks the ball.

A poor challenge? Why do you see fit to discredit him when he was doing his best?

It went wrong when you started saying I was discrediting someone when all I was doing was saying he could have done more to command his 6 yard box. He got caught under the ball and didn't recover to attack the ball as he should have done.

If I wanted to discredit him I'd add to the 'Drop Phillips' thread. But I haven't as I don't think he should be dropped. Again, for hopefully the last time - for that goal Phillips could have done more to command his 6 yard area and make it difficult for Sodje.

[SE23Red]

Ok, I conclude he didn't jump "well above" the height of the bar on account of the fact that he didn't. I'll draw a diagram with a bar and a man's head not well above it if it helps, but I think the description is enough. I've frozen the highlights at the point of contact and he is level with the bar at best. Either way it's at a height Phillips can reach if his positioning is right and he attacks the ball.

But have you taken into account the fact that the camera filming that clip is at a height that will not help you make a judgement by looking at the head and looking at the bar. They are five yards infront of the goal line.

Here is another way of looking at it. Looking at the same frozen clip of the moment he heads the ball Sodje's arse/waist is level with Heywood's shoulder, his feet level with Heywood's arse. Knowing both players are 1.90m+ and assuming Sodje has average torso to height ratio this puts the height of his head at about 2.6m. The height of a crossbar is 2.45m.

If I wanted to discredit him I'd add to the 'Drop Phillips' thread. But I haven't as I don't think he should be dropped. Again, for hopefully the last time - for that goal Phillips could have done more to command his 6 yard area and make it difficult for Sodje.

Your opinion of that is clear. However no matter how many times I point out that the ball is headed at a height that he could not be expected to reach you keep coming back to it. To me knowing this puts Phillips beyond blame. However you keep saying he should be 'more commanding'. That is why I used the word discredit.

If Phillips and Sodje had jumped together and Phillips came out second best then I would agree with you. My point is (and always has been) that the unfair advantage that Sodje gained was significant enough that Phillips had no chance.

[Guest Frank]

But have you taken into account the fact that the camera filming that clip is at a height that will not help you make a judgement by looking at the head and looking at the bar. They are five yards infront of the goal line.

Here is another way of looking at it. Looking at the same frozen clip of the moment he heads the ball Sodje's arse/waist is level with Heywood's shoulder, his feet level with Heywood's arse. Knowing both players are 1.90m+ and assuming Sodje has average torso to height ratio this puts the height of his head at about 2.6m. The height of a crossbar is 2.45m.

Your opinion of that is clear. However no matter how many times I point out that the ball is headed at a height that he could not be expected to reach you keep coming back to it. To me knowing this puts Phillips beyond blame. However you keep saying he should be 'more commanding'. That is why I used the word discredit.

If Phillips and Sodje had jumped together and Phillips came out second best then I would agree with you. My point is (and always has been) that the unfair advantage that Sodje gained was significant enough that Phillips had no chance.

I have looked at it again and Sodje's arse is at Heywood's armpit height and Heywood is bent over at the knees and at the waist because of the jump over him by Sodje. Sodje is not "well above" the height of the crossbar as you stated he was.

The ball is headed at a height that a goalkeeper could reach if he hadn't got under the ball and had attacked it from a better angle. He had no chance because he was under the ball and not attacking it. Looking at it again, Phillips doesn't actually appear to get off the ground.

I am not discrediting him, I am pointing out where I believe he could have done more to prevent that particular goal.

[Bristol Boy]

Stick with the team that done so well at Brentford. Why change a winning team?

Heywoods injured so we can't do that and read the rest of the replies & posting to see why some would change the team.

But have you taken into account the fact that the camera filming that clip is at a height that will not help you make a judgement by looking at the head and looking at the bar. They are five yards infront of the goal line.

Here is another way of looking at it. Looking at the same frozen clip of the moment he heads the ball Sodje's arse/waist is level with Heywood's shoulder, his feet level with Heywood's arse. Knowing both players are 1.90m+ and assuming Sodje has average torso to height ratio this puts the height of his head at about 2.6m. The height of a crossbar is 2.45m.

Your opinion of that is clear. However no matter how many times I point out that the ball is headed at a height that he could not be expected to reach you keep coming back to it. To me knowing this puts Phillips beyond blame. However you keep saying he should be 'more commanding'. That is why I used the word discredit.

If Phillips and Sodje had jumped together and Phillips came out second best then I would agree with you. My point is (and always has been) that the unfair advantage that Sodje gained was significant enough that Phillips had no chance.

The overall point, without getting into ratios, is that Phillips is crap on crosses and had been for a while.He's a fine shots stopper and makes good reaction saves but, in this division, you need a GK that commands his area and he doesn't.