RedUn Posted October 6, 2005 Report Share Posted October 6, 2005 Bob Wilson tells it like it is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaz897 Posted October 6, 2005 Report Share Posted October 6, 2005 Whats that got to do with crosses? The main reason people moan about him? Its the same for all keepers.Oh and I'm not a Phillips basher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evocare Posted October 6, 2005 Report Share Posted October 6, 2005 Bob Wilson tells it like it isDo we use the same ball in this league aswell?If so it magnifies Phillips shot stopping ability, i guess thats what you mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted October 6, 2005 Report Share Posted October 6, 2005 The next time Phillips concedes a goal maybe he should yell at the ball and not his defenders...after he has to put the blame somewhere... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex_BCFC Posted October 6, 2005 Report Share Posted October 6, 2005 The next time Phillips concedes a goal maybe he should yell at the ball and not his defenders...after he has to put the blame somewhere...Genius. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedUn Posted October 6, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2005 Whats that got to do with crosses?Thank you for asking ... ... Bob Wilson has being saying for some years that the unpredicable trajectories of the modern footballs (whether in shooting or crossing) is changing the art of goalkeeping, placing less emphasis on the old-fashioned idea of commanding the area and more on speed of reaction. The article I linked to earlier is simply the latest in a long line of consistent thought on his part.Keepers who base their game on trying to take every cross, particularly with the added hazard of getting through a ruck of players, will in the long run make far more rickets than those who leave the job of dealing with crosses to their defenders. If/when City find central defenders as consistently able to deal with crosses as our opponents have long seemed to have then we really will be laughing, to have that solidity in front of the fine shot-stopper we already have.Like all our players there is room for improvement in all aspects of Phillips' game but at this level (and the next one up) I'd say he was up with the best in the modern art of goalkeeping as defined by Bob Wilson; in coming to that conclusion, I am of course making the wild assumption that Bob Wilson might know a little bit more about the subject than some of Phillips' more regular detractors on this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaz897 Posted October 6, 2005 Report Share Posted October 6, 2005 Thank you for asking ... ... Bob Wilson has being saying for some years that the unpredicable trajectories of the modern footballs (whether in shooting or crossing) is changing the art of goalkeeping, placing less emphasis on the old-fashioned idea of commanding the area and more on speed of reaction. The article I linked to earlier is simply the latest in a long line of consistent thought on his part.Keepers who base their game on trying to take every cross, particularly with the added hazard of getting through a ruck of players, will in the long run make far more rickets than those who leave the job of dealing with crosses to their defenders. If/when City find central defenders as consistently able to deal with crosses as our opponents have long seemed to have then we really will be laughing, to have that solidity in front of the fine shot-stopper we already have.Like all our players there is room for improvement in all aspects of Phillips' game but at this level (and the next one up) I'd say he was up with the best in the modern art of goalkeeping as defined by Bob Wilson; in coming to that conclusion, I am of course making the wild assumption that Bob Wilson might know a little bit more about the subject than some of Phillips' more regular detractors on this forum.Good post and well presented. I even tend to agree with you. Although sometimes even Phillips does tend to leave balls that come within 6 yards of his goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted October 6, 2005 Report Share Posted October 6, 2005 Thank you for asking ... ... Bob Wilson has being saying for some years that the unpredicable trajectories of the modern footballs (whether in shooting or crossing) is changing the art of goalkeeping, placing less emphasis on the old-fashioned idea of commanding the area and more on speed of reaction. The article I linked to earlier is simply the latest in a long line of consistent thought on his part.Wilson should ask the question - who was the best goalkeeper to play in the Premiership? Peter Scmheical( I could never spell it!) And what did he do better than all the others? Command his box and boss his defence.Wilson is talking out his rear imoKeepers who base their game on trying to take every cross, particularly with the added hazard of getting through a ruck of players, will in the long run make far more rickets than those who leave the job of dealing with crosses to their defenders. If/when City find central defenders as consistently able to deal with crosses as our opponents have long seemed to have then we really will be laughing, to have that solidity in front of the fine shot-stopper we already have.Nonsense! For time immemorial 'keepers have been hampered by defenders and strikers.The good keepers know when to come and when to stay and thier defenders learn to know when that will be.Consistancy is the key. The goalie has a huge height advantage in being able to use his hands which good 'keepers use to maximum effect.The goalkeeper can catch and hold the ball thereby "killing" the attack whereas defenders can only head or kick it on and that can cause problems as we saw last saturday.Phillips not coming for the ball cost City the game.Like all our players there is room for improvement in all aspects of Phillips' game but at this level (and the next one up) I'd say he was up with the best in the modern art of goalkeeping as defined by Bob Wilson; in coming to that conclusion, I am of course making the wild assumption that Bob Wilson might know a little bit more about the subject than some of Phillips' more regular detractors on this forum. Wilson was very good 'keeper in his day - just like many others but that doesn't make him an expert or qualified to comment on todays game.The art of goalkeeping carries the same principles now as when he played. Aglity, positional sense and being decisive and reliable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Reynolds Posted October 6, 2005 Report Share Posted October 6, 2005 The next time Phillips concedes a goal maybe he should yell at the ball and not his defenders...after he has to put the blame somewhere...God you're a berk, you really are.The way you think you're some sort of authority on Bristol City really gets on my nerves. I thought you supported Arsenal as well?One minute you've got your head so far up Brian Tinnion's backside that he has to brush your teeth for you, and you have a go at anybody who criticises anything to do with Bristol City, the next you're on some personal vendetta against our goalkeeper.Wilson was very good 'keeper in his day - just like many others but that doesn't make him an expert or qualified to comment on todays game.The art of goalkeeping carries the same principles now as when he played. Aglity, positional sense and being decisive and reliable.But your vast experience within the game qualifies you to, does it?Peter Schmeichel's (I always could spell it) best asset was the fact that he was one hell of a shot-stopper, with one on ones his speciality. The fact that he shouted at his defence and blamed them when he conceded a goal was quirky and got him publicity, but it wasn't his main asset. So you're talking out of your rear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted October 6, 2005 Report Share Posted October 6, 2005 God you're a berk, you really are.The way you think you're some sort of authority on Bristol City really gets on my nerves. I thought you supported Arsenal as well?One minute you've got your head so far up Brian Tinnion's backside that he has to brush your teeth for you, and you have a go at anybody who criticises anything to do with Bristol City, the next you're on some personal vendetta against our goalkeeper. I don't resort to personal insults if someone posts a different view to my own.Why don't you try to the same - its called manners... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Reynolds Posted October 6, 2005 Report Share Posted October 6, 2005 I don't resort to personal insults if someone posts a different view to my own.Why don't you try to the same - its called manners...OK then superfan.Anything else you want to educate me on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Ian M Posted October 6, 2005 Admin Report Share Posted October 6, 2005 God you're a berk, you really are.The way you think you're some sort of authority on Bristol City really gets on my nerves. I thought you supported Arsenal as well?One minute you've got your head so far up Brian Tinnion's backside that he has to brush your teeth for you, and you have a go at anybody who criticises anything to do with Bristol City, the next you're on some personal vendetta against our goalkeeper.But your vast experience within the game qualifies you to, does it?Peter Schmeichel's (I always could spell it) best asset was the fact that he was one hell of a shot-stopper, with one on ones his speciality. The fact that he shouted at his defence and blamed them when he conceded a goal was quirky and got him publicity, but it wasn't his main asset. So you're talking out of your rear.I was always of the opinion that his best asset was his quick-mindedness in getting rid of the ball once in his possession. So many United goals were scored during his time there due to his quick release/thinking but again, "bossing his defence" would feature low on my list of his strengths.....he wasn't even THAT good on dealing with crosses! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaz897 Posted October 6, 2005 Report Share Posted October 6, 2005 I was always of the opinion that his best asset was his quick-mindedness in getting rid of the ball once in his possession. So many United goals were scored during his time there due to his quick release/thinking but again, "bossing his defence" would feature low on my list of his strengths.....he wasn't even THAT good on dealing with crosses!Comparing the 2 is pointless! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedUn Posted October 6, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2005 Wilson should ask the question - who was the best goalkeeper to play in the Premiership? Peter Scmheical( I could never spell it!) And what did he do better than all the others? Command his box and boss his defence.And how long ago was he at his peak? Well over five years and that's how far out of date your standpoint is for the reasons outlined by Bob Wilson. No doubt that's why your argument is presented in the past tense.Wilson is talking out his rear imo ... eccentric point of view for an Arsenal fan to hold of a man who won the double with them as both a player and coach!For time immemorial 'keepers have been hampered by defenders and strikers.The good keepers know when to come and when to stay and thier defenders learn to know when that will be.Consistancy is the key. The goalie has a huge height advantage in being able to use his hands which good 'keepers use to maximum effect.The goalkeeper can catch and hold the ball thereby "killing" the attack whereas defenders can only head or kick it on and that can cause problems as we saw last saturday.Phillips not coming for the ball cost City the game.More evidence of your ideas being out of date ... not a single word to acknowledge that the behaviour of the ball is now quite different to what it has been through your "time immemorial" ... what we are witnessing is a form of goalkeeping evolution where the species is having to adapt to changes in the game around them. Phillips has been coping much better than most at this level of the game and my take is that he has the character to continue to do so.Wilson was very good 'keeper in his day - just like many others but that doesn't make him an expert or qualified to comment on todays game.The art of goalkeeping carries the same principles now as when he played. Aglity, positional sense and being decisive and reliable.Faced with the choice of heeding the opinion of ...a) Bob Wilson - one of the most intelligent and articulate men ever to have played the game, widely respected as a goalkeeping coach to this day. orb) Some bloke on an internet forum with a bee in his bonnet about a particular player.... I know where my sympathies lie! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest silkman Posted October 6, 2005 Report Share Posted October 6, 2005 Thank you for asking ... ... Bob Wilson has being saying for some years that the unpredicable trajectories of the modern footballs (whether in shooting or crossing) is changing the art of goalkeeping, placing less emphasis on the old-fashioned idea of commanding the area and more on speed of reaction. The article I linked to earlier is simply the latest in a long line of consistent thought on his part.Keepers who base their game on trying to take every cross, particularly with the added hazard of getting through a ruck of players, will in the long run make far more rickets than those who leave the job of dealing with crosses to their defenders. If/when City find central defenders as consistently able to deal with crosses as our opponents have long seemed to have then we really will be laughing, to have that solidity in front of the fine shot-stopper we already have.Like all our players there is room for improvement in all aspects of Phillips' game but at this level (and the next one up) I'd say he was up with the best in the modern art of goalkeeping as defined by Bob Wilson; in coming to that conclusion, I am of course making the wild assumption that Bob Wilson might know a little bit more about the subject than some of Phillips' more regular detractors on this forum.If the trajectories are so unpredictable how does any striker ever manage to score? - or are all goals off crosses flukes. PS Don't tell Bridges or he may use it as an excuse for that header! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex_BCFC Posted October 6, 2005 Report Share Posted October 6, 2005 If the trajectories are so unpredictable how does any striker ever manage to score? - or are all goals off crosses flukes. PS Don't tell Bridges or he may use it as an excuse for that header!High crosses into the air aren't unpredictable, a bit like the one on Saturday. A simple catch for Greek lad in H'pool goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted October 6, 2005 Report Share Posted October 6, 2005 If the trajectories are so unpredictable how does any striker ever manage to score? - or are all goals off crosses flukes. Very good point! I'm suprised that I didn't think of it.... I suppose now we'll have Jimmy Greaves and Clive Allen saying that its the balls fault that no-one scores 40+ in a season anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob k Posted October 6, 2005 Report Share Posted October 6, 2005 High crosses into the air aren't unpredictable, a bit like the one on Saturday. A simple catch for Greek lad in H'pool goal.Has steve phillips ever, ummm, done your missus? You seem to absolutley hate the bloke!!! The same for robbored to!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex_BCFC Posted October 6, 2005 Report Share Posted October 6, 2005 Has steve phillips ever, ummm, done your missus? You seem to absolutley hate the bloke!!! The same for robbored to!!I've said before that I don't mind Phillips. He is an average keeper at this level, but it's frustrating to see him hardly ever come for crosses and cost us goals when he doesn't. I just want to see an all round keeper in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted October 6, 2005 Report Share Posted October 6, 2005 Has steve phillips ever, ummm, done your missus? You seem to absolutley hate the bloke!!! The same for robbored to!! I said before its not a personal matter.Just an opinion on what I've seen from Phillips. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex_BCFC Posted October 6, 2005 Report Share Posted October 6, 2005 I said before its not a personal matter.Just an opinion on what I've seen from Phillips.How many times do we have to tell people it's not some personal vendetta- just what we see! Phillips is a top bloke- city through and through and does his best. IMO his best is not quite good enough for to improve. No hate campaign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob k Posted October 6, 2005 Report Share Posted October 6, 2005 How many times do we have to tell people it's not some personal vendetta- just what we see! Phillips is a top bloke- city through and through and does his best. IMO his best is not quite good enough for to improve. No hate campaign.we have no money so we cant just go and get a new keeper in just like that, who is out there on a free or for around £75,000 that is better? I would say if Johnson has limited money to spend in the winter a new keeper will not be high on his shopping list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex_BCFC Posted October 6, 2005 Report Share Posted October 6, 2005 we have no money so we cant just go and get a new keeper in just like that, who is out there on a free or for around £75,000 that is better? I would say if Johnson has limited money to spend in the winter a new keeper will not be high on his shopping list.Obviously the left hand side is a higher priority as we have nothing there. But I woldn't be suprised if a keeper is not long after that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Reynolds Posted October 6, 2005 Report Share Posted October 6, 2005 Obviously the left hand side is a higher priority as we have nothing there. But I woldn't be suprised if a keeper is not long after that.I would. I think its one of our least urgent worries in terms of a replacement.Getting him someone to challenge him and put him under pressure will be high, but I don't think GJ will neccesarily be looking to replace Phillips unless that person warrants it.The left side, the right side too and getting what we already had to play to their potential would be higher on the list, I would have thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex_BCFC Posted October 6, 2005 Report Share Posted October 6, 2005 I would. I think its one of our least urgent worries in terms of a replacement.Getting him someone to challenge him and put him under pressure will be high, but I don't think GJ will neccesarily be looking to replace Phillips unless that person warrants it.The left side, the right side too and getting what we already had to play to their potential would be higher on the list, I would have thought.I think the right side is OK. We have Orr finally in his best position and I reckon if Carey gets his act together he can be good cover. Cotteril and Murray are good for thr right wing. It's just the left side that is really poor. I hope GJ sees that that an all round keeper would be better for the confidence of the defence and stopping the other team exploiting our main weakness- set pieces. He wil definately get in good competition at the very least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Reynolds Posted October 6, 2005 Report Share Posted October 6, 2005 I think the right side is OK. We have Orr finally in his best position and I reckon if Carey gets his act together he can be good cover. Cotteril and Murray are good for thr right wing. It's just the left side that is really poor. I hope GJ sees that that an all round keeper would be better for the confidence of the defence and stopping the other team exploiting our main weakness- set pieces. He wil definately get in good competition at the very least.I think the right is a bit dodgy too. Murray was good for the reserves on Wednesday, but whether he is up for it is debateable. I hope that Cotterill can improve his distribution too because with the ball at his feet the lad is brilliant. If not, he might be worth a shout just off of Brooker in place of Stewwy.Phillips needs competition, and the best we can get to challenge him. The best we can get though may not be good enough to benefit the team like Phillips does. No matter what your opinions on him, you have to see that he benefits the team, and is a matchwinning keeper rather than a steady eddie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex_BCFC Posted October 6, 2005 Report Share Posted October 6, 2005 I think the right is a bit dodgy too. Murray was good for the reserves on Wednesday, but whether he is up for it is debateable. I hope that Cotterill can improve his distribution too because with the ball at his feet the lad is brilliant. If not, he might be worth a shout just off of Brooker in place of Stewwy.Phillips needs competition, and the best we can get to challenge him. The best we can get though may not be good enough to benefit the team like Phillips does. No matter what your opinions on him, you have to see that he benefits the team, and is a matchwinning keeper rather than a steady eddie.I disagree that he benefits the team. On occasions he does save us games, like Port Vale. But most games he doesn't breed confidence into the defence. He doesn't come out for crosses generally, an area where we conceed a lot of goals. For me he is like Roberts, great ocassionally but the rest of the time causes us problems. His limitations mean he will never be better than ana average keeper in this league IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Reynolds Posted October 6, 2005 Report Share Posted October 6, 2005 I disagree that he benefits the team. On occasions he does save us games, like Port Vale. But most games he doesn't breed confidence into the defence. He doesn't come out for crosses generally, an area where we conceed a lot of goals. For me he is like Roberts, great ocassionally but the rest of the time causes us problems. His limitations mean he will never be better than ana average keeper in this league IMO.I'd argue that he is improving. I've actually heard him this season. Every other time I've seen him he couldn't even make a wall for a free-kick.I'd also say that he saves games far more often than he loses them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BeNeRz Posted October 6, 2005 Report Share Posted October 6, 2005 I'd argue that he is improving. I've actually heard him this season. Every other time I've seen him he couldn't even make a wall for a free-kick.I'd also say that he saves games far more often than he loses them.atyeo heard him screamin at his defense just give the guy a few games under GJ and take it from thereI actully really rate stevey and think hes taking alot of un needed stick on this forum! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex_BCFC Posted October 6, 2005 Report Share Posted October 6, 2005 atyeo heard him screamin at his defense just give the guy a few games under GJ and take it from thereI actully really rate stevey and think hes taking alot of un needed stick on this forum!It's not 'stick' it's constructive. I don't say- Phillips you are awful, why do you bother. He may have been shouting at his defence but he didn't come out enough on Saturday for me and was partly repsonsible for the goal amongst others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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