Admin Maesknoll Red Posted February 10, 2004 Admin Report Share Posted February 10, 2004 After tonights Leicester v Bolton match.......... Classic boob from Ian Walker, how did he roll that ball into his own net? Could he have been flummoxed by Bolton. The main talking point must be Boltons tactic of having two men either side of the goal, at least 3 or 4 yards 'offside', when taking a free kick. As the kick is taken the two players run back to 'onside' positions, causing much confusion for the Leicester defence. What with Steve Dunn's rambling description in this weeks Green Un and tonight's bizarre tactics, I don't think anyone will see a consistent interpretation of the rules, until FIFA issue a clarifying directive. The bumbling muppets we seem to get will surely be totally confused if this becomes commonplace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestburyRed Posted February 11, 2004 Report Share Posted February 11, 2004 The one that bugged me is where they were offside for the freekick (when it was played) but one of them managed to get back into an "onside" position when the ball came over, he then hit a shot and hit the post. No matter how you look at it, how was that not offside? He was offside when the ball was played but due to him running out then hitting it the officials accepted it. No one else touched the ball on the way over so technically the play hadn't reaced a "second phase" I'm looking forward to Saturday, its only a matter of time before a league club plants a player on the goalkeeper, as long as the ball is never directly played to him he is ok, and all the while completely blocking any back pass attempt (which many clubs use as a get out of jail card) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antman Posted February 11, 2004 Report Share Posted February 11, 2004 On Saturday, did you notice (amongst the many,many stupid calls) the one where LeeP was called off side in front of the williams when play was diagonally away from him on the other side in front of the Dolman Exactly the opposite of the new ruling!! The Bolton thing worries me, if not because more teams will try it, and more refs won't know how to deal with it. result: = deep frustration and yellow cards all round Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Ian M Posted February 11, 2004 Admin Report Share Posted February 11, 2004 On Saturday, did you notice (amongst the many,many stupid calls) the one where LeeP was called off side in front of the williams when play was diagonally away from him on the other side in front of the Dolman Exactly the opposite of the new ruling!! The Bolton thing worries me, if not because more teams will try it, and more refs won't know how to deal with it. result: = deep frustration and yellow cards all round How long before we see the hilariou###### situation of the ref stopping play so that his assistants can have another read through of the new "clarification" from FIFA after angry calls from both sets of players? *hilarious only if in a match not involving BCFC. Such incompetent officials officiating a City match would be frustrating not funny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lita For Congo Posted February 11, 2004 Report Share Posted February 11, 2004 HaHaHa On Saturday, did anyone catch the Southampton Highlights? Every time they had a Freekick about 40 yards out, about 5 or 6 of there players would stand on the keeper line and in the 6 yard box and the defenders didnt know how to react. Just as the kick was being taken though, the players would move back onside. Classic Strachan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sephjnr Posted February 11, 2004 Report Share Posted February 11, 2004 HaHaHa On Saturday, did anyone catch the Southampton Highlights? Every time they had a Freekick about 40 yards out, about 5 or 6 of there players would stand on the keeper line and in the 6 yard box and the defenders didnt know how to react. Just as the kick was being taken though, the players would move back onside. Classic Strachan. Far from being idiotic, that tactic actually makes sense when you think about it: Getting the defense confused about which players might be making an attempt on goal; and Confused Defense = goals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cityboy Posted February 11, 2004 Report Share Posted February 11, 2004 Far from being idiotic, that tactic actually makes sense when you think about it: Getting the defense confused about which players might be making an attempt on goal; and Confused Defense = goals But surely if the players stood 'offside' are confusing the defence then that is interfering with play, which should still see them given offside?? This could all become very confusing! Maybe FIFA should have left well alone, after all, if it's not broken don't fix it..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sephjnr Posted February 11, 2004 Report Share Posted February 11, 2004 But surely if the players stood 'offside' are confusing the defence then that is interfering with play, which should still see them given offside?? This could all become very confusing! Maybe FIFA should have left well alone, after all, if it's not broken don't fix it..... Naturally if the defence isn't up to tracking players regardless of their position then it reflects on their ability as defenders. On a related note, Isn't the "offside trap" all about the defence rushing forward to put Onside players Offside? Surely if the defence can do that then it's just right IMO for the attackers to do the same trick to get themselves on... If the defenders can rely on fluid, well timed movements on the fly then why not the attackers too? If a forward can confuse the whole back line and go on to score, then fair play to him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cityboy Posted February 11, 2004 Report Share Posted February 11, 2004 On a related note, Isn't the "offside trap" all about the defence rushing forward to put Onside players Offside? Surely if the defence can do that then it's just right IMO for the attackers to do the same trick to get themselves on... If the defenders can rely on fluid, well timed movements on the fly then why not the attackers too? But isn't that the whole point? Defenders have to push forwards before the ball is played to catch the sriker offside. Strikers have always been able to time their runs forwards as the balance to this, now it would seem that they can stand where they want even when the ball is played..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sephjnr Posted February 11, 2004 Report Share Posted February 11, 2004 But isn't that the whole point? Defenders have to push forwards before the ball is played to catch the sriker offside. Strikers have always been able to time their runs forwards as the balance to this, now it would seem that they can stand where they want even when the ball is played..... (that's really all I can say. Any linkage to the "official" text, anyone?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
England Posted February 11, 2004 Report Share Posted February 11, 2004 One of the few really classic quotes I think was attributed to Bill Shankly who was purported to have said " if he was not interfering with play he shouldn't be on the pitch" - apologies for possible misquote but I am sure the gist is correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spud55 Posted February 11, 2004 Report Share Posted February 11, 2004 Yea i know what you mean England. There are occasions when a player is not interfering with play, ie on the other side of the pitch. But the thing from FIFA makes no sense at all, i'm sorry but when a free kick is put in EVERY single attacker in the box is interfering with play, because the defence will know where they are and have at least part of their mind on them. The RvN goal was a perfect example, he was behind the entire southampton defence, they knew full well he was there and at least some of them would have been thinking about how to defend against him, as soon as a player affects the mindset of another player in close proximity then they are interfering with play. AT least two of the southampton players looked at RvN before the kick came in, so therefore they knew he was there and had to tr to defend against him getting the ball and thus he was offside. FIFA need to clarify the rules for offside, properly, you either have it one of two ways, 1) if you are offside you are offside full stop, wheather you are interfering with play or not, or 2) you keep it as it was if a player is deemed to be interfering with play he is offside, i.e is he anywhere near the goal, no matter if he is not blocking the keepers view, if they are near the goal they are interfering with play even if the ball goes to them or not as the defence have to defend against them. There has to be some discression given to officials to weigh up the different cases, as there will be some cases where it may not apply. You either make it completely ridgid or keep it as it was, the new directive has done neither. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Port Said Red Posted February 12, 2004 Report Share Posted February 12, 2004 The RvN goal was a perfect example, he was behind the entire southampton defence, they knew full well he was there and at least some of them would have been thinking about how to defend against him, as soon as a player affects the mindset of another player in close proximity then they are interfering with play. AT least two of the southampton players looked at RvN before the kick came in, so therefore they knew he was there and had to tr to defend against him getting the ball and thus he was offside. The Bolton one was worse, although it didn't result in a goal it showed that the refs and Assistants can get confused. The guy was offside when the kick was taken ran onside, then ran back to meet the cross and volleyed it against the post! No "second phase" there and no offside given, they obviously just lost track of him in the crowd of players. What worries me is that this is the sort of loophole that people like FRY and Go*LD are likely to try and exploit, I hope that the coaches are working on counter tactics this week......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheshire_red Posted February 12, 2004 Report Share Posted February 12, 2004 I've always maintained that Lee Peacock has been well ahead of his time for years. A modern day Martin Peters, ghosting in with late runs, however, Lee has always done it from off side positions. Now FIFA have been watching Lee for years and realised that to ensure that a player of his class, talent and football brain should be given every opportunity to show this to his adoring public. In all seriousness the Law is an ass. We should play to it as much as possible but also understand when one or more of the Linesmen on duty are not aware of it and play to that, the differnence between a thinking footballer and a fool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Ian M Posted February 12, 2004 Admin Report Share Posted February 12, 2004 What worries me is that this is the sort of loophole that people like FRY and Go*LD are likely to try and exploit, I hope that the coaches are working on counter tactics this week......... I'm probably being naive but watching the Bolton game on Tuesday I just kept on thinking to myself "why are the Leicester defenders bothering to sit back?" If NONE of the Leicester defenders defended any further back than the defensive wall when the free kick was played, the players on the goal-line would have further to run back, the players not offside would have to run as fast as the ball was travelling prettu much and the result should be either a safely gathered ball for the goalie (Ian Walker ) or the Bolton attackers actually being caught offside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Port Said Red Posted February 12, 2004 Report Share Posted February 12, 2004 I'm probably being naive but watching the Bolton game on Tuesday I just kept on thinking to myself "why are the Leicester defenders bothering to sit back?" If NONE of the Leicester defenders defended any further back than the defensive wall when the free kick was played, the players on the goal-line would have further to run back, the players not offside would have to run as fast as the ball was travelling prettu much and the result should be either a safely gathered ball for the goalie (Ian Walker ) or the Bolton attackers actually being caught offside. Makes sense to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheshire_red Posted February 12, 2004 Report Share Posted February 12, 2004 A whole, whole lotta sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Ian M Posted February 12, 2004 Admin Report Share Posted February 12, 2004 Makes sense to me. Ah, that'll be why it won't work then, thanks for pointing this out to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cityboy Posted February 12, 2004 Report Share Posted February 12, 2004 The thing that really worries me about all this is that we were rubbish at defending set pieces even before the ruling change......I dread to think what it's going to do to our defensive record now...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newboy Posted February 12, 2004 Report Share Posted February 12, 2004 Well with all the other team's defences now confused at set pieces, we've now potentially got a situation where everyone's down to our level! [from set pieces only, before half the board gets irate....] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Boy Posted February 12, 2004 Report Share Posted February 12, 2004 After tonights Leicester v Bolton match.......... Classic boob from Ian Walker, how did he roll that ball into his own net? Could he have been flummoxed by Bolton. The main talking point must be Boltons tactic of having two men either side of the goal, at least 3 or 4 yards 'offside', when taking a free kick. As the kick is taken the two players run back to 'onside' positions, causing much confusion for the Leicester defence. What with Steve Dunn's rambling description in this weeks Green Un and tonight's bizarre tactics, I don't think anyone will see a consistent interpretation of the rules, until FIFA issue a clarifying directive. The bumbling muppets we seem to get will surely be totally confused if this becomes commonplace. Most of the problems STARTED with a clarifying directive!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Maesknoll Red Posted February 12, 2004 Author Admin Report Share Posted February 12, 2004 Most of the problems STARTED with a clarifying directive!! I didn't make it too clear did I ? By clarifying directive, I really meant a retraction and reverting to, either onside or offside - if there is no grey area then its just down to incompetence by the linesmen when they get it wrong, not incompetence and confusion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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