Vocal Bristol City Fans

[mozo]

Reality Check: The Bristol City support were largely outsung by our local rivals, League 2's Swindon Town.

We can blame accoustics and the usage of the East End, but one crucial underlying factor is the way in which vocal fans in Ashton Gate are so sporadically dispersed that it is impossible for one single group to create enough noise to give the roof a nudge, let alone raise it.

We need a twelfth man at Ashton Gate! The G-block is the best we have, but is still far too small a congregation.

Of course, some fans like to simply observe the football in relative calm and there's nothing wrong with that. But having vocal fans dotted about the stadium does nobody any good.

I asked Steve Lansdown if he agreed that if the vocal support congregated in one place, the atmosphere would improve. He replied that it was a myth. What do you think? I say we prove his theory wrong.

We should, in my opinion, do our best to find an area of the ground where the vocal fans agree to converge and to reclaim as our own. Maybe then the atmosphere will return to Ashton Gate. Maybe we could prove to the board that with our own area we can effect the team, we might have a stronger argument for the return of the East end.

This is a vital time. Early bird season tickets are still available. People are moving from certain areas of the Williams. Many fans are deliberating where to sit next season. Pay-on-the-dayers could then easily be persuaded to join the revellers.

Am I dreaming? Easy to organise or impossible? Where should City fans congregate?

Anyone have any comments/enthusiasm/criticism/non-giraffe-related gubbins?

[Dan C]

We can congregate in Dolman D block and pay huge prices in tehre, Then we can expand to the outer blocks in the dolman. Thus creating a very vocal atmosphere in a big stand.

Time for me to stop dreaming and wake up now me thinks. What does dear old trev think of this idea?

[The Fat Controller]

I think the problem is that people become almost sentimental about their seat.

I sing my heart out every game to the point of looking (and sounding) like an idiot, but will remain doing so from my current seat in the Atyeo.

I understand your point though, although i can't see a large proportion of people moving just to sit where other people are singing.

[The Man In Black]

If you start singing you're likely to get a camera pointed in your face.

They're bad enough with G block, imagine what they'd be like if there were more congregated.

Then of course you have to deal with the 'regulars' "who have had their seat for years" complaining because this rowdy bunch have just moved in. How dare they attempt to sing at a football match?

All of the above would happen, trust me.

[Wurzel City]

Like safe standing or the return of City's traditional end to it's supporters this will not happen or more importantly will not be tolerated by Steve Lansdwon and his minions.You can buy a shirt, sit down listen to the thump thump of the officail supporters band but start supporting your club like we do on the road at places like Vale & Oldham and it's time for the intimidation to begin.Bristol City fc does not want part of it's support unless it fits in with their view of what a modern seated & virtually mute fan is.

[STFC_awaitsabuse]

Have to admit I'm confused why you don't use the Ateyo to congregate, behind the goal being the tradition if you like. At least while they won't let you have the end away fans currently use. Being seperated doesn't help, and if Lansdown has indeed suggested congregating making more noise is a myth then I reckon he may not have ever been to one of your away games. Every football fan knows you make more noise away when you have a bit more opportunity to group together and have slightly less OTT stewarding. So the same rules should apply at home as well, one end or side where everyone mixes ensures more people join in because you become a bit more annonymous. people feel a bit odd when npbpdy around them joins in, so it puts them off.

[RED4LIFE]

Why not the enclosure at the front of the Dolman? I know its supposed to be the 'family' enclosure but wouldnt we be one big singing family?

I don't know how many regulars normally sit there, but if there was room down there (as there is at most games), it would be easy for the fans who do want to sing and cheer the team on (which should be most of us), to move to the front of the stand and do just that. The stewards wouldnt like it, but they couldnt really stop anyone for standing up by using the excuse 'the steps are too steep', because if you fell over, you would fall about 3 feet at the most!!

I don't think enough can be done to bring the atmosphere back to the Gate. I for one long for the days of the East end singing and chanting (and standing) all game.

Mozo, I back your plan 100% (if it was your plan, not the genius of Trev)

[twaters]

AGREE 100% we need to get a new singing area. Block G has been determined too steep for safe standing but atleast in the Atyeo we would have a better case for standing safely. How about blocks F and G as this is in the middle of those who like to sing in E and H.

Or maybe Atyeo block C, kinda central ish and far away enough from the drum but close enough to get the whole Atyeo standing and singing.

If i was mega rich i would hire 3000 hard nuts to come sit in the williams and surround the directors box and sing and stand the whole match. Then after i would buy the club and build a new stadium that included terraces of a modern era and hire Lawers to challenge the all seating stadium rules.

[cider army on tour]

Ateyo no due to the band, I'm not a big fan of the band and tend to think they ruin the atmosphere by drowning out songs, playing ones no one likes and playing them too fast. What is wrong with just having 1 or 2 drums? I think it has to be Dolman or Williams so the band can not be heard.

[MATT BCFC]

At Portsmouth who have arguably the best atmosphere in England have unreserved seating, maybe we should try that although I could see some people not liking that but I think it would benefit the atmosphere.

[southvillekiddy]

Reality Check: The Bristol City support were largely outsung by our local rivals, League 2's Swindon Town.

We can blame accoustics and the usage of the East End, but one crucial underlying factor is the way in which vocal fans in Ashton Gate are so sporadically dispersed that it is impossible for one single group to create enough noise to give the roof a nudge, let alone raise it.

We need a twelfth man at Ashton Gate! The G-block is the best we have, but is still far too small a congregation.

Of course, some fans like to simply observe the football in relative calm and there's nothing wrong with that. But having vocal fans dotted about the stadium does nobody any good.

I asked Steve Lansdown if he agreed that if the vocal support congregated in one place, the atmosphere would improve. He replied that it was a myth. What do you think? I say we prove his theory wrong.

We should, in my opinion, do our best to find an area of the ground where the vocal fans agree to converge and to reclaim as our own. Maybe then the atmosphere will return to Ashton Gate. Maybe we could prove to the board that with our own area we can effect the team, we might have a stronger argument for the return of the East end.

This is a vital time. Early bird season tickets are still available. People are moving from certain areas of the Williams. Many fans are deliberating where to sit next season. Pay-on-the-dayers could then easily be persuaded to join the revellers.

Am I dreaming? Easy to organise or impossible? Where should City fans congregate?

Anyone have any comments/enthusiasm/criticism/non-giraffe-related gubbins?

Dear mozo, you are so right my friend and there are lots of us who share your spot-on views.

I agree wholeheartedly about the gulf between home and away support. I feel embarassed at the placidity at Ashton Gate. If we asked the players if the away supprt had helped them win, I know what they would say.

The point is how do we organise?

I have written to the people who "organise" (ha ha) our stadium. They do not have the wits and imagination to see that concentrated vocal support will benefit our club. In fact they seem to equate singing and other forms of vocal support as trouble!

Therefore we have to do it.

How do we get together?

How can we agree a strategy and then, most important, all have the bottle to carry it out?

A suggestion :

can someone (I'm sorry I live in London) go to the ticket office at a quiet time and find out where there are the largest number of seats that are not taken as season ticket places. Then we could all buy places in that spot.

I have already applied for my season ticket but would willingly swop to such a place if I could be assured of being with 50, 100, 200 ............. ? other fans who want to support in the "traditional" way, ie. singing, shouting, encouraging, making a noise, and standing up to do it when the mood takes them.

Dear mozo please reply.

[mozo]

We can congregate in Dolman D block and pay huge prices in tehre, Then we can expand to the outer blocks in the dolman. Thus creating a very vocal atmosphere in a big stand.

Dolman D is a suggestion that we can consider.

I think the problem is that people become almost sentimental about their seat.

I understand your point though, although i can't see a large proportion of people moving just to sit where other people are singing.

I agree that people are reluctant to change, which is why we need this debate. A sound consensus could persuade the doubters.

If you start singing you're likely to get a camera pointed in your face.

They're bad enough with G block, imagine what they'd be like if there were more congregated.

Then of course you have to deal with the 'regulars' "who have had their seat for years" complaining because this rowdy bunch have just moved in. How dare they attempt to sing at a football match?

Interesting points. Let's not forget that the board have allowed we fans to choose where we want to sit. I'm advocating the congregation of vocal fans, not of a breach of Ashton Gate 'security' stipulations. But if the powers that be are going to pick on fans, it's better to have as large a backing as possible. As for annoying regulars, they're at a football match, singing and banter should be a given.

Like safe standing or the return of City's traditional end to it's supporters this will not happen or more importantly will not be tolerated by Steve Lansdwon and his minions.You can buy a shirt, sit down listen to the thump thump of the officail supporters band but start supporting your club like we do on the road at places like Vale & Oldham and it's time for the intimidation to begin.Bristol City fc does not want part of it's support unless it fits in with their view of what a modern seated & virtually mute fan is.

They can't stop us singing our hearts out. My problem with the current situation is that we're making it too hard for ourselves to make any noise at all. It's time to take the situation into our own hands. Don't get me wrong, I share the despondence that a few of you have expressed about the current regime, but how long are we just going to sulk and accept it?

Have to admit I'm confused why you don't use the Ateyo to congregate, behind the goal being the tradition if you like. At least while they won't let you have the end away fans currently use. Being seperated doesn't help, and if Lansdown has indeed suggested congregating making more noise is a myth then I reckon he may not have ever been to one of your away games. Every football fan knows you make more noise away when you have a bit more opportunity to group together and have slightly less OTT stewarding. So the same rules should apply at home as well, one end or side where everyone mixes ensures more people join in because you become a bit more annonymous. people feel a bit odd when npbpdy around them joins in, so it puts them off.

Mate, I really appreciate your view from the outside looking in, and I think people should consider your suggestion very seriously.

Why not the enclosure at the front of the Dolman? I know its supposed to be the 'family' enclosure but wouldnt we be one big singing family?

Family closure is another possibility.

AGREE 100% we need to get a new singing area. Block G has been determined too steep for safe standing but atleast in the Atyeo we would have a better case for standing safely. How about blocks F and G as this is in the middle of those who like to sing in E and H.

Or maybe Atyeo block C, kinda central ish and far away enough from the drum but close enough to get the whole Atyeo standing and singing.

Atyeo is another suggestion worth consideration.

So...

I appreciate your feedback guys. As I expected, there's been a mixture of a defeatest mentality (which isn't a criticism, I feel that way most of the time) and hope.

I really can't see the Williams stand being the answer, but we need to debate the potential location in great depth.

I really need to hear from more people on these matters. The Dolman G-blockers must have a view, as must the noisy Atyeo contingents.

I consider this a really important issue.

FIND YOUR VOICE

[mozo]

I agree wholeheartedly about the gulf between home and away support. I feel embarassed at the placidity at Ashton Gate. If we asked the players if the away supprt had helped them win, I know what they would say.

The point is how do we organise?

I have written to the people who "organise" (ha ha) our stadium. They do not have the wits and imagination to see that concentrated vocal support will benefit our club. In fact they seem to equate singing and other forms of vocal support as trouble!

Therefore we have to do it.

How do we get together?

How can we agree a strategy and then, most important, all have the bottle to carry it out?

A suggestion :

can someone (I'm sorry I live in London) go to the ticket office at a quiet time and find out where there are the largest number of seats that are not taken as season ticket places. Then we could all buy places in that spot.

I have already applied for my season ticket but would willingly swop to such a place if I could be assured of being with 50, 100, 200 ............. ? other fans who want to support in the "traditional" way, ie. singing, shouting, encouraging, making a noise, and standing up to do it when the mood takes them.

Dear mozo please reply.

SouthvilleKiddy, cheers for your input bud.

When you talk about strategy and bottle, I know where you're coming from. In fact, the only reason I started this thread is because I was saying it all in a PM, and in their wisdom, the recipient suggested that by posting on the forum I could canvass opinion.

This forum is an excellent device for 'spreading the word'. The subbers forum is also worth posting on. If we can form a contingency plan on here, we could use word of mouth to further the organization.

I'm no Che Guevara though, and if people don't seem arsed about having a crap atmosphere at nearly every single home game, what can I do about it?

Naturally, I'd be dreaming to think that we will have thousands of noisy fans congregating by next season, but we have a real chance now - and mean right now, whilst people are considering their options - to set a precedent that in future years can grow. Who knows, eventually, the board might feel that they have no choice but to house us in the East End...

I believe that midweek, 1000 season tickets had been sold, which means that there are still many thousands of fans yet to decide where to sit, and therer are huge spaces available.

I don't know where I'll be sitting next season, but hopefully SouthvilleKiddy, we'll both be sat in the same noisy congregation.

[Nogbad the Bad]

Why not the enclosure at the front of the Dolman? I know its supposed to be the 'family' enclosure but wouldnt we be one big singing family?

Not sure the lower Dolman is considered the Family Enclosure anymore, i think that was moved to the Atyeo (A Block) at the start of this season.

The Subbers came into the former Family Stand A Bock a couple of times earlier this season and were well received. When they got their songs going not only did the regulars in the area join in but also H Block Atyeo and A and B Blocks Dolman. So a determined singing group in this area can be a catalyst to already established groups nearby.

The problem though is the proximity of the Stewards who congregate between the Dolman and the Atyeo. Their usual permanent crowd scrutiny was even more intense than usual and the presence of a new group of fairly 'rowdy' fans was evidently a worry for them.

My wife (an occasional attender) couldn't believe the amount of Sewards these days and how they spent the whole time staring at the crowd. She found it off-putting to such an extent that it spoilt her enjoyment of the match, "what are they doing, i thought they were here to help people find their seats etc., not intimidate the fans."

The stewards will follow noisy fans whatever, my advice would still be Dolman A/ Lower Dolman H or better still to swamp the centre of the Atyeo - unfortunately if you make close proximity to the away fans and 'banter' your main goal by staying near the other end you will inevitably attract extra close attention from camera wielding police, and stewards.

[Joe]

i love sitting in g or f block and love singing and would absolutly love it if we got a large number of vocal supporters together, my personal feeling is that if it were to happen it should be in the dolman or the williams near the away supporters so that there can be some banter which usually spurs the fans on.

[RED4LIFE]

Not sure the lower Dolman is considered the Family Enclosure anymore, i think that was moved to the Atyeo (A Block) at the start of this season.

The Subbers came into the former Family Stand A Bock a couple of times earlier this season and were well received. When they got their songs going not only did the regulars in the area join in but also H Block Atyeo and A and B Blocks Dolman. So a determined singing group in this area can be a catalyst to already established groups nearby.

The problem though is the proximity of the Stewards who congregate between the Dolman and the Atyeo. Their usual permanent crowd scrutiny was even more intense than usual and the presence of a new group of fairly 'rowdy' fans was evidently a worry for them.

My wife (an occasional attender) couldn't believe the amount of Sewards these days and how they spent the whole time staring at the crowd. She found it off-putting to such an extent that it spoilt her enjoyment of the match, "what are they doing, i thought they were here to help people find their seats etc., not intimidate the fans."

The stewards will follow noisy fans whatever, my advice would still be Dolman A/ Lower Dolman H or better still to swamp the centre of the Atyeo - unfortunately if you make close proximity to the away fans and 'banter' your main goal by staying near the other end you will inevitably attract extra close attention from camera wielding police, and stewards.

Nogbad, I think you may have hit on something there mate. I'm referring to the point you made about Dolman A and B joining in when some 'noise' was made when the Subbers came to the front of the Dolman.

Didnt Dolman A and B used to house the 'boys', back in the 80's and early 90's? I was an 'Eastender' and all the noise from the Dolman was from A and B.

My point is, I have sat in the Dolman for most of the season and its generally been in block B.You do get sporadic singing from there in games, and I think this is down to the fact that a lot of the 'boys' from back then still sit there, but they have grown up (probably with a wife and kids), and might feel a little silly trying to recreate what it used to be like, without their old 'mates' about. I think these 2 blocks have a lot of potential to be loud, they just need a catalyst for it and the front of the Dolman could be that catalyst.

Just imagine most of that stand singing in unison. It would be crazy.

I think there are a lot of fans who wont read this forum will just get caught up in it all, and would join in.

[Dan C]

The problem with being near the away fans' is the stewards and police would be on to us due to being close to them. I think being as far as away as pos to them could stop them getting on at us. I say centre blocks of the ayteo(at the top). Mainly because the fans' in the Atyeo do want to sing but just need some encouragement.

I sit in the Atyeo every game I go to and there is always one fan on his who who stands up and tries to start singing on his own but no one joins in with who ever it is. The atyeo can create a good atmosphere but like I said they just need some encouragement.

[bristolmod]

Didnt Dolman A and B used to house the 'boys', back in the 80's and early 90's? I was an 'Eastender' and all the noise from the Dolman was from A and B.

There used to be a good atmosphere at the back of dolman a & b in the mid 90's from what i recall and i certainly spent two seasons at least there.

[mozo]

Nogbad, I think you may have hit on something there mate. I'm referring to the point you made about Dolman A and B joining in when some 'noise' was made when the Subbers came to the front of the Dolman.

Didnt Dolman A and B used to house the 'boys', back in the 80's and early 90's? I was an 'Eastender' and all the noise from the Dolman was from A and B.

There used to be a good atmosphere at the back of dolman a & b in the mid 90's from what i recall and i certainly spent two seasons at least there.

Dolman A & B is a good idea.

On the plus side, it's near the Atyeo corner, so if some stay therer, we'll have a corner of the ground making noise. That side of the ground is very good because when City attack it in the second halves, the fans can really effect the game with noise.

A negative is that it's as far from the away end as is possible. Mind you, it's not impossible to get near the away fans anyway!! Also we'd have to persuade some doubters to move across from G-block.

DOLMAN A & B ?

We need more opinions!

[robins72]

Dolman A & B is a good idea.

On the plus side, it's near the Atyeo corner, so if some stay therer, we'll have a corner of the ground making noise. That side of the ground is very good because when City attack it in the second halves, the fans can really effect the game with noise.

A negative is that it's as far from the away end as is possible. Mind you, it's not impossible to get near the away fans anyway!! Also we'd have to persuade some doubters to move across from G-block.

DOLMAN A & B ?

We need more opinions!

I tend to find at most grounds ive visited that the atmosphere is poo unless you have A) just scored and b) got a local derby or C) when you have got through to the play off final like we did 2 years ago. Other than that most grounds are the same unfortunately. THink all seater stadiums have killed alot of the atmosphere really to be honest.

[Nogbad the Bad]

I tend to find at most grounds ive visited that the atmosphere is poo unless you have A) just scored and b) got a local derby or C) when you have got through to the play off final like we did 2 years ago. Other than that most grounds are the same unfortunately. THink all seater stadiums have killed alot of the atmosphere really to be honest.

You've certainly got a point robins, but interestingly the "Dolman boys" of the 80's & 90's that RED4LIFE refers to above chose to sit down in an era when plenty of standing terracing wa available. They used to make a hell of a racket and i don't remember them attempting to stand for long periods.

I think that proves it can be done, both in that area and without overly breaking modern day safety rules, whatever we may think of them.

Of course the reason Dolman A&B became popular back then was to exchange banter with the away fans, especially the likes of Millwall, Wolves, Cardiff etc. in the Open End.

However alot of them were still there making noise when away support was neither large nor vociferous. The numbers noticably swelled when it was a big game, as did the atmosphere, but those who sat there every week just got in the habit of being noisy.

If proximity to the away fans is considered to be the catalyst for noise then Dolman A&B is maybe not the right place these days, but if fans just want to congregate somewhere to support City loudly and in numbers without excessive attention from 'authority' then it's definitely worth bearing in mind, especially as a number of singers go there already.

[mozo]

I tend to find at most grounds ive visited that the atmosphere is poo unless you have A) just scored and b) got a local derby or C) when you have got through to the play off final like we did 2 years ago. Other than that most grounds are the same unfortunately. THink all seater stadiums have killed alot of the atmosphere really to be honest.

Most grounds are poor, but then not many in our division draw five-figure crowds.

You only have to look at our away support to know that we have a large enough vocal following to vastly improve Ashton Gate. The fans are there, they just need to find their place and then find their voice.

If proximity to the away fans is considered to be the catalyst for noise then Dolman A&B is maybe not the right place these days, but if fans just want to congregate somewhere to support City loudly and in numbers without excessive attention from 'authority' then it's definitely worth bearing in mind, especially as a number of singers go there already.

Appreciate your input Nogbad, some valuable contributions.

Your point in the quote pin-points the best options right now.

[Guest yateady]

i know its been said, but the eastend has got to be the place for fans to congregate, i always sit in the grand stand, but two of the best games i have watched have been in the eastend, hereford utd semi final in the freight rover and liverpool in the fa cup, so that should be three as the flood lights went out, i can remember hugging a complete stranger when wayne allison scored. the atmoshere was electric, i can only dream of what it was like when we were in the old first division

[Wurzel City]

[mozo]

[bartolona]

Dolman A and B have been mentioned and it's worth pointint out that Dolman A is the only stand where smoking is allowed. It would make sense then if noisy smokers and those who don't mind smoking congregate there, and those who don't like smoking take to the adjacent B-block. I'm sure a lot of G-blockers smoke and will want to switch to the opposite side of the Dolman anyway.

It's looking like the Atyeo is becoming the most sanitised stand at Ashton Gate and perhaps not the place for revellers.

Alot of singers already in A & B and when a song is started up the majority do join in as do the Atyeo.As A block will be a smoking block next season it makes more sense.I f there is enough singing the away fans will here us,but more importantly so will the team.

[Wurzel City]

Alot of singers already in A & B and when a song is started up the majority do join in as do the Atyeo.As A block will be a smoking block next season it makes more sense.I f there is enough singing the away fans will here us,but more importantly so will the team.

I already sit in Dolman A and the majority do not join in full stop.It is going to take areal influxof outsiders to stir this lot up. Unclear though what the smoking block will do to the locals though.

[mozo]

I already sit in Dolman A and the majority do not join in full stop.It is going to take areal influxof outsiders to stir this lot up. Unclear though what the smoking block will do to then locals though.

Might be a clean slate for the Dolman A.

Otherwise Williams could be a good idea, although I never thought I'd say that.

[Sir Colby-Tit]

To be honest, I haven't considered changing from C block of the Dullmoan. I've had my seat for ten years and it's a great view. But the thought of a bit of an atmoshere & still being able to have a fag is starting to appeal. A block sounds good to me.

[Wurzel City]

Might be a clean slate for the Dolman A.

Otherwise Williams could be a good idea, although I never thought I'd say that.

I have this impression of people who smoke and those who do not care about smokers as being a lot more care free and fun loving than that other lot of beings although i can base this on absolutely nothing.So perhaps Dolman A will for the first time in years wake up however i doubt it so i favour a move to the Old East End corner of the Williams to check if the pidgeons still do their worst.