lotusman Posted January 2, 2007 Report Share Posted January 2, 2007 Akinbiyi's transfer illustrates so clearly our dilemna.He would have been a great impact acquistion yet has proven pedigree at the championship level.However,750k transfer fee and a 500k contract is very much typical of what we would be getting into securing talent of his standing.There in lies the dilemna,how speculative can S.L & G.J. be,get it right and secure promotion and the new budget in the championship can handle it,fail to land that promotion birth and you've got a financial burden & misfit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rednready Posted January 2, 2007 Report Share Posted January 2, 2007 Akinbiyi's transfer illustrates so clearly our dilemna.He would have been a great impact acquistion yet has proven pedigree at the championship level.However,750k transfer fee and a 500k contract is very much typical of what we would be getting into securing talent of his standing.There in lies the dilemna,how speculative can S.L & G.J. be,get it right and secure promotion and the new budget in the championship can handle it,fail to land that promotion birth and you've got a financial burden & misfit. An excellant question, and a likely "hot topic". GJ and SL have yet to demonstrate any Championship ideals. Will we be looking for squad players willing to accept less than 150k, will we be hoping to buy quality at 250k or less, will GJ be able to cope with stars and egos that go with the higher standard. Last week, 5 of the bottom 6 Championship teams were recently promoted. The 3 Championship teams recently relegated were recently promoted. Make no mistake, its a major step up. Leagues 1 & 2 are very similar compared to the leap to the Championship. I hear people saying look at Colchester, they are well managed, bought smart and are in a minority. Most of the top half of the Championship are quality clubs with pedigree. We belong there. To survive a possible promotion SL and GJ will have to anticipate major improvements in salaries, investments and attitude from themselves. Since SL took over, and likewise GJ, our record with high profile/salary players has been less than stellar. They need to improve their game plan, then if our club gets promoted, it may stay promoted. I do not see the point in scraping into a promotion so as to be back down again within 2 seasons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTFiGO!?! Posted January 2, 2007 Report Share Posted January 2, 2007 Most of the top half of the Championship are quality clubs with pedigree. We belong there..........Since SL took over, and likewise GJ, our record with high profile/salary players has been less than stellar. They need to improve their game plan, then if our club gets promoted, it may stay promoted. .............I do not see the point in scraping into a promotion so as to be back down again within 2 seasonsApart from track record and gut instint I'm not entirely sure why but I have very little faith in SL. I do find myself a little ashamed for my lack of support for the bloke, apart fron GJ's appointment he just doesn't seem to have a clue what he's doing - regarding the words ''pedegree'', ''quality'' and ''BCFC'' anyway... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topbuzz Posted January 2, 2007 Report Share Posted January 2, 2007 For me I think with Lansdown n I'm sure this is a naive way of looking at it He's just a businessman he has no love for the club or for football generally Just in it for the "long-term" money Something about the present set up just doesent feel right Maybe i was a little too lucky having fan friendly managers n board in the past like Wardy n Scott Davidson and I'm expecting too much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rednready Posted January 2, 2007 Report Share Posted January 2, 2007 Apart from track record and gut instint I'm not entirely sure why but I have very little faith in SL. I do find myself a little ashamed for my lack of support for the bloke, apart fron GJ's appointment he just doesn't seem to have a clue what he's doing - regarding the words ''pedegree'', ''quality'' and ''BCFC'' anyway... A good philosophy in life, is to say, would I buy a used car off of this man. Look at SL's profile and its bordering on a white collar bean counter. Perhaps if I heard him without having to see him.......????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 2, 2007 Report Share Posted January 2, 2007 As said elsewhere if he really is "going for it this season" money should not be a problem as the rewards are great.Half the Cotts money alone spent; would almost certainly guarantee success; the next few weeks will determine our season.Whilst understanding the need for caution that "bargain buy" aint always there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
citynut54 Posted January 2, 2007 Report Share Posted January 2, 2007 For me I think with Lansdown n I'm sure this is a naive way of looking at it He's just a businessman he has no love for the club or for football generally Just in it for the "long-term" money Something about the present set up just doesent feel right Maybe i was a little too lucky having fan friendly managers n board in the past like Wardy n Scott Davidson and I'm expecting too muchCrap !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTFiGO!?! Posted January 2, 2007 Report Share Posted January 2, 2007 Crap !!Crap !! to you too.....is the man now not entitled to his opinions...?Some elaboration wouldn't go a-miss either...The challange: convince me that all's rosey and geared towards what's best for BCFC currently... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimtastic Posted January 2, 2007 Report Share Posted January 2, 2007 For me I think with Lansdown n I'm sure this is a naive way of looking at it He's just a businessman he has no love for the club or for football generally Just in it for the "long-term" money Something about the present set up just doesent feel right Maybe i was a little too lucky having fan friendly managers n board in the past like Wardy n Scott Davidson and I'm expecting too much "long term money"? Are you seriously suggesting there's money to be made from football clubs!?!?Wardy and Scott Davidson.... Mmmm.... Was it £5m or £7m of debt that "era" left us in? If you really want a chairman who'll spend millions we don't have, you won't have a club to support for long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimtastic Posted January 2, 2007 Report Share Posted January 2, 2007 Crap !! to you too.....is the man now not entitled to his opinions...?Some elaboration wouldn't go a-miss either...The challange: convince me that all's rosey and geared towards what's best for BCFC currently...I don't think that's possible, to be honest. *Football* isn't rosy any more, but the blame for that lies at the door of $ky, not SL.I genuinely think SL is acting in the best interest of BCFC. However, what's currently in the best interest of BCFC isn't always necessarily in the best interests of fans. But that's a product of the environment in which football finds itself.And like all businesses, there are things they could do better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrs Court Red Posted January 2, 2007 Report Share Posted January 2, 2007 but the blame for that lies at the door of $ky, IWhy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimtastic Posted January 2, 2007 Report Share Posted January 2, 2007 Why?Because everything now boils down to money. Salaries and player payments have reached ridiculous levels and the club have to make unpopular decisions to recoup that cash. Expensive tickets, expensive merchandise, expensive food/drink, premium seating etc etcAnd after all that, we still lost a million quid last year It's not just a phenomenon in the lower leagues, even the Premier League clubs are seeing drops in ticket sales. Fans are becoming disillusioned across the board.I'd be interested to know what SL's detractors think that we're not getting from him as a chairman? He's propping the club up financially, making big strides in the commercial viability of the club and hasn't been ungenerous with transfer money. In addition, many people believe GJ is the best manager we've had for a while and we're high up in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topbuzz Posted January 2, 2007 Report Share Posted January 2, 2007 "long term money"? Are you seriously suggesting there's money to be made from football clubs!?!?Wardy and Scott Davidson.... Mmmm.... Was it £5m or £7m of debt that "era" left us in? If you really want a chairman who'll spend millions we don't have, you won't have a club to support for long.I could be wrong oh wise one but I thought Lansdown just loans us money its going back in his pocket with intrest 1 day isnt it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CotswoldRed Posted January 2, 2007 Report Share Posted January 2, 2007 For me I think with Lansdown n I'm sure this is a naive way of looking at it He's just a businessman he has no love for the club or for football generally Just in it for the "long-term" money Something about the present set up just doesent feel right Maybe i was a little too lucky having fan friendly managers n board in the past like Wardy n Scott Davidson and I'm expecting too muchSo not fair ....He is a businessman, but if he based his decision on that alone he would NEVER have entered the game in the first place. He could make far more money investing shrewdly elsewhere, easily.We should support him. he is turning this clubs fortunes around by making a very sound financial footing off the field. If we p*ss him off too much he may lose his love for this club as you put it.I belive we already have the players to get promoted with ease. Its down to GJ to get it right and Steve L has given him all the support he needs.... A managers job is not simply to buy great players but to create them from good ones. Come on GJ, its down to you mate ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swindlered Posted January 2, 2007 Report Share Posted January 2, 2007 I don't believe that Steve L can be classed as un fan friendly. He's always made himself approachable to fans and is prepared to meet with them face-to-face on key issues.There is always likely be conflict between trying to achieve short-term success and long-term financial stability. Splashing the cash may have the effect of gaining promotion but if it doesn't then it could set the club back another 3 - 5 years. Swansea spent heavily last season yet failed to go up whilst smaller clubs won automatic promotion. At this level I believe that a good manager is worth far more than a bucket load of cash. Lets hope that GJ proves this over the next five months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimtastic Posted January 2, 2007 Report Share Posted January 2, 2007 I could be wrong oh wise one but I thought Lansdown just loans us money its going back in his pocket with intrest 1 day isnt it?As opposed to investing it elsewhere with a lot bigger returns (which is what his company does)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topbuzz Posted January 2, 2007 Report Share Posted January 2, 2007 Fair enough i am probably a bit biased as not really enjoyin the match day experience like I used to The Steve L thing on here was something he shld have credit for Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimtastic Posted January 2, 2007 Report Share Posted January 2, 2007 If we p*ss him off too much he may lose his love for this club as you put it.And I think we'd be stuffed if that happened. It's not like we've got loads of investors coming out of the woodwork. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimtastic Posted January 2, 2007 Report Share Posted January 2, 2007 Fair enough i am probably a bit biased as not really enjoyin the match day experience like I used to The Steve L thing on here was something he shld have credit forI totally agree with you. I just resent the fact that SL seems to get the blame for everything just because he's made some unpopular decisions (east end being the obvious one). If he suddenly left, I think we'd very quickly realise how much he does for BCFC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topbuzz Posted January 2, 2007 Report Share Posted January 2, 2007 Something the Orient set up did make me think bout was if were gnna have corp. hospitality lets do it properly like orient had Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimtastic Posted January 2, 2007 Report Share Posted January 2, 2007 Something the Orient set up did make me think bout was if were gnna have corp. hospitality lets do it properly like orient hadI think that was the aim of the new stand. Corporate hospitality certainly seems to be where the money is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrs Court Red Posted January 2, 2007 Report Share Posted January 2, 2007 Because everything now boils down to money. Salaries and player payments have reached ridiculous levels and the club have to make unpopular decisions to recoup that cash. Expensive tickets, expensive merchandise, expensive food/drink, premium seating etc etcYou can not blame sky for this. The clubs set these prices, and the fans who buy overpriced tat are complicit. The Taylor report started this trend with the aim of changing the game, although I doubt that this result was forseen. Football clubs being run badly, and the huge increase in player wages is the fault of the clubs themselves, and in my opinion the fans. And after all that, we still lost a million quid last year It's not just a phenomenon in the lower leagues, even the Premier League clubs are seeing drops in ticket sales. Fans are becoming disillusioned across the board.It is Ironic that money may do huge harm to a phenomenon created with money. The Abarmovhich factor has taken some shine from the Premier league, and some of the plastic fans in the prem were always going to be the first to stop attending matches.I'd be interested to know what SL's detractors think that we're not getting from him as a chairman? He's propping the club up financiallyI wouldn't disagree, but lets not be ignorant of the facts here, the way the debt has been restructured will see him becoming owner of a football stadium, not a bad return., making big strides in the commercial viability of the club and hasn't been ungenerous with transfer money. In addition, many people believe GJ is the best manager we've had for a while and we're high up in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alby Posted January 2, 2007 Report Share Posted January 2, 2007 I could be wrong oh wise one but I thought Lansdown just loans us money its going back in his pocket with intrest 1 day isnt it?I may also be wrong but didn't SL refinance loans interest free last year sometime? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topbuzz Posted January 2, 2007 Report Share Posted January 2, 2007 Nick J is your man on all this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTFiGO!?! Posted January 2, 2007 Report Share Posted January 2, 2007 I don't believe that Steve L can be classed as un fan friendly. He's always made himself approachable to fans and is prepared to meet with them face-to-face on key issues.Not even a debate mate, 'affable Steve' I regard him as...very approachable....I don't think that's possible, to be honest. *Football* isn't rosy any more, but the blame for that lies at the door of $ky, not SL.I genuinely think SL is acting in the best interest of BCFC. However, what's currently in the best interest of BCFC isn't always necessarily in the best interests of fans. But that's a product of the environment in which football finds itself.And like all businesses, there are things they could do better.Credible retorts throughout Jimbob...Thing is..this Club has grossly underachieved ever since about December '97 imo - and a topic for debate I know. John Ward lacking fundemental drive, ambition and belief...Goater getting sold, Shaun Taylor getting injured and Scott Davidson being generally a little bit crackerjackery were all unfortunate twists of fate...Public enquiraries into exactly what, where, when and why this Club has so badly underachieved over the last nine years are not to be shunned, we inevitably find ourselves knock-knock knocking on SteveieL's door... his tenure thus far does have F-A-I-L-U-R-E written all over it...It's been mentioned on here before....the combination of SL's prudence and Scott Davidson's Dream would be ideal...but 'ideal' is the word... Anyway chief, never stop believing and I do think this GJ fella has some partial much required x-factor to him...though only time will tell..oh yeah, btw, the stand does need opening... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimtastic Posted January 2, 2007 Report Share Posted January 2, 2007 You can not blame sky for this. The clubs set these prices, and the fans who buy overpriced tat are complicit. The Taylor report started this trend with the aim of changing the game, although I doubt that this result was forseen. Football clubs being run badly, and the huge increase in player wages is the fault of the clubs themselves, and in my opinion the fans.I think Sky created the inflated market and the clubs have been forced to follow suit. Trouble is, if SL decided to sell all of our first team squad tomorrow and promote all of our youth academy to bring down running costs, folks would want his head on a spike. Look at all of the posts on here with people *expecting* SL to put his hand in his pocket to the tune of 500k+ during the transfer window.I wouldn't disagree, but lets not be ignorant of the facts here, the way the debt has been restructured will see him becoming owner of a football stadium, not a bad return.I don't think that's true, but to be fair, I don't think that SL's ever addressed it particularly well, so there's bound to be a degree of suspicion. My understanding is that the stadium is still held in a LTD company under the BCFC PLC umbrella.Don't see how it makes much difference to be honest. As majority shareholders, the board could presumably shut and sell the Gate tomorrow if they wanted to anyway... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topbuzz Posted January 2, 2007 Report Share Posted January 2, 2007 Definately a intrestin debate on this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimtastic Posted January 2, 2007 Report Share Posted January 2, 2007 Not even a debate mate, 'affable Steve' I regard him as...very approachable....Credible retorts throughout Jimbob...Thing is..this Club has grossly underachieved ever since about December '97 imo - and a topic for debate I know. John Ward lacking fundemental drive, ambition and belief...Goater getting sold, Shaun Taylor getting injured and Scott Davidson being generally a little bit crackerjackery were all unfortunate twists of fate...Public enquiraries into exactly what, where, when and why this Club has so badly underachieved over the last nine years are not to be shunned, we inevitably find ourselves knock-knock knocking on SteveieL's door... his tenure thus far does have F-A-I-L-U-R-E written all over it...It's been mentioned on here before....the combination of SL's prudence and Scott Davidson's Dream would be ideal...but 'ideal' is the word... Anyway chief, never stop believing and I do think this GJ fella has some partial much required x-factor to him...though only time will tell..oh yeah, btw, the stand does need opening...I don't know what it is, but if ever I end up in a debate on here, you're always around somewhere Likewise, you've always got something interesting to say - be good to get out for a beer pre-match at some point I think F-A-I-L-U-R-E is a bit harsh. U-N-D-E-R-A-C-H-I-E-V-I-N-G is probably a bit nearer the mark, but when was the last time you couldn't say that about BCFC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTFiGO!?! Posted January 2, 2007 Report Share Posted January 2, 2007 I don't know what it is, but if ever I end up in a debate on here, you're always around somewhere aye....it's what it's all about....''just get involved chief'' was advice that once stuck..Likewise, you've always got something interesting to say - be good to get out for a beer pre-match at some point Can't committ to any such err commitment just now... the thought's been well received though....I think F-A-I-L-U-R-E is a bit harsh. U-N-D-E-R-A-C-H-I-E-V-I-N-G is probably a bit nearer the mark, but when was the last time you couldn't say that about BCFC?I think you're just playing with words there cheif, I am though fully aware and as frustrated and irritated as any other City fan of the curse once set upon us.....my username wasn't nominated upon me accidentally... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antman Posted January 2, 2007 Report Share Posted January 2, 2007 I totally agree with you. I just resent the fact that SL seems to get the blame for everything just because he's made some unpopular decisions (east end being the obvious one). If he suddenly left, I think we'd very quickly realise how much he does for BCFC.My gripe with Lansdown is that it's not malicious management, but downright useless management thats hurting our club.I will not forget and we shouldn't ever forget the 'judge me on Tinnion' comment. An appointment SO wrong it knocked the stuffing from the team and has taken us till now to recover our ground.The Marcus Stewart affair was an interesting one, as I got the feeling SL drove the deal as a great bit of PR, only to see it all unravel when the manager he brought in to sort out the club just couldn't work with him - perhaps unfortunate, definately badly managed, over debated!!The issues over the redevelopment and the premier seating are born out of the commercial departments desire to make more money for BCFC, great, but again a debacle. and Sextone's reward? a position on the board! - are we rewarding ineptitude? and while we're on the board, what a bunch! where's the drive, the ideas the PASSION!??The idea behind staging concerts was to bring in money to the club, the idea behind splitting the holding company was to protect the footballing side. The result? where's the income from these gigs? and why are the accounts for the holding company being stifled under company law loopholes? even when the footballing side of things is still bleeding money at the same rate as before!We have year on year comments about cost cutting and making much needed savings on players wages yet we STILL see a continuing massive loss. (only assuaged by selling our young stars) so how is that not SL's fault?Our manager now has shaped a team of honest hard working players - who seem to lack the guile and flair (interested to see Johnson asking for flair!!) to really progress us. If SL is hanging back to await promotion before investing, that might backfire like it did last time. we need to have a strong team who can burn up this league and go on to stay up WHILST being gently boosted by key additions representative of the level we find ourselves. Don't disrupt the squad totally.(but who thinks this squad could really hold their own in the next division up? season long I mean)A lot of clubs have gone through a wringer, but equally a lot of clubs have managed to find the essential point of balance financially which we seem to be a million miles from. why?SL has put in money to keep the club ticking, but thats it we're just ticking. We should be racing along.Is it that he seems to lack the guts or ability to really come up with a dynamic strategy for success, and is happy to pootle along, converting loans to shares(I assume this is that if and when a buyer can be found his return is quite tidy - but who knows bar Steven Lansdown and his board)I'm really pleased that fans want this debate. Its a shame the mods on here can't sometimes grow the balls to let it run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.