Crewe police and stewards - thought it was too good to last

[NickJ]

Well, after my positive post last week on the policing and stewarding at Crewe, it just had to happen, didnt it.

Doncaster. What a bunch of muppets.

The stewards' determination to make every last City fan sit down would have been laughable, were it not for the ill feeling and irritation it caused. At h-t I congratulted steward number 93 on what a wonderful job he had done, and to keep up the good and worthwhile work, and the cretin thought I was being serious. "We don't want them standing up" he said, "they might obstruct someones view". "Yeah", I said "especially the guys in the back row" - to which he agreed before realising what a prat he was.

The PA guy was good value too. When all the City fans were sat down, the numpty put over an announcement to "remind the Bristol City fans that the Keepmoat is an all seater stadium" - responded to by the inevitable "Stand up if you hate the gas".

A chap one side of me, must have been pushing on 70, so he's seen it, done it, and by now aint exactly going to be a thug, just couldnt understand it, he couldnt see the harm in the lads at the back standing up.

Then there's the police.

Started filming the City fans to the left of the goal, when they'd done nothing wrong. Just singing and being a bit boisterous. Do these fools not realise that is likely to provoke the sort of reaction they purport to seek to prevent?

And so to the inevitable scuffles and small number of City lads needlessly arrested. A guy the other side of me returned from half-time with the news that one of his travelling party had had to accompany his 16 year old son to the police station, because he had been arrested for.... being vocal.

We had a great couple of hours before the game in the pub, mingling with the Donny fans, exchanging some banter and finding the common bond that exists between true football fans, but what was very evident to me was that they are as fed up with the things that go on at football nowadays as we are.

I'm by no means a trouble maker, but I think its about time us all football fans stood up to this provocation and stifling of our enjoyment by football clubs, stewards, and police.

[Drew Peacock]

If you've got people singing "no surrender to the IRA" and giving nazi salutes in the kiosk area before the game what do you expect?

[NickJ]

If you've got people singing "no surrender to the IRA" and giving nazi salutes in the kiosk area before the game what do you expect?

What do I expect?

Common sense.

Defuse the situation, if there is one, or at least try to. A quiet word in the ear of the more boisterous ones. That to me would be good policing, not inflaming it.

If that doesn't do the trick, then fine, go in more heavy handed.

If it was in the kiosk area, who exactly were they going to cause trouble with? The lads you are talking about had clearly had a few bevvies, but they weren't out to cause real trouble. Nobody in their right mind is, inside a football ground.

[Tunley Legend]

What do I expect?

Common sense.

Defuse the situation, if there is one, or at least try to. A quiet word in the ear of the more boisterous ones. That to me would be good policing, not inflaming it.

If that doesn't do the trick, then fine, go in more heavy handed.

If it was in the kiosk area, who exactly were they going to cause trouble with? The lads you are talking about had clearly had a few bevvies, but they weren't out to cause real trouble. Nobody in their right mind is, inside a football ground.

Common sense also tells me that as a sixteen year old kid, if you are drunk then you should keep your head down as you have broken the law in the first place instead of singing songs like "No surrender to the IRA". Wouldn't you agree? Don't the vast majority of law abiding supporters have a right to enjoy football without listening to all that b011ock$?

[no1cityfan_tucks]

Common sense also tells me that as a sixteen year old kid, if you are drunk then you should keep your head down as you have broken the law in the first place instead of singing songs like "No surrender to the IRA". Wouldn't you agree? Don't the vast majority of law abiding supporters have a right to enjoy football without listening to all that b011ock$?

Exactly. The vast majority of the city fans didnt get arrested or go causing trouble. We sung just as much and enjoyed the game also.

[Blagdon red]

Common sense also tells me that as a sixteen year old kid, if you are drunk then you should keep your head down as you have broken the law in the first place instead of singing songs like "No surrender to the IRA". Wouldn't you agree? Don't the vast majority of law abiding supporters have a right to enjoy football without listening to all that b011ock$?

I agree and have no sympathy for Nick J's view. I was in that area to near the corner flag in my allocated seat at around 2.45pm. At about 5 to 3 a hundred or so youths, clearly the worse for wear, came marauding in and took over that section. It was clear to me after 40 years of supporting City (including my time in the East End) that they were going to get out of hand and I moved away.

From my new seat further back and nearer the centre I watched on as they continued to behave like the sort of 'fan' I don't want associated with City. Their shouting was not good spirited support, but ugly and yobbish. Few of them watched the game at all. It was also clear that the police and stewards were not going to tolerate non-stop standing. Whatever you may think of that - and I'm personally in favour of introducing safe standing areas - it is currently illegal to stand non-stop at football grounds and the stewards and police are custodians of the law. If people choose to blatantly flout the law and act abusively towards police and stewards into the bargain, they can have no complaint if one or two of their number get ejected.

As a law-abiding fan, I cheered and shouted City onto victory yesterday, had a very enjoyable afternoon and had no reason to speak to, or be spoken to, by any police or stewards - other than the police and stewards that we asked for directions outside the stadium, who were very helpful.

It is sad that the inability of a few youths to enyoy a day out a football match without becoming abusive and yobbish tarnished a good day for City and has been shown on ITV to the whole country - once again the image of City having a core of thugs in amongst our fan base has been perpetuated. If you can't behave yourselves, stay away.

[ciderup]

Another point.

Why did the old bill / stewards keep banging on at the city fans to sit down when the little group of Donny fans to our right stood up for the whole game without a steward going near them?

As for being arrested for being vocal,that is totally rediculous, CS needs to be contacted.

Seemed like 1 rule for us and another for them yesterday.

[Rob k]

Another point.

Why did the old bill / stewards keep banging on at the city fans to sit down when the little group of Donny fans to our right stood up for the whole game without a steward going near them?

As for being arrested for being vocal,that is totally rediculous, CS needs to be contacted.

Seemed like 1 rule for us and another for them yesterday.

Exactly, i was to the right of that group and yes they had had a few beers but they were hardly doing anything that bad apart from have a singsong - Police well over the top and caused a situation that did not have to be made.

[Portishead Red]

I agree and have no sympathy for Nick J's view. I was in that area to near the corner flag in my allocated seat at around 2.45pm. At about 5 to 3 a hundred or so youths, clearly the worse for wear, came marauding in and took over that section. It was clear to me after 40 years of supporting City (including my time in the East End) that they were going to get out of hand and I moved away.

From my new seat further back and nearer the centre I watched on as they continued to behave like the sort of 'fan' I don't want associated with City. Their shouting was not good spirited support, but ugly and yobbish. Few of them watched the game at all. It was also clear that the police and stewards were not going to tolerate non-stop standing. Whatever you may think of that - and I'm personally in favour of introducing safe standing areas - it is currently illegal to stand non-stop at football grounds and the stewards and police are custodians of the law. If people choose to blatantly flout the law and act abusively towards police and stewards into the bargain, they can have no complaint if one or two of their number get ejected.

As a law-abiding fan, I cheered and shouted City onto victory yesterday, had a very enjoyable afternoon and had no reason to speak to, or be spoken to, by any police or stewards - other than the police and stewards that we asked for directions outside the stadium, who were very helpful.

It is sad that the inability of a few youths to enyoy a day out a football match without becoming abusive and yobbish tarnished a good day for City and has been shown on ITV to the whole country - once again the image of City having a core of thugs in amongst our fan base has been perpetuated. If you can't behave yourselves, stay away.

That "boistrous" lot in the corner were intent on causing trouble..........

[bartolona]

That "boistrous" lot in the corner were intent on causing trouble..........

With who ? there was'nt exactly any Donny fans near them. Seemed to me the reason the police moved in was because they were standing.

[Portishead Red]

With who ? there was'nt exactly any Donny fans near them. Seemed to me the reason the police moved in was because they were standing.

Exactly, who? I was walking behind them on the way to the ground with my girlfriend, dad and his girlfriend and they were calling all the donny fans they passed northern c**ts, and the woman and CHILDREN slu*s and scum. I confronted the one who SPAT at a donny fan and his exact words were "come on mate, we're all city, lets do the northern scum".

They didn't change in the ground either, my girlfriend was in total shock that kids no older than 20 were SPITTING at police. If i can stand up, scream the city on and not get spoken to by the police, why cant these morons?

Why is it when these kids put a stone island top on they become really brave. Will they do the same at Millwall????????!!!!

[NickJ]

That "boistrous" lot in the corner were intent on causing trouble..........

Greebo - I agree that the singing of such songs is unnecessary. That is why I said the police could try having a quiet word first. You never know, said in the right way, it might just work. If people are friendly towards you, its difficult to be nasty back and to continue behaving anti-socially.

Blagdon Red - you say it was clear the 100 or so were going to get out of hand. On what basis do you say that? Because they were singing a few unpleasant songs? I think it is possible that handled in the right way, they would have calmed down. If you notice, when a large group of fans enter a football stadium, they often do so in a certain way, as if to announce their arrival. Very often, they then settle down, I've observed that several times over nearly as many years of watching City as you. S.Bcity was in the same area as you, and his perception is that all those lads were doing was having a singsong.

Regarding standing up, discretion is possible - the police and stewards at Crewe proved that, and there was no trouble at all. And as Uwokeiup has pointed out, most of were extremely irritated by the determination of the police and stewards to seat every last City fan, but allowing the group of Donny fans to the right to stand for the entire game.

I am a law abiding fan also, but most of the people around me were fed up with yet another example of the "authorities" doing their best, as we saw it, to stifle any atmosphere. It certainly was very noticeable that a larger number of fans yesterday were quieter than we were at Crewe last week.

[WTFiGO!?!]

I think neither party helped themselves, being pissed, standing, enjoying yourself is where the crack is to be had, there is a line not to be crossed and a shift in mentality that imo isn't right - which is what those questioning Nick's view are suggesting.

I think the Police were going through the motions and not just responding to genuine trouble as there was none. They did unneccessarilly inflame the situation, had there been 600 odd like-minded Donnie the otherside I would've understood it.

...

No offence to anybody, but apart from those 'left of the goal' although travelling in good number were sat, quiet and seemingly miserable/bored, until the goal. Like AG, there were individuals who were trying to make an effort (I wasn't 'left of the goal' first half in a deliberate attempt to keep my head down) but on the whole - that's not my idea of fun at the Football. People object to the extreme element the otherway, but I'm almost as embarrased of our apparent lack of spirit, I believe Crewe was better.

[Bristol Boy]

The problem for me is that Football has been taken over by the PC brigade and Health & Safety is the new Sales!

It's sexy at the moment and if an incident is safety or security related then personal freedon flies out of the window.

Some customers at Football grounds want a boisterous, standing, singing experience and they always have done.The difference was that years ago, they were catered for on terraces and in home ends.You didn't need to tell someone how to behave in the EE, they knew how to behave........just like all the others in there and with hardly a steward in site.

Every club had one and they've gone down if football folklore.

Who hasn't heard of or sing about The Kop, The North Bank, The Holt End, The Shed, The East End..........alright, alright, The Tote End.The point being that I'm a Bristolian and I couldn't even tell you what Rovers home end is called these days!!

Man City's was The Kippax at Maine Rd........what's it called at Eastlands or is it The City of Manchester Stadium??

The lesson football needs to learn is that you cater for your customers.......all of them.

The other point I'd raise is that if one sells a larger and more plentiful range of beer than food it is hardly surprising that one finds a large number of drunken people in your establishment.

[Blagdon red]

Blagdon Red - you say it was clear the 100 or so were going to get out of hand. On what basis do you say that?

Years and years of experience - they weren't wearing colours and their songs were foul-mouthed. It doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to figure out that they had more interest in looking for a fight than watching a football match - which you can't do very well with your back to the pitch thumping a plastic seat!

I think it is possible that handled in the right way, they would have calmed down. If you notice, when a large group of fans enter a football stadium, they often do so in a certain way, as if to announce their arrival.

Like Millwall at AG, you mean? Should we tolerate such loutish behaviour. IMHO, no.

S.Bcity was in the same area as you, and his perception is that all those lads were doing was having a singsong.

I'd refer you to Greebo's description of this group outside the ground - it reflects my view a lot more closely than that of S.Bcity.

Regarding standing up, discretion is possible - the police and stewards at Crewe proved that, and there was no trouble at all. And as Uwokeiup has pointed out, most of were extremely irritated by the determination of the police and stewards to seat every last City fan, but allowing the group of Donny fans to the right to stand for the entire game.

Yes, stewards and police can use discretion, but if in their view (or based on instructions they've had from their superiors) it is necessary to stop fans standing persistently, then any fans that show a blatant disregard for such instructions can only expect to be ejected. As I said before, I'm in favour of bringing back standing, but the seated stands of a football ground is not the place to lobby for this to happen, and misbehaviour such as yesterday's just makes the likelihood of a reintroduction of terraces that bit more remote.

[leadman]

was it not inflamed buy one copper throwing a punch into the back off one of the ejecteds head?

[City+Rangers_loyal]

I was in that section (and no i am not some drunken youth) just got into the ground and wanted to stand with the most vocal

lot so went to the left! Now i know every one has there oppions but i personally didn't think this group entered the ground 'spoiling for a fight'

In my view the stewards were mainly at fault, now fair play the powers that be require fans to be seated in seated areas so on that score they are only doing there job, but surley there are protocals to follow?? the steward with the tat on his head was walking half way up the group and asking people to sit down! now having paid what ever it was to get in did he expect me to sit down in my seat so i can't see a damm thing because the 10 rows in front of me were standing? makes sense to me to get the people at the front to sit down first but maybe that was to much for him to grasp.

This is where the situation got out of hand as the stewards then proceded to physicaly make people sit down by pushing and shoving them this was the the red rag to the bull and South Yorkshire's finest just couldn't wait to get involved, Steward at half time said we were making you sit down for your own safty, what was safe about you lot steaming in like that with the coppers sending many people to the ground???

Also a side note to this talking to plob before hand and he said and i quote" you know are reputation if you don't want to spend the night in Doncaster behave today" also any one in that section notice that none of those coppers had there numbers on so if you wanted to complain about um you couldn't give there number?!?

Anyway rant over we won which is the main point and that steward has to live with the fact he has a tatoo on his head! um nice

GSTQ

[gamon]

The irony here is that there is nothing "Safe" about invading a group of lads and dragging them out of the ground by the throats and then gloating about it afterwards.

[cider head]

That "boistrous" lot in the corner were intent on causing trouble..........

with who?

oh and i was chatting to the group who were singing anti IRA songs and a few were ex squaddies

who have seen their mate blown up by these people so i can understand them signing those songs.

[Robbored]

NickJ can go on all he likes about injustices and heavy handedness of the Donny police but the bottom line is that once again some City 'fans' are shown to be nothing much than abunch of trouble makers.It was even shown on the Championship this morning - not exactly the kind of publicity any football club wants.

Having been at any number of away games over the years I've seen diabolical policing like at Walsall and Swindon and superb policing like at Brentford,Crewe and Torquay.It varies all across the country.You have to expect inconsistancy - its apart of the experience.

[Flaxbourton Red]

The only troublemakers there yesterday were the idiot stewards and the south yorkshire police with their fine reputation of killing football fans through thier ineptitude and negligence.

At crewe the city fans were hailed as fantastic.

At doncaster they are now increasingly labelled as trouble-causing scum by people I'm not even sure where there.

Q. How can the same fantastic fans at crewe become knuckledraggers in the space of 7 days?

A. When the stewards and police incompetantly overreact and the same usual handwringers come out of the woodwork.

[dezgimed]

NickJ can go on all he likes about injustices and heavy handedness of the Donny police but the bottom line is that once again some City 'fans' are shown to be nothing much than abunch of trouble makers.It was even shown on the Championship this morning - not exactly the kind of publicity any football club wants.

Having been at any number of away games over the years I've seen diabolical policing like at Walsall and Swindon and superb policing like at Brentford,Crewe and Torquay.It varies all across the country.You have to expect inconsistancy - its apart of the experience.

I blame the East End.

[Robbored]

The only troublemakers there yesterday were the idiot stewards and the south yorkshire police with their fine reputation of killing football fans through thier ineptitude and negligence.

So that City 'fan' smashing up a seat on TV wasn't a troublemaker?

I know he was just frustrated at the crap attitude of the stewards and local police.Its all thier fault - after all what to they expect? They deserved the Nazi salutes.

[Drew Peacock]

with who?

oh and i was chatting to the group who were singing anti IRA songs and a few were ex squaddies

who have seen their mate blown up by these people so i can understand them signing those songs.

and the nazi salutes?

[cider head]

and the nazi salutes?

dunno mate i didn't see that

[Flaxbourton Red]

So that City 'fan' smashing up a seat on TV wasn't a troublemaker?

I know he was just frustrated at the crap attitude of the stewards and local police.Its all thier fault - after all what to they expect? They deserved the Nazi salutes.

what nazi salutes?

as for the tv images, did the city fans deserve being attacked by the police?

punch a seat=get punched by the police?

is that equitable?

Conduct yourselves in a similar manner at crewe get described as fantastic

a repeat at doncaster will result in an attack from the police?

Hardly worth £18 of anybodies money

[Rob k]

I'm glad i don't go to football with some of the people who have responded to this thread, I was not part of that group and yes they were loud and some of the songs may have had a few naughty words but ffs they have gone to FOOTBALL.

Some of the people on here must lead some boring lives as all they have to do is come on here and moan about some young lads who want to enjoy themselves. I never saw people spitting or abusing people and if that happened then its bang out of order but in the ground i saw nothing wrong aprt from heavy handed policing.

[Drew Peacock]

what nazi salutes?

The nazi salutes being made when they were singing "no surrender to the IRA" before the game.

[Stylus]

The nazi salutes being made when they were singing "no surrender to the IRA" before the game.

Didn't see this but maybe it was the Red Hand of Ulster. Looks very similar.

[Flaxbourton Red]

The nazi salutes being made when they were singing "no surrender to the IRA" before the game.

you idiot handwringer

that is the sign of the red hand not a nazi salute.

it is similar to the gesture we make when we sing "ole ole ole bristol city" (only with two hands).

clueless.