St Sales Pass 5,000

[RedTop]

Quoting the cheapest prices is a poor way of making a judgement IMO.

We're more expensive to watch now than at least half the other Championship clubs.

A POTD ticket will cost £30 to sit in a stand with a decent view.

A bloke taking his wife and two kids to the football and sitting in the family enclosure is being asked to fork out over £300 more.

It's not even close to good value and the overriding point is that it is not necessary. We aren't going to be having a problem of limited supply here for crying out loud so why not fill those 3-4,000 inevitably empty seats by charging a bit less and make more money overall?

Dress it up any way you will, the fact remains that an adult can by a season ticket and watch Bristol City play at £16.30 a game. An adult taking an under-7 into the family area of the Dolman can do it for a total of £18.40 a game. An under-16 can watch City in the Championship from the Dolman or the Williams for £4.56 a game (which is far less than I have to pay for my 3yo to watch a crap film at our local cinema, incidentally), while a student or Under-21 pays £8 a game to watch from the Atyeo or the East End, or £9.80 from the Dolman. If you are telling me that you think any of that represents poor value, then I disagree.

[Bristol Boy]

If they invest the extra cash on better players and their wages which, in turn, cements our Championship spot, then I can't see how you could argue *against* paying more...

On that basis why not increase the prices by 50%?

At what points does it become unfair?

[jimtastic]

On that basis why not increase the prices by 50%?

At what points does it become unfair?

At the point where people stop buying tickets. And I remain convinced we'll see an increase in ST sales this season.

[cidercity1987]

At the point where people stop buying tickets. And I remain convinced we'll see an increase in ST sales this season.

Of course we will, we've gone up a league! If we don't sell more, then quite simply, it'd be a disgrace.

[Geoff65]

Some thing that hasn't been mentioned yet on this thread is the fact that ST Sales, particularly this season, won't tell the whole story.

IMHO very, very few fans will buy tickets in advance and even less POD.

Are you saying that disillusioned ST holders who resent paying a 30% increase on STs will boycott the whole of next season - I ask for clarity- I would have thought the number of games seen by those of us who buy tickets in advance maybe a little down due to the price hike - but add in the guys who only want to pay £350 (10 - 11 games)(i.e. the disillusioned STs who wont renew) then add in the new first time ST holders and new fans who want to come more than once or twice then the average gate will go up and the total revenue will have gone up. What will then decide how much extra revenue the club will have made is the success on the pitch.

It may well be that our attendances will be 95/95% ST's plus away fans.

POD & Matchday Tickets equalled 68% of our average attendance last season.

Can you expand a little - not sure what you are trying to say

[Nibor]

If they invest the extra cash on better players and their wages which, in turn, cements our Championship spot, then I can't see how you could argue *against* paying more...

What extra cash?

I'm going to try and explain this with some maths.

Say the original price of a season ticket last season was £300 and assume everyone's cost the same price to make it nice simple round numbers.

If we sell 8,000 @ £390 (30% rise) we make £3.12m

To make the same amount of money at a 20% rise how many extra tickets would we have to sell?

667.

Do you see what I'm getting at now?

Just because the price is higher doesn't mean the club make any more money. I think they'd have made just as much with a 15-20% rise because they'd have shifted those extra tickets.

We shall see at the end of the season I guess.

[Chappers]

suspect we will know somewhat sooner that those forecasting miserable season ticket sales and lost revenue as a result of increased prices will be proved wrong.

And if we are proved right will you guys be eating humble pie?

This season will have good initial attendances, BUT it is when the novelty wears off that the high prices will bite and if we are not doing well, that could be as soon as October/ November. ST sales might be around 8-10K, BUT for a lot of the mundane games (And there are rather a lot of them!), there will be no rush for POTD at £30 a ticket. And how many will renew for 08/09 if we are mid-lower table? And do we get a price cut for lower wages and lower quality football if relegated?

Try looking beyond the Club spin!

[Nibor]

Dress it up any way you will, the fact remains that an adult can by a season ticket and watch Bristol City play at £16.30 a game. An adult taking an under-7 into the family area of the Dolman can do it for a total of £18.40 a game. An under-16 can watch City in the Championship from the Dolman or the Williams for £4.56 a game (which is far less than I have to pay for my 3yo to watch a crap film at our local cinema, incidentally), while a student or Under-21 pays £8 a game to watch from the Atyeo or the East End, or £9.80 from the Dolman. If you are telling me that you think any of that represents poor value, then I disagree.

Dress it up any way you will, a 30-40% price hike and no loyalty shown to fans is a stupid business decision no matter how many restricted viewing seat prices you quote.

I've written reams on this and I'm bored of it, the argument is all there in black and white and for me it boils down to the fact that we will make **** all extra money from doing this so why not have the stadium fuller.

[Geoff65]

Overall, it's such a disappointing feeling knowing we're going to have 14,000 fans per match, and not 16,000/17,000 as we would be capable of given the right pricing structure.

I would have thought we will see 12k crowds and 18/19k crowds i.e. a big divergence in crowds depending on who comes to town. The figure may stabalise at a higher figure if success is achieved and nearer teh 12k if we struggle. This assumes poor season ticket numbers - we can guess at the numbers but until the final figure is in we can play this what if game for a long long time.

[Bristol Boy]

At the point where people stop buying tickets. And I remain convinced we'll see an increase in ST sales this season.

Christ, you're sticking your neck out there, mate!!!

We've got the EE open and we've been promoted after nine seasons.

I should bloody well think we should and, like I've said, I'll be upset if we don't shift 10,500-12,000-We'd better because POD's RIP

[cidercity1987]

I would have thought we will see 12k crowds and 18/19k crowds i.e. a big divergence in crowds depending on who comes to town. The figure may stabalise at a higher figure if success is achieved and nearer teh 12k if we struggle. This assumes poor season ticket numbers - we can guess at the numbers but until the final figure is in we can play this what if game for a long long time.

I meant on average. No matter what success we have (unless we're top of the league all season and getting sell outs anyway) if prices had been pitched more sensibly (i.e, 15-20% rise) we would be able to achieve a higher average attendance, while also maximising our revenue.

[RedTop]

Dress it up any way you will, a 30-40% price hike and no loyalty shown to fans is a stupid business decision no matter how many restricted viewing seat prices you quote.

I've written reams on this and I'm bored of it, the argument is all there in black and white

Absolutely. It's there in black and white. Forget the rhetoric and the whinging about how much cheaper it used to be, and how much percentage more it costs etc etc. Just work out how much it actually costs next season to watch City play in the Championship per game with a season ticket, and it becomes clear that it's a fair price.

Incidentally, which part of the Dolman and Atyeo is restricted view? With the exception of the Williams Stand (and I've never understood why anyone would prefer to sit there than the Dolman) the only restricted view will be in the East End which...er...the fans have just been campaigning to have opened! And, apart from the kids' price in the kids' area, the cheapest tickets are in the...er...East End, which the fans have been demanding be reopened because they particularly want to sit there! So hey presto they can sit in the seats they want at a decent price. If you look at the prices I've quoted, which seem pretty damned cheap per game, most are for the Dolman - where the view is of course excellent.

And still there's whinging. God help us if we get into the Premiership...

[Rich]

Of course we will, we've gone up a league! If we don't sell more, then quite simply, it'd be a disgrace.

You also have to take into account that potd prices have been increased so much that, if you do intend going regularly then the overpriced S T purchase would have to be a must. Which could be why we've sold as many as 5k. Add to that the 1k new S T sales for the East End and 4k ain't so good. I saw Sexton in M&S the other day buying multi packs of underpants

[Bristol Boy]

Are you saying that disillusioned ST holders who resent paying a 30% increase on STs will boycott the whole of next season - I ask for clarity- I would have thought the number of games seen by those of us who buy tickets in advance maybe a little down due to the price hike - but add in the guys who only want to pay £350 (10 - 11 games)(i.e. the disillusioned STs who wont renew) then add in the new first time ST holders and new fans who want to come more than once or twice then the average gate will go up and the total revenue will have gone up. What will then decide how much extra revenue the club will have made is the success on the pitch.

The cut off for me in the Dolman is 15 games, so I'll renew.I think a lot depends, as always, on performances and if we're bottom of the League after 10/15 games the POD & Ticket sales will be neglible.Some people have already said that they and their kids won't renew and that they'll do 4/5 games, possibly.Given some of the teams we're playing, the away support could well offset those that stay away-however, that in itself will be disappointing if our average stays the same and the ratio of home fans falls.

I would rather have the same revenue from more people and fill the ground-That would be better from a football perspective.We may, as Nibor has said, earn more revenue if the prices were lower and we sold more tickets.Those additiona people will also buy shirts, food, drink, programmes etc.

It may well be that our attendances will be 95/95% ST's plus away fans.

POD & Matchday Tickets equalled 68% of our average attendance last season.

Can you expand a little - not sure what you are trying to say

Glad to.Even if more people buy ST's- as they should, given promotion and the EE opening, if that means our POD & Matchday tickets dwindle to say 10/15% instead of 40% of the entire crowd number, then we'll actually make far less money from having the same number of people in the in the ground.

[Dolman Block B]

Absolutely. It's there in black and white. Forget the rhetoric and the whinging about how much cheaper it used to be, and how much percentage more it costs etc etc. Just work out how much it actually costs next season to watch City play in the Championship per game with a season ticket, and it becomes clear that it's a fair price.

Incidentally, which part of the Dolman and Atyeo is restricted view? With the exception of the Williams Stand (and I've never understood why anyone would prefer to sit there than the Dolman) the only restricted view will be in the East End which...er...the fans have just been campaigning to have opened! And, apart from the kids' price in the kids' area, the cheapest tickets are in the...er...East End, which the fans have been demanding be reopened because they particularly want to sit there! So hey presto they can sit in the seats they want at a decent price. If you look at the prices I've quoted, which seem pretty damned cheap per game, most are for the Dolman - where the view is of course excellent.

And still there's whinging. God help us if we get into the Premiership...

Changing the subject slightly Brian, lets say we get 10/11000 season ticket holders, just how many pay on the day fans do you think will pay up to £28 a match?

I reckon it could be a disaster, as a handful of my mates who were season ticket holders just aint going to buy one this season, and have 100% told me they wont be paying that "pay on the day" ticket price.

Please don't go down the road of them not being die hard City followers. They are mate, but just cant afford it

[Nibor]

Absolutely. It's there in black and white. Forget the rhetoric and the whinging about how much cheaper it used to be, and how much percentage more it costs etc etc. Just work out how much it actually costs next season to watch City play in the Championship per game with a season ticket, and it becomes clear that it's a fair price.

Incidentally, which part of the Dolman and Atyeo is restricted view? With the exception of the Williams Stand (and I've never understood why anyone would prefer to sit there than the Dolman) the only restricted view will be in the East End which...er...the fans have just been campaigning to have opened! And, apart from the kids' price in the kids' area, the cheapest tickets are in the...er...East End, which the fans have been demanding be reopened because they particularly want to sit there! So hey presto they can sit in the seats they want at a decent price. If you look at the prices I've quoted, which seem pretty damned cheap per game, most are for the Dolman - where the view is of course excellent.

And still there's whinging. God help us if we get into the Premiership...

RedTop I'm very surprised, you're normally one of the posters who's actually capable of reading, understanding and responding coherently.

What you're doing here is a classic argument from the specific to the general and it isn't valid. Just because some specific prices you pulled up look like good value to you doesn't mean all the prices are suddenly good value for everyone. I can counter it by saying £30 to watch 90 minutes against Chesterfield. Big deal.

If you think it's value then how does it compare to other clubs in the Championship?

If you think it's a good business decision then what do you think the plan is for coping with the possibility of relegation?

If you think it will make the club more money then why do you think sales are slower than the last couple of years?

I can only assume if you keep ignoring the points made, for example that this hike was unnecessary and risks the clubs future, that you can't answer them. A pity.

[Kibs]

5000 season tickets so far is a decent amount in my opinion especially considering the rise in prices and the lack of early bird offers etc. There is still 9 days for people to renew and as alot of people on here are seemingly going to leave it until the last minute to make the club sweat - It could turn out to be alot more than some have expected. Obviously only time will tell but if they do reach 10000 then I think the club will be very pleased.

Glad to.Even if more people buy ST's- as they should, given promotion and the EE opening, if that means our POD & Matchday tickets dwindle to say 10/15% instead of almost 70% of the entire crowd number, then we'll actually make far less money from having the same number of people in the in the ground.

I'm sorry, I disagree. I agree that the POTD prices are a rip off but as they always have been and will be but I will be gobsmacked if the amount of people paying on the day reduces from 70% of the overall attendance to 10/15%.

Is it not fair to say that if there are more people buying season tickets(First timers, People that havent had one for a long time, People who want to watch City in the Championship etc) that there could also be people who think, Bristol City, Championship side now, May get down the gate and watch a few more games next season? Then you also have the people that are saying "I'm not buying a season ticket at those prices, I will just pick and choose my games next season".

I expect there will be less people than last season paying on the day but I don't think the drop will be anywhere near what you are stating. Again, Only time will tell.

[Atticus]

(and I've never understood why anyone would prefer to sit there than the Dolman)

1. There are loads of people that bugger off 10 minutes early in the dolman restricting your view.

2. When the sun is shining it smacks you in the face

Nothing wrong with the Williams as long as your not behind a post.

[Kibs]

RedTop I'm very surprised, you're normally one of the posters who's actually capable of reading, understanding and responding coherently.

What you're doing here is a classic argument from the specific to the general and it isn't valid. Just because some specific prices you pulled up look like good value to you doesn't mean all the prices are suddenly good value for everyone. I can counter it by saying £30 to watch 90 minutes against Chesterfield. Big deal.

If you think it's value then how does it compare to other clubs in the Championship?

If you think it's a good business decision then what do you think the plan is for coping with the possibility of relegation?

If you think it will make the club more money then why do you think sales are slower than the last couple of years?

I can only assume if you keep ignoring the points made, for example that this hike was unnecessary and risks the clubs future, that you can't answer them. A pity.

Oh come off it, Because he genuinely believes that the season tickets are a fair price and disagreeing with you, you are questioning his ability to read the post and respond!! ha ha

Clearly many people are unhappy, But just because you're not happy does'nt mean that others are wrong or unhappy aswell. If he is happy to pay that price for a season ticket then I'm pleased for him. Enjoy championship football next season Redtop, I know I will.

[Bristol Boy]

Changing the subject slightly Brian, lets say we get 10/11000 season ticket holders, just how many pay on the day fans do you think will pay up to £28 a match?

I reckon it could be a disaster, as a handful of my mates who were season ticket holders just aint going to buy one this season, and have 100% told me they wont be paying that "pay on the day" ticket price.

Please don't go down the road of them not being die hard City followers. They are mate, but just cant afford it

In fairness, the club needs a balance between ST's & POD's and I really can't see why we're trying to drive them away.I'm inlcluding purchasers of matchday tickets in advance as POD's for this example.

For example, if we have a 12,000 crowd and 2,000 are away fans-that's 2,000 PODs to kick off with at, say £28 = £56k

If all 10,000 City fans are ST's at say £16.30 that's £163k

However if 7,000 are ST = £114,000

With 3,000 POD = £84,000

That's £198k-A whopping 21% more.

Whilst it's advantageous in many ways (Cash Flow, Guaranteed Revenue) to sell ST's at a lower price than POD, if one can acheive the kind of balance we clearly did last season, that is better financially in the long term.

For a typical game last season we had 7,600 ST's & 5,200 POD's inc away fans and not many League teams brought more than 600 to AG (Forest, Yeovil, Swansea)

ST holders will be on the look out for panic reductions or offers to ensure they have value for money and that's only fair.

[Nibor]

Oh come off it, Because he genuinely believes that the season tickets are a fair price and disagreeing with you, you are questioning his ability to read the post and respond!! ha ha

No, because unusually for RedTop he didn't actually respond to any of the points made. He didn't agree or disagree with whether or not the rise was good business, necessary or risky. Well done for trying though.

[punnett]

very few will pay £30 pay on the day unless it is a big game i know so many people who have said i'm not going to pay that to watch s'thorpe, c'chester, burnley etc and these are proper city fans who have followed city everywhere for years, the problem is that now they are alienating true city fans and once people find other interests it will be v. difficult to get them back, as a massive city fan from a massive working class city family i can assure everyone that they are pushing our loyalty to the absolute maximum

[0738parkway]

Sorry i may well be wrong ( i ll admit being wrong even if bristol city don't ) but me and my family of 4 all my mates and a hell of alot of people i know havent bought there eason tickets yet , so there is even alot of new season ticket holders or the club are talking bullshit and a bit of panic is setting in , also by the way with the price of pay on the day tickets city best hope they sell 15000 season tickets cos unless were flying in the league thats the only way i see city getting that amount of fans at the gate this season thats without the away followings

[jimtastic]

Christ, you're sticking your neck out there, mate!!!

I get the distinct impression that some people on here believe that we'll see a drop.

Sooner we see half decent season ticket figures the better. Then the Sextone whiners can piss and moan about something else. Catering probably - haven't had that chestnut for a while.

[Rich]

Oh come off it, Because he genuinely believes that the season tickets are a fair price and disagreeing with you, you are questioning his ability to read the post and respond!! ha ha

Clearly many people are unhappy, But just because you're not happy does'nt mean that others are wrong or unhappy aswell. If he is happy to pay that price for a season ticket then I'm pleased for him. Enjoy championship football next season Redtop, I know I will.

I wouldn't mind betting that those people supporting the price hike are mostly young free and single. I would probably have had simmilar thoughts myself a few years back,but the fact that this subject has provoked such response from long standing supporters who feel, like me that we've been smacked in the face with a wet fish proves something is fundamentaly wrong,

[Bristol Boy]

5000 season tickets so far is a decent amount in my opinion especially considering the rise in prices and the lack of early bird offers etc. There is still 9 days for people to renew and as alot of people on here are seemingly going to leave it until the last minute to make the club sweat - It could turn out to be alot more than some have expected. Obviously only time will tell but if they do reach 10000 then I think the club will be very pleased.

I'm sorry, I disagree. I agree that the POTD prices are a rip off but as they always have been and will be but I will be gobsmacked if the amount of people paying on the day reduces from 70% of the overall attendance to 10/15%.

Is it not fair to say that if there are more people buying season tickets(First timers, People that havent had one for a long time, People who want to watch City in the Championship etc) that there could also be people who think, Bristol City, Championship side now, May get down the gate and watch a few more games next season? Then you also have the people that are saying "I'm not buying a season ticket at those prices, I will just pick and choose my games next season".

I expect there will be less people than last season paying on the day but I don't think the drop will be anywhere near what you are stating. Again, Only time will tell.

If we sell 10,000 ST's then you're looking at averages of 14,000 and a lot could depend on away attendances which will, IMHO, average about 1,000-1,500.WBA & Wolves will bring 3,000 or more if going well, but Colchester & Barnsley about 300 so I don't think I'm far away.

Like you say we'll have to wait and see.

[Nibor]

I get the distinct impression that some people on here believe that we'll see a drop.

Not me. I think we'll see nowhere near the increase in attendance we should.

Sooner we see half decent season ticket figures the better. Then the Sextone whiners can piss and moan about something else. Catering probably - haven't had that chestnut for a while.

Who in their right mind expects anything other than shit food and long queues at a football stadium? Bugger that.

Probably some happy clappy tree hugging sandal wearer I suspect!

[RedTop]

Changing the subject slightly Brian, lets say we get 10/11000 season ticket holders, just how many pay on the day fans do you think will pay up to £28 a match?

I reckon it could be a disaster, as a handful of my mates who were season ticket holders just aint going to buy one this season, and have 100% told me they wont be paying that "pay on the day" ticket price.

Please don't go down the road of them not being die hard City followers. They are mate, but just cant afford it

I wouldn't for a moment assume I'm in a position to judge who is and isn't a diehard fan, Arn. But I do think that in terms of season ticket prices, watching City play represents good value for money when compared with similar entertainment. It is always the case in a commercial world that pricing puts a value on things that forces us to make choices, whether it be the cinema, theatre or football etc. As a businessman, you yourself must have to pitch what you do at a fair price for your product, rather than a price that every single person who might like to buy your wares can afford. I'm guessing you try and make it as affordable as possible for potential customers. Likewise, the club provides a range of prices for a range of views and also provides a way of spreading payment over seven installments which should put it within the reach of most fans, with seven monthly payments of £48 for an adult in the Atyeo or £58 in the Dolman. Realistically, the difference per month with the increase compared to what it would otherwise have been can't be more than the equivalent of a couple of pints at the most.

To answer your question, how many pay on the day fans we get will depend on two things: how well we are doing in the league, and the attractiveness of the opposition. Those who are going to pick and choose which games to attend will probably pick the more glamorous matches against Charlton, West Brom etc. The prices are high compared to a season ticket, they do look pricey and I agree with you that fewer are likely to come down on the spur of the moment as a result, so I well believe your mates. I guess the club is looking to maximise the number of fans who decide the difference is worth buying a season ticket for, which is money banked by the club in advance, and therefore insurance against a bad season.

In one way, I guess hiking up the pay on the day prices now is a gamble because if we have a bad season fewer will come through the gates. But against that, if gates dip and there's a bad season the club have the option of doing various cut-price deals etc to stimulate extra pay on the day demand. As suggested elsewhere, they'll have to be careful doing this without p***ing off the ST holders, but to date they've walked the line reasonably well with quid a kid games, extra tickets offered to ST holders to bring friends etc, and they'll probably be able to do the same in the coming year. On the other hand, if we have a decent season, I think more people will be tempted to pay on the day. Additionally, the £28 figure is presumably for the more attractive games, whereas I'd guess fans will be able to get in for much less against Colchester etc.

I simply don't believe that most people complaining about the price can't afford it. I accept there will be one or two, and sadly 'twas ever thus that not everyone can afford to do what they want in this life. But I think the vast, vast majority of people who are complaining would simply rather pay less. Wouldn't we all? The price rise as a percentage may come as a shock to the system, but when you look at the actual figures, I say again that the price per game is very reasonable, and the installment plan is there for those who can't afford it all in one chunk. The club have not been generous, I agree, but they have been pretty reasonable. The ST prices are fair, and they've also listened to the fans about ( a ) opening the East End and ( b ) reinstating season tickets in the area of the Atyeo initially made unreserved.

[Bristol Boy]

Something that hasn't been mentioned yet on this thread is the fact that ST Sales, particularly this season, won't tell the whole story.

IMHO very, very few fans will buy tickets in advance and even less POD.

It may well be that our attendances will be 95/95% ST's plus away fans.

POD & Matchday Tickets equalled 68% of our average attendance last season.

Apologies for error it was 40% not 68%-But that's still a massive chunk of reveunue and if 10% buy an ST and 10% do a limited POD, that still leaves 20% to walk and that could be an issue as it's about 2,600 people!!

[Kibs]

No, because unusually for RedTop he didn't actually respond to any of the points made. He didn't agree or disagree with whether or not the rise was good business, necessary or risky. Well done for trying though.

Trying what?!

Who cares, If he's happy to pay the prices then thats what matters to him. Clearly there is a big divide. Some people think the prices are ridiculous and a risky move from the club, but some people think its good value for money to watch Bristol City - There club - in the Championship. Lets just leave it at that.

Its simple and ive said it before, If you don't like it, don't pay up and then maybe something will be done but as it stands the sales are going okay so don't expect any U-Turns from the club.