St Sales Pass 5,000

[Rob k]

all this talk about season ticket prices is silly - I paid more than £16.30 to every single away game i went to last season so in my opinion its very good value, Ive not renewed mine yet and wont for at least another few days and i know a few people who will do the same - what else is there to do on a saturday afternoon!!

[punnett]

I wouldn't for a moment assume I'm in a position to judge who is and isn't a diehard fan, Arn. But I do think that in terms of season ticket prices, watching City play represents good value for money when compared with similar entertainment. It is always the case in a commercial world that pricing puts a value on things that forces us to make choices, whether it be the cinema, theatre or football etc. As a businessman, you yourself must have to pitch what you do at a fair price for your product, rather than a price that every single person who might like to buy your wares can afford. I'm guessing you try and make it as affordable as possible for potential customers. Likewise, the club provides a range of prices for a range of views and also provides a way of spreading payment over seven installments which should put it within the reach of most fans, with seven monthly payments of £48 for an adult in the Atyeo or £58 in the Dolman. Realistically, the difference per month with the increase compared to what it would otherwise have been can't be more than the equivalent of a couple of pints at the most.

To answer your question, how many pay on the day fans we get will depend on two things: how well we are doing in the league, and the attractiveness of the opposition. Those who are going to pick and choose which games to attend will probably pick the more glamorous matches against Charlton, West Brom etc. The prices are high compared to a season ticket, they do look pricey and I agree with you that fewer are likely to come down on the spur of the moment as a result, so I well believe your mates. I guess the club is looking to maximise the number of fans who decide the difference is worth buying a season ticket for, which is money banked by the club in advance, and therefore insurance against a bad season.

In one way, I guess hiking up the pay on the day prices now is a gamble because if we have a bad season fewer will come through the gates. But against that, if gates dip and there's a bad season the club have the option of doing various cut-price deals etc to stimulate extra pay on the day demand. As suggested elsewhere, they'll have to be careful doing this without p***ing off the ST holders, but to date they've walked the line reasonably well with quid a kid games, extra tickets offered to ST holders to bring friends etc, and they'll probably be able to do the same in the coming year. On the other hand, if we have a decent season, I think more people will be tempted to pay on the day. Additionally, the £28 figure is presumably for the more attractive games, whereas I'd guess fans will be able to get in for much less against Colchester etc.

I simply don't believe that most people complaining about the price can't afford it. I accept there will be one or two, and sadly 'twas ever thus that not everyone can afford to do what they want in this life. But I think the vast, vast majority of people who are complaining would simply rather pay less. Wouldn't we all? The price rise as a percentage may come as a shock to the system, but when you look at the actual figures, I say again that the price per game is very reasonable, and the installment plan is there for those who can't afford it all in one chunk. The club have not been generous, I agree, but they have been pretty reasonable. The ST prices are fair, and they've also listened to the fans about ( a ) opening the East End and ( b ) reinstating season tickets in the area of the Atyeo initially made unreserved.

Please redtop try and justify how i try to tell my 3 kids that their dad cant afford our 4 season tickets this yearfor the first time , we are just a normal south bristol working class family,I don't HAVE A SPARE £900, please believe me that not EVERYONE has this sort of money

[Bristol Boy]

Please redtop try and justify how i try to tell my 3 kids that their dad cant afford our 4 season tickets this yearfor the first time , we are just a normal south bristol working class family,I don't HAVE A SPARE £900, please believe me that not EVERYONE has this sort of money

Where do you sit and how much has it gone up by?

[jimtastic]

Probably some happy clappy tree hugging sandal wearer I suspect!

Nah, just someone who can accept the commercial realities of football today, rather than constantly attacking a Chief Executive who isn't afraid of upsetting deluded fans who want Premiership quality football at Conference prices.

It's sad that football's so expensive these days, but it's not City or Sextone's fault. If you want to blame anyone, blame Murdoch, Sky and greedy agents.

For the record, I agree that the pies suck balls

[Nibor]

Nah, just someone who can accept the commercial realities of football today, rather than constantly attacking a Chief Executive who isn't afraid of upsetting deluded fans who want Premiership quality football at Conference prices.

It's sad that football's so expensive these days, but it's not City or Sextone's fault. If you want to blame anyone, blame Murdoch, Sky and greedy agents.

For the record, I agree that the pies suck balls

I must admit that did make me chuckle.

I just think we're actually going to make less money and have a less enjoyable atmosphere than we would with a smaller price rise. That's a real pity.

If we sell out or near I'll eat humble pie. As long as it isn't from Ashton Gate.

[punnett]

Where do you sit and how much has it gone up by?

In the Dolman my ticket would be £450ish my eldest is now 16 so he would have to pay a new rate £240ish? and my 2 youngest £110 each, the thing is we all knew there was to be a decent increase on the way (fair enough) but this increase is nothing short of savage for families and a real kick in the teeth, the thing is i shouldn't be surprised by some of the replys trying to justify such a price hike as we are more and more living in a "i'm allright Jack society"

[Dolman Block B]

I wouldn't for a moment assume I'm in a position to judge who is and isn't a diehard fan, Arn. But I do think that in terms of season ticket prices, watching City play represents good value for money when compared with similar entertainment. It is always the case in a commercial world that pricing puts a value on things that forces us to make choices, whether it be the cinema, theatre or football etc. As a businessman, you yourself must have to pitch what you do at a fair price for your product, rather than a price that every single person who might like to buy your wares can afford. I'm guessing you try and make it as affordable as possible for potential customers. Likewise, the club provides a range of prices for a range of views and also provides a way of spreading payment over seven installments which should put it within the reach of most fans, with seven monthly payments of £48 for an adult in the Atyeo or £58 in the Dolman. Realistically, the difference per month with the increase compared to what it would otherwise have been can't be more than the equivalent of a couple of pints at the most.

To answer your question, how many pay on the day fans we get will depend on two things: how well we are doing in the league, and the attractiveness of the opposition. Those who are going to pick and choose which games to attend will probably pick the more glamorous matches against Charlton, West Brom etc. The prices are high compared to a season ticket, they do look pricey and I agree with you that fewer are likely to come down on the spur of the moment as a result, so I well believe your mates. I guess the club is looking to maximise the number of fans who decide the difference is worth buying a season ticket for, which is money banked by the club in advance, and therefore insurance against a bad season.

In one way, I guess hiking up the pay on the day prices now is a gamble because if we have a bad season fewer will come through the gates. But against that, if gates dip and there's a bad season the club have the option of doing various cut-price deals etc to stimulate extra pay on the day demand. As suggested elsewhere, they'll have to be careful doing this without p***ing off the ST holders, but to date they've walked the line reasonably well with quid a kid games, extra tickets offered to ST holders to bring friends etc, and they'll probably be able to do the same in the coming year. On the other hand, if we have a decent season, I think more people will be tempted to pay on the day. Additionally, the £28 figure is presumably for the more attractive games, whereas I'd guess fans will be able to get in for much less against Colchester etc.

I simply don't believe that most people complaining about the price can't afford it. I accept there will be one or two, and sadly 'twas ever thus that not everyone can afford to do what they want in this life. But I think the vast, vast majority of people who are complaining would simply rather pay less. Wouldn't we all? The price rise as a percentage may come as a shock to the system, but when you look at the actual figures, I say again that the price per game is very reasonable, and the installment plan is there for those who can't afford it all in one chunk. The club have not been generous, I agree, but they have been pretty reasonable. The ST prices are fair, and they've also listened to the fans about ( a ) opening the East End and ( b ) reinstating season tickets in the area of the Atyeo initially made unreserved.

Good reply and thanks.

I think what sums it up is this.

I'm fairly sure at least 80% of current season ticket holders will renew.

I'm not sure about new season ticket holders, but would feel slightly let down if we didnt pull in 1500 at least.

As you said, P O T D mostly comes down to how well we do on the pitch.

If off to a flying start, we could actually see more fans taking up season ticket options, but more importantly P O T D will def increase.

But thats the positive.

Poor start, and it could go desperately wrong.

Lets be honest though Brian, thats Bristol City for you!!!!!!!

[semblar]

As an alternative view on whether the ST sales are ahead or behind - and even forgetting the early bird price (which would have distorted the profile, due to people trying to buy before the EB deadline) - how many season tickets had been sold last year THIS MANY DAYS AFTER THEY WENT ON SALE? Even if you assume that the numbers have been inflated by taking away 400 (is that the capacity?) for the premier seating, then we have still sold over 4,600 tickets in half the time.

Last year, the prices were announced on the 19th of April... this year, they were pretty much a month later (15th of May?). So we're comparing sales against the same date last year, when they had been on sale for a month longer and at early bird prices until the 2nd of June. But we had already sold over 2,000 tickets last year, by the time that ST prices were announced this year.

SO I'm not surprised that CS is happy with sales so far...Don't get me wrong, I'm not convinced that a 30% hike in prices was necessary (for those of us who didn't take the Foundation option at least - our hike will be next year...) - but I'm equally not convinced that the rate of sales has been slower as a result. We're not going to know for sure how many ST sales there will be until the season starts, but the next "interesting point" to know the number bought will be 15th June, the deadline for keeping the same seat. I'll be doing my renewal on the 15th...purely because that's my payday. But I'll be doing it in person, as I'm darn sure the phones will be busy, given the number of people who are delaying to make a point to CS.

Dan

[jimtastic]

I must admit that did make me chuckle.

I just think we're actually going to make less money and have a less enjoyable atmosphere than we would with a smaller price rise. That's a real pity.

If we sell out or near I'll eat humble pie. As long as it isn't from Ashton Gate.

I agree, it's a real pity.

I wouldn't be at all surprised to see more clubs like AFC Wimbledon springing up in coming years as disillusioned fans look for a more "authentic" footballing experience.

[Tunley Legend]

Please redtop try and justify how i try to tell my 3 kids that their dad cant afford our 4 season tickets this yearfor the first time , we are just a normal south bristol working class family,I don't HAVE A SPARE £900, please believe me that not EVERYONE has this sort of money

I'm not making light of your situation in the slightest but you could instead pay £770 for the four season tickets you require and sit in the Ateyo. How does that compare with what you paid last season?

Again I know we are talking a lot of money here but £770 works out at £8.36 per game on average for each member of your family (I appreciate that you probably have to stump up all the cash yourself). Even £900 works out at less than a tenner each. When you look at it like that how extornionate are the prices and what did you really expect them to be? Nobody who is against the price rises has actually quoted what they consider to be acceptable figures. What do you think acceptable figures would have been?

[Chappers]

Last year £325, so I expected a maximum of £375 this year, or about 15%.

Inflation is about 3%, my pay rise was 2.5%.

but this increase is nothing short of savage for families and a real kick in the teeth, the thing is i shouldn't be surprised by some of the replys trying to justify such a price hike as we are more and more living in a "i'm allright Jack society"

Well put Punnett. Sorry to hear of another family going, not the first and undoubtedly not the last. You can always tell your kids 'It's only a pint a week', or should that be 'It's only a bottle of coke a week'!

[RedTop]

In the Dolman my ticket would be £450ish my eldest is now 16 so he would have to pay a new rate £240ish? and my 2 youngest £110 each, the thing is we all knew there was to be a decent increase on the way (fair enough) but this increase is nothing short of savage for families and a real kick in the teeth, the thing is i shouldn't be surprised by some of the replys trying to justify such a price hike as we are more and more living in a "i'm allright Jack society"

I'm not trying to say "I'm all right Jack". I understand that different people have different circumstances. But at £110 each, the price of taking each child to a football match is less than you'd be paying to take each of them to see a film at my local cinema.

I remember the year I hit the age where my dad had to stump up for a full price season ticket. It was a hell of a change all of a sudden, and that was just with one kid. So it has been that way for a long time. The bottom line is that if you take three kids to do anything, whether it's watching football, going to the cinema or going to the farm, it ain't going to be cheap. That's not me saying "I'm all right Jack". It's just a fact of life. That does not make the price of a ticket unfair, but I appreciate it's difficult. But that's why there's an installment plan to spread the cost and try to ease the hit on the pocket, and why there are areas of the ground where the price is lower.

[Dogbert]

Does anyone have an idea of our ticket prices in 1989/90 compared to 1990/91 and also a comparison between 97/98 and 98/99?

[robins72]

Does anyone have an idea of our ticket prices in 1989/90 compared to 1990/91 and also a comparison between 97/98 and 98/99?

I know in 1998/99 season a ticket in the ayteo for the season was only £235.

[Stoke_Gifford_Red]

I agree, it's a real pity.

I wouldn't be at all surprised to see more clubs like AFC Wimbledon springing up in coming years as disillusioned fans look for a more "authentic" footballing experience.

Well it happend with that Manchester United group, and I heard that there are also similar things at Arsenal and Manchester City (although in these cases I think they were just fans teams which have morphed into something more).

[Meh]

Is it that a customer chooses to buy or not to buy the goods or service, whilst a supporter ensures the goods or service can continue?

[Bristol Boy]

In the Dolman my ticket would be £450ish my eldest is now 16 so he would have to pay a new rate £240ish? and my 2 youngest £110 each, the thing is we all knew there was to be a decent increase on the way (fair enough) but this increase is nothing short of savage for families and a real kick in the teeth, the thing is i shouldn't be surprised by some of the replys trying to justify such a price hike as we are more and more living in a "i'm allright Jack society"

Just wondered how much that had gone up from last season?

My Dolman seat is £455 that's £105 increase or 30% for a restricted view.........restricted by the ar$eholes who leave, or rather, don't leave, but stand in the way with ten minutes to go!!

Still, if you build a stand without a rear entry & exit

[Chappers]

Supporters are basically captive customers. Supporters will not choose to go elsewhere like Asda/ Tesco customers. If you look at private Companies that act as a monopoly (Water Companies being an obvious example, or rail Companies), or as a cartel (Drug Companies, Banks), the customer/ consumer gets taken for granted and prices are set to the maximum possible.

I read a quote today about excessive ticket prices generally in football that 'Clubs are exploiting loyalty'.

[Bristol Boy]

Nobody who is against the price rises has actually quoted what they consider to be acceptable figures. What do you think acceptable figures would have been?

Before the price increases and some of the most savage are on POD and not ST's, I wrote that 15/20% would be a reasonable amount and I'll stick to that.Even so, an existing ST Holder would have got 5% discount for purchasing prior to 1st June with a lump sum purchase (i.e. Not Installments).

I would have also, on the basis of 30% rises, offered 0% and ten instalments to soften the blow.

I don't think any of those statements are out of touch with reality or a particularly soft option.

They reflect the increased costs of Championship Football and still reward loyalty.That same loyalty will be much needed if we screw up and exit this division in the next two seasons.

Even if we go up to the Prem, the club will need to be mindful that further increases at this kind of level had to be overturned by clubs as succesful as Bolton because fans walked away.When Man City can't sell their allocation for a game at Wigan and the FA Cup Semi Finals don't sell out, you know something's wrong.

My expectation level regarding our performance and the quality of signings has increased in line with our prices.

[Bristol Boy]

Supporters are basically captive customers. Supporters will not choose to go elsewhere like Asda/ Tesco customers. If you look at private Companies that act as a monopoly (Water Companies being an obvious example, or rail Companies), or as a cartel (Drug Companies, Banks), the customer/ consumer gets taken for granted and prices are set to the maximum possible.

I read a quote today about excessive ticket prices generally in football that 'Clubs are exploiting loyalty'.

Whilst there is truth in that, there comes a point where people just say "NO".

Wigan, Bolton & Blackburn all had to reduce prices last season because people stopped going.At that point owners have a choice-put more of their own cash in, sell a business that may not look all that valuable (fewer customers) or reduce prices, create an atmosphere because 10/15,000 extra fans at £10 earns a great deal more than 10/15,000 empty seats at £100 a seat.......they eat more food, drink and buy more replica shirts as well!!

The only point of having a Chairman/Shareholders is that they put money in-What else are they for? We've got a highly paid Board of Directors to run the club!

[Bristol Boy]

I know in 1998/99 season a ticket in the ayteo for the season was only £235.

Up 60% in nine seasons-who thinks that's reasonable?

[Nibor]

Nobody who is against the price rises has actually quoted what they consider to be acceptable figures. What do you think acceptable figures would have been?

Mentioned it a few times but I think an across the board 20% rise to both STs and single match prices would have been about right, a healthy boost without damaging attendances or upsetting fans too much. I'd also like to have seen a 5% or so renewal reduction to give some semblance of rewarding fans who've put up with 8 years of league one. That would have meant renewing the most expensive ticket in the Dolman would have been near enough £400 for an adult.

I don't think that sort of rise would have put anyone off, even those stretched by it would have found the extra, and I think the extra sales would more than make up the difference as well as giving us a better atmosphere.

When the price increase is over the £100 mark it's like a psychological barrier, very offputting to anyone who is borderline on whether they can afford it and anyone who was considering signing up as a new ST holder. I know one guy from work who isn't from Bristol but went to a few games with his boy last season, he was near conversion and considering a ST until he saw the prices. No longer. My litle brother is not going to be as keen to come along to games when he has to hand over 30 notes for 90 minutes. I'm sure there are plenty in the same boat. We're also about one season away from hitting the £500 mark in some stands and that's another one of those barriers.

I just think they got the whole thing wrong, it might seem on here like a vocal minority but I've not spoken to one City fan in any of the pubs around my way who didn't feel ripped off by it. I don't think 20% would have given people the vaseline feeling.

[Bristol Boy]

I'm fairly sure at least 80% of current season ticket holders will renew.

That means that 20% won't which isn't great considering it's our first promotion in nine seasons.

I'm not sure about new season ticket holders, but would feel slightly let down if we didnt pull in 1500 at least.

That takes us to 7,580-That's less than last season

As you said, P O T D mostly comes down to how well we do on the pitch.

And the price and as you said yourself, there ain't many people who'll pay £28/30 very often-Certainly not the 40% who were POD last season although an increased away following may help out there.

If off to a flying start, we could actually see more fans taking up season ticket options, but more importantly P O T D will def increase.

Unless it's a terrific start then I don't think it will for Colchester on a Tuesday night in rainy Nov

But thats the positive.Poor start, and it could go desperately wrong.

Agreed and the positive ain't all that positive

Lets be honest though Brian, thats Bristol City for you!!!!!!!

Spot on, Sir!

[NickJ]

So going to the farm goes up 40% a year does it ?

So going to the cinema goes up 40% a year does it ?

With no recognition to loyalty ?

Let me put this into perspective ;

We aint customers and we aint consumers

We are supporters

Now, it seems to me that some people don't understand that, primarily beacause they may be in a lofted position and lost touch with that fact.

But what is patently clear to me is that Sexstone and Lansdowne have absolutely no clue as to the difference between a customer and a supporter.

Anyone that describes a football club as a business hasn't got a cat in hells chance of understanding the concept of a supporter.

The vast majority of people attending football in the 3rd division are supporters.

As I see it, Sexstone and Lansdown would like to attract more customers.

Customers - the right sort - will spend more than supporters.

Its all about egos.

[Chappers]

If you want a really negative thought, we now face a few years amongst the likes of Barnsley, Stoke, Plymouth, QPR, Hull etc in the mid-lower reaches of the table, and don't even have the chance of a Paint Pot trip to Wembley. Trouble is, that probably will be the reality of the Championship, treading water until relegation.

I really hope I am proved wrong!

[Tunley Legend]

If you want a really negative thought, we now face a few years amongst the likes of Barnsley, Stoke, Plymouth, QPR, Hull etc in the mid-lower reaches of the table, and don't even have the chance of a Paint Pot trip to Wembley. Trouble is, that probably will be the reality of the Championship, treading water until relegation.

I really hope I am proved wrong!

Well that is where Lansdown and Sextone stand or fall by the price increase. They have said that we had to raise prices so that we could go into the Championship to "compete" which to me means we should be at least holding our own reasonably comfortably this coming season and we should be looking to emulate the likes of Preston North End by steadily reaching the higher end of the table thereafter.

In the same way that supporters cannot expect League 1 pricing structures for Championship football I fully agree that if the Championship prices are at the "upper" end of the scale then the team has to be at the upper end of the scale pretty quickly too. I think Sextone's position becomes untenable eventually if this is not the case so I agree that a gamble is being taken. It may be that having significantly increased prices this season they may well have to freeze prices for the next couple of seasons. And lets hope we don't get relegated!!

But where the pricing reality kicks in even worse is if we should ever be "lucky" enough to reach the Premiership. What if we did "slightly better" than Colchester last season and had outrageous luck in the Pray Offs? Without 40,000 coming through the gate each week I do not think it is possible for a club like us compete in the Premiership given that the other 25-30,000 supported clubs are now well established with loads of cash coming in every year (that is the monster that has been created - best league in Europe, my ar$e it is). I agree with others that another similar 30% price hike could see 15,000 crowds for Premiership football with many people priced out altogether although I am not sure Mr Sextone has enough knowledge of his "customer base" (as he might refer to it) to realise that. Mind you they could market it as playing in three or four separate leagues all rolled into one!! In simple terms we would have to accept our fate like Watford have done and enjoy the season while it lasted.

[Andy082005]

So going to the farm goes up 40% a year does it ?

So going to the cinema goes up 40% a year does it ?

With no recognition to loyalty ?

Let me put this into perspective ;

We aint customers and we aint consumers

We are supporters

Now, it seems to me that some people don't understand that, primarily beacause they may be in a lofted position and lost touch with that fact.

But what is patently clear to me is that Sexstone and Lansdowne have absolutely no clue as to the difference between a customer and a supporter.

The sad fact is my friend, we are customers!! I'm only 26 but through the years Ive been watching football it has changed dramatically. The days of football being a working class sport are long gone, and thanks to the Sky money and Premiership and all the commerical boll**ks that go with it, this is very much a business....much more so then a sport.

Its a rare thing these days clubs doing something genuine for their fans. Some clubs literally cant do things for their fans, some clubs don't want to do things for their fans, as its all about money money money.

I work for Royal Mail, this company is changing massively. The days of providing a service are long gone as this company looks to make as much money as they can......screw the customers and getting their mail at a decent time of the day! Its very similar in football.....screw the fans and providing a good Saturday's enjoyment, lets make as much dough as possible!

Welcome to the money grabbing, greedy 21st century!

[Nibor]

But where the pricing reality kicks in even worse is if we should ever be "lucky" enough to reach the Premiership. What if we did "slightly better" than Colchester last season and had outrageous luck in the Pray Offs? Without 40,000 coming through the gate each week I do not think it is possible for a club like us compete in the Premiership given that the other 25-30,000 supported clubs are now well established with loads of cash coming in every year (that is the monster that has been created - best league in Europe, my ar$e it is).

This is the strange thing with the Premiership.

If you're paying £30 a seat, the difference between 20k and 40k is "only" about £10m.

When the TV money is over £30m, that's not as big as it sounds.

That means the playing field is surprisingly level for everyone except ManU and Arse with their huge stadiums and Chelsea and Liverpool with their rich backers.

I don't think it's something we'll have to worry about any time soon though.

[Martyn Hocking]

You also have to take into account that potd prices have been increased so much that, if you do intend going regularly then the overpriced S T purchase would have to be a must. Which could be why we've sold as many as 5k. Add to that the 1k new S T sales for the East End and 4k ain't so good. I saw Sexton in M&S the other day buying multi packs of underpants

Not true - if I attend 10 home games next season (which I will) I will pay £300 to sit in the best seats in the Dolman. A ST for the same seat is over £450 - I will continue to POD as I know I won't go to every home game from my base in Kent.

Well_red

[Martyn Hocking]

very few will pay £30 pay on the day unless it is a big game i know so many people who have said i'm not going to pay that to watch s'thorpe, c'chester, burnley etc and these are proper city fans who have followed city everywhere for years, the problem is that now they are alienating true city fans and once people find other interests it will be v. difficult to get them back, as a massive city fan from a massive working class city family i can assure everyone that they are pushing our loyalty to the absolute maximum

You've deliberately picked the worst teams in the div - loads of people (myself included) WILL pay £30 to see us against WBA, Cardiff, Charlton etc. £30 to see us against that lot looks cheap compared with paying £20 last year to watch us against Milwall.

Well_red