Not Good Enough

[Slave to the rhythm]

Was talking to dolls and robins today, and we were wondering how much on otib tonight would be negative. How bloody unusual. Johnson out. Board out. blah blah blah. some people must be working for the Evil Post. 90 minutes done folks. Jeeezuz!

I haven't read one post which says that Johnson and/or the board should go. All I've read are a few posts from people saying that we were lucky not to lose today (how many times did QPR hit the woodwork?) and we've still got areas which need addressing. That's not being negative, just being realistic.

[Liverpool 0 Bristol City 1]

I've got to be honest, I was a bit dubious when GJ was appointed as manager, and through the early part of this season - what with the Marcus Stewart debacle. But today has really cemented my feeling that he is a fantastic manager.

He has managed to improve a number of players in the team beyond all recognition, get rid of the unfocused, unprofessional riff-raff and create a real sense of professionalism and team spirit.

What we, as fans, now need to do is get behind him and the team as this is by far the most crucial period. We've got the Middlesbrough match to make as much noise as possible and show them our appreciation. I suggest whatever the result we need help the lads carry this winning attitude through to the next league match.

This is it now guys. One last push and we're there. :chant6ez: :chant6ez: :chant6ez: :chant6ez:

[bucksred]

I haven't read one post which says that Johnson and/or the board should go. All I've read are a few posts from people saying that we were lucky not to lose today (how many times did QPR hit the woodwork?) and we've still got areas which need addressing. That's not being negative, just being realistic.

What part of irony do you not understand.....

[Haster]

Well, I hate to say it but the performance was simply not good enough to stay in this league:

1) Trundle looked a yard of the pace

2) Back four in complete disarray

3) Hungarian centre back seems incapable of communicating with anyone (does he speak English?)

4) LJ looked out of his depth

We're going to leak goals like a west country flood defence at this rate, and Trundle looks incapable of replacing them at the other end.

I'd take 22nd right now if it was offered.

MOAN MOAN F?@KING MOAN

[Tunley Legend]

Well, I hate to say it but the performance was simply not good enough to stay in this league:

1) Trundle looked a yard of the pace

2) Back four in complete disarray

3) Hungarian centre back seems incapable of communicating with anyone (does he speak English?)

4) LJ looked out of his depth

We're going to leak goals like a west country flood defence at this rate, and Trundle looks incapable of replacing them at the other end.

I'd take 22nd right now if it was offered.

You are some supporter aren't you. What you are effectively saying (although I doubt you even realise it) is that unless the team perform well in all 46 matches then they are not good enough to stay up. It isn't going to happen. What we need to do is perform competently in around 25 matches and pick up 15 wins and 10 draws. If we can scrape some points in the other matches when we don't play so well (on your summary we already have 1) then we'll be OK. Given you know so much about how a whole football season will pan out after 90 minutes only why don't you start a seperate thread giving your predictions (1-24) for the Championship so we can all have a look in May and see what you really know? I will also answer the typical kind of knee-jerk post found too frequently on this forum:-

1) Trundle was quiet and up against a very good centre half. However, nearly created a goal for himself with some super footwork.

2) Orr was one of the best players on the pitch today, Carey did OK and Fontaine's one mistake in the 91st minute spoiled a good display. Vasko and McCallister need to improve but I'm sure they will.

3) How do you know what the communication was like? Were you out there?

4) Johnson certainly needs to influence the game more and stop trying all of these "Hollywood" passes which too often cheaply squandered possession in the second half and had us on the back foot. But to say he is "out of his depth" is knee jerk posting at it's worst.

And to completely destroy your own credibility you then babble on about wanting to finish 22nd!!

[DOLMANDAN]

Well, I hate to say it but the performance was simply not good enough to stay in this league:

1) Trundle looked a yard of the pace

2) Back four in complete disarray

3) Hungarian centre back seems incapable of communicating with anyone (does he speak English?)

4) LJ looked out of his depth

We're going to leak goals like a west country flood defence at this rate, and Trundle looks incapable of replacing them at the other end.

I'd take 22nd right now if it was offered.

DISAGREE TOTALY Trundle was marked out marked man from the first touch

Vas was solid and will improve

lj was him ususall selfconfident and a good passer of the ball or was i watching a different game

[Tunley Legend]

There is no place on a forum for this sort of comment. I hope you delete or offer a full apology. Yes the sentiments were extreme, but GJ will be pretty close to those sentiments on Monday. Some people need to learn some new ideas. In sport, any sport, second means nothing. GJ will not be studying the good moves of the game, he will focus on the errors, the problems. That is how you win. GJ will look at every error, mis placed pass, bad tackle, missed header. That is what you do when you work in sport. It is not being negative, it is the pursuit of excellence. Our biggest critic is GJ. Do any of you thing he is sat at home tonight thinking what a great game, and how we were unlucky.

Of course he won't be. And I bet he doesn't slaughter the players in the typical OTIB knee jerk kind of way either.

"Trundle, you're fat, slow and useless"

"Vasko, learn to speak English you idiot"

"Lads, you were rubbish and you'll never stay up playing like that"

"Back four - you're all over the place"

That is the sort of garbage you will hear from the Manager of the local pub team. I am sure any criticism that comes from Johnson will be firm but it will also be RELEVANT and CONSTRUCTIVE.

[DOLMANDAN]

Die you numpty. :noexpression:

no

re tract the comment or forever be ####ed

[dezgimed]

Talking B O L L O C K S...... the lads give it the best poss.

Cant be bothered to read all the usual crap.

But this quote sums up the inital post.

Thought we gave it all, were unlucky not to win!

[scumbag]

Well, I hate to say it but the performance was simply not good enough to stay in this league:

1) Trundle looked a yard of the pace

2) Back four in complete disarray

3) Hungarian centre back seems incapable of communicating with anyone (does he speak English?)

4) LJ looked out of his depth

We're going to leak goals like a west country flood defence at this rate, and Trundle looks incapable of replacing them at the other end.

I'd take 22nd right now if it was offered.

I'd make a sensible reply, but your entire post is a complete load of tosh!

[no_merde]

I haven't read one post which says that Johnson and/or the board should go. All I've read are a few posts from people saying that we were lucky not to lose today (how many times did QPR hit the woodwork?) and we've still got areas which need addressing. That's not being negative, just being realistic.

Thank you. That's all I was doing - just putting forward a point of view.

And what do I get from OTIB? Death threats, told to **** off, support the Gas etc.

Sure, you may disagree with what I say, but I certainly didn't threaten to kill anyone.

###### typical of this place, speak any other point of view that isn't the correct one and people want to kill you.

[no_merde]

Last season was different - the team had done the hard work, and we needed to get behind them.

This season there's a lot of work to do by the team.

Remember, no matter how much you want to support the team, you can't polish a turd.

[BigTone]

Remember, no matter how much you want to support the team, you can't polish a turd.

Sunderland showed last year that in fact you can.

However, lets give the team a few games and see if we can get even a slight sheen.

[Spud55]

Thank you. That's all I was doing - just putting forward a point of view.

And what do I get from OTIB? Death threats, told to **** off, support the Gas etc.

Sure, you may disagree with what I say, but I certainly didn't threaten to kill anyone.

###### typical of this place, speak any other point of view that isn't the correct one and people want to kill you.

You were, but it was a point of view based on little to no evidence, if you were saying Sunderland are going to get into Europe i'd think you were talking rubbish, same as basing our entire season on one game, i'm sorry but if you make a post like that then expect to get slaughtered because no matter how valid your poitns are for the game in question it's the fact that you have decided we are going to be relegated on one performance is frankly ludicrous. Make a stupid post and you will get stupid replys.

If you'd left all the needless negativity the OMg we're going to get relegated we are shit, then the replys would have been totaly different, as in many ways i agree with your points, also mabye a bit of balance is a good idea, sit there and point out 4 bad points of one game while ignoring everything else you are going to get jumped on and rightly so, present a completely inbalanced argument and the more imbalanced on here will reply to it.

I agree with your four points on the whole,

1) Trundle was a yard off the pace, but then he hasn't had much of a pre-season as he didn't play much for the swans and only played a couple of games for us, so it's going to take him a bit of time to get match sharpness and to gel with the side, so i agree but to say he's not going to get goals is frankly idiotic IMO.

2) There were weaknesses in the defence but for 45 minutes QPR didn't really have much of a sniff apart from the goal which really shouldn't have stood, in the second half they wern't helped by the fact that due to Mcindoe and Wilson being switched there was no outlet for the defence so they were just inviting pressure onto themselfs, a tactical mistake by GJ (assuming it was him, but as Mcindoe was obviously uncomfortable on the right i'd guess it wasn't something that he and wilson decided to do) IMO

3) not sure how you can judge that, he's barely played a game so it's probably just that they aren't used to playing together.

4) LJ didn't have the best of games for me, he looked Ok but was trying to be too clever a lot of the time and should have taken a leaf out of Elliot's book and kept it simple.

How about highlighting some of the good points, instead of just being negative ?

1) although obviously not there yet Trundle showed some great skill's and showed flashes of his undoubted ability, a quiet but in my book by no means poor debut.

2) Marvin Elliot was top notch IMO was the best player on the park, put himself about, kept it simple didn't give the ball away much, would love to see how he would fare with nobes next to him.

3) Willson looked good on the right in the first 45, lookes easily capable of making the step up and making it difficult for Sproule to walk into the side.

4) Bradley Orr looked solid at right back, he's not the best going forward but he's solid defensively and managed to not get beaten often.

5) Murray looked good playing upfront, took his goal very well.

6) we didn't lose, would have bee nice to get a win but getting off the mark was the most important for me.

Overall for me it just looked a little rusty, some weaknesses in the defence which will be adressed by Vasko playing more games or Fontaine coming in until McCombe comes back.

Improvements need to be made but we have a fair few new players wo it will take a bit of time fr them to gel. Overall i'd have taken a draw before the game so a not too dissapointed with the result.

[Gerry Gows' Tash]

I though the defence looked shaky at times, although I think it's an organisational/communication thing rather than a fundamental problem with the players. Bear in mind that we are a arguably a few first choiceers light and that we had new players, that was the first time that 11 has played together competitively.

On the other hand they scored 2, hit the post and the bar and we could have lost, but we didn't. Considering it was our first game at a new level I though we held our own and we could equally easily have won, if it wasn't for our old achilles heel, the set piece letting us down. Agree that Trundle looked slow, that's because he's not a pace player, and because he was man marked. I think he's the sort of player who will look off the pace the whole game and then score the winner in the last minute. Don't understand the comment about LJ, thought he looked class, and will be more of an asset in theis division that he was in our old one.

[no_merde]

You were........Improvements need to be made but we have a fair few new players wo it will take a bit of time fr them to gel. Overall i'd have taken a draw before the game so a not too dissapointed with the result.

Thanks for a considered response. Good critique on what I said.

I think I may have over done it yesterday - a few too many 'iders.

I take back what I said about LJ - I was just extremely fustrated we didn't take the three points and I think that overflowed a bit.

I do believe LT was off the pace when he really needed to stamp his authourity on the game and I think the back four looked ropey - but as everyone says I'm sure they'll sort it out over the next ten games :noexpression:

[Midge]

Message to all fans

JUST ENJOY IT

Their are going to be no easy games this year,and remember we are the newcomers,just be grateful that we are seeing games against QPR and not Rotherham.

We could've won 3-0 yesterday and someone would've said that we could have played better.

[Chappers]

Well said NoMerde. Now, is Rocky prepared to make a full apology.

[Guest]

Message to all fans

JUST ENJOY IT

Their are going to be no easy games this year,and remember we are the newcomers,just be grateful that we are seeing games against QPR and not Rotherham.

We could've won 3-0 yesterday and someone would've said that we could have played better.

we could also of lost 3-0 moaning is fine if you must but after one game

[Loderingo]

i think people are also being harsh in reply here. Whilst it is far too early to predict suddenly we would be happy with 4th from bottom it is also fair to say

1) Trundle had a quiet game. That was the manager, not me. That is GJ saying he was not at the races. Remember he was signed to effect games. Today he did not. in another game, with other tactics etc. he may. His game is not playing off flick ons or high balls.

2) The defence was in a mess, that is why the manager subbed a player. It was better in the second half, but it was also Fontaines player who scored their second (GJ said). We were not sorted at the back, we knew that from pre season. Carey and Orr got the concept, it needs determination and total concentration. This was our first game of the season against better players. I see no problem in saying how it was, it is not being negative, and if anyone thinks the manger will be happy about the defence tonight then wake up.

3) LJ out of his depth, no , certain aspects of his game were as ever excellent. But you need to look at more than goals and few great passes. He left Elliot (who did a great job) to cover far too much ground. LJ will need to work much harder on and off (the bit fans on here just do not ever understand) the ball. He sat too deep too often, leaving Rowlands far too much space , or should I say, leaving Elliot far too much space, and too many players to cover.

It was a great game to watch, with many positives, but, and why people on here have to be either totally positive or totally negative I do not know, but there were also areas of required and essential improvement. GJ is a top quality manager, and will be the biggest self critic of the lot. Today was entertainment, but also a lesson, and one we will , under GJ learn very quickly.

A very sensible post Billy. What are you doing on this forum?

[Seend Red]

I thought, at times, LJ looked head and shoulders above others on the pitch in terms of intelligence on the ball.

Some people can't see passed the "Daddy's boy favourite" bit can they?

Far be it from me to disagree with you mate but I thought Johnson was poor yesterday. Gave the ball away on numerous occasions which for LJ was unusual and put the back four under unnecessary pressure. I thought Marvin Elliott stole the show in midfield with Brian Wilson not far behind.

Over all not a bad start to the season just really disapointing to conceed two really soft goals, Basso hesitated for the first and we were caught sleeping for the second.

Should of won really but not to worry still 135 points to play for!!

[Tunley Legend]

Far be it from me to disagree with you mate but I thought Johnson was poor yesterday. Gave the ball away on numerous occasions which for LJ was unusual and put the back four under unnecessary pressure. I thought Marvin Elliott stole the show in midfield with Brian Wilson not far behind.

Over all not a bad start to the season just really disapointing to conceed two really soft goals, Basso hesitated for the first and we were caught sleeping for the second.

Should of won really but not to worry still 135 points to play for!!

I agree with you SEEND. At times Johnson tried the fancy dan "Hollywood" pass and we were under serious pressure because of it. From what I saw yesterday there are times in Championship football when you just need to keep simple possession to take the sting out of the game (this will be important away from home). If we keep giving the ball away like we did at times yesterday then we WILL get punished.

However, yesterday was a learning experience for many players, LJ included, but you cannot learn the lesson until you have taken the lesson. That is hopefully what happened yesterday for many of our more inexperienced (at Championship level) players.

[pdgifford64]

Well, I hate to say it but the performance was simply not good enough to stay in this league:

1) Trundle looked a yard of the pace

2) Back four in complete disarray

3) Hungarian centre back seems incapable of communicating with anyone (does he speak English?)

4) LJ looked out of his depth

We're going to leak goals like a west country flood defence at this rate, and Trundle looks incapable of replacing them at the other end.

I'd take 22nd right now if it was offered.

Drove straight to Cambridge for a family do after the match, just got back and my first look at the Forum. Imagine my surprise.....not. Totally disagree with the general point of your thread. Yes Trundle didn`t quite look up to speed, yet still managed to treat us with some great touches, almost a magic LT moment in the 2nd half and held the ball up better that anyone else i saw up ront for us last season. The lay offs didn`t always come off but thats only going to come in time when a partnership is established.

The back four did not look in dissarray to me, we paid the price of not concentrating and thats a harsh lesson.

I wonder what it will take for some of you people. Man Utd held at home today by Reading, i wonder how many of their fans are online predicting a trophyless season ahead. It`s pathetic. End of.

PDG

[downendcity]

Drove straight to Cambridge for a family do after the match, just got back and my first look at the Forum. Imagine my surprise.....not. Totally disagree with the general point of your thread. Yes Trundle didn`t quite look up to speed, yet still managed to treat us with some great touches, almost a magic LT moment in the 2nd half and held the ball up better that anyone else i saw up ront for us last season. The lay offs didn`t always come off but thats only going to come in time when a partnership is established.

The back four did not look in dissarray to me, we paid the price of not concentrating and thats a harsh lesson.

I wonder what it will take for some of you people. Man Utd held at home today by Reading, i wonder how many of their fans are online predicting a trophyless season ahead. It`s pathetic. End of.

PDG

Your right there PDG - and 10 man Reading too.

Just checked the Man U forum. There's a post from OldTraffordYate saying that this will be a long trophyless season cause Ferguson has failed to buy a big target man!

[pdgifford64]

Your right there PDG - and 10 man Reading too.

Just checked the Man U forum. There's a post from OldTraffordYate saying that this will be a long trophyless season cause Ferguson has failed to buy a big target man!

PDG

[bucksred]

Cant be bothered to read all the usual crap.

But this quote sums up the inital post.

Thought we gave it all, were unlucky not to win!

Had we kept concentration better, we would have. soft time to give goals away. sort that out, and we'll quickly improve. how many times has that 11 played together for the full 90, in a competitive match?

[BITW]

Well, I hate to say it but the performance was simply not good enough to stay in this league:

1) Trundle looked a yard of the pace

2) Back four in complete disarray

3) Hungarian centre back seems incapable of communicating with anyone (does he speak English?)

4) LJ looked out of his depth

We're going to leak goals like a west country flood defence at this rate, and Trundle looks incapable of replacing them at the other end.

I'd take 22nd right now if it was offered.

why does everyone have something bad to say. ok it wasnt the best performance but remember all of this is based on ONE game. you might have a point about the performance but to be honest the effort was there and remember this is a huge step up from league 1. Give em a chance!!!

[giles_23_bcfc]

why does everyone have something bad to say. ok it wasnt the best performance but remember all of this is based on ONE game. you might have a point about the performance but to be honest the effort was there and remember this is a huge step up from league 1. Give em a chance!!!

I thought we played well saturday. I certainly don't think we looked out of our depth against them. Naturally it wont be the same agaisnt teams like Charlton, Wolves, West Brom and a couple others but we've just gotta enjoy it. We've waited a full decade to get to the championship, and i for one don't want us to go back down and spend another decade in league 1!

People are entitled to their opinion but the amount of moaning that's been on here since the final whistle is awful. I also couldnt believe i heard people booing the team off at the final whistle after the performance they put in.

There's 45 games to go yet! ! game doesnt make a season, especially not the first game of the season!

[downendcity]

I thought we played well saturday. I certainly don't think we looked out of our depth against them. Naturally it wont be the same agaisnt teams like Charlton, Wolves, West Brom and a couple others but we've just gotta enjoy it. We've waited a full decade to get to the championship, and i for one don't want us to go back down and spend another decade in league 1!

People are entitled to their opinion but the amount of moaning that's been on here since the final whistle is awful. I also couldnt believe i heard people booing the team off at the final whistle after the performance they put in.

There's 45 games to go yet! ! game doesnt make a season, especially not the first game of the season!

Charlton spent loads of money in the close season and only struggled to a draw against Scunny. Wolves equelly shelled out big money and they lost at home. If our fans are whinging then Wolves and Charlton fans must be suicidal just now!

One of the problems is that for the last 4/5 seasons we have become used to winning the majority of our games and in a way have come to expect this ,as we were always among the teams most fancied for promotion. Expectation has been raised with some new signings, but we are now a smallish fish in a much bigger pond. I am pretty certain that we will struggle against the top teams, even at home, but I hope we are competitive through the season and retain our status somewhere midtable. We don't yet know which of our div 1 players can make the step up to this level, but if we consolidate I hope that the squad will have improved, and be improved so that with a more experienced and better squad we can raise our game next season.

Not happy clappy, not maoning and groaning - hopefully pretty realistic.

[Nibor]

I thought we played well saturday. I certainly don't think we looked out of our depth against them. Naturally it wont be the same agaisnt teams like Charlton, Wolves, West Brom and a couple others but we've just gotta enjoy it. We've waited a full decade to get to the championship, and i for one don't want us to go back down and spend another decade in league 1!

People are entitled to their opinion but the amount of moaning that's been on here since the final whistle is awful. I also couldnt believe i heard people booing the team off at the final whistle after the performance they put in.

There's 45 games to go yet! ! game doesnt make a season, especially not the first game of the season!

Pretty sure any booing was directed at the officials.

People are always going to discuss games on here and there will always be more discussion about negative things because that's the only bit people argue about.

There's not alot else to say about Elliott for example other than he had a great game.