Vasko Again On Tuesday ?

[andy g]

I know a lot of people have got it in for the Hungarian defender already, but isnt tomorrow night a good chance to help him "bed in" ?

He's come into the squad at the last minute and hasnt had chance to build up any understanding with Carey and the others, so he's bound to be struggling at first - but thats ONLY going to improve if he gets to play in the first team.

I think you either you ditch him altogether because he hasnt had chance to settle in (and in that case, why bother to bring him here at all ?) or you accept that he's only going to get better with practice and give him games in less meaningful games like the Cocacola cup.

And one more thing - i don't think there is anything wrong with his heading ability, in fact if you look at the stats, he did very well on saturday... I was keeping a count of headers won/lost (i thought this argument might come up again !) and he won 10/14 headers. And i didnt count the one in front of the williams which he headed away without any challenge.

That seems like a pretty healthy ratio to me, and if he is in the side to do McCombes heading for him, i think he's off to a good start.

[CiderHider]

Only a select few of drooling tards have it in for him, why this is i can't explain, must be a brain cell deficiency thing.

[howey_ducky]

i agree mate, it will be a good chance for him to hopefully play aq full 90 minutes and get used to the pace of the english game. he needs games to build his confidence. I can see him becomming a good addition to the squad. He's looked ok so far, just made a couple of mistakes which at championship level need to be cut out because they get punished more often than not. i've still got confidence in the bloke.

[bh_red]

exactly what I said to a mate after he went off on saturday, he's come to the club late in pre-season and has been expected to hit the ground running, it's hard enough for a player such as trundle who has only been playing across the water, but for a player to come into a new country with a total different style of football it's expecting alot for him to strike up an instant partnership, Gary obviously think he has ability and Brentford is the perfect time for him to get a good run out for 90mins with less pressure than a league match, hopefully though he will get to play with Carey who can only help adapt his game to english football.

[bcfc_kieran]

Yea i agree tomorrows game would be a gd game for him to try n bed in but i think for saturday i think keogh should start.

[Ralph Milne]

Yea i agree tomorrows game would be a gd game for him to try n bed in but i think for saturday i think keogh should start.

he is a big bloke so why is he so poor in the air? i did not see him win one header that he contested, 10 times worse than seebok from what i have seen so far

[bcfc_kieran]

Nerves? New to the english games? New team mates? Give him a chance to setle but while he does tht keogh should come in.

[GrahamC]

I must admit after Bournemouth I thought Brentford made far more sense for him to start than on Saturday.

As GJ is hinting at other changes it may be that Louis gets a rest, after all, he is going to be vital this season and took a knock against QPR.

Games for one or two others, including Murray and Russell, I expect.

[Robbored]

I said after Saturdays game that it would have been better for Vasko to make his debut in a lower profile game against 'weaker' opposition. I was surprised that he started ahead of Keogh/Fontaine against QPR.That said Johnosn had been watching him all week in training and must have felt he was ready - just goes to show how managers don't always get it right.

Fair play to Johnson for subbing him at half-time.

[BCFC Grim]

he is a big bloke so why is he so poor in the air? i did not see him win one header that he contested, 10 times worse than seebok from what i have seen so far

Well you were not paying attention then, he won a few headers, but don't let facts get in the way of your opinion.

[Dolman Block B]

I know a lot of people have got it in for the Hungarian defender already, but isnt tomorrow night a good chance to help him "bed in" ?

He's come into the squad at the last minute and hasnt had chance to build up any understanding with Carey and the others, so he's bound to be struggling at first - but thats ONLY going to improve if he gets to play in the first team.

I think you either you ditch him altogether because he hasnt had chance to settle in (and in that case, why bother to bring him here at all ?) or you accept that he's only going to get better with practice and give him games in less meaningful games like the Cocacola cup.

And one more thing - i don't think there is anything wrong with his heading ability, in fact if you look at the stats, he did very well on saturday... I was keeping a count of headers won/lost (i thought this argument might come up again !) and he won 10/14 headers. And i didnt count the one in front of the williams which he headed away without any challenge.

That seems like a pretty healthy ratio to me, and if he is in the side to do McCombes heading for him, i think he's off to a good start.

Def think GJ will play him Andy.

Sure the lad will come through, and be a great asset for the club

[Bristol Boy]

I haven't seen or read anyone who "has it in for him."

I have read that he didn't perform well against Bmth & QPR......in fact I wrote that and it's true.

It isn't a case of having it in for him, it's a case of feeling that, on what I've seen and current form, he's about our fifth choice.

Whilst taking what you say on board, I disagree about the importance of the Brentford game.Winning may get us a plum draw against a top Premier Club and ensure the club another massive pay day.

Secondly, winning is always good for confidence and can you imagine what would happen if he does play and has a mare against a League 2 side who, after all, will probably play a very direct game.

Thirdly, taking your stance and that of some others on here, why have you "got in in for" Keogh & Fontaine.

Sides should always be picked on ability and we haven't yet reached the stage of being able to put the reserves out in fixtures like this.Other players also need games and to settle in and GJ needs to do some more planning regarding shape & tactics.I'd rather that they were addressed against Brentford than Blackpool & S****horpe, it's true but that should be on the basis of getting our best available XI on the field and in the right shape in advance of our next two league games.

GJ had said that he's going to make some changes and Skuse, Betsy, Jevons, Keogh & Weale may all get a run out, not to mention Russell who also didn't get any football Saturday.

[Ralph Milne]

Well you were not paying attention then, he won a few headers, but don't let facts get in the way of your opinion.

obviously you weren't at the game he was useless in the air

[howey_ducky]

I haven't seen or read anyone who "has it in for him."

I have read that he didn't perform well against Bmth & QPR......in fact I wrote that and it's true.

It isn't a case of having it in for him, it's a case of feeling that, on what I've seen and current form, he's about our fifth choice.

Whilst taking what you say on board, I disagree about the importance of the Brentford game.Winning may get us a plum draw against a top Premier Club and ensure the club another massive pay day.

Secondly, winning is always good for confidence and can you imagine what would happen if he does play and has a mare against a League 2 side who, after all, will probably play a very direct game.

Thirdly, taking your stance and that of some others on here, why have you "got in in for" Keogh & Fontaine.

Sides should always be picked on ability and we haven't yet reached the stage of being able to put the reserves out in fixtures like this.Other players also need games and to settle in and GJ needs to do some more planning regarding shape & tactics.I'd rather that they were addressed against Brentford than Blackpool & S****horpe, it's true but that should be on the basis of getting our best available XI on the field and in the right shape in advance of our next two league games.

GJ had said that he's going to make some changes and Skuse, Betsy, Jevons, Keogh & Weale may all get a run out, not to mention Russell who also didn't get any football Saturday.

didn't perform well? that sums it up mate. a few of us are commenting that he didn't perform badly, in fact he won most of his headers in both games and has only made one or two mistakes. i'd say he's performed ok so far. and there are no posts on here about keogh or fontaine being doubted so where's your arguement? once again it seems you're just trying to be clever to impress............ god knows who.

[BCFC Grim]

i was, you said you didn't see him win one ball in the air, well he did, so your talking bull. Where did i state that he wasn't useless? I merely stated that he won a few headers.

[Bristol Boy]

I must admit after Bournemouth I thought Brentford made far more sense for him to start than on Saturday.

As GJ is hinting at other changes it may be that Louis gets a rest, after all, he is going to be vital this season and took a knock against QPR.

Games for one or two others, including Murray and Russell, I expect.

There could be an opportunity for a tactical experiment like Murray in the Noble role in a 4-4-1-1 or perhaps 4-5-1 in advance of Blackpool & S****horpe.Even with JMW on loan we'll have at least four genuine wide players when Sproule's available and we'll need to utilise them.......even if we dodn't sign said pacey forward!

Whatever XI we field should, within reason, be good enough to beat Brentford............however that's what Man Utd thought at Southend last season and what we thought at FGR.Defeats knock confidence and we need to win this.

[Bristol Boy]

didn't perform well?

No

that sums it up mate. a few of us are commenting that he didn't perform badly, in fact he won most of his headers in both games and has only made one or two mistakes.

Resulting in three goals being conceeded.He nearly scored an own goal which, in any event lead to one of Bmths.Now, imagine you're RK or LF and not even in the team or squad, what do you think that'll do for their morale??

i'd say he's performed ok so far.

Then you're not setting very high standards. Why did GJ sub him on Saturday?

[italian dave]

obviously you weren't at the game he was useless in the air

I was at the game and I thought he was Ok in the air.

For goodness sake lets not have another exagerated slagging off of our own players.

You don't get to be a Hungarian international if you're "useless". Simple as that.

He had an average start, but as has been said above its his first 45 minutes of English football.

I'm not actually that worried about any of our defence in the air - its on the ground that worries me more, and that includes McCombe. We know from last season that we can win most high balls that are pumped up the middle, but as we saw on Saturday teams are a lot stronger on the ground in this division. I believe that GJ cited his reading of QPRs diagonal passing as the reason for taking Vasko off - nothing to do with his heading.

[andy g]

he is a big bloke so why is he so poor in the air? i did not see him win one header that he contested, 10 times worse than seebok from what i have seen so far

What ?!! Next time he plays, take the chance to actually watch what he does and count the number of headers he wins.

I think you'll be surprised.

[Bristol Boy]

What ?!! Next time he plays, take the chance to actually watch what he does and count the number of headers he wins.

I think you'll be surprised.

I think he'll impress in the opposition box first as he seems to relish attacking the ball in that penalty area.

I'm all for giving the lad a chance as I've said but we can't go on needing to score three times to win a game.

[Henry]

I'm all for giving the lad a chance as I've said but we can't go on needing to score three times to win a game.

The two goal we conceded had nothing to do with Vasko, so the above quote is pretty much pointless

[Ralph Milne]

What ?!! Next time he plays, take the chance to actually watch what he does and count the number of headers he wins.

I think you'll be surprised.

Well obviously GJ agreed otherwise why else take him off at half time?

[GrahamC]

[

The two goal we conceded had nothing to do with Vasko, so the above quote is pretty much pointless

The second clearly didn't, but how can you say that about the first? He was outstrengthed by Blackstock who therefore had a clear run on goal and went on to put it into the net.

GJ had clearly seen enough of him by HT so took him off.

[Redtucks]

Well obviously GJ agreed otherwise why else take him off at half time?

As mentioned above:

"GJ cited his reading of QPRs diagonal passing as the reason for taking Vasko off - nothing to do with his heading."

[thankgodfortinnion]

I am not saying he is as good but many slated Vidic when he arrived............look at him now!

[andy g]

It would take me forever to reply to all of that, so I'll just have one more go at this....

I don't think Vaskos problem is a lack of ability - even though some people seem to have missed it, he won a lot of headers on saturday.

GJ wants to play someone alongside Carey who will win headers (in other words someone who will do McCombes job) I believe this is why Vasko has been picked ahead of Fontaine and Keogh - why else play your untried centre half ahead of players who have been at the club longer ?

Vaskos problem (and the defence's problem in the first half) was a lack of communication. This is only going to improve if Vasko plays alongside Carey and the others. its not going to improve by going out on loan with a completely different set of players. So, if Vasko is the player most able to replace McCombe as a ball-winning centre half, then he has to keep playing.

And while it would be good to progress in the cocacola cup, its very clearly the least important competition we're involved in. So it has to be the best time to take risks.

Of course, we've lucky to have a squad with some really good centre halves. I thought Fontaine did really well when he came on at the weekend and Keogh was brilliant when he got into the side last season. And hopefully McCombe will be back soon and he'll reclaim his place in the side. And whoever plays tomorrow night will get my support.

But GJ has picked Vasko for a reason, and I think he needs to be given a chance.

[Mad Cyril]

But GJ has picked Vasko for a reason, and I think he needs to be given a chance.

Without the comfort of hindsight, check the logic -

1) McCombe not available

2) QPR have some gurt big uns up front

3) Vasko is a tall lad, who wins plenty in the air

4) The substitution law is one any team can use to their advantage once the have seen the pattern of play develop

Conclusion - right decisions made, both to start Vasko, and to sub him. No problem, no enquiry necessary. Next.

[BITW]

I was at the game and I thought he was Ok in the air.

For goodness sake lets not have another exagerated slagging off of our own players.

You don't get to be a Hungarian international if you're "useless". Simple as that.

He had an average start, but as has been said above its his first 45 minutes of English football.

I'm not actually that worried about any of our defence in the air - its on the ground that worries me more, and that includes McCombe. We know from last season that we can win most high balls that are pumped up the middle, but as we saw on Saturday teams are a lot stronger on the ground in this division. I believe that GJ cited his reading of QPRs diagonal passing as the reason for taking Vasko off - nothing to do with his heading.

i agree

I'm not saying i've watched a load of hungarian football, but I'm guessing the pace of the game over there is a hell of a lot slower than it is over here. give him a chance! let him get used to the tempo of english football and he might show us all that he is actually a decent player. maybe he wont, but i wouldnt be surprised if he turned out to be a lot better than we have seen so far. he needs time to adapt.

[Bristol Boy]

I'm all for giving the lad a chance as I've said but we can't go on needing to score three times to win a game.

The two goal we conceded had nothing to do with Vasko, so the above quote is pretty much pointless

The first goal on Saturday was down to Vasko and both of the goals against Bmth were partly down to him-Get your facts straight.I'll grant you he wasn't involved in QPR's second equaliser because he'd already been subbed.Pretty pointless reply

[Bristol Boy]

As mentioned above:

"GJ cited his reading of QPRs diagonal passing as the reason for taking Vasko off - nothing to do with his heading."

OK-Let's examine that:

The goal that we conceeded that was Vasko's fault was from a more or less straight chip down the middle-Bread & Butter for a 6' 5" bloke.GJ can't come out and say "Tomas was playing like a **** so I took him off" The Bmth goals were also bog standard crosses. As I've said in both reviews I'm perfectly happy for him to settle in but we also need to be 100% fair to the two lads that were a big part of our success last season.It's a point I've made and nobody has chosen to address

I am not saying he is as good but many slated Vidic when he arrived............look at him now!

Spot On and I made that point myself-Then again Julian Watts & Thompson were criticised early door and turned out to be entirely crap in the long term so it cuts both ways

It would take me forever to reply to all of that, so I'll just have one more go at this....

Well done for prompting the debate Andy.

I don't think Vaskos problem is a lack of ability - even though some people seem to have missed it, he won a lot of headers on saturday.

I don't think he's dominant and tough enough.Neither do I think he's better than Keogh or Fontaine-certainly not McCombe or Carey, so the question must be asked, if we are, as SL & GJ said, only signing better players than we have, why have we signed him?

GJ wants to play someone alongside Carey who will win headers (in other words someone who will do McCombes job) I believe this is why Vasko has been picked ahead of Fontaine and Keogh - why else play your untried centre half ahead of players who have been at the club longer?

Yes but he doesn't do that on what I've seen.

Vaskos problem (and the defence's problem in the first half) was a lack of communication. This is only going to improve if Vasko plays alongside Carey and the others. its not going to improve by going out on loan with a completely different set of players.

What disproves that is that he was subbed, Andy.Are we going to do that every week?

So, if Vasko is the player most able to replace McCombe as a ball-winning centre half, then he has to keep playing.

Couldn't agree more-if that's what he does-but I can't see that, that's true.

And while it would be good to progress in the cocacola cup, its very clearly the least important competition we're involved in. So it has to be the best time to take risks.

Depends on the nature of the risk and the reward associated with it coming off

Of course, we've lucky to have a squad with some really good centre halves. I thought Fontaine did really well when he came on at the weekend and Keogh was brilliant when he got into the side last season. And hopefully McCombe will be back soon and he'll reclaim his place in the side. And whoever plays tomorrow night will get my support.

Quite correct

But GJ has picked Vasko for a reason, and I think he needs to be given a chance.

GJ's record with loans hasn't been great and managers pick players for all kinds of reasons.For the record, I think Keogh's been hard done by in all this.

Without the comfort of hindsight, check the logic -

1) McCombe not available

Yes

2) QPR have some gurt big uns up front.

I thought the bigger un came on as as sub?

3) Vasko is a tall lad, who wins plenty in the air.

Doesn't dominate I'm afraid and lacks strength which is odd for a bloke his size so it could be a genuine lack of aggression.

4) The substitution law is one any team can use to their advantage once the have seen the pattern of play develop.

Agreed

Conclusion - right decisions made, both to start Vasko, and to sub him.

Not as simple as that but GJ did well to sub him, I'll agree.

No problem, no enquiry necessary. Next.

There has been a problem in the two games Vasko's played and before that in pre-season and it needs to be addressed,particularly if McCombes injury is long term.