Bristol Boy Posted March 28, 2004 Report Share Posted March 28, 2004 How clappy happy is that and no, I haven't actually changed my mind about promotion, however: Leaving aside the players listed as First Team who we haven't seen start a League Match. * Under Contract TO STAY (12) Phillips* Doherty* Hill Wilkshire* BrownA Goodfellow* Murray* Coles* Amaankwah* Woodman* Fortune* Lita* TO LEAVE (11) Stowell Carey Bell Butler* Burnell Peacock Miller* Tinnion Matthews Roberts Brown M To be honest, one or two of the retained are borderline, in terms of their ability, pace and fitness, to play in Div 1 week in and week out. I haven't seen enough of Rougier & Caskey to decide. I'm afraid that strikers who can't score in Div 2 ain't going to cut it in Div 1. Just look at the strikers at even the bottom clubs in Div like Robbie Blake at Burnley or Paul Peschisolido at Derby, King & Johnson at Forest, and you'll see that, never mind the top eight or nine clubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bemmyred Posted March 28, 2004 Report Share Posted March 28, 2004 Division 1 is quaking in its boots !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Champagne Football Posted March 28, 2004 Report Share Posted March 28, 2004 I hate to say this but I pretty much agree with you. Deadwood needs clearing, this includes players like Roberts, Tinnion (if improvement on the past few games aren't seen) and Burnell. They must be on pretty decent wages and for the amount of contribution they make it just isn't justified. Out of your let offs list I would like to keep Marvin Brown, he can't have that big of a wage and has undoubted talent he just needs his chance! But other than him I can't see many others who we should keep if we get promoted. If we are still in Div 2 next season we should definantly offer Carey, Bell and Tinnion 1 year contracts because they could all provide invaluable cover. They would of course be on much reduced wages to enable more quality players to come in, from elsewhere or the reserves. I can't argue at all with your retained list. This post will come up as controversial but it highlights the reality. The team we have simply isn't good enough for division one and we can't keep certain players just because we like them. We need to keep players who can cut it and add players who can improve the quality of the squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cider red Posted March 28, 2004 Report Share Posted March 28, 2004 I think on your to leave list we should keep roberts , tinnion , miller (i cant beleive you dont think he's good enough) and carey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bootylicious Posted March 28, 2004 Report Share Posted March 28, 2004 I think on your to leave list we should keep roberts , tinnion , miller (i cant beleive you dont think he's good enough) and carey. I think whether Tins plays next season will be down to whether he feels he can cope with another season. I think it will be harder for him if we get promoted though. To be fair, Roberts hasnt really done anything this season (not entirely down to him i know) and if you cant cut it in division two consistantly, you're not going to do it in division one! You might see him going to a team whose fans actually get behind him (he is a confidence player) , which we could regret. Carey is an average division two player, so i can imagine him getting battered in the first! Miller has undoubted potential and, with the right manager behind him, I'm sure we will see the best of him in the next few years. Id keep him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nester Posted March 28, 2004 Report Share Posted March 28, 2004 hmmm ... is it the players or the team that will or will not hack it in Div 1? I don't remember Rotherham having that many stars (and probably a smaller budget than us), they just played like a great team. Most of your 'to leave 11' could do well in a solid 'everyone plays 100% for the shirt and they are carried off exhausted after 90 minutes because they played so hard' team in Div 1. That's if we get there ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red_Jim Posted March 28, 2004 Report Share Posted March 28, 2004 Like others, I can't see why you would let Miller go. The guy has undoubted quality, and has only scored a few as the service is utter crap, he hasn't been given a decent strike partner to play with, and Wilson leaves him out because Peacock can do no wrong in his eyes. (This coming from a fan who actually likes Peacock) I'd keep the following players: Miller Murray Tinnion Hill Phillips Coles Doherty A Brown Wilkshire Lita Fortune Woodman Amankwaah Goodfellow I'd let the rest go: Stowell (too old) Carey (in the comfort zone too often, has let his performance level drop badly the last year or 2) Bell (old and slow now - great servant to the club in the past though - deserves to be remembered fondly, the good far outweigh the bad) Butler (DONKEY) Burnell (simply not a good enough footballer for division 1) Peacock (dreadful first touch, is too sloppy too often, won't cut it in Div 1) Matthews (the biggest waste of 100k EVER) Roberts (dont kill me Robbo fans, and it's not because he's welsh - he just has no football brain at all) M Brown (has never really pushed into the team - no doubt Wilson prevented his progress at times, but sadly, there's not a great case for him staying) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spud55 Posted March 28, 2004 Report Share Posted March 28, 2004 I would personally keep Robbo, he can score goals and he can make a lot of them as well. I would still look to strengthen, but i think robbo could get a few in division 1. Playing alongside a player like Miller Robbo could do especially well. I don't see why you want to get rid of miller. He is in his first season in england, and gets continually subbed / dropped when playing consistantly better than peacock. No wonder his confidence is shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Boy Posted March 28, 2004 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2004 I think on your to leave list we should keep roberts , tinnion , miller (i cant beleive you dont think he's good enough) and carey. Roberts 1 goal this season and about 12 last season in the league.He's not been a first team regular in Div 2.He'sjust not good enough. Tinnion will be 37 next season and, to be honest, he wasn't good enough last time we were in the first and that was years ago. Miller has scored 8 League Goals with 1or 2 assists this year-Hardly inspiring and do you honestly see any other club giving us £365,000 for him if we transfer list him? Reading didn't think Murray could cut it and he's a far better player than Roberts or Miller on what I've seen. Sorrry, but you hace to keep in mind that this is a really pi$$ poor Divison and all three sides, unless they spend, will be in the bottom 1/4qtr next year. First Four Games: Wolves A Leicester H Leeds A Sheff Utd H Mark Viduka marked by Tony Butler and Alan Smith by Matt Hill or Danny Coles? Think about it and then look at our side and performance yesterday and then tell me if radical change won't be required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topbuzz Posted March 28, 2004 Report Share Posted March 28, 2004 Tinnion shouldnt be axed hes still quality but perhaps a smaller amount of games ala Sheringham and whilst not a big Miller fan theres no way wed get our money back on him and hes got potential . Although Joe Burnell is a personal friend i do feel hes more equipped for Wardy at Cheltenham than division1 . Finally Carey why get rid hes a solid RB that can play CB and links up well with Murray meaning id let ... Stowell,Bell,Butler*,Burnell,Peacock,Matthews,Roberts & Brown M Go IF we stay in div 2 that is . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Boy Posted March 28, 2004 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2004 Like others, I can't see why you would let Miller go. The guy has undoubted quality, and has only scored a few as the service is utter crap, he hasn't been given a decent strike partner to play with, and Wilson leaves him out because Peacock can do no wrong in his eyes. (This coming from a fan who actually likes Peacock) I'd keep the following players: Miller Murray Tinnion Hill Phillips Coles Doherty A Brown Wilkshire Lita Fortune Woodman Amankwaah Goodfellow I'd let the rest go: Stowell (too old) Carey (in the comfort zone too often, has let his performance level drop badly the last year or 2) Bell (old and slow now - great servant to the club in the past though - deserves to be remembered fondly, the good far outweigh the bad) Butler (DONKEY) Burnell (simply not a good enough footballer for division 1) Peacock (dreadful first touch, is too sloppy too often, won't cut it in Div 1) Matthews (the biggest waste of 100k EVER) Roberts (dont kill me Robbo fans, and it's not because he's welsh - he just has no football brain at all) M Brown (has never really pushed into the team - no doubt Wilson prevented his progress at times, but sadly, there's not a great case for him staying) What I say to that, is, that Peacock has had the same crap service, on which I totally agree and crossing lessons would be my first 10 training sessions if I was coach, yet still scored 13 to Millers 8. Browns scored 5 and so has Lita who's started just 2! Goodfellows got 4 I don't think LP's great and that's why neither made my retained list. Nice to see you pretty much agree with the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cider red Posted March 28, 2004 Report Share Posted March 28, 2004 Mark Viduka marked by Tony Butler and Alan Smith by Matt Hill or Danny Coles? Think about it and then look at our side and performance yesterday and then tell me if radical change won't be required. I thought butler did a perfectly good job on viduka in the pre season friendly and roberts was our best player in the first half of that game. I know its only a friendly , but the first division is not that high a standard people seem to think it is , look at how well crewe are doing they havent got that many better players than us now , and i think the first division would suit most of our players well because its less hoof and chase and more passing flowing football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
court_bcfc Posted March 28, 2004 Report Share Posted March 28, 2004 KEEP MILLER I DONT NO Y EVERY ! THINKS HE RUBBISH!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Boy Posted March 28, 2004 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2004 Tinnion shouldnt be axed hes still quality but perhaps a smaller amount of games ala Sheringham and whilst not a big Miller fan theres no way wed get our money back on him and hes got potential . Although Joe Burnell is a personal friend i do feel hes more equipped for Wardy at Cheltenham than division1 . Finally Carey why get rid hes a solid RB that can play CB and links up well with Murray meaning id let ... Stowell,Bell,Butler*,Burnell,Peacock,Matthews,Roberts & Brown M Go IF we stay in div 2 that is . But potential won't get us promoted and you don't pay £365,000 for potential in Div 2. It won't keep us up and you also say we wouldn't get our money back so what does that tell you? We paid about £250,000 over the odds. Christian Roberts must think, hang on, this guy was brough in to score goals, he's only got eight and I still can't get a start up front. Mind you, he's nothing like good enough either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thornbury Red Posted March 28, 2004 Report Share Posted March 28, 2004 TO STAY (17) Phillips* Doherty* Hill Wilkshire* BrownA Goodfellow* Murray* Coles* Amaankwah* Woodman* Fortune* Lita* Carey* Peacock Miller* Roberts Burnell TO LEAVE (6) Stowell Bell Butler* Tinnion Matthews Brown M No point in changes for changes sake - clear out the dead wood and replace with players who are better than the players currently in their positions. If you get rid of 6 - bring in 3 decent players and supplement from the Academy then the squad will be stronger in the long term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Boy Posted March 28, 2004 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2004 KEEP MILLER I DONT NO Y EVERY ! THINKS HE RUBBISH!!!!!! 8 goals in 35 games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
court_bcfc Posted March 28, 2004 Report Share Posted March 28, 2004 he can play good all round not jus goalscoring. hes got talent!------ Lee miller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobby Posted March 28, 2004 Report Share Posted March 28, 2004 8 goals in 35 games. Miller may only have scored 8 in 31 games (+4 as sub) and 1 in the cup I think, but no one else has scored many either. Maybe this says as much about the service he is getting as it does about his goalscoring ability? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Boy Posted March 28, 2004 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2004 I thought butler did a perfectly good job on viduka in the pre season friendly and roberts was our best player in the first half of that game. I know its only a friendly , but the first division is not that high a standard people seem to think it is , look at how well crewe are doing they havent got that many better players than us now , and i think the first division would suit most of our players well because its less hoof and chase and more passing flowing football. Like you say, it's only a friendly and it's about week in, week out. 46 games. That's the difference. Crewe are surviving and no more. Look at the players in some of the struggling teams. Look at yesterday and Oldham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Boy Posted March 28, 2004 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2004 Miller may only have scored 8 in 31 games (+4 as sub) and 1 in the cup I think, but no one else has scored many either. Maybe this says as much about the service he is getting as it does about his goalscoring ability? So if we had Sean Goater up front, he would have had eight as well. Or even Parkin or Mooney ( who looked a cut above anything we've got when we beat Swindon at home) Come on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Boy Posted March 28, 2004 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2004 Tinnion shouldnt be axed hes still quality Struggled over the last 7 games and he'll be 37, come on. Sherringham's an ex England International has played at the highest level for years so there's no direct comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobby Posted March 28, 2004 Report Share Posted March 28, 2004 So if we had Sean Goater up front, he would have had eight as well. Or even Parkin or Mooney ( who looked a cut above anything we've got when we beat Swindon at home) Come on. Maybe not, but I'm not sure we can judge Miller as harshly so soon - with better service and a strike partner more suited to his style I'm sure he'd score more. Equally I think his all round play is pretty good and I'm sure he has set a few up as well. Not saying he's the finished article or the best striker in the world, just that he could do a useful job for us in Div 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest XrAnGeX Posted March 28, 2004 Report Share Posted March 28, 2004 Forwards are judged on their goal tally. Shaun Goater. 1997/1998 Bristol City Apps.....33 Goals......17 0.52 goal ratio per game.... Enough said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Boy Posted March 28, 2004 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2004 I would personally keep Robbo, he can score goals and he can make a lot of them as well. I would still look to strengthen, but i think robbo could get a few in division 1. Playing alongside a player like Miller Robbo could do especially well. Then why have neither done it in Div 2? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
94th Minute Posted March 28, 2004 Report Share Posted March 28, 2004 8 goals in 35 games. Peacocks got 15 in 38 and nearly all of them have been 90 min games miller has played only 60 min games say 25 of them and 11 games where he played 30 mins so miller - 1830mins = 1 goal every 228mins peacock - 3420min = 1 goal every 228 mins and by coincidence they are the same and miller also plays the supporting role Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headhunter Posted March 28, 2004 Report Share Posted March 28, 2004 Can't argue too much with your selection except for Miller [has real potential] and Tinnion [don't think we'll just let him go - should get rid of Millen and retain Tins on coaching staff] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Boy Posted March 28, 2004 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2004 hmmm ... is it the players or the team that will or will not hack it in Div 1? I don't remember Rotherham having that many stars (and probably a smaller budget than us), they just played like a great team. Most of your 'to leave 11' could do well in a solid 'everyone plays 100% for the shirt and they are carried off exhausted after 90 minutes because they played so hard' team in Div 1. That's if we get there ... Yes but we know that isn't DW's way and if we're promoted, he'll stay! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Boy Posted March 28, 2004 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2004 Can't argue too much with your selection except for Miller [has real potential] and Tinnion [don't think we'll just let him go - should get rid of Millen and retain Tins on coaching staff] Agree with that, but these are players, not coaches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Boy Posted March 28, 2004 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2004 Peacocks got 15 in 38 and nearly all of them have been 90 min games miller has played only 60 min games say 25 of them and 11 games where he played 30 mins so miller - 1830mins = 1 goal every 228mins peacock - 3420min = 1 goal every 228 mins and by coincidence they are the same and miller also plays the supporting role Well, it hasn't always been 60 minutes, so that blows these stats out the water to start with. Face facts: Neither are good enough. Neither have scored enough. Neihter has enough assists. And DW, who signed both, left Miller on the bench when we were losing and moved Butler up front!! Come On Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitey_03 Posted March 28, 2004 Report Share Posted March 28, 2004 Or even Parkin or Mooney ( who looked a cut above anything we've got when we beat Swindon at home) Bristol Boy, Firstly you are more than welcome to have your opinion posted on here like the rest of us!! But all I ever read is you writing is about Mooney & Parkin. If you like these two strikers so much why not go and support Swindon, all the players need the fans backing at times like these, not be slated at every turn!! I hear people asking for people to stay off Peacocks back, so why should Lee Miller be any different. Do you think just because he has been signed for a transfer fee, which you repeatedly have said is over the odds, that gives you the right to absolutely slate this guy!! Come on, give this guy a break, as many have mentioned no matter how good he plays, Peacock will never be subbed for him, which obviously hits your confidence!! He hasnt had a strike partner to compliment him all season, when he does he Peacock replaces him!! And lastly he isnt getting the service a striker needs to bang in the goals, and althought you will say Peacock is having the same service, the City play is set up to suit your main striker Peacock!! Get off this guys back, you seem to have a personal vendetta against him!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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