The Retained List

[Bristol Boy]

Maybe not, but I'm not sure we can judge Miller as harshly so soon - with better service and a strike partner more suited to his style I'm sure he'd score more. Equally I think his all round play is pretty good and I'm sure he has set a few up as well.

Not saying he's the finished article or the best striker in the world, just that he could do a useful job for us in Div 1.

His assists record is actually very low and that surprised me because there's no doubting his workrate and he's a team player, which could be the problem in that he's not selfish enough.

I just don't think he's good enough.

Possibly you could add "yet", to that, but for a young guy he lacks strength, which he'll develop, worryingly, he lacks pace which isn't as easy to develop if you don't have what athletes call-Basic Speed.

Be honest, would we get £365,000 tomorrow if we transfer listed him?

[fct]

A thought, Bristol Boy; last season when City were banging in the goals, if Miller had been up front, how many do you think he'd've scored? I believe the poor return on our forwards this season is due to poor tactics/team selection by the manager. Mooney and Parkin would struggle to score in a team DW picks at present. I doubt he's capable of picking his nose properly.

[Bristol Boy]

Bristol Boy,

Firstly you are more than welcome to have your opinion posted on here like the rest of us!!

But all I ever read is you writing is about Mooney & Parkin. If you like these two strikers so much why not go and support Swindon, all the players need the fans backing at times like these, not be slated at every turn!!

I hear people asking for people to stay off Peacocks back, so why should Lee Miller be any different. Do you think just because he has been signed for a transfer fee, which you repeatedly have said is over the odds, that gives you the right to absolutely slate this guy!!

Come on, give this guy a break, as many have mentioned no matter how good he plays, Peacock will never be subbed for him, which obviously hits your confidence!! He hasnt had a strike partner to compliment him all season, when he does he Peacock replaces him!! And lastly he isnt getting the service a striker needs to bang in the goals, and althought you will say Peacock is having the same service, the City play is set up to suit your main striker Peacock!!

Get off this guys back, you seem to have a personal vendetta against him!!!!!

Listen,

Don't tell me who to support.

I'm a proud Bristolian.

LP & LM aren't good enough for Div 1, that's the point of the post and we paid to much for both, although LP's transfer was in different financial times.

We paid £365k for your caledonian cousin and have eight goals in return.And before you startwith the anti Scottish rhetoric, I'm proud to count players like Gerry Gow, Gerry Sweeney & Tom Ritchie as some of my friends.

I have cited Mooney FOC and Parkin £120k, as better deals are you saying they're not?

Leon Knight £120k 25 Goals, I think.

I'm not on anyones back, just stating facts and I'll cheer his name to the rafters if he scores on Saturday

[Bristol Boy]

A thought, Bristol Boy; last season when City were banging in the goals, if Miller had been up front, how many do you think he'd've scored? I believe the poor return on our forwards this season is due to poor tactics/team selection by the manager. Mooney and Parkin would struggle to score in a team DW picks at present. I doubt he's capable of picking his nose properly.

Agree about DW's tactics etc, however, my original point is not to criticise Miller, it's to say that, if we go up, I don't think he and the others I've mentioned as leavers would cut the mustard.

Given DW's current state of mind,I suppose Miller should count himself fortunate that he isn't in goal or on the left wing

[Guest DANBOY_BCFC]

So if we had Sean Goater up front, he would have had eight as well.

Or even Parkin or Mooney ( who looked a cut above anything we've got when we beat Swindon at home)

Come on.

Goater, Mooney or Parkin would do no better mate, even if we had van Nistelrooy or Vieiri up front, with the service our front boys get they would struggle! The only reason Peaks and Miller havent got more is because the service to them has been diabolical. Peacock has had about 4 good chances in the last 8 or 9 games, its pathetic, and the reason we're not winning.

[twaters]

This is what i think. You are talking rubbish in fantasy land. No real offence intended but if we let those players go we would be relegated to division three. We dont have the money to get these better players in, your dreaming! And as for your comdemming of Carey Tinnion Miller Roberts, Peacock, well i never!

TO STAY (12)

Phillips*

Doherty*

Hill

Wilkshire*

BrownA

Goodfellow*

Murray*

Coles*

Amaankwah*

Woodman*

Fortune*

Lita*

Roberts

Carey

Tinnion

Miller*

Peacock

Brown M

TO LEAVE (11) at the end of this season whether we go up or not.

Stowell

Bell

Butler* Not untill we find a REPLACEMENT.

Burnell

Matthews

[Guest XrAnGeX]

Butler* Not untill we find a REPLACEMENT.

I'll replace him, if thats okay with everyone?

[Guest dolmanred]

To let Carey, Tinnion and Miller go is absolute madness! We need to think about replacement before (if) we decide to release players from their contracts.

It's no good slap-happily booting out a list of players as long as your arm if we've got no cover should anything happen to others that play their position!

[bucksred]

Roberts 1 goal this season and about 12 last season in the league.He's not been a first team regular in Div 2.He'sjust not good enough.

Tinnion will be 37 next season and, to be honest, he wasn't good enough last time we were in the first and that was years ago.

Miller has scored 8 League Goals with 1or 2 assists this year-Hardly inspiring and do you honestly see any other club giving us £365,000 for him if we transfer list him?

Reading didn't think Murray could cut it and he's a far better player than Roberts or Miller on what I've seen.

Sorrry, but you hace to keep in mind that this is a really pi$$ poor Divison and all three sides, unless they spend, will be in the bottom 1/4qtr next year.

First Four Games: Wolves A Leicester H Leeds A Sheff Utd H

Mark Viduka marked by Tony Butler and Alan Smith by Matt Hill or Danny Coles?

Think about it and then look at our side and performance yesterday and then tell me if radical change won't be required.

Bristol Boy, agree with your list bar two, Robbo, and Miller. Our useless manager brought them both, and dont like em once he did, but not being able to make a decision, wont let them go. With a decent manager, and a good run, both of them will score goals, but with Wilson, they aint ever going to get a proper chance, with that useless donkey Peacock (and yes Peacock lovers, I know he scored Saturday, one goal in 11, top striker- not, and do I give a **** if you dont like it? Do I ###### he is still ######*)

dont think Caskey will cut it, if his rep as a pie eater, and atittude problem, are any guide. Cetainly aint heard anything good about him, and with Rougier, I will wait and see.

[Bristol Boy]

This is what i think. You are talking rubbish in fantasy land. No real offence intended but if we let those players go we would be relegated to division three. We dont have the money to get these better players in, your dreaming! And as for your comdemming of Carey Tinnion Miller Roberts, Peacock, well i never!

TO STAY (12)

Phillips*

Doherty*

Hill

Wilkshire*

BrownA

Goodfellow*

Murray*

Coles*

Amaankwah*

Woodman*

Fortune*

Lita*

Roberts

Carey

Tinnion

Miller*

Peacock

Brown M

TO LEAVE (11) at the end of this season whether we go up or not.

Stowell

Bell

Butler* Not untill we find a REPLACEMENT.

Burnell

Matthews

"You are talking rubbish in fantasy land."

No offence?

Christ, I wouldn't want you to be offensive

Look, if we are going to attempt tp play Div 1 Football with a 37 year old playmaker and others who are just about capable of playing in the 2nd, then promotion, if we get it, will be a complete waste of time.

The only reason clubs like Rotherham, Walsall & Crewe are surviving, just, is because of tactically astute managers who can operate on less than we do.DW isn't in that category.

If we don't claer out the Div 2 players we won't be able to afford some Div 1 quality and we'll go down after one season.

[Bristol Boy]

To let Carey, Tinnion and Miller go is absolute madness! We need to think about replacement before (if) we decide to release players from their contracts.

It's no good slap-happily booting out a list of players as long as your arm if we've got no cover should anything happen to others that play their position!

Well that's obvious.

I'm not talking about sacking them the minute after we go up.

We will need, by most peoples estimates, 5/6 new players.

In my view, thay are

2 Strikers

1 Centre Half

1 Midfielder

Thats allowing for Amaankwah & Brown A coming back

[Bristol Boy]

Goater, Mooney or Parkin would do no better mate, even if we had van Nistelrooy or Vieiri up front, with the service our front boys get they would struggle! The only reason Peaks and Miller havent got more is because the service to them has been diabolical. Peacock has had about 4 good chances in the last 8 or 9 games, its pathetic, and the reason we're not winning.

The service has been crap all season and our crossing is abysmall.

We can't take set pieces, they appear to have coached that out of Wilkshire and Tinnions corners and free kicks are pass backs.

We can't defend them but DW's "working on that" and he'll probably have it sussed by June!

I still think that LP & LM could do more to create their own chances and I hope when DW realises that Tinnion isn't a winger and brings back Goodfellow on the left, with Murray on the right, that might improve.

However, the coaches MUST get the wide men to the byeline and pull crosses back, high and low, with pace, not keep coming inside & backwards.

[Grannyjoy]

The service has been crap all season and our crossing is abysmall.

We can't take set pieces, they appear to have coached that out of Wilkshire and Tinnions corners and free kicks are pass backs.

We can't defend them but DW's "working on that" and he'll probably have it sussed by June!

I still think that LP & LM could do more to create their own chances and I hope when DW realises that Tinnion isn't a winger and brings back Goodfellow on the left, with Murray on the right, that might improve.

However, the coaches MUST get the wide men to the byeline and pull crosses back, high and low, with pace, not keep coming inside & backwards.

Having read all of Bristol Boy's post on this thread I'm concerned that I have actually found one that I almost agree with

The one I don't quite, is that when LP & LM do go searching for the ball to make chances for themselves, they are criticised for not being in the box to finish - stalemate!

LM has not been given the same opportunities that LP has to prove himself - rightly or wrongly, no ones opinion matters bar the Managers.

I really thought that with the shake up of new players he would have been given that chance, but so far it does'nt seem likely. However if allowed a decent chance to show what he can do, given the proper service, I hope I can come back on here and say, not "I told you so", but thanks for listening!

[Dave L]

TO LEAVE (11)

Stowell

Carey

Bell

Butler*

Burnell

Peacock

Miller*

Tinnion

Matthews

Roberts

Brown M

Wouldn't argue with your retained list, so that's one thing we agree on. But as for your 'get rid' list ....

I mildly disagree about Carey. I'd keep him and have him as one of my options in the Centre, which is his best position, and look for a quality right back (when did we last have one of those?). I strongly disagree about Tinnion (and I notice you don't mention the fact that like Roberts, he still has another year on his contract). He may not play a full season in Division 1, but he would be a vital, experienced and influential member of the squad.

But where I fundamentally and forcefully disagree is in your one-eyed assessment of Lee Miller.

I firmly believe that Miller is the best bit of business this club has done for many a year. He's only 20, learning fast and has the potential to score a hatful of goals at 1st division level. He's an excellent header of the ball, holds it up well, has good vision and two good feet. What is undeniable is that he has consistently been played out of position this season (when he's not been on the bench) and has been forced to sit back and watch the under-achieving Peacock's inept attempts to lead the line. Put Miller in that position with a natural poacher alongside him, give them decent service from the wings and watch him fly.

It's not the player. It's the tactics.

[whitey_03]

Wouldn't argue with your retained list, so that's one thing we agree on. But as for your 'get rid' list ....

I mildly disagree about Carey. I'd keep him and have him as one of my options in the Centre, which is his best position, and look for a quality right back (when did we last have one of those?). I strongly disagree about Tinnion (and I notice you don't mention the fact that like Roberts, he still has another year on his contract). He may not play a full season in Division 1, but he would be a vital, experienced and influential member of the squad.

But where I fundamentally and forcefully disagree is in your one-eyed assessment of Lee Miller.

I firmly believe that Miller is the best bit of business this club has done for many a year. He's only 20, learning fast and has the potential to score a hatful of goals at 1st division level. He's an excellent header of the ball, holds it up well, has good vision and two good feet. What is undeniable is that he has consistently been played out of position this season (when he's not been on the bench) and has been forced to sit back and watch the under-achieving Peacock's inept attempts to lead the line. Put Miller in that position with a natural poacher alongside him, give them decent service from the wings and watch him fly.

It's not the player. It's the tactics.

Enough Said

[bobby]

The one I don't quite, is that when LP & LM do go searching for the ball to make chances for themselves, they are criticised for not being in the box to finish - stalemate!

However if allowed a decent chance to show what he can do, given the proper service, I hope I can come back on here and say, not "I told you so", but thanks for listening!

Agree totally - they've had no choice but to do this and then of course there is no one in the box to take advantage!

I would love to see Miller up front with Rougier/Roberts/Lita for at least some of the next few games, really couldn't understand why he didn't get on the pitch Sat instead of Roberts. Hope he gets that chance as I think he has more than proved himself in recent games and with improved service from Murray and Goodfellow I'm sure the goals would come.

[Guest butterflybairn]

if you don't want miller we'll have him back thank you very much!

[GrahamC]

It's a very good point about the quality of strikers in Div One, last time I remember watching the likes of Kevin Phillips, Marcus Stewart and Lee Hughes against us.

Personally I'd release the following, Bell, Amankwaah, Matthews, Burnell, Roberts and Marvin Brown. Amankwaah may seem controversial but he is injury prone and doesn't show anywhere near enough commitment to me.

I doubt Caskey or Rougier will get offered terms though Caskey is, I believe, the likelier of the two to have any chance.

I'd offer Peacock another deal on reduced terms and for all the debate on Tinman and Butler they still have a year left anyway and would be useful squad players.

Stowell is also under contract for another year but I can't see what part he could possibly play, now is the time to give Scott Brown a squad number and a place on the bench as Steve's back up/competition.