New Stadium, Ashton Gate Revamp, Or Nothing?

[054123]

To answer your first question - no it is not speculation there are discussions underway about a piece of land not far from AG, within the Bristol boundary where there is the potential for a new stadium, with initial capacity around 30K but expansiont o 40K easy to do. Cost would be greater than redeveloping AG but would avoid the disruption of redevelopment - when you redo the Williams you have to move a lot of fans around and reduce your existing capacity - is that really something we would want to do at the moment.

Whilst new grounds can be soulless, they provide excellent facilities for fans, better conference/corporate facilities so the club can make more revenue. If the location is accessible and the business plan stacks up then why not?

I don't mean this with any disrespect, but i often find it strange when fans talk about better facilities. I appreciate different people have different needs, but i all i want is a terrace, 2000 like minded bods around me and the super reds doing their stuff on the pitch.

I can never understand when the club go on about entertainment/facilities. All i'm there for is the football and then second to that, my football mates.

I couldn't give a toss about what happens before the game or at half time, if people do, they're obviously there for the wrong reasons.

[Long Ashton Red]

I don't mean this with any disrespect, but i often find it strange when fans talk about better facilities. I appreciate different people have different needs, but i all i want is a terrace, 2000 like minded bods around me and the super reds doing their stuff on the pitch.

I can never understand when the club go on about entertainment/facilities. All i'm there for is the football and then second to that, my football mates.

I couldn't give a toss about what happens before the game or at half time, if people do, they're obviously there for the wrong reasons.

entertainment and facilities isn't just about what happens on match days, it comes down to how you make money out of a football stadium that at best is used for football once a week/fortnight. With a new all singing all dancing stadium there is much more potential for other uses that will make the club money outside of match days. Also remember that football stadiums cost money to run, particularly old ones, that money comes out of the clubs budget, that could be spent on wages/players/training facils etc.

[054123]

entertainment and facilities isn't just about what happens on match days, it comes down to how you make money out of a football stadium that at best is used for football once a week/fortnight. With a new all singing all dancing stadium there is much more potential for other uses that will make the club money outside of match days. Also remember that football stadiums cost money to run, particularly old ones, that money comes out of the clubs budget, that could be spent on wages/players/training facils etc.

I agree with what you say, i think the problem is that a change of stadium is a very emotive subject which (like everything else in football) clouds all common sense (including my own!).

Another problem is that new stadia of the last 10/15 years have been a shambles, killing all atmosphere at games and thus not acting as the best advert for a new build.

[Robbored]

Trying to find a relocation site has been done to death.There just isn't anywhere particularly in South Bristol suitable for a decent size football stadium.

Hengrove Park and the land close to John Lloyds were both looked at but it was decided that they weren't feasable.Not least in the case of Henbury because of the protests from local residents. Severnside was also considered.

AG will be eventually be redeveloped pretty much in the way described by BB eatlier in this thread.

[Long Ashton Red]

Trying to find a relocation site has been done to death.There just isn't anywhere particularly in South Bristol suitable for a decent size football stadium.

Hengrove Park and the land close to John Lloyds were both looked at but it was decided that they weren't feasable.Not least in the case of Henbury because of the protests from local residents. Severnside was also considered.

AG will be eventually be redeveloped pretty much in the way described by BB eatlier in this thread.

There is a site and it is being considered seriously by the private sector and the club.

[Robbored]

There is a site and it is being considered seriously by the private sector and the club.

Where?

The fruit market was once considered but didn't take off. All the available sites in the Bristol area have all been considered as mentioned in my earlier post.

You have to remember that to bulid a football stadium with all the car parking and access roads takes up a substancial amount of land and there just ain't anywhere big enough that I'm aware of in the area. Even if there was a big enough place you would have an enormous problem with planning permission (Bristol City Council are notoriously anti any type of stadium development despite there no large venue's in the parish) and an uproar from any local residents.

[Long Ashton Red]

Where?

The fruit market was once considered but didn't take off. All the available sites in the Bristol area have all been considered as mentioned in my earlier post.

You have to remember that to bulid a football stadium with all the car parking and access roads takes up a substancial amount of land and there just ain't anywhere big enough that I'm aware of in the area. Even if there was a big enough place you would have an enormous problem with planning permission (Bristol City Council are notoriously anti any type of stadium development despite there no large venue's in the parish) and an uproar from any local residents.

Firstly BCC are not anti any type of stadium development - they put the Hengrove Park proposal to a referendum so the local community could decide and have always said that if there is a viable site and proposal they will look at it.

Equally, I am more than aware how much land new stadiums and associated facilities take up thank you, I also know how much it is likely to cost. And still I maintain that there is a site and it is being looked at seriously!!! The site is in Ashton Vale, it has been looked at before, and is being looked at again.

[Henry]

I wanna look it up on Google Earth, so any chance of knowing where excatly?

Thanks

[Barrs Court Red]

Just type in Ashton Vale map in google and it should come up with maps of the area. Simply take out a post code and enter it into google earth

[Henry]

I mean is there a specific site, or just somewhere in Ashton Vale.

[Gerry Gows' Tash]

Like all of you I too love The gate, but once the EE is developed there isn't really much more space after that. A move may be the only option.....but some day in the future!

What about the Grandstand ? Once the EE is rebuilt that will be the oldest stand in the ground, and it shows. Redevelop as a two tier joined to the Atyeo/EE and you could significantly increase capacity.

I'm not a great fan of modern stadia, they tend to be miles from anywhere, forcing everyone to drive, have no character and no history, plus economics would probably dictate sharing with the gas and probably the egg chasers too.

[foghornred]

For me it's got to be redevelop but if cheaper then move to a new ground situated behind the John Lloyd center.

[churchill ciderhead]

Just reading some of the other threads on the board, and it has been mentioned that City are looking at the possibility of building a brand new stadium "not far from Ashton Gate". Does anyone actually know this, or are people merely speculating?

Personally, I would be in favour of moving to a brand new ground, provided that it was in South Bristol, and that some thought was given to the design, as opposed to building a boring identikit lego brick ground such as Reading, Swansea, Leicester, Saints etc.

What do you think?

I thought the decision had been made. Staying at Ashton Gate, and rebuilding. East End being rebuilt May 2008. But I won't hold my breath!!!!!!!!

[kelbcfc]

I THINK WE SHOULD RIP THE SEATS OUT OF THE EE AND GO BACK TO TERRACING THAT WAY

WE COULD SQUEEZE AS MANY HOME FANS AS WE WANTED IN,AND THE ATMOSPHERE WOULD BE

LIKE DAYS GONE BY.

[Flaxbourton Red]

I THINK WE SHOULD RIP THE SEATS OUT OF THE EE AND GO BACK TO TERRACING THAT WAY

WE COULD SQUEEZE AS MANY HOME FANS AS WE WANTED IN,AND THE ATMOSPHERE WOULD BE

LIKE DAYS GONE BY.

that would be amazing

nothing beats watching football from a packed terrace

i feel sorry for the young uns who are missing out, the plastic seated Mcdonald stadiums are crap.

[Matty H]

Thw board have always stated it will be far far cheaper to move to a purpose built stadium than to redevelope the Gate. So not sure where some of the figures in this thread are coming from

[Bristol Boy]

Well our capacity now is around 20k. The figures above say 20m for a 10k increase which would include 2 or 3 new stands i assume. That to me seems as much as we would need for the next decade for starters. Were currently just not a big enough or rich enough club to justify more than that.

New EE.Redevelop Williams (Grandstand)

Looking at South Bristol, I think it is reasonable to think that the oppotunity for a new ground will become more feasable as the South Bristol Regeneration kicks in, namly the South Bristol ring road which is far far far away from even becomi9ng close to a reality. Given that south Bristol is going to change greatly in the next couple of decades maybe we'll see something happen because of that.

If we rebuild the EE we won't be moving anytime soon-failing the points I made earlier

Personaly I think Ashton Gate looks tired, is a bugger to get to and from. A great many chairman have said it is more cost effective to build new stadiums rather than rebuild, and looking at Liverpools new ground it proves there is no need to go for the tired 90's model of plastic bowls.

Mind you, Liverpool's Ground will be £300m

I don't mean this with any disrespect, but i often find it strange when fans talk about better facilities. I appreciate different people have different needs, but i all i want is a terrace, 2000 like minded bods around me and the super reds doing their stuff on the pitch.

I can never understand when the club go on about entertainment/facilities. All i'm there for is the football and then second to that, my football mates.

I couldn't give a toss about what happens before the game or at half time, if people do, they're obviously there for the wrong reasons.

Lots of people prefer to sit, although I agree with your views on half time entertainment which is pants in the main.I support Safe Standing not a return to terracing on the basis of giving the customer what they want......all of them!

What about the Grandstand ? Once the EE is rebuilt that will be the oldest stand in the ground, and it shows. Redevelop as a two tier joined to the Atyeo/EE and you could significantly increase capacity.

The Williams is the Grandstand and it is being redeveloped. That's how we get to 29k

I'm not a great fan of modern stadia, they tend to be miles from anywhere, forcing everyone to drive, have no character and no history, plus economics would probably dictate sharing with the gas and probably the egg chasers too.

The Gas will have their own soon, barring accidents and they'll accommodate the Rugby-Although, as long as the pitch is up to it I don't mind sharing with Bristol Rugby.Obviously something brand new won't have History but the club will have.Economics will probably dictate that we stay put.

I THINK WE SHOULD RIP THE SEATS OUT OF THE EE AND GO BACK TO TERRACING THAT WAY WE COULD SQUEEZE AS MANY HOME FANS AS WE WANTED IN,AND THE ATMOSPHERE WOULD BE LIKE DAYS GONE BY.

We can't fill what we've got @ 19,500 so I wouldn't worry about squeezing more in, I'd be concerned about getting people to come at all.Our Chairman is dead against a return to terracing, so unless he understands the safe standing debate, that will never happen s long as SL's involved.

From a Civil Engineering Standpoint, you couldn't rip out all the seats and go back to terracing as it wouldn't comply with todays legislation.

[Bristol Boy]

Thw board have always stated it will be far far cheaper to move to a purpose built stadium than to redevelope the Gate. So not sure where some of the figures in this thread are coming from

I think you'll find that was the old board-I can't recall this one saying it although if you've got that comment anywhere I'll stand corrected.

The figures come from here.

CITY TO PRESS AHEAD WITH WEDLOCK REDEVELOPMENT

Date : 16.05.07

Bristol City are resurrecting plans to rebuild the Wedlock Stand at Ashton Gate, two years after the project was first proposed, taking the next step towards having a stadium which holds 29,000 fans.Planning permission was granted in 2005 to redevelop that end of the ground, which currently houses away supporters.

Work was due to start in the July of that year. It was put back 12 months and then, mainly due to a lack of funds, was postponed indefinitely.

Now, having won promotion to the Championship, City are to press ahead, with the builders moving in to start work at the end of next season.

Chief executive Colin Sexstone said: "The plans won't change drastically from our original intentions. The back of that stand will become the main entrance to the stadium, and it will have a fantastic concourse and 16 executive boxes. It will even be taller than the Dolman Stand.

"And that's just phase one of the project. We were granted permission to redevelop the Williams Stand in 1998, and have consistently renewed that so it still applies today.

"Rebuilding that stand, and filling in one of the corners, will provide more than 13,000 seats, taking us up to a capacity of 29,000.

"I wouldn't say the Wedlock plan has been triggered by promotion, but it certainly helps."

Although no images are yet available for the Wedlock design, the club say it will be very similar to the single-tier construction proposed two years ago.

The new stand, which will cost in the region of £7 million to build, will house 5,300 fans, taking the capacity of Ashton Gate to 21,000 when segregation is used. Away fans will be moved to another part of the ground, although it is yet to be decided where.

[cider head]

Revamp Ashton gate but look to getting the right stands built in place of the williams and

the EE, a box stand behined the goal does not look good without the corners filled in and

also for the corporate boxes they are much better off built on the side of the pictch (better view)

than behined the goal, the williams stand would be better being built first as you have a better idea

on how to fill corners in, charlton is a good example of a revamp.

[Matty H]

I think you'll find that was the old board-I can't recall this one saying it although if you've got that comment anywhere I'll stand corrected.

No, it was the current board, under Lansdown, by Lansdown, not that long after he took over from Laycock. I don't recall the exact figure, but at the time it was projected a fee of around 20 25 mill to build a new stadium as opposed to double that to redevelope the Gate to the same standard

[Barrs Court Red]

No, it was the current board, under Lansdown, by Lansdown, not that long after he took over from Laycock. I don't recall the exact figure, but at the time it was projected a fee of around 20 25 mill to build a new stadium as opposed to double that to redevelope the Gate to the same standard

I think you're right. I think it was at the time of the Severnside proposal.

Given the recent debate over flood plains, it's a good job we never built there!

[cockney dave]

Why not buy the centre off of the council.Knock all the surrounding buildings down.Then build high rise flats for city fans and the season tickets could go with the morgage payment.The capacity cold be up to half a million.If full just stick some more flats on the top!It could be paid for by the common market so's not to effect our civil rights!! If not stick with ASHTON GATE

[cider head]

I'd prefer the gate to be revamped but if city did have to move i would rather see us stay in south bristol,

long ashton area or failand type of areas, thats if a stadium can be built there, i would hate to see us end

up north of the river.

[Flaxbourton Red]

Why not buy the centre off of the council.Knock all the surrounding buildings down.Then build high rise flats for city fans and the season tickets could go with the morgage payment.The capacity cold be up to half a million.If full just stick some more flats on the top!It could be paid for by the common market so's not to effect our civil rights!! If not stick with ASHTON GATE

i was getting all excited with your idea until you mention the common market

c'mon everyone knows it is now called the EU.

[Nibor]

Ideally I'd like the Gate to be redeveloped to a 30k or so stadium with the right facilities but if that doesn't make sense financially and it's cheaper to build a new stadium then as long as it's fairly close I'd be happy with that. I don't want us to spend lots of money on the stadium unless it's actually going to pay for itself inside say, 5 years. I certainly don't want the club to end up not owning the revenue generating bits like the gash north of the river have proposed.

[Bristol Boy]

No, it was the current board, under Lansdown, by Lansdown, not that long after he took over from Laycock. I don't recall the exact figure, but at the time it was projected a fee of around 20 25 mill to build a new stadium as opposed to double that to redevelope the Gate to the same standard

I think you'll find it's the other way around now, especially judging by what MK Dons paid for theirs.

[Bristol Boy]

Ideally I'd like the Gate to be redeveloped to a 30k or so stadium with the right facilities but if that doesn't make sense financially and it's cheaper to build a new stadium then as long as it's fairly close I'd be happy with that. I don't want us to spend lots of money on the stadium unless it's actually going to pay for itself inside say, 5 years. I certainly don't want the club to end up not owning the revenue generating bits like the gash north of the river have proposed.

MK dons new stadium cost £42m and is probably the latest of a decent size, so the cost is relevant-It currently holds only 22,000 but will be increased to 30k within that cost-Judging by what CS said above it looks like our will come in sub £20m, poss about £16m.

In terms of paying for itself in five years, I doubt either will do that and a property investment of that nature would normally be paid for over 20/25 years which makes it sensible and affordable to finance.

A £20M investment would cost £333,333 per month just to repay the capital amount, never mind interest over 5 years and we'd have to find that along with about a £500kpcm wage bill which wouldn't put us far short of £1mpcm-That's about £520,000 a game over 23 home games and on 15,000 gates that's about £35average each.Unless we have far more Corporate Customers than we have now, that cost would be a killer to a lot of people.

As soon as you start looking at even a ten year payback the ticket prices come down and it starts getting more affordable-Of course, promotion to The Prem pretty much solves any issue........on the other hand relegation would put us in another wet place without a paddle!

I really wouldn't mind either way and I'll be glad to see the EE replaced providing what we replace it with is suitable in the long term.

[Nibor]

MK dons new stadium cost £42m and is probably the latest of a decent size, so the cost is relevant-It currently holds only 22,000 but will be increased to 30k within that cost-Judging by what CS said above it looks like our will come in sub £20m, poss about £16m.

In terms of paying for itself in five years, I doubt either will do that and a property investment of that nature would normally be paid for over 20/25 years which makes it sensible and affordable to finance.

A £20M investment would cost £333,333 per month just to repay the capital amount, never mind interest over 5 years and we'd have to find that along with about a £500kpcm wage bill which wouldn't put us far short of £1mpcm-That's about £520,000 a game over 23 home games and on 15,000 gates that's about £35average each.Unless we have far more Corporate Customers than we have now, that cost would be a killer to a lot of people.

As soon as you start looking at even a ten year payback the ticket prices come down and it starts getting more affordable-Of course, promotion to The Prem pretty much solves any issue........on the other hand relegation would put us in another wet place without a paddle!

I really wouldn't mind either way and I'll be glad to see the EE replaced providing what we replace it with is suitable in the long term.

When I say pay for itself in 5 years, I'm talking about money we spend on the existing stadium not the price of redeveloping it completely or building a new one. I don't think it's unrealistic for a redeveloped stand to pay for itself in 5 years, in fact if it doesn't you have to seriously question what the point in spending the money is. If we spend £8m on the East End, and it doesn't pay for itself in 5 or so years, what exactly have we got for our money?

If the board did invest £20m in the stadium, say on rebuilding the Williams and EE to be a new L shape stand as they planned a while back, I'd hope that we would significantly increase our turnover as a result. We're talking about non matchday revenue here too which is one of the big drivers behind any redevelopment they do. Large scale conferencing facilities allowing us to work the stadium 7 days a week and proper corporate boxes can add several million coming in every season. Expecting it to take 25 years to pay back is wrong, the facilities will be dated by then and that's 25 years without investing in the other two stands. The days of facilities lasting 50 years without full refits are long gone.

[churchill ciderhead]

Just reading some of the other threads on the board, and it has been mentioned that City are looking at the possibility of building a brand new stadium "not far from Ashton Gate". Does anyone actually know this, or are people merely speculating?

Personally, I would be in favour of moving to a brand new ground, provided that it was in South Bristol, and that some thought was given to the design, as opposed to building a boring identikit lego brick ground such as Reading, Swansea, Leicester, Saints etc.

What do you think?

Where did you read it?????

Redvelopment is already the answer!

[Frome Valley]

Although no images are yet available for the Wedlock design, the club say it will be very similar to the single-tier construction proposed two years ago.

The new stand, which will cost in the region of £7 million to build, will house 5,300 fans, taking the capacity of Ashton Gate to 21,000 when segregation is used. Away fans will be moved to another part of the ground, although it is yet to be decided where.

Its costing SEVEN MILLION pounds despite not having to buy any land, it won't increase the capacity by more than 300 but nobody knows what it really looks like even though it has had planning permission since 2005.

The alarm bells should be ringing loud and clear right now.