Crowd Today Concerning

[zookeeper]

Let's say it was a straight choice between 13k home fans at every game and £200k extra revenue or 16k home fans at every game and £200k less revenue which would you pick?

I'd say the latter was more sensible because it builds the fan base for the future and you can always have prices rise slowly over time so that they are bearable.

Sexstone has gone for the former.

This is what it boils down to isn't it.

Sexstone see this as our season to make some money and his remit is income generation both short and long term.

Without the short term will there be a long term? but this is a double edged sword. If we don't get the short term income we won't compete (as we wouldn't have the signings we made) but if we piss off the fans this year will they come back.

[Redtucks]

I'd say the latter was more sensible because it builds the fan base for the future and you can always have prices rise slowly over time so that they are bearable.

Maybe that is part of the problem.

Over recent seasons, prices have been held due to the yearly frustrations at failing to achieve promotion.

Now that we have finally made it, there was obviously a need to increase the income to compete at this level.

Whether the prices have been pitched correctly, only time will tell.

But as I mentioned earlier, in comparison to other clubs at this level, I feel our prices are broadly similar, even though the increase to get there came as a bit of a shock.

[Red Robin]

Maybe that is part of the problem.

Over recent seasons, prices have been held due to the yearly frustrations at failing to achieve promotion.

Now that we have finally made it, there was obviously a need to increase the income to compete at this level.

Whether the prices have been pitched correctly, only time will tell.

But as I mentioned earlier, in comparison to other clubs at this level, I feel our prices are broadly similar, even though the increase to get there came as a bit of a shock.

There is a famous saying

Generally you get what you pay for

[Nibor]

Your missing the original reason for this post,12500 BRISTOL CITY fans turned up Saturday,a catchment area that is in place around Bristol, with the team playing for top spot was very very poor,forgetting your issue with people unable to afford it,there is still very very many who can.

The FACT is that the numbers that attended was embarrasing for such a game.

Jesus Christ.

There are those that want to go but cannot afford it because of the price hike, the ones you're forgetting.

There are those that don't really mind much, might have come but aren't bothered much (the missing 30k from Wembley) and may have been put off by the price hike.

The only embarrassing thing is you moaning about the crowds and in the same breath saying the prices are value for money.

Maybe that is part of the problem.

Over recent seasons, prices have been held due to the yearly frustrations at failing to achieve promotion.

Now that we have finally made it, there was obviously a need to increase the income to compete at this level.

Whether the prices have been pitched correctly, only time will tell.

But as I mentioned earlier, in comparison to other clubs at this level, I feel our prices are broadly similar, even though the increase to get there came as a bit of a shock.

I'd point out that prices haven't held, they've increased every year just done so stealthily and slowly (to little or no complaint despite being stuck in league one).

I agree time will tell on whether we've got the price right, it seems right now though that with disappointing crowds it looks like we haven't.

There is a famous saying

Generally you get what you pay for

Or not, as seems to be the case here.

[rayer]

I know loads of people who CAN afford to go, but they wont because of the price. 'Best part of £30 for 90 mins isnt worth it' is the common reply. They will only go when City are against a big name.

As for the argument of our prices are the same as others in this league, its not just about the actual game, you have to compare and look at the facilities they have !!! Then look at what is avaialble at the gate.

You wait until the prices go up again at the end of this season with the reason to carry on competeing at this level

[Fodbarmyarmy]

Just wondering ......if 40% rise is too much how much people think the club should have raised by?

[Nibor]

Just wondering ......if 40% rise is too much how much people think the club should have raised by?

I thought a 20% rise with a 5% off option for early bird renewals was reasonable.

[Frome Valley]

[old_man_terry]

I find this thread VERY funny,

all these people complaining about the prices, yet no one seems to complaining or giving praise for the club spending around £2m on players since promotion, making improvements to the dolman seating and in turn slighty increasing the capacity or improving the sound system at the gate

money has to come from somewhere and to me the price increases have been justifed based on the improvements to the ground and the vast improvements in performances by the team and the increased quality of players at the club.

still...........the same people have been complaining about the same thing for the last few months and will no doubt be saying the same thing for the next few months to come.

[rayer]

Thats the problem you have when you have a board who say the club have to stand on its own two feet. Where other clubs have boards that inject money into the club and they get results, we have a board that gives the club loans to keep it afloat.

Any major sells that City do (Cottrill for example), never seem to be given directly to the transfer kitty, only a small percentage, and the rest goes to paying back the loan from the stakeholders i imagine.

[Nibor]

I find this thread VERY funny

Me too but for different reasons no doubt.

money has to come from somewhere

Forgive me for preferring that it come from selling more tickets as opposed to selling fewer more expensive tickets.

still...........the same people have been complaining about the same thing for the last few months and will no doubt be saying the same thing for the next few months to come.

And a few months from now the same people who have been ignoring the points made because they're alright Jack will no doubt be berating fellow city fans for not being able to afford to go to games.

[City Ben]

Demand is inelastic as you describe it for the people who attended when we were in league one ****il we price them out that is), but not for the other 30,000 who show up to watch us at the Millenium stadium or Wembley. Not only did the hike price out some regular fans it also made a fair few of the floating supporters (at least the ones I know) decide against buying season tickets this season.

What disappoints me most is that I firmly believe there was the potential to be playing in front of a nearly full house for most games this season, something that a bit of long term thinking with respect to prices and a bit of original marketing could have achieved, but it appears we've decided to take the short sighted and risky approach of fleecing the long suffering fan instead of trying to bring new ones in. If they'd tried that and failed, they might have been a couple of hundred grand down - they could always have reverted to plan B the following season. As it is, we didn't try and pack the ground out and we've blown the chance unless we get promoted again now.

Agree agree agree. I think there is a better balance to have been struck, which would have led to larger revenues AND attendances. Essentially, though, if we'd had a 30% increase we'd still all be complaining about a big hike.

[old_man_terry]

Thats the problem you have when you have a board who say the club have to stand on its own two feet. Where other clubs have boards that inject money into the club and they get results, we have a board that gives the club loans to keep it afloat.

yeah and other clubs make major losses each in the meantime when it all goes wrong, just look what happened last time we were in this league

Any major sells that City do (Cottrill for example), never seem to be given directly to the transfer kitty, only a small percentage, and the rest goes to paying back the loan from the stakeholders i imagine.

see your point, sell Cotterill for £2m, then in the next 12months sign players Betsy, Wilson, Trundle, Elliott, Byfield, Sproule, McIndoe for pushing £3m? :noexpression:

[mossey]

I'd be more worried if I was a Cardiff fan.

11,772 was their attendance today against Preston. They are an established Championship side, in debt, depending on crowds to pay the extortionate wages of their ageing strikeforce. A city of similar size to Bristol with arguably a larger catchment area because of the valleys.

Although I'm a little disappointed with 14k, this is the 2nd game in a week against arguably less attractive opposition. Bear in mind Bristol has a massive transient population of students and young professionals who are from the home counties and other places and who are not in the least interested in local football. I think that due to the relative lack of success of the local football sides, Bristol also has a ridiculously high number of glory fans who are noticeable every time you walk through Broadmead. Even today at 2.30pm walking down Duckmoor Road I saw one young lad on his bike cycling away from the Gate with a Man Utd shirt on, I assume with no intention of going to our match. It's sad that even when City are on the doorstep, some kids just aren't interested in their local football team. Not something I'll accept with my future children.

Cardiff game live on TV, early kick off, might have put off a few people, esp those travelling from Preston, lets see what the gate is for citys next home game, live on Tv, 5.30 kick off on a Saturday, £25+ sat in a pub watching it on tv buys alot of beer!

[old_man_terry]

Me too but for different reasons no doubt.

Forgive me for preferring that it come from selling more tickets as opposed to selling fewer more expensive tickets.

And a few months from now the same people who have been ignoring the points made because they're alright Jack will no doubt be berating fellow city fans for not being able to afford to go to games.

thing is, some of the people that are complaining about the prices this season are the same people that were complaining about things last season like prices, no east end, not entertaining, it's the same ones moaning now but with different reasons.

[Nibor]

thing is, some of the people that are complaining about the prices this season are the same people that were complaining about things last season like prices, no east end, not entertaining, it's the same ones moaning now but with different reasons.

I can't recall seeing moaning about prices or entertainment on here last season myself, but I'd expect any issue that causes contention between the club and fans to get discussed on and off until it no longer causes contention.

[rayer]

Last time we were in this league, we made the mistake of spending big just on forwards. It would of been a different story if we invested in the defence as well.

As for all the players mentioned, they are doing a good job, but there isnt exactly a massive queue at the gate too watch them.

To get the crowds in, you need someone with a high profile that the younger generation (and some older folk) will think ' Lets get down the gate and see this star play !'

Thats why the crowds turn up when we play the big teams, they want to see the bigger names in the flesh on the pitch. If this club wants to get the crowd it wants, it needs to review the pricing and get a few popular names on the back of a city shirt. Sad state of affairs I know, but that is how the majority of flaoting fans see it. This is where the gamble of investment is needed, otherwise we will always be in the backwaters. City have only been noticed recently because of GJ profile, he is a media genius.

Once he goes, the media interest will go.

[Bristol Boy]

see your point, sell Cotterill for £2m, then in the next 12months sign players Betsy, Wilson, Trundle, Elliott, Byfield, Sproule, McIndoe for pushing £3m? :noexpression:

Bit simplistic.

In terms of income we've had £2m this season from Sky & The Prem Handout and about £2.7-3m in ST Sales-Then there's local sponsorship & corporate.Throw in POD and our income may be about £5.5m plus cup runs, prize money and additional cup TV money.

The over arching point of all this is that we had 14,000 on Sat which, when you take out 1,000 Burnley Fans & 9,600 ST Holders = 3,400 POD.That's not great and a lot of people, if one bothers to listen, have told us why on this thread and, as you have eluded, many, many others.

Last season our POD average was 41%. Against Burnley it was 24%-that's one hell of a drop.

They're still not coming even though we've been top and in the top four nearly all season-Now, we can say "**** 'em, hard luck!" or we can look for reasons, listen and even try to win back the 800 ST's that walked and the 70/80 ST's that didn't renew when the Prem was built -and we've lost them for two seasons.On the face of it, that's almost 1,000 fans and it looks like we need them back from where I'm standing.

Of course, we could just say b******s, I can afford it so they're all muppetts and then when, as sure as day follows night, we have a lean spell or start struggling, even more people will walk away and say the same to BCFC-Just think about it.

With segregation, we can squeeze in about 19,500 fans and, including our first game at home in the CCC for nine years and with the visit of the Prem League Leaders-we haven't filled it-on occassions by 5,500-That's a waste of space-literaly, isn't it??

[punnett]

thing is, some of the people that are complaining about the prices this season are the same people that were complaining about things last season like prices, no east end, not entertaining, it's the same ones moaning now but with different reasons.

To be honest i don't post that often but found a need to on this occasion as to why i had a grievence about the cost and it wasn't meant to be argumentative, as i have stated, for many many people the price is excessive and beyond many peoples means, for others it is far too expensive and just will not fork out £30 potd, as i have personally stated i do INTEND to go to every game but know full well that just wont happen, fair enough to the people who are trying to justify the prices but the fact is many many true & loyal supporters like me who have followed city for many years are being priced out of the market through these good times, this isn't meant as a "moan" as old man terry states just perhaps an explanation as to why the attendances have been, not surprising to some, quite low.

[Red Robin]

thing is, some of the people that are complaining about the prices this season are the same people that were complaining about things last season like prices, no east end, not entertaining, it's the same ones moaning now but with different reasons.

To be honest Terry the beauty of this forum is we all have varying views which is great,however one or two "no names mentioned" seem to think our sucess to date will not come at a priemium,we all know it costs to put players like TRUNDLE.BYFIELD,MCINDOE,SPROULE on the pitch and you are 100% correct the increase in fees to watch these players is well justified,however some seem to think these players just grow on trees or will come here without the attractive salarys that go with it.

My two pennys are as long as they are performing on the pitch,producing quality,attractive football then I'm very very happy to pay the extra.

Eight long years in the crap below was really getting to many hardcore fans.

GJ has transformed this club in two years,we have had more exposure in the last two years than the previous six.

SL knows he has a special manager, and rewarded him,again good managers want good money.

Suppose our revenue was poor, do you thinks the likes of the players mentioned above would come,do you think GARY JOHNSON would stay.

I clearly know the answer of course not GARY took Yeovil as far as possible on there resources,We on the other hand have massive potential GJ knows that.the chairman knows that and we the fans know that.

At present we are on a high and long may it continue.

[Frome Valley]

The big trick the club missed was to provide an economical alternative for exisitng fans, in the East End. it is a poor facility, and you could justify the lower price based on that. In fact, looking at current crowds, why not offer an agressively priced 3/4 season ticket just for the East End, this would assist those struggling to meet the financial burden of the rises, at least until we get a new ground/stand (even then a big ground would still enable non prime locations to have a strong price policy, you will pay for what you get).

I am pretty sure those fans who worked to get the East End open wanted to do something like this where they included families, oaps, the unemployed and people with disabilities. They got the worst part of the ground and under sixteen prices above the Atyeo with no under sixteen season tickets at all. They do not even have that now!

The new stand will push up prices even higher as those corporate facilities in the new East End will come at a real cost.I would not suprised to see something akin to the premier club in the middle of the stand.

[old_man_terry]

Bit simplistic.

but in context of the previous comments, it's accurate

They're still not coming even though we've been top and in the top four nearly all season-Now, we can say "**** 'em, hard luck!" or we can look for reasons, listen and even try to win back the 800 ST's that walked and the 70/80 ST's that didn't renew when the Prem was built -and we've lost them for two seasons.On the face of it, that's almost 1,000 fans and it looks like we need them back from where I'm standing.

ahhh, this infamous "800 walked away" comment of yours, the defination of which is being used for a negative spin, when the meaning of it isn't exactly accurate. I had a word to a friend at the gate about this at the weekend and although exect figures were not discussed, I asked her what defined a non-renewal was, and basically, it's someone who didn't renewal there season ticket seat, since there wasn't any renewal discount this season, anyone who moved seat/stand and didn't renew in their existing seat has this season been classed as a non-renewal, i.e anyone moving too/from prem seating, anyone moving to a different seat and anyone who moved into east end, is catergorised into this "800 non-renewals"

Apparently there was also circumstances when the normal phone calls went out asking people to renew, resulted in the caller saying "umm, I have renewed elsewhere in the ground" embrassing that the club didn't know this, yet hardly suprising.

what the exact figure is of people who actually didn't renew is, is unsure, but judging on the 200-300 season ticket holders this season in the East End, it's enough to say that your "magical" 800 is a totally inaccurate figure.

[old_man_terry]

My view, for what is worth is this.

The club did the wrong thing in raising the prices of ALL tickets in the ground. Getting promotion was bound to trigger a price rise. Some people (and I am lucky to include myself) will not be greatly affected by the rises. However, unless you are filling the ground at these prices, there are bound to be a number (and not one of us knows how many that is) who can no longer afford to see all the games, and have been lost. However, any 'real' fan as it seem to have been manipulated into, is likely to see fewer games rather than none at all. In simplistic terms, maybe 40% less. I know that is not precise but you get my point. You have a budget you spend to it. I think people that are saying they cannot afford a season ticket so do not see any games now are rather overstating the situation. There are probably another good number that given the choice of a price rise and playing in the Championship or less money and staying down, would take every time the higher cost.

The big trick the club missed was to provide an economical alternative for exisitng fans, in the East End. it is a poor facility, and you could justify the lower price based on that. In fact, looking at current crowds, why not offer an agressively priced 3/4 season ticket just for the East End, this would assist those struggling to meet the financial burden of the rises, at least until we get a new ground/stand (even then a big ground would still enable non prime locations to have a strong price policy, you will pay for what you get).

problem being though, if they had reduced the prices for City fans in that stand, they would have had to reduce ticket prices for away fans as well,

[old_man_terry]

I can't recall seeing moaning about prices or entertainment on here last season myself, but I'd expect any issue that causes contention between the club and fans to get discussed on and off until it no longer causes contention.

of course there was, not willing to go all the way back to search for old posting (no doubt TomF would complain as well) but there was plenty of people complaining saying, I'm not happy paying £20+ quid for a 1-0 defensive minded win in league 1, plus the "I'm only going if I can go in the east end"

[Frome Valley]

problem being though, if they had reduced the prices for City fans in that stand, they would have had to reduce ticket prices for away fans as well,

For season tickets it would not.

A under sixteen in the East End pays massively more for a season ticket than in the Atyeo.

[rayer]

Terry, is your surname Sextone ? Go on, admit it, don't be shy

[Bristol Boy]

ahhh, this infamous "800 walked away" comment of yours, the defination of which is being used for a negative spin, when the meaning of it isn't exactly accurate. I had a word to a friend at the gate about this at the weekend and although exect figures were not discussed, I asked her what defined a non-renewal was, and basically, it's someone who didn't renewal there season ticket seat, since there wasn't any renewal discount this season, anyone who moved seat/stand and didn't renew in their existing seat has this season been classed as a non-renewal, i.e anyone moving too/from prem seating, anyone moving to a different seat and anyone who moved into east end, is catergorised into this "800 non-renewals"

Might be an idea for your friend to tell the people who sit on the FCF, moreover the people from the club who told them, when asked.

Just for fun, let's assume that the club have got it completely wrong and nobody walked away-Bit far fetched, but just for fun, that would mean, along with the club being incompetent that is, that we have only 2,000 more ST Holders, all of whom appear to have come from POD and not been replaced, hence the fall in the % of POD and not the 2,800 I assumed we had.

The target was 10,000 or about 32%-Very unambitious given promotiom after nine seasons and we acheived about 24%, whilst losing out on POD that averaged 40% last season yet dropped to 24% against Burnley.

Still not great, is it?

And that, rather unrealistically, assumes not one person walked away!

Apparently there was also circumstances when the normal phone calls went out asking people to renew, resulted in the caller saying "umm, I have renewed elsewhere in the ground" embrassing that the club didn't know this, yet hardly suprising.

Shocks me that we could be so Amateur where valued customers are concerned, TBH

what the exact figure is of people who actually didn't renew is, is unsure, but judging on the 200-300 season ticket holders this season in the East End, it's enough to say that your "magical" 800 is a totally inaccurate figure.

After reading that, I'm sure I don't know and, in fairness, neither do you-We could have 3,500 new ST's and even more walked away.

[Bristol Boy]

of course there was, not willing to go all the way back to search for old posting (no doubt TomF would complain as well) but there was plenty of people complaining saying, I'm not happy paying £20+ quid for a 1-0 defensive minded win in league 1, plus the "I'm only going if I can go in the east end"

Bigger questions for City & Football.

A large number of people want to stand and they should be allowed to stand safely as they do abroad where some German fans have more fans standing on end than we get in total-Not terracing, safe standing.They would like to do this without a ST and POD at reasonable cost.

Now you can argue all day and night that they're deluded, that's not the point-The point is that we'd have a darn sight more in AG.

The same applies to pricing and games against Scunny & Burn have seen us get 12,000 & 14,000 which, as the thread starter said is poor for a club and City of our size.

Still, just go on saying it's not money and I'm sure that we'll fill the ground soon.

People are Picking & Choosing, Home & Away.

I don't know of another business that is so unresponsive to customers wishes.

[Red Robin]

Bigger questions for City & Football.

A large number of people want to stand and they should be allowed to stand safely as they do abroad where some German fans have more fans standing on end than we get in total-Not terracing, safe standing.They would like to do this without a ST and POD at reasonable cost.

Now you can argue all day and night that they're deluded, that's not the point-The point is that we'd have a darn sight more in AG.

The same applies to pricing and games against Scunny & Burn have seen us get 12,000 & 14,000 which, as the thread starter said is poor for a club and City of our size.

Still, just go on saying it's not money and I'm sure that we'll fill the ground soon.

People are Picking & Choosing, Home & Away.

I don't know of another business that is so unresponsive to customers wishes.

BB,

Many seem to be takeing the high road to away games, the atmosphere is electric,simply grounds we have not seen or even been to under our eight year tenancy in the lower leagues.

Yes AG has been electric this season,have not heard so many backing the boys for a long long time,however the lure of championship away grounds could be affecting home attendances.

Nobody has even considered this to date.

[we_are_sunderland]

prices are extashunate these days. went to see the lads v boro at the weekend and had to pay £31 for my ticket. i must admit though at the sol we have quite god prices, thats why we are regularly getting 40, 45,000 at most games. i think we have got it right. speaking to the girl in the ticket office today already 43,000 tickets have been sold for a bog standard game against blackbaurn.

HA'WAY THE LADS!