Crowd Today Concerning

[Brizred]

Who says these non league players would go to the games and are even City fans?!

The point being made is Bristol has a bigger population than many other places but the amount of football in this area compared to other areas imo affects the professional game here, in my experience if you didn't play, coach, manage or support a non-league club, then the majority of these people would watch a pro game.

[Redminster]

I think you have to come to terms that Bristol not unlike Cardiff is not a footballing city - the politicians seem to think that the arts are more important and gala weekends like the balloon fesitval is more worthy thing to support than an ongoing commitment to professional sport in the area. The general public have lots of choices nowadays - nearly laughed myself off the road during the summer when I drove past the Polo match that the toffs had put on - yet it seemed busy regardless of my views of the notion that Polo is a sport and it's follows are toff nosed uperclassed stuck in the wrong century twits.

A footballing city I would argue has two things that Bristol doesnt - a mental attitude amongst the population that they want it's local team to do well which materialises as a talking point for the week - In Bristol we get confrontation between the two sets of supporters and apathy from the rest. The other is the politcal motivation to support the local professional sports.

Bristol is an affluent area and if people want to spend their money on other leisure activities it is not solely down to money. The way to attract regluar supporters is very simple - high positions in the championship and ultimately premiership football.

Take isolated crowd figures for what they are - an idication of what the circumstances of the match were, was it early season, mid season with something to play for or late season with and without something to play for, look at the quality of the opposition and the style they play, is it close to xmas, were there 2 matches at home in the week, is the game being televised etc... etc... The true gauge as to whether City are attracting more support is to look at the end of the season and compare the averages - if our average has gone up then getting promotion was a good step forward to increading support, what else need to occur to ensure the increase in supporters continues to grow in future seasons, attract good players, play good attractive football and a step towards the playoffs and so on untilwe have to the point where we are similar to Aston Villa, Wigan, Bolton and the TV money can subsidise the price on the gate and specials and offers for families etc... e.g the club has realised that saturation point for support and needs to induce people through price incentives.

14,000 is a reasonable number for Burnley following a Tuesday night WBA match,early season etc... There are certainly footballing families in this non footballing city of ours but there is nowhere near the number of footballing families that you would find in Manchester, Glasgow, Newcastle, Sunderland or Liverpool and whilst Bristol is such an affluent area the challenge is to make City an affluent person's activity on a Saturday rather than go sailing/visit art centres/go to rugby/ go to polo/play some golf etc.. etc...

Top, top post.

Our slightly disappointing crowds this season seem to be due to 3 factors:

1. Both teams in Bristol are historically unsuccessful and many, many Bristolians choose to turn their back on their local clubs because "they are crap" and choose to "support" Man U or whoever. I've heard this repeatedly. Also having Rovers as a minor inconvenience means that the local media and council can't jump on the bandwagon, support us and promote us to the public.

2. As I said above, Bristol has a massive transient student and professional population who couldn't give two hoots about City. Bristol is different to some other cities in this respect as many working people from elsewhere seem to choose to settle here permanently. I know many people in this position through work and socially and when I've invited them down the Gate they've mostly declined or been put off by the ticket prices (even last year in League 1).

3. The main issue as most have identified - POTD/ST prices. ST prices were about £40-50 overpriced and POTD about £5 too steep in every position in the ground, if CS was really serious about filling the ground. IMO with these prices WBA would have been a near sell-out and we would have had 16k there yesterday. To claim that the club researched other championship clubs before coming up with the prices is I'm sure perfectly truthful; unfortunately it was done with the mindset "what can we possibly get away with?" rather than "what would pack the punters in and get great crowds?". As others have pointed out, I think that if the latter had been adopted then we would have seen larger matchday revenue for the club due an extra 2-3k in the ground on average, despite the lower prices.

[Nibor]

Nibor,

I think our fees to watch the footy served so far have been excellent value for money,too many are shunning the reds which is concerning,Bristol and the surrounding areas which cover 20 miles radius is massive and we can not get 19000 fans into AG when we are fighting for top.

That's because it's not excellent value for money by any stretch of the imagination. £30 for a seat in the Dolman. If you want to take your kids and missus you're looking at spending a ton easily for two hours entertainment. It's completely crap value for money.

Sorry are true support at moment is poor in attendance take the 1500+ Burnley out of the equation and we had 12500 city in there today,with 10000 season ticket holders that means 2500 pay on the days that is a absolute joke for the catchment area.

Our "true support" has been far better than the loyalty shown to them by the club would deserve. The size of the catchment area is irrelevant if you price people out.

City have been out of this League for eight years this surly has to be a big incentive to the people of Bristol.

It doesn't matter how much of a big incentive it is.

You just don't get it do you?

A Ferrari is a great car but it doesn't matter how great it is most people can't afford one.

I tried telling you this at the start of the season and you wouldn't hear a word of it, so why are you now whining about the crowds?

[Nibor]

What, like todays 14k +

PDG

1k of the crowd were Burnley fans meaning home attendance was about 13k (of which 9.6k were ST Holders).

We had only 14.5k home fans in the week for West Brom - one of the best sides we'll see this season, over 2k of the 16.5k attendance were West Brom fans.

If you ignore the opening day anomaly the home attendances so far this season have been piss poor despite us being in a position none of us dreamed of.

There can only be one reason for that.

[Gerry Gows' Tash]

That's because it's not excellent value for money by any stretch of the imagination. £30 for a seat in the Dolman. If you want to take your kids and missus you're looking at spending a ton easily for two hours entertainment. It's completely crap value for money.

Don't take them then ? I don't take mine, partly because footy is just about my only bit of "man time" and partly becsue, if you take 4 people, (compared to 1) anywhere, it gets expensive

[Nibor]

Don't take them then ? I don't take mine, partly because footy is just about my only bit of "man time" and partly becsue, if you take 4 people, (compared to 1) anywhere, it gets expensive

I wouldn't but I suspect for the many families who make up that 40k we can take to Wembley it's all or nothing. Why come to Ashton Gate when they can go do something else probably for half the price and twice the time?

[zookeeper]

Anything is that sensitive to price when you approach the maximum people actually can pay. There's a point beyond which they just can't do it no matter how much they want what the money buys. This is something the likes of Red Robin don't seem to understand, just because you can pay it it doesn't mean everyone else can or that they're an embarrassment and not proper fans when they don't.

I believe we stepped over the line of what actually is affordable for some people for the first time with this season's hike. It will do us no good in the longer term.

Yes, you are right but as soon as it drops below a maximum the sensitivity of a product that has such a huge brand appeal and loyal customer base is not very. It would have to be quite a dramatic drop in the price in my belief which makes the pricing justifiable.

I don't necessary believe that it's affordable for the masses and wouldn't argue this case. It is probably making sense of the bank balance though. If we are succesful then long term it will mean that we can invest in the team, if we aren't succesful then there is real danger. That's risk.

[Redtucks]

That's because it's not excellent value for money by any stretch of the imagination. £30 for a seat in the Dolman. If you want to take your kids and missus you're looking at spending a ton easily for two hours entertainment. It's completely crap value for money.

Just a comparison - Brian Wilson appeared in front of a full house at the Colston Hall on Tuesday night.

That was at £50 a ticket, or £200 for you, your missus and two kids, for not much more than two hours entertainment.

I don't know whether that's value for money.

Those that attended presumably thought so.

[Henry]

Just a comparison - Brian Wilson appeared in front of a full house at the Colston Hall on Tuesday night.

That was at £50 a ticket, or £200 for you, your missus and two kids, for not much more than two hours entertainment.

I don't know whether that's value for money.

Those that attended presumably thought so.

But that isnt on every week for 9months of the year.

[Red Robin]

That's because it's not excellent value for money by any stretch of the imagination. £30 for a seat in the Dolman. If you want to take your kids and missus you're looking at spending a ton easily for two hours entertainment. It's completely crap value for money.

Our "true support" has been far better than the loyalty shown to them by the club would deserve. The size of the catchment area is irrelevant if you price people out.

It doesn't matter how much of a big incentive it is.

You just don't get it do you?

A Ferrari is a great car but it doesn't matter how great it is most people can't afford one.

I tried telling you this at the start of the season and you wouldn't hear a word of it, so why are you now whining about the crowds?

Take the population of Bristol and surrounding areas and with all due respect many many can afford the footy,anybody would think our priceing structure is completly out of touch with other football clubs around the country.

Secondly we all expected price rises from the rubbish we removed ourselves from,yes we STs should have been given a incentive,however the glory boys returning should expect to pay higher prices to watch.

[Robbored]

Take the population of Bristol and surrounding areas and with all due respect many many can afford the footy,anybody would think our priceing structure is completly out of touch with other football clubs around the country.

Secondly we all expected price rises from the rubbish we removed ourselves from,yes we STs should have been given a incentive,however the glory boys returning should expect to pay higher prices to watch.

City had approx 3800 'casual' supporters yesterday. Do you suppose that if the POD prices were, say £3 per seat lower all round that there would have been a far larger take up from those that don't have ST's?

[Nibor]

Take the population of Bristol and surrounding areas and with all due respect many many can afford the footy,anybody would think our priceing structure is completly out of touch with other football clubs around the country.

That's the way Sexstone thinks however it's fundamentally flawed.

We're not competing with clubs around the country for fans. Noone who comes to watch Bristol City is going to go to Plymouth cos it's cheaper.

It's nothing to do with us being out of touch with other football clubs, it's to do with football all round the country being out of touch with fans.

Look at what some Premiership clubs had to do to get people to come. Hell even Chelski had to drop prices for European Champions League football and it didn't work.

Secondly we all expected price rises from the rubbish we removed ourselves from,yes we STs should have been given a incentive,however the glory boys returning should expect to pay higher prices to watch.

There's a different between price rises and the 40% price hike we took.

[MarcusX]

Speaking to a GAS SUPPORTING mate last night, he asked who I go with each game and I said alone.

He told me he'd come with me MOST weeks if he knew i went alone, then I mentioned the ticket prices...

And before anyone says not a loyal gas fan etc, in his defense I'm sure watching city with me is mroe fun than watching gas alone.

[Nibor]

Just a comparison - Brian Wilson appeared in front of a full house at the Colston Hall on Tuesday night.

That was at £50 a ticket, or £200 for you, your missus and two kids, for not much more than two hours entertainment.

I don't know whether that's value for money.

Those that attended presumably thought so.

I wouldn't have attended at that price and I would quite happily bet there aren't 16,000 people in Bristol who would have either, particularly 23 weeks a year.

I think it's a case of appealing to a different crowd.

Tickets for the Last Night of the Proms go for £700, doubt those people will be interested in coming to the gate.

[xerox6060]

I think people might have to move away from seeing Football as a pay on the day thing, people have to make a decision and book in advance to get the prices down a little, you don't normally just turn up for the theatre and rightly or wrongly footy has gone the same way.

[Nibor]

Yes, you are right but as soon as it drops below a maximum the sensitivity of a product that has such a huge brand appeal and loyal customer base is not very. It would have to be quite a dramatic drop in the price in my belief which makes the pricing justifiable.

I don't necessary believe that it's affordable for the masses and wouldn't argue this case. It is probably making sense of the bank balance though. If we are succesful then long term it will mean that we can invest in the team, if we aren't succesful then there is real danger. That's risk.

I think people tend to fix the limit of what they can afford around a round number. I reckon £30 was what topped it for a lot of people, the psychology just kicked in and they decided they can't afford to pay that.

[Redtucks]

But that isnt on every week for 9months of the year.

I am coming to every home game over 9 months and it's costing me £16.30 per game (Atyeo) which I don't find excessive in comparison to other grounds or other forms of live entertainment.

[Nibor]

I am coming to every home game over 9 months and it's costing me £16.30 per game (Atyeo) which I don't find excessive in comparison to other grounds or other forms of live entertainment.

Noone has the option of paying that now though do they?

Ticket prices range from £23-£30 +5%.

Everyone who is going to buy a season ticket has one. If we want to get big crowds it's the match tickets we need to sell and the evidence thus far is not encouraging really.

[Northern Red]

I thought it refreshing to her Birminghams chairman saying in the week, that prices were ridiculous, and clubs need to collectively drop admission prices, but couldn't see them all taking a blind bit of notice.

Until clubs start going to the wall every other week, I just can't see it ever improving.

Refreshing maybe, but I assume this is the same Birmingham that are charging Man Utd fans £45 to visit next weekend, and Aston Villa £55 later on this season.

[Redtucks]

Noone has the option of paying that now though do they?

Ticket prices range from £23-£30 +5%.

Everyone who is going to buy a season ticket has one. If we want to get big crowds it's the match tickets we need to sell and the evidence thus far is not encouraging really.

I agree.

I was just responding to Henrys point about attending for 9 months. If that's what you're going to do, a season ticket is still good value for money.

It costs me a lot more for travel and admission to every away match, but our pay on the day prices are still pretty comparable with those at most other grounds at this level.

[Red Robin]

I agree.

I was just responding to Henrys point about attending for 9 months. If that's what you're going to do, a season ticket is still good value for money.

It costs me a lot more for travel and admission to every away match, but our pay on the day prices are still pretty comparable with those at most other grounds at this level.

Redtucks,

You talk complete sence the price you are paying in the ateyo is excellent value for money,personally sit in dolman much prefer a sideways view of the game.

I'm sorry if people take exception but £16.25 is not dear to watch championship footy,too many are fixated by a price rise,yes to pay on the day should be dearer and qiute rightly,STs watch every game.

Reference away footy personally prefer it to home game,take Coventry away approx 4000 city there many many are STs,it costs double amount to watch the away games but we certainly are not moaning at the prices,I would rather spend in my short amount of relaxation time watching the city home and away as oppossed to buying 100 fags and drinking in the boozer most nights.

[bh_red]

The first four home games last time we were at this level (1998/99)

Oxford Utd: 13,279

Watford: 13,063

Huddersfield Town: 11,801

WBA: 13,761

A slight improvement this time around.

spot on!!!

something I mentioned a couple of weeks back, fact is that the Bristol public don't have a great effection for Bristol City, they didn't turn up in force last time we were in this league so why are they automatcially expected to turn up now?

price issue is just an excuse that basically fanbase wise, we aren't as big a club as many think we are, premiership football is dished up cheaply and easily on sky these days and unless Bristol City are there, we aren't going to have a situation where Ashton Gate is sold out week on week all season,

either way, average attendance is at their highest in a VERY long, it's more than just money reason fans aren't interested in the club, all those of us that can do is enjoy what we are getting, those that still aren't interested.......it's their loss

[Alex_BCFC]

Comparing then and now isn't very useful because in general attendances are up aren't they?

[richieb]

You've completely lost touch with reality.

The ticket prices were too far for many people and certainly for the more casual supporter that turned up for big games last season and might have thought about a season ticket this season. It was obvious at the time they were announced, you remember - while you were telling everyone how wonderfully lucky we were to be able to pay them to watch Championship football.

The fact is, the floating supporter is not going to come out to many games for £30 a seat no matter how well we're doing, they will pick the big ones. We'll have 14-15k home fans for the likes of Charlton, Cardiff, Southampton (who will all bring 2k+ away fans as well) but mainly more attendances like today for the other games.

The club should have gone for a 20% rise, shown a bit of loyalty to long term supporters and they'd be packing in a fair few more IMO.

Totally agree, I know a few people who didn't renew & I haven't actually seen them this season.

Personally, I don't think the board worry about the numbers.

SL would prefer to take more money off the few, rather than boost the numbers & give the Bristol footballing public the chance to watch CCC footy.

SL knew what he was doing when the prices were announced & knew that the loyal bunch would cough up. And that alone was enough revenue to give GJ the funds required.

Short sighted IMHO, as we could have generated as much revenue, with a 15/20% increase & sold more tickets.

[Nibor]

Comparing then and now isn't very useful because in general attendances are up aren't they?

Average attendance in this division in 02/03 = 15435

Average attendance in this division in 06/07 = 18547

(02/03 was the earliest figure I could find on the FL site).

Seems like they've gone up 20% in 4 years.

So yes, it's not useful to compare at all really.

[Bristol Boy]

The point being made is Bristol has a bigger population than many other places but the amount of football in this area compared to other areas imo affects the professional game here, in my experience if you didn't play, coach, manage or support a non-league club, then the majority of these people would watch a pro game.

Sweeping generalisation and very difficult to prove.If people prefer to play than watch they probably wouldn't come anyway and it's a bit tenuos to imagine that all those players are City fans.I'm sure if that could be proven we would be have done a Tranmere and moved home games to a Friday evening years ago

I think people might have to move away from seeing Football as a pay on the day thing, people have to make a decision and book in advance to get the prices down a little, you don't normally just turn up for the theatre and rightly or wrongly footy has gone the same way.

Thanks exactly how CS wants it.It won't work as football isn't the theatre and never will be.Selling Twenty three home games isn't the same as selling Phil Collins out once every three years in the south west.

[bh_red]

Average attendance in this division in 02/03 = 15435

Average attendance in this division in 06/07 = 18547

(02/03 was the earliest figure I could find on the FL site).

Seems like they've gone up 20% in 4 years.

So yes, it's not useful to compare at all really.

maybe

last season 06/07 - 18547

last season in this league 98/99 - 13665

which is an increase when you look at it like that,

however when you look at last season only 2 clubs had attendances below 10k in Luton and Colchester are barely any other teams that could be classed as small clubs whereas last time we were in this league you had ALOT of small clubs with less than 10k crowds such as Swindon, Stockport, Port Vale, Grimbsy, Bury and Crewe, so to base it wholly on the total average attendance doesn't really compare, especailly when you consider that last time we up here, Sunderland also dragged the attedances up with a average of 38k+ compared to last seasons 31k.

last season in this league majority of attedances were actually down, but alls that's besides the point,

My point is Desipte people complaining about cost, City's attendances are MAJORLY up so far this season and at current rate will easily beat our recent seasons at this level and look to be the highest since 1980 when we were last in the top flight.

At the end of the season despite people still possibly moaning, The board are going to be able to point at that stat and will be able to use it as a stat to say, the prices rises were justifed and people have still turned up (not that I like it)

[Bristol Boy]

At the end of the season despite people still possibly moaning, The board are going to be able to point at that stat and will be able to use it as a stat to say, the prices rises were justifed and people have still turned up (not that I like it)

While they're at it perhaps they can let us know how much more money they'd have made had they sold the 800 ST's that walked away in a promotion season-Always assuming of course that we're still in the CCC or above!

Attendances may be up on last season but POD is down, particularly in % terms on our average for last season, based on 7,600 ST's and average gates of 12,800 inc smaller away support and that was always likely and a worry.The extra 2,000 ST's we've sold are POD conversions and, based on the price differential and how often they came last season, that may actually be costing us money in the Long Term.

Pricing is an issue and the whole thing needs looking at particularly if we drop down the table which some may say is likely.

Another issue is that next season the novelty may well have worn off for a few and I'm convinced that another price hike would see at least another 1,000 ST holders walk-In fact even a smaller rise (10%) could well have that effect.

[Nibor]

My point is Desipte people complaining about cost, City's attendances are MAJORLY up so far this season and at current rate will easily beat our recent seasons at this level and look to be the highest since 1980 when we were last in the top flight.

They're not though are they? Home fan attendance so far is only slightly increased on last season despite promotion.

In fact it's far lower that last time we were in this division taking into account what's happened to crowds over football as a whole.

Bottom line is that every home game so far there have been empty seats and I for one believe some of those would have been filled with more reasonable pricing. There's ample anecdotal evidence on this forum from people who can't now afford it to support that.

[punnett]

Redtucks,

You talk complete sence the price you are paying in the ateyo is excellent value for money,personally sit in dolman much prefer a sideways view of the game.

I'm sorry if people take exception but £16.25 is not dear to watch championship footy,too many are fixated by a price rise,yes to pay on the day should be dearer and qiute rightly,STs watch every game.

Reference away footy personally prefer it to home game,take Coventry away approx 4000 city there many many are STs,it costs double amount to watch the away games but we certainly are not moaning at the prices,I would rather spend in my short amount of relaxation time watching the city home and away as oppossed to buying 100 fags and drinking in the boozer most nights.

I took my 5 yr old with me to Cov, admission was £32 for the 2 of us, i took him in the Dolman with me on Saturday, admission was £44, 40% more than the far superior ricoh stadium, it doesn't take brain of britain to work out where the problem lies, £16 FOR A 5 YEAR OLD is a scandalous price, at the moment we are flying high in the league but i dread to think what the crowds will be on a cold winters day/night, when mid-table against colchester, barnsley etc,