Ten Match Review & Ratings

[Bristol Boy]

http://www.bristolcityst.org.uk/back_page/...cle000385.shtml

[Alex_BCFC]

Interesting. How do get Elliott as low as a 7 over the 10 games?

[Bristol Boy]

Interesting. How do get Elliott as low as a 7 over the 10 games?

Remember it takes into account all ten games, not just the home ones.

[badger22]

Elliott 7?

[Bristol Boy]

Elliott 7?

See above.

Ten games, add the ratings each game, divide by ten.

Elliott hasn't, IMHO, done as well away from home, for example at PNE & Barnsley.It's all about opinions of course however it'smeasuring consistency and that could be why we've drawn so many games.

In five home games Elliotts had four eights.He's yet to get one away.

[Henry]

Fair enough it your opinion, but I think its rather bizarre and in the minority.

[Alex_BCFC]

I missed Preston but don't remember him playign badly in any away game and if anything he was doing OK at Barnsley until he went off injured. Just suprised he has got 7- personally I think he has been our best performer so far.

[scumbag]

I missed Preston but don't remember him playign badly in any away game and if anything he was doing OK at Barnsley until he went off injured. Just suprised he has got 7- personally I think he has been our best performer so far.

totally agree, only game I've missed so far is Barnsley, been a serious contendor for each match I've been to so far, would be a 8 from me without doubt, also feel McIndoe rating very harsh especially considering how high McAllister's rating is despite some very average performances, can understand Basso, Fontaine and Carey maybe getting higher ratings than Elliott but after that ELLIOT no doubt from me.

BB's Ratings

BASSO: 8.12

FONTAINE: 7.9

CAREY: 7.7

ORR: 7.2

MCALLISTER: 7.2

ELLIOTT: 7

MURRAY: 6.7

WILSON: 6.6

BYFIELD: 6.5

McINDOE: 6.3

JOHNSON: 6

SKUSE: 6

TRUNDLE: 5.8

SPROULE: 5.7

[Slave to the rhythm]

totally agree, only game I've missed so far is Barnsley, been a serious contendor for each match I've been to so far, would be a 8 from me without doubt, also feel McIndoe rating very harsh especially considering how high McAllister's rating is despite some very average performances, can understand Basso, Fontaine and Carey maybe getting higher ratings than Elliott but after that ELLIOT no doubt from me.

BB's Ratings

BASSO: 8.12

FONTAINE: 7.9

CAREY: 7.7

ORR: 7.2

MCALLISTER: 7.2

ELLIOTT: 7

MURRAY: 6.7

WILSON: 6.6

BYFIELD: 6.5

McINDOE: 6.3

JOHNSON: 6

SKUSE: 6

TRUNDLE: 5.8

SPROULE: 5.7

Interesting that nobody is querying the low ratings for Trundle and Sproule - probably our two most expensive signings. These two must start to deliver the goods for us soon otherwise the Chairman will really question whether he should continue to back Johnson in the transfer market.

[RedM]

Sproule had a 4 game suspension don't forget.

[Bristol Boy]

totally agree, only game I've missed so far is Barnsley, been a serious contendor for each match I've been to so far, would be a 8 from me without doubt, also feel McIndoe rating very harsh especially considering how high McAllister's rating is despite some very average performances, can understand Basso, Fontaine and Carey maybe getting higher ratings than Elliott but after that ELLIOT no doubt from me.

So, if Elliott gets an eight, should Carey & Fontaine get nines and Basso a ten?

That would mean, for example, that Basso has been perfect....absolutely pefect in every game he's played and that's not ever going to be the case over ten matches

It's really interesting how very few people questioned the ratings at the time, yet looking at the block of ten and where we are, some see it differently.

The idea was to engender some decent debate in a flat news week and that's worked.

[Bristol Boy]

Interesting that nobody is querying the low ratings for Trundle and Sproule - probably our two most expensive signings. These two must start to deliver the goods for us soon otherwise the Chairman will really question whether he should continue to back Johnson in the transfer market.

Sproule had a 4 game suspension don't forget.

Good points, both and thanks for the reply.

On the basis that the combined cost was about £1.25-£1.5m depending on which website or paper you read, their sum total is two goals and three assists, there is still a lot more to come and both players and the manager, to their credit, have said the same.Well done to GJ for dropping both players & Vasko.That takes guts when your Chairman's looking for a return on capital invested and you may be looking for him to back your judgement again in January, but will pay us back in spades in terms of getting the best out of the squad.

In terms of what the ratings mean and in trying to be as objective as a fan can be:

RATINGS:

1.Abysmall in every sense and probably got an own goal or two!

2.As above, but at least had his shirt on the right way around and his boots on the right feet.

3.Ultra Poor.

4.V Poor.Let the side down and played nowhere near his ability level.

5.Average.Capable of a lot more.

6.Did OK, but nothing special and probably needs to up his game.

7.Good.Did his job and more.

8.V Good.

9.Excellent.An outstanding, match winning contribution.

10.Out of This World.Well above what was required and more than could ever reasonably be expected.

[scumbag]

totally agree, only game I've missed so far is Barnsley, been a serious contendor for each match I've been to so far, would be a 8 from me without doubt, also feel McIndoe rating very harsh especially considering how high McAllister's rating is despite some very average performances, can understand Basso, Fontaine and Carey maybe getting higher ratings than Elliott but after that ELLIOT no doubt from me.

So, if Elliott gets an eight, should Carey & Fontaine get nines and Basso a ten?

That would mean, for example, that Basso has been perfect....absolutely pefect in every game he's played and that's not ever going to be the case over ten matches

It's really interesting how very few people questioned the ratings at the time, yet looking at the block of ten and where we are, some see it differently.

The idea was to engender some decent debate in a flat news week and that's worked.

sorry, don't generally read your reviews just normally the official site and maybe the WDP/EP so unsure of other ratings you may have given,

why would carey or fontanie get nines or basso a ten? that makes no sense? when you have players with 7.9, 8.2 etc..... personally think Carey, Fontaine and Basso are points deserved, but believe over the course of the season so far Elliott deserves more than 7 and has at least had an equal impact of Fontaine/Carey and more positive impact than Orr and Certainaly Macalister

[Bristol Boy]

sorry, don't generally read your reviews just normally the official site and maybe the WDP/EP so unsure of other ratings you may have given,

why would carey or fontanie get nines or basso a ten? that makes no sense? when you have players with 7.9, 8.2 etc..... personally think Carey, Fontaine and Basso are points deserved, but believe over the course of the season so far Elliott deserves more than 7 and has at least had an equal impact of Fontaine/Carey and more positive impact than Orr and Certainaly Macalister

I do it on a game by game basis and the ten match ratings are simply an amalgamation of those turned into an average by games played.In terms of Elliott, he's a more effective player at home, IMHO and therefore rates more highly.In terms of an average he probably suffers slightly from playing all ten!

In our away games:Blackpool, Weds, Coventry, PNE & Barnsley the highest mark he got was a 7 and the rest were sixes.Looking back, I wouldn't have marked him any higher and our midfield was outplayed an overrun at Blackpool, Weds & Barnsley-PNE was a poor overall performance and Barnsley was the same.Neither despite winning 3-0, did we dominate the midfield at Coventry.

When you add all that up, that's the explanation.

[scumbag]

I do it on a game by game basis and the ten match ratings are simply an amalgamation of those turned into an average by games played.In terms of Elliott, he's a more effective player at home, IMHO and therefore rates more highly.In terms of an average he probably suffers slightly from playing all ten!

In our away games:Blackpool, Weds, Coventry, PNE & Barnsley the highest mark he got was a 7 and the rest were sixes.Looking back, I wouldn't have marked him any higher and our midfield was outplayed an overrun at Blackpool, Weds & Barnsley-PNE was a poor overall performance and Barnsley was the same.Neither despite winning 3-0, did we dominate the midfield at Coventry.

When you add all that up, that's the explanation.

disagree, from the games I've seen this seen this season (all bar barnsley) still believe he is more worth at least 7.5-8

[Alex_BCFC]

disagree, from the games I've seen this seen this season (all bar barnsley) still believe he is more worth at least 7.5-8

I would tend to agree.

As for Sproule- he is low because he hasn't had a chance to play in his real position until the last game.

[Redbarn]

Good points, both and thanks for the reply.

On the basis that the combined cost was about £1.25-£1.5m depending on which website or paper you read, their sum total is two goals and three assists, there is still a lot more to come and both players and the manager, to their credit, have said the same.Well done to GJ for dropping both players & Vasko.That takes guts when your Chairman's looking for a return on capital invested and you may be looking for him to back your judgement again in January, but will pay us back in spades in terms of getting the best out of the squad.

In terms of what the ratings mean and in trying to be as objective as a fan can be:

RATINGS:

1.Abysmall in every sense and probably got an own goal or two!

2.As above, but at least had his shirt on the right way around and his boots on the right feet.

3.Ultra Poor.

4.V Poor.Let the side down and played nowhere near his ability level.

5.Average.Capable of a lot more.

6.Did OK, but nothing special and probably needs to up his game.

7.Good.Did his job and more.

8.V Good.

9.Excellent.An outstanding, match winning contribution.

10.Out of This World.Well above what was required and more than could ever reasonably be expected.

OK BB, thats all well and good, but, I am scratching my head as to Basso's 8.12?...have you invented your very own counting system?...surely in the decimal system 8.12 would be 9.2!

[Bristol Boy]

OK BB, thats all well and good, but, I am scratching my head as to Basso's 8.12?...have you invented your very own counting system?...surely in the decimal system 8.12 would be 9.2!

Stop scratching.

Basso's scored 65 points in the games he's played at an average of 8.125 to be precise.

[Claverham_Red]

I would tend to agree.

As for Sproule- he is low because he hasn't had a chance to play in his real position until the last game.

I agree with that. When he has played on the right he looks twice the player than up front. Looked menacing against WBA for the last stages of that game, and again lively last Saturday against Sheffield United.

Pretty much agree with BB's ratings - but slightly surprised by Elliot's rating, like other's have already suggested. That said, I've only seen one away game this term - Coventry - so I can understand why his rating is lower. In terms of 'home player of the season thus far' he wins it hands down.

[Bristol Boy]

I agree with that. When he has played on the right he looks twice the player than up front. Looked menacing against WBA for the last stages of that game, and again lively last Saturday against Sheffield United.

I think I've said that in almost all of the reviews and Jevons in particular has a right to feel hard done by at not being given a chance.That being said, I thought Sproule probably had his best game against Sheff Utd, but only based on the second half and I expect a lot more from him, given the fee.

That said, I've only seen one away game this term - Coventry - so I can understand why his rating is lower. In terms of 'home player of the season thus far' he wins it hands down.

That's an astute comment-In terms of home games only, he gets a 7.6 (4 x 8's & 6 v Burnley)

[Guest Garfunkle]

BB do you own an anorak?

[REDOXO]

Interesting that nobody is querying the low ratings for Trundle and Sproule - probably our two most expensive signings. These two must start to deliver the goods for us soon otherwise the Chairman will really question whether he should continue to back Johnson in the transfer market.

Mr Johnson 's entries into the transfer market since taking over...mmm....Lets have a look see

Please anyone correct me if I'm wrong

Basso

Fontaine

McCallister

Elliott

Wilson

Byefield

McIndoe

Johnson

All in a first team that currently lies 4th in the Championwship....Trundle and Sproule have not hit top form yet, however Sproule showed some very decent signs agains Sheff Utd and Trundle came on and did well especially holding the ball-up in the same game....

If I were Mr Landsdowne I would not think twice about backing the judgement of a manager that Cleared out a dressing room full of losers, got us almost into the play offs that season....Won promotion the following season, despite having three first team players bangged up, bought in huge revenue through a thrilling cup run and has got the best out of platers such as Orr/Carey/Skuse and Murray (at the age of 34 more or less)...

Yep I expect Steve has sleepless nights over Gary Johnsons ability to manage a football team bring out the best in people and bring in new faces....

[Bristol Boy]

BB do you own an anorak?

Couldn't lend me yours, could you?

Mr Johnson 's entries into the transfer market since taking over...mmm....Lets have a look see

Please anyone correct me if I'm wrong

Basso

Fontaine

McCallister

Elliott

Wilson

Byefield

McIndoe

Johnson

You missed McCombe who, at £5k, was arguably the best of them all & Noble.Jevons, whilst disappointing in the eyes of many including me, was our top scorer and takes a mean penalty (apart from at Boro) and Betsy who, I think most people would say has been a disappointment.

We'll leave aside the loans in the early days in the interest of harmony and if that was deliberate and in the grand scheme of improvement, super.

Of the major money signings, I think it's fair to say that McIndoe's shown up the best of the three although we need to see more.Trundle & Sproule are the two that haven't acheived real consistency yet and Sproule has been played out of position in the main.

[REDOXO]

Couldn't lend me yours, could you?

Mr Johnson 's entries into the transfer market since taking over...mmm....Lets have a look see

Please anyone correct me if I'm wrong

Basso

Fontaine

McCallister

Elliott

Wilson

Byefield

McIndoe

Johnson

You missed McCombe who, at £5k, was arguably the best of them all & Noble.Jevons, whilst disappointing in the eyes of many including me, was our top scorer and takes a mean penalty (apart from at Boro) and Betsy who, I think most people would say has been a disappointment.

Thanks for adding McCombe and Noble to the players mentioned whose inclusion clearly supports the point I was making to the post I answered...Gary Johnson does know what he is doing in the dressing room on the field and in the transfer market and Steve Landsdowne will support him...End of

However some other comments

Jeavons was the first choice centre forward for a team that after 8 long years finally got promoted...In view of this I'm not so sure I would say he was that disappointing he did what he was bought to do score goals and bring others into the play in Div3 football...We were promoted...Were we not...Betsy also came into push us into the promised land the fact is, he is not in the side because McIndoe and Sproule/Murray are keeping him out...Or perhaps a triangular pitch should be considered to accomodate three wingers...Betsy had a decent pre-season but the manager bought high priced players largely because SL has money to spend and started with them....

We'll leave aside the loans in the early days in the interest of harmony and if that was deliberate and in the grand scheme of improvement, super.

I'm not sure what you mean here and you are clearly aware of something please clarify

Of the major money signings, I think it's fair to say that McIndoe's shown up the best of the three although we need to see more.Trundle & Sproule are the two that haven't acheived real consistency yet and Sproule has been played out of position in the main.

Agree completely McIndoe has shown more than Sproule and Trundle...

I sometimes find you a little bit difficult to read BB..

So let me ask you

Are you happy we were promoted?

Do you not like Gary Johnson/Are you happy with the manager (I was once told you had a stand up row with the guy...Not sure if this is true)?

Are you happy with our cùrrent position?

Do you believe we can challenge this season?

Do you think you should spend more time with Mrs BB?

[Robbored]

I sometimes find you a little bit difficult to read BB..

So let me ask you

Are you happy we were promoted?

Do you not like Gary Johnson/Are you happy with the manager (I was once told you had a stand up row with the guy...Not sure if this is true)?

Are you happy with our cùrrent position?

Do you believe we can challenge this season?

Do you think you should spend more time with Mrs BB?

Red - you have to remember that reviews and ratings are by their very defination, subjective. BB has simply given his opinion even though its dressed up as being definative. Like you I don't happen to agree with most of BB view on the ratings but thats what football is all about - opinions.

Despite BB's abundance of postings he still finds time to go to almost all City's games both home and away and in that respect is beter qualified to comment than most who go regularly to AG with the occaisional away game thrown in - like me.

[Bristol Boy]

Thanks for adding McCombe and Noble to the players mentioned whose inclusion clearly supports the point I was making to the post I answered...Gary Johnson does know what he is doing in the dressing room on the field and in the transfer market and Steve Landsdowne will support him...End of

I added McCombe & Noble in to support the point you were making and Jevons & Betsy in order to add balance.Like all managers, the greats included, GJ will make good and bad signings and that will be increased when, as he has here, he brings in and releases a huge number of players in his two year spell in charge.He has done a good job and nobody can say otherwise but that, like the signings, doesn't make him omnipotent.

Please don't end comments or opinions with "End Of" because that went out with 1970's & 1980's Junior Management speak and it clearly isn't the end of anything.It may be your view and you're fully entitled to it, but we're discussing and debating here.

However some other comments

Jeavons was the first choice centre forward for a team that after 8 long years finally got promoted...In view of this I'm not so sure I would say he was that disappointing he did what he was bought to do score goals and bring others into the play in Div3 football...We were promoted...Were we not.

From a distance, that's a very simplistic view and, whilst he played regularly, I wouldn't describe him as first choice however, with Brooker & Showunmi in the treatment room, Jevons became a regular starter.His League record was 11 goals inc four penalties and, whilst his goal scoring picked up in the cup, that isn't great.He suffered in the same way as Trundle does in terms of the service he received and playing it at his head or into the channell isn't the way to get the best out of Jevo.We were promoted inspite of our strikers last season, not because of them.

Betsy also came into push us into the promised land the fact is, he is not in the side because McIndoe and Sproule/Murray are keeping him out...Or perhaps a triangular pitch should be considered to accomodate three wingers...Betsy had a decent pre-season but the manager bought high priced players largely because SL has money to spend and started with them....

I think you over estimate SL's expenditure and under estimate the clubs.He is our main shareholder and Chairman, not a benefactor.They are not one and the same thing.This season the club, we think, due to undisclosed fees, has commited to spend, not spent, about £2m and that's equivalent to the money that has been/will be received from Sky & The Prem League Handout.

Additional income was raised via 2,000 additional ST Holders raising the level to 9,600 and that has helped to fund our more than doubled wage bill as has the increased POD Prices.SL has stated that he wants the club to stand on it's own two feet.That's not to say he won't put his hand in his pocket if it's needed, but he shouldn't be confused with someone like Abramovich who will bankroll huge losses.

In terms of who we signed, GJ brought in the players he wanted and, of seven, two were strikers & two, wingers-Those areas were clearly the ones he wanted to strengthen and, having already bought two wingers/wide players towards the end of last season, he still felt he needed to strengthen those areas-I think that tells its own story as do the number of Betsy & Jevons threads on here.GJ's had numerous opportunities to select either player and hasn't.

I'm not sure what you mean here and you are clearly aware of something please clarify

What I meant is simply that.The early loan signings during GJ's reign were pretty much disastourous, however, if signing those players was part of a deep lying motivational plan to take the club forward, fantastic.

I sometimes find you a little bit difficult to read BB.So let me ask you.

Are you happy we were promoted?

In terms of having difficulty, never look for an ulterior motive or hidden meaning in what I write.I genuinely have no favourites and call it as I see it.If you're right, IMHO, I'll support you in what you say.If I think you're wrong an hour later then I'll tell you.When I rate players I rate them honestly and fairly based on that match, not the five before it.I also try to rate players based on what they are capable of.Lee Trundle is a vastly better footballer than Bas Savage however, season to date, I know who was more effective in a City shirt!

Mind you, that will continue to be the case if we lash the thing forward in the air and hit the channels early and what pleased me most about Sheff Utd was we almost eradicated those errors after the return of Noble.

Are you happy we were promoted

There is an enormous temptation to be sarcastic here, but I wont.Getting promoted after nine seasons of false hope made me ecstatic, not just happy.

Do you not like Gary Johnson/Are you happy with the manager.

Good question.I don't care who the manager is as long as the club's doing well.The same applies to The Chairman.I've stated that on many occassions and, after 42 years of supporting the club, man & boy, I've seen plenty come and go.My advice to any supporter is not to fall in love with them or hate them, just enjoy them while they're here and it's good, because when it gets truly bad, they'll be gone and you'll still be here.

I am currently more than happy with the manager and hope that our success under GJ continues.That doesn't mean I'll agree with everything he says or does.The same applies to The Chairman and our club gets more right than wrong.That doesn't mean that it's always right and the club needs to listen to all sections of it's fanbase, however different their views because, as we're told often enough, it's a business and business's need paying customers.Good ideas are not a monopoly of those in charge and differing opinion isn't negative, it's just different.

One things that this season has shown, IMHO, is that whilst success on the field is paramount, it needs to be supported by the same quality off the field and, in some key areas, that's lacking.I'm talking about deeds here, not personalities.

Are you happy with our cùrrent position?

Yes, delighted, but we can improve.

Do you believe we can challenge this season?

Yes, but we'll need good fortune with injuries, form & suspension-GJ gets his tactics right more than not, but he can't always effect those issues

Do you think you should spend more time with Mrs BB?

What and upset my girlfriends? I've got one in North Menard, actually.Even been there? The place I mean, not the woman?

[Bristol Boy]

Red - you have to remember that reviews and ratings are by their very defination, subjective. BB has simply given his opinion even though its dressed up as being definative. Like you I don't happen to agree with most of BB view on the ratings but thats what football is all about - opinions.

Quite correct in terms of subjectivity as are those in the newspapers etc-however, I'd be interested to know which match ratings you disagree with as these rating are basically a compilation.

Despite BB's abundance of postings he still finds time to go to almost all City's games both home and away and in that respect is beter qualified to comment than most who go regularly to AG with the occaisional away game thrown in - like me.

There is definetly a better opportunity to assess the players if one views games home & away and I think that formed the basis for the debate surrounding Elliott.I'll be interested to see if his away performance matches his home ones now that Noble's in the team.

[scumbag]

Red - you have to remember that reviews and ratings are by their very defination, subjective. BB has simply given his opinion even though its dressed up as being definative. Like you I don't happen to agree with most of BB view on the ratings but thats what football is all about - opinions.

Despite BB's abundance of postings he still finds time to go to almost all City's games both home and away and in that respect is beter qualified to comment than most who go regularly to AG with the occasional away game thrown in - like me.

totally agree with you and red, disagree with the most of his ratings, but in reality they are just one persons views and no matter how they are dressed up, he's just another fan, despite what some think as you say it's just his opinion.

I've also had the benefit of all but one game so far this season and I totally disagree with the ratings for Elliot and feel he has put in a fair few very good away performances but alas I don't make a big deal about it because it's just my view

[Bristol Boy]

totally agree with you and red, disagree with the most of his ratings, but in reality they are just one persons views and no matter how they are dressed up, he's just another fan, despite what some think as you say it's just his opinion.

I've also had the benefit of all but one game so far this season and I totally disagree with the ratings for Elliot and feel he has put in a fair few very good away performances but alas I don't make a big deal about it because it's just my view

Not that I mind, but apart from Elliott, which ratings do you disagree with and why?

[REDOXO]

Mr Johnson 's entries into the transfer market since taking over...mmm....Lets have a look see

Please anyone correct me if I'm wrong

Basso

Fontaine

McCallister

Elliott

Wilson

Byefield

McIndoe

Johnson

All in a first team that currently lies 4th in the Championwship....Trundle and Sproule have not hit top form yet, however Sproule showed some very decent signs agains Sheff Utd and Trundle came on and did well especially holding the ball-up in the same game....

If I were Mr Landsdowne I would not think twice about backing the judgement of a manager that Cleared out a dressing room full of losers, got us almost into the play offs that season....Won promotion the following season, despite having three first team players bangged up, bought in huge revenue through a thrilling cup run and has got the best out of platers such as Orr/Carey/Skuse and Murray (at the age of 34 more or less)...

Yep I expect Steve has sleepless nights over Gary Johnsons ability to manage a football team bring out the best in people and bring in new faces....

As I have said the post above was in reply to another post and was not in anyway criticising BB his posts his ratings etc....That probably came later as I am a little fed up of reading some criticisms (stated and Implied) of our players and officials (Although I'm not singling BB out here)...However I will post this with other replies in mind (and bearing in mind peoples right to opinions)

The point is the end result is what matters, individuals can be good bad or indifferent but if the end result is winning/ promotion/top four then how much does it matter if certain players do not live up to anybody's expectancy? If the team is getting results, and lets face it Gary Johnson does know that Lee Trundle is not quite doing it fully yet, then perhaps letting the coaching and management staff get on with it without supporters putting further doubt in a players mind is what we should do at least for a while.

I, a supporter of this club for 45 years have listened and read all sorts of crap particularly over the last 30 and to be perfectly honest I feel one of the biggest enemies to success here has been the attitude of supporters who criticise and single out individuals constantly thus making it a damn site more difficult to manage the players and the club

Football is a squad game (trite I know, but a fact)...If players are not performing as well as they might to bad, but does it need to be pointed out quite so often and does a player not performing to his ' price tag' mean the manager may not get future support of the chairman...Probably not...

Judgement of players is part an parcel of football but so is supporting a football team...Thus a little more support of a team doing well and its players who are not playing so well yet (especially as this manager in particular is very definate about his approach to motivation) may be a better way to push us further toward the promised land...