Lee Johnson & Red Card [merged]

[reddoc]

I haven't seen a replay. If I do and it looks different then maybe I'll think differently about it but frankly it was pretty clear.

I don't dispute that what Safri did was wrong and he deserved to go, I've said that all along.

There is no way on earth that what Safri did was enough to make LJ go down involuntarily. It was a choice he made and that was clear from the time it took him to make the decision. Spur of the moment, sure but still.

If it had been in the face I'd think the same. It takes quite a bit to knock someone on their ass and that was absolutely nowhere near it.

If LJ was wasting time he'd have stayed down, but instead he jumped back up as soon as the red card was out.

I'm not thinking the worst just for the hell of it and I've got no anti-LJ agenda at all (and frankly that argument is just a poor excuse), it was definitely cheating and I don't like that from a City player.

Actually there's two reasons to go down in these sort of circumstances when hit from behind. One admittedly is the power of the blow but the other is a self defence mechanism which is inbuilt and difficult to prevent. If you immediately turn to see who or what has struck you you run the risk of turning into the second strike. Therefore going to ground before assessing the risk makes perfect sense on a basic instinctive level.

The fact it came from behind makes a big difference when you claim play acting I'm afraid.

[Portishead Red]

If he hadn't of gone down would the referee/linesman have done anything about it? There's a difference between diving and exaggerating. Lee Johnson exaggerated by the sounds of things. To gain us an advantage, he didn't cheat, he just made sure that Safri got the deserved punishment.

Why are Safri's hands up there, what was he doing with them? LJ isn't the perpetrator in this matter. I'm sure GJ will take this up with LJ, and i'm sure the rest of the lads will take the mick in training. Punishment enough really.

Sounds like some of you want Lee Johnson to be banned to me. Not for the sanctity of the game but because it's LJ.

Disagree with you on this one RH.

He dived/simulated call it what you want......i certainly don't want to see that down at AG.

LJ you've let yourself down.

[reddog]

Disagree with you on this one RH.

He dived/simulated call it what you want......i certainly don't want to see that down at AG.

LJ you've let yourself down.

Don't very often agree with you Portishead Red, but I do on this occasion.

[maidenheadred]

it's cheating.

always wondered how fans of clubs like arsenal and chelsea said after a game when their players blatantly try and get a fellow pro booked or sent off.. and looking through the thread above can see now what probably happens.

some of us say its wrong - but others cant see past the red shirt doing the diving, and so make excuses. Same way a lot of us made excuses for our players getting sent to prison, with two of them being revealed as having previous (imagine what we'd havae said if they were gas)

A post above says its not cheating - it is cheating, and i don't want to see it here no matter how high in the league we go. If the reverse happened to one of our players, not ONE of you would argue in the Saint's player's favour... anyone going to tell me otherwise?

[Nibor]

Actually there's two reasons to go down in these sort of circumstances when hit from behind. One admittedly is the power of the blow but the other is a self defence mechanism which is inbuilt and difficult to prevent. If you immediately turn to see who or what has struck you you run the risk of turning into the second strike. Therefore going to ground before assessing the risk makes perfect sense on a basic instinctive level.

The fact it came from behind makes a big difference when you claim play acting I'm afraid.

I would have thought the natural reaction would be to duck, move away from the blow, and turn around.

But he did take a noticeable time to decide what he was doing IMO and I was left with the impression that it was completely voluntary.

[greenun]

This was my earlier reply in another thread:

I didn't see the incident first-hand, but after watching Sky Sports News' coverage on the large screen in the Supporters Club bar, one word came to mind: Dida. After the huge publicity surrounding the Rosseneri keeper's antics at Celtic recently, you'd have thought that any professional footballer would be wary of collapsing as though he'd been shot by a sniper, after what can only be described as a gentle tap on the head. Unfortunately, trial by television will always out.

[Guest east_dundry_red]

I agree totally. I also think though there is no need to try and get anouther player sent off.

I do! Any advantage is an advantage. I used to stamp on players toes when i played in goal. Used to stop them jumping for headers, a little stamp no one noticed and you'd get the ball. An advantage is an advantage what ever way you look at it.

Its the same in rugby, you do every little thing to get yourself ahead weather it be raking studs down the opposition players back or exagerating contact!

[Henry]

This was my earlier reply in another thread:

I didn't see the incident first-hand, but after watching Sky Sports News' coverage on the large screen in the Supporters Club bar, one word came to mind: Dida. After the huge publicity surrounding the Rosseneri keeper's antics at Celtic recently, you'd have thought that any professional footballer would be wary of collapsing as though he'd been shot by a sniper, after what can only be described as a gentle tap on the head. Unfortunately, trial by television will always out.

IMO both incidents are completly different.

Johnson never stayed down and needed to be carried off.

[Redhyde]

If Safri only got a yellow card and went on to score the equaliser I believe most of your views would be different.

There's a point where honesty is stupidity.

If it happened the other way around my view would be the same. I'd condemn our player completely for pure idiocy. Not the other guy for going down. I suspect we'd see more vitriol about foreigners in our game bordering on racism and barely a mention of our players stupidity.

LJ owes no allegiance to someone who's just pushed him in the head.

[reddoc]

I would have thought the natural reaction would be to duck, move away from the blow, and turn around.

But he did take a noticeable time to decide what he was doing IMO and I was left with the impression that it was completely voluntary.

Yep know what you mean but it's happened to me twice , both when torn a muscle in the back of my calf, common injury and most people describe it as thinking you've been shot or kicked. It's initially not that painful but you do tend to rather embarrassingly go to ground and then look round to see who did it. Different bit of anatomy but same principle .

[Nibor]

If Safri only got a yellow card and went on to score the equaliser I believe most of your views would be different.

There's a point where honesty is stupidity.

If it happened the other way around my view would be the same. I'd condemn our player completely for pure idiocy. Not the other guy for going down. I suspect we'd see more vitriol about foreigners in our game bordering on racism and barely a mention of our players stupidity.

LJ owes no allegiance to someone who's just pushed him in the head.

My view wouldn't be any different, Safri was getting sent off anyway and I suspect that if one of our players did what Safri did most people on here would be saying the guy made a meal of it but he shouldn't have been given the chance to.

It's got nothing to do with owing allegiance, it's got to do with integrity.

[maidenheadred]

If Safri only got a yellow card and went on to score the equaliser I believe most of your views would be different.

There's a point where honesty is stupidity.

If it happened the other way around my view would be the same. I'd condemn our player completely for pure idiocy. Not the other guy for going down. I suspect we'd see more vitriol about foreigners in our game bordering on racism and barely a mention of our players stupidity.

LJ owes no allegiance to someone who's just pushed him in the head.

he's pushed him in the head - may or may not be a yellow or red card - referee's decision.

LJ owes a fellow professional and probably 12,000 fans (figure the other 6,000 agree with what he did, if this thread is representative..) the right to watch a referee make that decision - not to exaggerate it with a disproportional reaction, and try and influence the ref.

[greenun]

If Safri only got a yellow card and went on to score the equaliser I believe most of your views would be different.

There's a point where honesty is stupidity.

If it happened the other way around my view would be the same. I'd condemn our player completely for pure idiocy. Not the other guy for going down. I suspect we'd see more vitriol about foreigners in our game bordering on racism and barely a mention of our players stupidity.

LJ owes no allegiance to someone who's just pushed him in the head.

That answer makes you an apologist for gamesmanship in my opinion.

[Frome Valley]

Bristol City in the past has had players such Gow. Our players should not behave like Lee Johnson did last night.Hopefully we will not see it again.

[redcityman]

It's another Gary Johnson "STAY DOWN" incident one suspects.

Whilst not condonning what LJ did, you're not exactly in a position to gloat considering lewis haldanes attempts this season to get into the british olympic diving team.

Infact you gasheads are renowned for cheating aint you esmond.

[Redhyde]

he's pushed him in the head - may or may not be a yellow or red card - referee's decision.

LJ owes a fellow professional and probably 12,000 fans (figure the other 6,000 agree with what he did, if this thread is representative..) the right to watch a referee make that decision - not to exaggerate it with a disproportional reaction, and try and influence the ref.

What does LJ do to affect his decision then. Are you saying that the referee wouldn't have sent him off unless LJ went down? Surely the ref would have come to the decision regardless of LJ's actions. If you think he wouldn't then you obviously have the same opinion of officials that i do. You need to influence them to get the right decisions.

And we know what Safri thinks of fellow professionals where he shoves them in the head. Why should LJ help this guy out when he's been disgracefully disrespectful?

That answer makes you an apologist for gamesmanship in my opinion.

I'm not apologising. No way in hell.

In any case in sport where a player or team bends the rules and gets away with it, i blame the officials for not spotting it or acting upon it not the players themselves. I've outlined why i think he was right to do it.

I'd be upset if one of our players was stupid enough to do what Safri did. If Safri doesn't do this horrible thing, there's no need for LJ to do anything about it.

[greenun]

I'm not apologising. No way in hell.

That's not what it means. As an apologist you are defending Johnson's actions and condoning his behaviour.

[georgie best]

no one would moan, if one of the fans favourites had done the same, the likes of carey, orr, basso or noble would of been praised, only because its the managers son that every one has a go. disgrace

[greenun]

no one would moan, if one of the fans favourites had done the same, the likes of carey, orr, basso or noble would of been praised, only because its the managers son that every one has a go. disgrace

That has got absolutely nothing to do with this debate and you're just trying to avoid the issue.

[cidercity1987]

I'm not too such what the fuss is about.

From watching World Johnson went over to Safri to say a few things, Safri started to put his arm around him, Johnson nudged into him so Safri cracked him on the head with his knuckles. How any of us can be sure how badly Johnson felt it is beyond me?

As from Burley's point of view, it certainly wasn't a consoling pat!

[BCFC Grim]

Safri hit him from behind, Johnson couldn't of know it was comming so must have come a bit of surprise. Thats may what caused him to go down. Say Johnson did go down easily, safri was hardly respectfull of Johnson, hitting him with his back turned. Safri would have been sent of the none the less, and if he managed to get off I'm sure some people would have moaned why didn't LJ go down.It was back to the wall stuff and it wasted a bit of time, and stopped saints momentum. Safri hardly showed LJ respect,so why should johnson show respect by not going down.

Safri was in the wrong, not Lee.

[Redhyde]

That's not what it means. As an apologist you are defending Johnson's actions and condoning his behaviour.

Yeah i know, just kidding with the apologising statement You kind of need to look at the definition though if you're going to use the term so it was more a look to see if you understood what accusation you were throwing even if you're wrong with it.

I have a view on the subject so by the technical definition of course I'm an apologist. But then equally you are for having the opposite view.

What makes it a pretty poor usage of the word is that i don't conform to the apologist stereotypes and rhetoric usages. I'm not denying anything, i'm not omitting facts or exaggerating other ones. There isn't an agenda and i don't seek a change.

Your attempt to weaken my view by bounding around pejorative terms is ill becoming of you.

[bartolona]

I'm not too such what the fuss is about.

From watching World Johnson went over to Safri to say a few things, Safri started to put his arm around him, Johnson nudged into him so Safri cracked him on the head with his knuckles. How any of us can be sure how badly Johnson felt it is beyond me?

As from Burley's point of view, it certainly wasn't a consoling pat!

Totally agree, watching it back a lot of people on here have gone way over the top on their slating of LJ.

[rossjonesuk]

He tapped him. Johnson was an idiot for going down the way he did.

Bit of 'sportsmanship' - the guy had to go anyway cos, however lightly he did it, he raised his hands in an aggressive way and that is a straight red. Admittedly LJ made a meal of it, but as said - sportsmanship. At this level you gotta have some just to be on a level playing field with what other teams would do.

[Seend Red]

Bit of 'sportsmanship' - the guy had to go anyway cos, however lightly he did it, he raised his hands in an aggressive way and that is a straight red. Admittedly LJ made a meal of it, but as said - sportsmanship. At this level you gotta have some just to be on a level playing field with what other teams would do.

Sportsmanship=Cheating.

[Alex_BCFC]

Bit of 'sportsmanship' - the guy had to go anyway cos, however lightly he did it, he raised his hands in an aggressive way and that is a straight red. Admittedly LJ made a meal of it, but as said - sportsmanship. At this level you gotta have some just to be on a level playing field with what other teams would do.

No you don't. We were doing fine at 2-0 with no gamesmanship.

I've seen it again now and I don't like to see it. The guy would have gone regardless as the ref saw it.

[maidenheadred]

What does LJ do to affect his decision then. Are you saying that the referee wouldn't have sent him off unless LJ went down? Surely the ref would have come to the decision regardless of LJ's actions. If you think he wouldn't then you obviously have the same opinion of officials that i do. You need to influence them to get the right decisions.

And we know what Safri thinks of fellow professionals where he shoves them in the head. Why should LJ help this guy out when he's been disgracefully disrespectful?

am not saying the referee wouldnt have sent him off unless LJ went down at all. Just saying that its up to the referee to make up his mind based on the facts as he sees them (without an action replay), and that exaggerating what was just a tap risks distorting the facts as the ref sees them, and risks the referee making the wrong decision.

from seeing it live (and not yet seeing a replay) i'd call it a yellow card offence - but would rather the ref judged it for what it was, rather than see a Lee crumple on the ground and have that influence that decision to be a red.

If it was a red regardless - then fine, but let ref make that decision lee, and don't have several thousands people thinking less of you the day after!

[rossjonesuk]

Sportsmanship=Cheating.

I don't disagree, but unfortunately -as I said - there needs to be an element of it these days just to be on a level playing field with the other teams.

[Drew Peacock]

No you don't. We were doing fine at 2-0 with no gamesmanship.

I've seen it again now and I don't like to see it. The guy would have gone regardless as the ref saw it.

I thought it was 2-1 and we were under the cosh?

[Alex_BCFC]

I thought it was 2-1 and we were under the cosh?

The point was that we don't need gamesmanship to win.

Even at the time of 2-1 and being under the cosh, it wasn't required. In fact that kind of behaviour for my team is never acceptable for me but as this thread shows it varies from person to person.