Eastend Today

[Barrs Court Red]

One quick question. Cant the club eject you from the ground for refusing to sit down?

Yes! And have done many times in the past, so ignore the above advise!

End of the day if someone in front is stod up then it's more than reasonable to say no, but if not then it's dogy ground.

[bringbacktherobin]

But moomin if everyone sits down then there will never be a change in the ruling, standing in the east end this season has proved its safe to stand.

[Frome Valley]

There is now LAW about standing at football its only regulations so the copper shouldnt be telling people to sit down it isnt his job.

Just refuse RIAZ, there isnt a law about standing so your not going to get arrested for it.

Obviously standing is not against the law but it is against ground regulations.

The grey area would be an individual being singled out for persistent standing and civil proceedings not criminal being used against them and here you do not have to commit an offence to banned.

Better advice would be to stand during moments of excitement and sit when told till the next exciting moment of a game. Nobody has been able to define what moments of excitement are.

The regulations are a nonsense particularly in stands with shallow gradients for seating.

[Riaz]

But moomin if everyone sits down then there will never be a change in the ruling, standing in the east end this season has proved its safe to stand.

Your missing the point.

Fair play to all the fans who stand. But you run the risk of being removed from the ground. And i don't wanna miss the game!

[Barrs Court Red]

But moomin if everyone sits down then there will never be a change in the ruling, standing in the east end this season has proved its safe to stand.

It's subjective. I stand when I can, and have no problem with doing so, be it in the East End or the Williams. However it cant be said that standing in seated areas is safe, I've seen some nasty incidents when people have gone arse over tit, but lets be honest, what ever you do there's always a "risk", you can just as easily trip on a dodgy paving while walking to the game.

I have my doubts to safe standing being viable as something likely to take off. To me the big indicator is that the new Liverpool ground wont include it and that seeing as football clubs are struggling to sell out as it is, it's hard to see them bringing in areas where cheaper tickets would be expected, losing them more money.

[tompo]

There is now LAW about standing at football its only regulations so the copper shouldnt be telling people to sit down it isnt his job.

Just refuse RIAZ, there isnt a law about standing so your not going to get arrested for it.

One of the punitive measures applied to clubs whose fans persistently stand at home games is to reduce their ticket allocations for away games.

Something to think about and particularly topical as it appears that more City fans want to go to Wolves than can get tickets.

Your frustration is understandable. However, mounting a campaign of defiance is not the way to bring about change.

[bringbacktherobin]

But if clubs made areas where it was safe to stand there wouldnt be any need to change things around.

The east end was built as a terrace and will always be a terrace, just because you shove seats into a stand it doesnt mean its unsafe to stand anymore.

Any club cant throw out large numbers of fans, if everyone refuses to sit there is little they can do. Yes they can throw a few out but there is another 250ish people that they will have to throw out aswell.

Tompo, if they do reduce away tickets due to standing they usally leave the last two seats on every row free. The thinking behind this is because they know people are going to stand and don't wish people spilling over into the stairways etc. Do you beleive that this is why wolves havent given us more tickets? Most clubs come and say so when using this tactic in order to scare people into sitting down.

[EASTEND WURZEL]

It's subjective. I stand when I can, and have no problem with doing so, be it in the East End or the Williams. However it cant be said that standing in seated areas is safe, I've seen some nasty incidents when people have gone arse over tit, but lets be honest, what ever you do there's always a "risk", you can just as easily trip on a dodgy paving while walking to the game.

I have my doubts to safe standing being viable as something likely to take off. To me the big indicator is that the new Liverpool ground wont include it and that seeing as football clubs are struggling to sell out as it is, it's hard to see them bringing in areas where cheaper tickets would be expected, losing them more money.

it works in germany dortmund have the highest have.attendance in europe at over 77000 , and signal park has a capacity of over 80000 , this includes safe standing for 25000! behind the goal. some of their safe standing ticket prices are as little as 6 euros.

[Frome Valley]

It's subjective. I stand when I can, and have no problem with doing so, be it in the East End or the Williams. However it cant be said that standing in seated areas is safe, I've seen some nasty incidents when people have gone arse over tit, but lets be honest, what ever you do there's always a "risk", you can just as easily trip on a dodgy paving while walking to the game.

I have my doubts to safe standing being viable as something likely to take off. To me the big indicator is that the new Liverpool ground wont include it and that seeing as football clubs are struggling to sell out as it is, it's hard to see them bringing in areas where cheaper tickets would be expected, losing them more money.

When the FLA were challenged to back up accusations that standing was unsafe by the football supporters federation with statistics they could not as this is not born out by Germany for example. The FLA argument now is fans are more easily to control. The risk depends on design and management.

Safe standing is going to happen in this country but will probably arise from the lower leagues first and the FA's ruling on seating will be challenged as there is no longer a plausible argument to back it up.

As for Liverpool all you need is a club giving an architect the right remit and dual use when needed is possible in stadium design.

[Barrs Court Red]

it works in germany dortmund have the highest have.attendance in europe at over 77000 , and signal park has a capacity of over 80000 , this includes safe standing for 25000! behind the goal. some of their safe standing ticket prices are as little as 6 euros.

Lets be fair though, the finances of the German game are far different to ours, as you've said yourself in the past, in terms of how the match day is. It sounds like a utopia compared to here in some respects.

[bringbacktherobin]

If we made it £6 a adult we would get 35,000 i think

[Barrs Court Red]

If we wen't £6 the club would suffer massive losses! Unfortuantly.

The German model is brilliant, yet incompatible with British football

[EASTEND WURZEL]

If we wen't £6 the club would suffer massive losses! Unfortuantly.

The German model is brilliant, yet incompatible with British football

sadly you are right!

[tompo]

[bringbacktherobin]

Results of your actions?

I don't think I'm the only one that wishes to stand and does stand in the east end.

If everyone in the east end sat down the whole game, the songs and atmosphere in there would plummet straight away.

Stewards and officals at ashton gate never do anything about away fans standing, it cant be one rule of them and another for us.

[Barrs Court Red]

Results of your actions?

I don't think I'm the only one that wishes to stand and does stand in the east end.

I think Tompo means your "i wont sit down even if they tell me" mindset.

I suspect the fact that the East End is going to be knocked down reflects in the relaxed approach taken toward standing.

[bringbacktherobin]

Well if its about my mindset then thats fair enough, i still don't think the stand will be knocked down at the end of the season.

[Flaxbourton Red]

If we wen't £6 the club would suffer massive losses! Unfortuantly.

The German model is brilliant, yet incompatible with British football

the current english model is incompatible with British football

[Frome Valley]

The East End may be a terrace with seats bolted on to it but that does not mean that it is safe to stand. If anything it is even more of a safety risk. There are a number of hazards not just for you but the people around you, for example:

Fans are not protected by crush barriers. They have a seat in front of their legs. In the event of an incident, there would be nothing to prevent them from falling forwards onto the heads and upper bodies of the spectators in front. The falling spectators could themselves get injuries from the seats. The risk is increased if fans stand on the seats themselves.

The effect you are referring to is known as cascading. Stating the risk is increased would not be true in the East End as the gradient of the stand is not steep enough for this effect to take place. In the Dolman it could be a reality. If anything you have highlighted the main drawback in seating which is that no stand is safe unless blocks are vacated in order row by row in a orderly fashion, that seats are hazards themselves in "some" stands and control measures would be to take them out and put in standing areas with barriers or have empty stands.

[Frome Valley]

the current english model is incompatible with British football

Its incompatible with rational thought.

[bartolona]

Stewards and officals at ashton gate never do anything about away fans standing, it cant be one rule of them and another for us.

See where your coming from with this one. Wasn't it something to do with it being harder to make away fans sit because they only attend AG once a season? But so far this season ive seen off the top of my head Coventry,Preston Norwich fans standing throughout the game while City fans in the away end being told to sit. Maybe it's just AG where they target home fans and not away.

[bringbacktherobin]

I think its due to it being natural to stand in the east end because that is what the stand was designed for, for people to stand not to sit.

So when away fans come most stand up (unless their yeovil fans) due to this fact, but at grouns like norwich/coventry the stands were built to sit down in not stand up in

[Riaz]

I think its due to it being natural to stand in the east end because that is what the stand was designed for, for people to stand not to sit.

So when away fans come most stand up (unless their yeovil fans) due to this fact, but at grouns like norwich/coventry the stands were built to sit down in not stand up in

I doubt people really even think about what the stand was built for, I think they just want to stand!

[bringbacktherobin]

No, they probably don't think about it, but the gradient of the stand isnt steep enough to think about sitting down.

[WTFiGO!?!]

The East End may be a terrace with seats bolted on to it but that does not mean that it is safe to stand. If anything it is even more of a safety risk. There are a number of hazards not just for you but the people around you, for example:

Fans are not protected by crush barriers. They have a seat in front of their legs. In the event of an incident, there would be nothing to prevent them from falling forwards onto the heads and upper bodies of the spectators in front. The falling spectators could themselves get injuries from the seats. The risk is increased if fans stand on the seats themselves.

Did you see the report the other day about risk aversion/moddycoddling being bad for children in the long term as they do not develop survival skills?

For all the text book cascading theory tompo how many injury's have occured in the East End this season or in deed throughout the Country due to it?

You know it really, I know it, only fuddy duddy, pedantic, Yes Men bother defending it.....

We're living under a facest regime.

[Blagdon red]

It's subjective. I stand when I can, and have no problem with doing so, be it in the East End or the Williams. However it cant be said that standing in seated areas is safe, I've seen some nasty incidents when people have gone arse over tit, but lets be honest, what ever you do there's always a "risk", you can just as easily trip on a dodgy paving while walking to the game.

I have my doubts to safe standing being viable as something likely to take off. To me the big indicator is that the new Liverpool ground wont include it and that seeing as football clubs are struggling to sell out as it is, it's hard to see them bringing in areas where cheaper tickets would be expected, losing them more money.

It can be done in a way that provides lower cost of admission AND increased gate revenue.

In some German stadia this is achieved by having two steps per row of fold-back seating, i.e. one step that runs underneath the seats when they are down, and one that your feet rest on when sitting. A safety barrier is incorporated into every seat-back. They then sell tickets at the rate of 1.5 per seat area, i.e. for every two people of the front of the two steps there is a third on the rear step looking over their shoulders (and still a full-length safety barrier every 2 steps).

In this way, admission costs could be cut for such areas by anything up to 33% while still generating more total revenue when sold out, e.g. 2,000 seated at £20 = £40,000 or 3,000 standing at £14 (30% cheaper) = £42,000.

[Flaxbourton Red]

i wouldn't confuse opening the east end with safe standing,

they are two separate; but equally important issues

the club can open the east end to city fans anytime it wants to

safe standing has to be agreed by the FA, government, football licensing authority, the women in the ticket office, sooty and sweep

[eastend07/08]

The seats in the Eastend are too dangerous to sit on anyway, as they have no backs, you can be flipped backwards if your not careful. The only way to sit on them is by perching on the edge. Not very comfy. Seating is the reason why atmosphere is poor. You can't sing loud sat down.

I do feel for that old Jock steward though, he'll nae get us all tay sit doon!