What Happened To The 'carey Might Not Be Playing' Thread?

[aa_bcfc]

Anyone know what happened to the thread?

Anyone got any news or was it BS

[MarcusX]

Probably a load of b***ocks as nothing official has been said on the site

[woodshap]

I'd prefer not to debate it as it is GJ's wish to keep things under wraps, I mean no official news at all at the moment. Never know who might be reading the forums!

[RedM]

It was removed, not sure who by but that doesn't matter.

Anyway it looks like the info was sadly right as they have just said on the radio that Carey is out for today.

[Gaffer]

Hi everyone, poor day for us today even though we were really in it for an hour. Think new full backs are required if we want to stay at the top of this division.

Anyway, it was my thread that has mysteriously been deleted. As you know now, Carey missed the game with an achilles complaint and is doubtful for the Burnley trip. The thread also stated that i thought we'd really struggle against the movement of the West Brom forwards without him, which was definitely in evidence this afternoon.

Of course, i don't do 'BS' as one poster so kindly put it, so perhaps one of the mods would like to explain why my thread was deleted?? Perhaps, now that it was proven to be true, reinstate it so that the debate about the centre halves could be reignited? I wont hold my breath though....

[WesM]

Hi everyone, poor day for us today even though we were really in it for an hour. Think new full backs are required if we want to stay at the top of this division.

Anyway, it was my thread that has mysteriously been deleted. As you know now, Carey missed the game with an achilles complaint and is doubtful for the Burnley trip. The thread also stated that i thought we'd really struggle against the movement of the West Brom forwards without him, which was definitely in evidence this afternoon.

Of course, i don't do 'BS' as one poster so kindly put it, so perhaps one of the mods would like to explain why my thread was deleted?? Perhaps, now that it was proven to be true, reinstate it so that the debate about the centre halves could be reignited? I wont hold my breath though....

Gaffer,

Your thread may of been deleted for the following reason:

If the club wanted the news of our captain and best defender Louis Carey's injury broadcast into the public domain 48 hours before a game, they would have made some sort of announcement to that that effect through the official site. The fact that they didn't make such a statement suggests that for whatever reason, the club did not want that news to be made public.

[Gaffer]

Gaffer,

Your thread may of been deleted for the following reason:

If the club wanted the news of our captain and best defender Louis Carey's injury broadcast into the public domain 48 hours before a game, they would have made some sort of announcement to that that effect through the official site. The fact that they didn't make such a statement suggests that for whatever reason, the club did not want that news to be made public.

Fatman,

Thanks for taking the time to respond.

Please correct me if i'm wrong, as i don't know too much about the logistics of this forum, but isn't otib an independent fans forum? Isn't this the place to read and discuss rumours and players for forthcoming matches? Do the club hold any powers for what can or cant be written here?

I have read an awful lot of nonsence on here, does any of that get deleted?? :noexpression:

[WesM]

Fatman,

Thanks for taking the time to respond.

Please correct me if i'm wrong, as i don't know too much about the logistics of this forum, but isn't otib an independent fans forum? Isn't this the place to read and discuss rumours and players for forthcoming matches? Do the club hold any powers for what can or cant be written here?

I have read an awful lot of nonsence on here, does any of that get deleted?? :noexpression:

Gaff, I see what you are saying and I take your point, yes the forum is independent of the club and the club cannot dictate how the forum is managed. However a lot of the nonsense that gets discussed on here does not give our opponents the potential to find out information regarding our team selection, before official announcements are made regarding a players fitness. As you explained in your original post, your comments were fact (which were proved correct this afternoon) and a little more than speculation. kudos for the knowledge!

In this case, anybody reading that thread from WBA could have gained an advantage from knowing that Carey wasn't going to make it. However unlikely this scenario seems, it would be naive to think it could not happen.

You're saying that the club pulled the strings of the forum ?

Because someone speculated on the fitness of a player ?

Cynic, I'm not saying that at all. Whilst the admins of this board co-operate with the club if they feel it's appropriate or warrented, the club have no say on how this board runs. The fact of the matter is, the deletion of the thread came about as a result of the report button. Somebody else obviously thought that stating carey's injury status before the club did was unwise and which ever Mod/Admin deleted it obviously agreed.

I'm sorry if people perceive this as censorship or being a tool of the club, but we are just a group of people, doing what we think is right at the time.

cheers and merry christmas.

[Rednready]

BCFC got rid of OTIB, and my understanding is that the Supporters Trust pay the cost.

IMO, no different to the freedom of the press. If somebody wants to print a story, then unless its breaking a legal statute, thats the way it is. In any event, plenty of speculation on the forum is not taken seriously.

Anyone who seriously believes that the WBA management were glued to OTIB ready to change tactics at a moments notice......big chuckles !

[Gaffer]

Gaff, I see what you are saying and I take your point, yes the forum is independent of the club and the club cannot dictate how the forum is managed. However a lot of the nonsense that gets discussed on here does not give our opponents the potential to find out information regarding our team selection, before official announcements are made regarding a players fitness.

In this case, anybody reading that thread from WBA could have gained an advantage from knowing that Carey wasn't going to make it. However unlikely this scenario seems, it would be naive to think it could not happen.

Cynic, I'm not saying that at all. Whilst the admins of this board co-operate with the club if they feel it's appropriate or warrented, the club have no say on how this board runs. The fact of the matter is, the deletion of the thread came about as a result of the report button. Somebody else obviously thought that stating carey's injury status before the club did was unwise and which ever Mod/Admin deleted it obviously agreed.

cheers.x

Thanks for the feedback. I feel like the naughty school kid, back on report! Perhaps i should have worded the initial topic better, perhaps had it sound more opinion rather than fact? Still, i don't think a football forum would be taken seriously by any professional club.

[reddoc]

This sort of action more or less renders this forum pointless. Presumably this means that any truely interesting information , transfer speculation etc will be similarly subject to removal if considered not in the best interests of the club? Bit of a sad day for otib and poorly handled by the increasingly powerful mods I feel..

[WesM]

Thanks for the feedback. I feel like the naughty school kid, back on report! Perhaps i should have worded the initial topic better, perhaps had it sound more opinion rather than fact? Still, i don't think a football forum would be taken seriously by any professional club.

For the record bud, nor do I. But in an age where info is so easily exchanged and readily accessible, you have to agree that it's not beyond the realms of possibility?

All this WBA nonsense aside, my point is this:

If the club wanted the general public to know carey was injured, they would have announced it through the normal channels.

take care.

[Super Bob]

IMVHO, The Possibilty that the management of WBA would gain an advantage or pick a different team or tactics because 1, or any number, of our players were or were not playing is slim to say the least.

[Red Head]

All this WBA nonsense aside, my point is this:

If the club wanted the general public to know carey was injured, they would have announced it through the normal channels.

take care.

.....and therefore got the thread taken off. The way WBA played didn't matter much anyhow. Big Brother is watching!

[WesM]

.....and therefore got the thread taken off. The way WBA played didn't matter much anyhow. Big Brother is watching!

I refer my honourable friend to the response I gave some moments ago.

[Red Head]

I refer my honourable friend to the response I gave some moments ago.

..You would do well in the house of commons at Question time, here here!

[RedTop]

For the record bud, nor do I. But in an age where info is so easily exchanged and readily accessible, you have to agree that it's not beyond the realms of possibility?

All this WBA nonsense aside, my point is this:

If the club wanted the general public to know carey was injured, they would have announced it through the normal channels.

take care.

Fatman, I am stunned by this reply and think it absolutely stinks.

This is supposed to be an independent forum. It is governed by rules which are stated on the forum, NOT by what the club would or would not like to see on it. Please explain to me which of these explicitly-stated forum rules was broken by a well-informed post suggesting that Louis Carey might not be fit for the West Brom game, because for love nor money I cannot see one.

If the club wanted the general public to know Carey was injured, they may well have announced it. The fact they did NOT does not mean a poster on here should be censored for doing so on an INDEPENDENT forum. Not least because what happens on this site has nothing to do with the club. You are surely NOT a moderator to check whether the content of this board is what suits the club.

If you tell me that accurate posts on here which do not contravene the rules will be deleted if you don't like the content, then I'm off. It is censorship and, I repeat, it stinks. I will give it a week to see whether an administrator can explain these actions satisfactorily, or whether an apology - or at the very least an acknowledgement that it was a regretable mistake that the thread was deleted - is forthcoming. If neither of these things happen, then I'll cancel my username and leave. I will be sorry to do so after the best part of ten years contributing to this forum in what I would like to think is a constructive way, but that is how strongly I feel about it. I am appalled.

[bh_red]

Fatman, I am stunned by this reply and think it absolutely stinks.

This is supposed to be an independent forum. It is governed by rules which are stated on the forum, NOT by what the club would or would not like to see on it. Please explain to me which of these explicitly-stated forum rules was broken by a well-informed post suggesting that Louis Carey might not be fit for the West Brom game, because for love nor money I cannot see one.

If the club wanted the general public to know Carey was injured, they may well have announced it. The fact they did NOT does not mean a poster on here should be censored for doing so on an INDEPENDENT forum. Not least because what happens on this site has nothing to do with the club. You are surely NOT a moderator to check whether the content of this board is what suits the club.

If you tell me that accurate posts on here which do not contravene the rules will be deleted if you don't like the content, then I'm off. It is censorship and, I repeat, it stinks. I will give it a week to see whether an administrator can explain these actions satisfactorily, or whether an apology is forthcoming. If neither of these things happen, then I'll cancel my username and leave. I will be sorry to do so after the best part of ten years contributing to this forum in what I would like to think is a constructive way, but that is how strongly I feel about it. I am appalled.

totally agree........why the thread was deleted god only knows and hasn't been explained? just because it isn't on the "offical site" doesn't mean it shouldn't be on here?

when it was said prior to Cotterill being sold last august, it was mentioned on here was it removed he was going for to Wigan by someone when everyone else was saying Norwich - was it deleted no?

when Trundle was signing nothing was offically on the website depsite bids going back and forth - was that removed? No

when certain members of the forum and ST where talking about the "new ground" prior to the AGM and totally undermined the suprise annocement, was it removed? No

the endless talking and comments about "racism" at the cardiff game, despite the whole thing in the end being totally non-football related and basically accusations against some of being Bigots - was that removed? NO

SO WHY WAS THIS REMOVE?

perhaps the ST/MODS should stick a posting at the top, stating that you can only post what we want you too?

[Ian M]

Fatman, I am stunned by this reply and think it absolutely stinks.

This is supposed to be an independent forum. It is governed by rules which are stated on the forum, NOT by what the club would or would not like to see on it. Please explain to me which of these explicitly-stated forum rules was broken by a well-informed post suggesting that Louis Carey might not be fit for the West Brom game, because for love nor money I cannot see one.

If the club wanted the general public to know Carey was injured, they may well have announced it. The fact they did NOT does not mean a poster on here should be censored for doing so on an INDEPENDENT forum. Not least because what happens on this site has nothing to do with the club. You are surely NOT a moderator to check whether the content of this board is what suits the club.

If you tell me that accurate posts on here which do not contravene the rules will be deleted if you don't like the content, then I'm off. It is censorship and, I repeat, it stinks. I will give it a week to see whether an administrator can explain these actions satisfactorily, or whether an apology is forthcoming. If neither of these things happen, then I'll cancel my username and leave. I will be sorry to do so after the best part of ten years contributing to this forum in what I would like to think is a constructive way, but that is how strongly I feel about it. I am appalled.

When Fatman said "the club" he did of course mean "Gary Johnson". Gary Johnson believes that fans forums are read in advance of matches by opposition managers/coaching staff (presumably because he does the same) and by publishing unconfirmed but accuarate team news on this forum we would be putting Bristol City at a disadvantage.

You may believe that censorship like that stinks but I think any action by a City fan that compromises City's chances of success stinks.

[Ian M]

totally agree........why the thread was deleted god only knows and hasn't been explained? just because it isn't on the "offical site" doesn't mean it shouldn't be on here?

when it was said prior to Cotterill being sold last august, it was mentioned on here was it removed he was going for to Wigan by someone when everyone else was saying Norwich - was it deleted no?

when Trundle was signing nothing was offically on the website depsite bids going back and forth - was that removed? No

when certain members of the forum and ST where talking about the "new ground" prior to the AGM and totally undermined the suprise annocement, was it removed? No

the endless talking and comments about "racism" at the cardiff game, despite the whole thing in the end being totally non-football related and basically accusations against some of being Bigots - was that removed? NO

SO WHY WAS THIS REMOVE?

perhaps the ST/MODS should stick a posting at the top, stating that you can only post what we want you too?

Look at what GJ has achieved since coming here. If he would prefer us not to exclusively reveal important team news before games then shouldn't we honour that?

[tinman-is-god]

Good post RedTop, the mods have some explaining to do. Saying it is 'not in the best interests of the club' etc makes it sound like unless posts/topics are to the benefit of BCFC then they are not to be written, which is absurd.

Also, if the club wanted it released they would have realeased it blah blah blah- get a grip, about 99% of the posts on otib are founded/based in rumour/i heard my mate down the pub who knows brian wilsons sisters boyfriends cat etc and things ALWAYS get discussed which are not on the official site, such as transfer speculation.

I trust you will remove all transfer speculation unless the club confirms they are interested in a player then? Unless you can answer yes to that question, you were wrong in your reasoning and should apologise and accept that it shouldn't have been removed. If not, then OTIB is a waste of time. Whats it to be Mods?

[reddoc]

When Fatman said "the club" he did of course mean "Gary Johnson". Gary Johnson believes that fans forums are read in advance of matches by opposition managers/coaching staff (presumably because he does the same) and by publishing unconfirmed but accuarate team news on this forum we would be putting Bristol City at a disadvantage.

You may believe that censorship like that stinks but I think any action by a City fan that compromises City's chances of success stinks.

So to clarify, you're essentially saying that any rules this forum has asked it's members to adhere to count for nothing if the mods and Gary Johnson decide the topic puts Bristol City at a disadvantage? Wow this is great. You really ought to go away and think very hard before any of you post any more flippant of the cuff remarks.

This is a big hole you're digging right now.

[bh_red]

Look at what GJ has achieved since coming here. If he would prefer us not to exclusively reveal important team news before games then shouldn't we honour that?

Well Gary Johnson has said that he won't discuss transfer until they are complete,

So surely we can cross that off the list of subjects that can be discussed as well?

[Gaffer]

When Fatman said "the club" he did of course mean "Gary Johnson". Gary Johnson believes that fans forums are read in advance of matches by opposition managers/coaching staff (presumably because he does the same) and by publishing unconfirmed but accuarate team news on this forum we would be putting Bristol City at a disadvantage.

You may believe that censorship like that stinks but I think any action by a City fan that compromises City's chances of success stinks.

Steady on. I think it is ludicrous that people think that opposition teams look on a fans forum to find out inside knowledge, a bit of self appreciation too. We aint that important guys!

If i wanna share some info with fellow City fans, why can't we do it? There is so so much rubbish on here, that if you listened to everything, then Wanchope and Malcolm Christie would have 30 goals each this season already!!

[Antman]

When Fatman said "the club" he did of course mean "Gary Johnson". Gary Johnson believes that fans forums are read in advance of matches by opposition managers/coaching staff (presumably because he does the same) and by publishing unconfirmed but accuarate team news on this forum we would be putting Bristol City at a disadvantage.

You may believe that censorship like that stinks but I think any action by a City fan that compromises City's chances of success stinks.

If it's the policy of this forum to delete posts because they are deemed to 'compromise' city in some way as decided on an arbitary basis by OTIB staff then it needs to be made utterly explicit.

Someone who has Moderator/admin authority has clearly removed this post and should own up to it and explain. (the fairies didn't do it!)

Personally I cannot see it making a blind jot of difference. If managers actually act on information gleaned from sites like this they need to be seriously questioned! How can any person take a posting on here with 100% authority - really!

If this forum has editorially become the personal plaything of a few individuals, then I'm off.

OTIB, whats it to be?

[reddogkev]

I have got to speak in favour of the mods - this is common sense, not underhanded censorship.

If you know the gaffer's posts, you will know that he does socialise with City players, i.e he has mentioned speaking with Ivan Sproule on many occasions, and he has also come up with some other little nuggets of info.

So, it is plausible to believe his posts are more then just the general speculation of the unknowing masses, and infact, a representation of true knowledge - which could aid a rival club, if the content was read.

I don't feel there is anything wrong with removing a thread that could give away team information, as this forum is hardly hidden from rival clubs is it?

[Ian M]

As BH Red's reply shows we clearly don't delete everything that is "inconvenient" to the club, in fact it was just this time sensitive post but that isn't stopping many posters jumping on the anti-moderator bandwagon, for a change.

The post was actually reported to us by a couple of regular users and was deleted. I didn't delete the thread myself but had I been around I would have more-than-likely taken exactly the same action and as such I'm much like Tom in that they don't pay me enough to deal with the shit we get on this forum, in fact unlike Tom they don't pay me at all!

Maybe he's right and he should pull the plug on the whole thing, that'd solve both issues.

[reddoc]

As BH Red's reply shows we clearly don't delete everything that is "inconvenient" to the club, in fact it was just this time sensitive post but that isn't stopping many posters jumping on the anti-moderator bandwagon, for a change.

The post was actually reported to us by a couple of regular users and was deleted. I didn't delete the thread myself but had I been around I would have more-than-likely taken exactly the same action and as such I'm much like Tom in that they don't pay me enough to deal with the shit we get on this forum, in fact unlike Tom they don't pay me at all!

Maybe he's right and he should pull the plug on the whole thing, that'd solve both issues.

This appears to be applying the 'my ball' approach to the argument. Try harder.

[RED4LIFE]

TO THE MODS- This isnt aimed as a pop at you personally, so please don't take it as such. I assure you, I am very appreciative of the time and effort you put in to keep this place running smoothly. I for one, wouldnt want that job of having to be 'on' 24 hours a day, reading all the crap posted here. I doff my cap to you all.

BUT- This decision to delete a thread that has been proven true is absolutely wrong in terms of freedom of speech. I can totally understand your reasons for doing so. You didnt want the opponents to gain an advantage, thats a noble ideology. The thing is, removing the right to post your thoughts about this club is a very dangerous step. especially one that isnt abusive and has proved to be right. The Mod concerned has decided that the (possible) advantage to an opponent is more important than one of the most important values of the free world? Get real please!! You ask any person that fought in WWII, whats more important. Communism ran on a similar vein, and that went really well too, didnt it?

The forum users that have and do adhere to the rules of this forum should be appalled by this, as we are now being told that although this is an independent forum, funded by the fans through contributions to the ST, we will be moderated by the best interests of the club. Surely this cant be right?

I don't normally post about the forum in general, because as I said earlier, I really do admire the work put in by the Mods/Admin to keep this place running. Its a tough, thankless task I wouldnt/couldnt do myself. but this is an unacceptable position to take, and if this continues, I will, like Redtop, remove my user status to this forum.

:disapointed2se:

[RedTop]

As BH Red's reply shows we clearly don't delete everything that is "inconvenient" to the club, in fact it was just this time sensitive post but that isn't stopping many posters jumping on the anti-moderator bandwagon, for a change.

The post was actually reported to us by a couple of regular users and was deleted. I didn't delete the thread myself but had I been around I would have more-than-likely taken exactly the same action and as such I'm much like Tom in that they don't pay me enough to deal with the shit we get on this forum, in fact unlike Tom they don't pay me at all!

Maybe he's right and he should pull the plug on the whole thing, that'd solve both issues.

As you know, Madger, I am not someone who jumps on any passing bandwagon attacking mods. Nevertheless, however grateful we may be for the time that you and they give, that does not mean their actions should be above scrutiny and, if necessary, condemnation, especially when a fundamental principle at the very core of what this forum is about is at stake.

So let me get this clear: Despite nothing in the forum rules stating this to be the case, moderators on this independent forum now take it upon themselves to decide what is and is not in the club's interests - or what Gary Johnson would or would not like to see on here - and then censor or otherwise as they deem appropriate, according to what they think the club would want? That is what has happened here.

Which brings up a number of different problems. For starters, if the moderator concerned was aware that the post regarding Louis Carey was sensitive then that must mean he was aware it was accurate, as opposed to all the other posts on here about player injuries, transfers etc which are not. So how did he know? Was it more widely known that Carey was unlikely to be fit (in which case, there's even less reason to delete it), did someone at the club tell him and ask him to remove it (in which case he is bowing to pressure from the club and we can forget about any pretence that it is independent) or did he check with the club to see whether it was accurate? I would really like to know the answer to that.

Frankly, as stated elsewhere, if anyone on here seriously thinks that opposing teams are going to somehow pick their team or tactics based on whether a poster on here suggests one of the players may or may not be fit, then they are deluding themselves. If it were on an official website, then that's different. But this is an independent forum for fans, and they should be allowed to discuss what they want - not just what moderators want - provided it does not break the rules.

The fact remains that a poster has had a post deleted which did not break any of the forum rules, simply because a moderator would rather not see it up there. That is censorship, it is as straightforward as that. I would like to hear from Fatman as to whether he stands by his decision, and if so then why. If it is judged that accurate posts can or cannot appear on this forum according to what "Gary Johnson would or would not like" then we might as well pull the plug. Certainly, if this is the case then I'll be off. I've never threatened to leave the forum before in my ten-odd years on it, but I won't have a moderator judging whether to allow my posts to stand based on whether he thinks the club will like it or not, or whether - in his view - my post is to the good of the club. That is not an independent forum. It is a fawning slave of the club, and I won't be part of it.