I Presume No

[Henry]

I'm sure redog will admit that SOME policeman these days are a bit over zealous (if thats the right term!!!) and i for one have been on the recieving end and made a serious complaint, however, to tarnish the Police with the same brush is A. immature, and B. Pathetic.

Totally agree.

Thats my main gripe with Red Goblin.

You only have to watch the Pride of Britain awards to see that.

[rumbellow]

Well maybe I'm just unlucky but it seems to me that every time I've encountered police as a football fan I've been treated like scum which is why I hold those views. I'm not alone in that either.

I also found the policing levels over the festive period suspicious to say the least - why did we need so many coppers on new year's day?

I think there would be far more complaints were it possible to complain to someone other than the police.

i'm sorry you are just trying to make yourself look cool and failing, you are obviously an intelligent person (evidenced by other posts) but you are making yourself look foolish here.

You know 3 people who have recently joined the police and that makes you an expert on police recruitment and no, nobody is so unlucky to be treated like scum in every encounter with the police at football matches, it's impossible another silly statement.

[Nibor]

Nibor, i can see where you are coming from with what you are saying and i do agree in principle with the point you are trying to make - but please don't tar all Police Officers with the same brush.

I try not to, but that's been my experience of police at football matches.

[Nibor]

i'm sorry you are just trying to make yourself look cool and failing, you are obviously an intelligent person (evidenced by other posts) but you are making yourself look foolish here.

You know 3 people who have recently joined the police and that makes you an expert on police recruitment and no, nobody is so unlucky to be treated like scum in every encounter with the police at football matches, it's impossible another silly statement.

I've never claimed to be an expert on police recruitment, just that the people I know who joined up are completely unsuitable IMO. And are you calling me a liar? Every time I've encountered police (ie had to speak to them or been spoken to) at football I've been treated like a hooligan despite not being one. That's the truth.

Don't you think the way they hold cameras in people's faces and video them is antagonistic?

[Portishead Red]

I've never claimed to be an expert on police recruitment, just that the people I know who joined up are completely unsuitable IMO. And are you calling me a liar? Every time I've encountered police (ie had to speak to them or been spoken to) at football I've been treated like a hooligan despite not being one. That's the truth.

Don't you think the way they hold cameras in people's faces and video them is antagonistic?

Nibor, you are arguing against 2 ex coppers with over 50 years experience between them....

Give it up!

[Nibor]

Nibor, you are arguing against 2 ex coppers with over 50 years experience between them....

Give it up!

Thanks for clearing that up, rumbellow's post did make me wonder.

[Dan Of The Dolman]

What is the police defence for pushing innocent fans down flights of stairs then?!

[rumbellow]

And are you calling me a liar? Every time I've encountered police (ie had to speak to them or been spoken to) at football I've been treated like a hooligan despite not being one. That's the truth.

Everytime?, Every single time?, Well let's just say, I believe it about as much as I believe Peter Hain forgetting on 17 occasions to tell the relevant authorities about over 100k of loans, especially the loans from a think tank that to date has never had a single thought.

[WhistleHappy]

What is the police defence for pushing innocent fans down flights of stairs then?!

Oh, come on Dan, you know they were only doing their job, its all about enhancing the 'matchday experience' for the average fan.

Yourself & witnesses claimed that you were lucky not to have sustained a serious injury at the time - listen luck had nothing to do with it - these are professionals doing a professional job thats why noone was really hurt, they knew exactly what they were doing.

You were in safe hands at all times, just a bit of full-time entertainment thats all mate -bit like when people join Paul Mckenna on stage -hey afterall safety is a priority at football matches nowadays, or hadnt you noticed?

NB: Do Not Try This At Home! ...

(ps. seriously, with eye witnesses etc available at the time, did you take it any further?.. put in an official complaint or anything?

-ffs next-time someone might end up in a wheelchair with acts of mindless violence perpetrated by Police officers on innocent members of the public at football matches. They, as well as everyone else, should be held accountable for their actions.)

[Nibor]

Everytime?, Every single time?, Well let's just say, I believe it about as much as I believe Peter Hain forgetting on 17 occasions to tell the relevant authorities about over 100k of loans, especially the loans from a think tank that to date has never had a single thought.

Every single time I have had occasion to speak to a copper or be spoken to by a copper at a football match.

I am not surprised that an ex copper finds this hard to believe, it's the same attitude.

[Nogbad the Bad]

This incident was reported down here in London in the local press

Apparently it was a dad and his two sons who got caught in a crossfire between QPR and Chelsea fans fighting outside a pub

The police went in batons blazing and were going for anyone

One of the boys got bitten by a police Alsatian. his dad kicked the dog away and got set upon by the coppers. He got a punctured lung and 3 broken ribs. Alledgedly most of the beatings happeend while he was handcuffed

Oh, and he got a charge for commiting criminal damage to the dog

The guys not a hooligan or nothing. Apparently hes a normal fan who runs one of Chelseas fanzines

Reminds me of the City fan who contributes to this forum who was bitten by a police dog after a home match, arrested for protesting and got a criminal record and a 3 year ban for his trouble, if I remember the story correctly.

Absolutely shocking incident.

[rumbellow]

Reminds me of the City fan who contributes to this forum who was bitten by a police dog after a home match, arrested for protesting and got a criminal record and a 3 year ban for his trouble, if I remember the story correctly.

Absolutely shocking incident.

individual incidents, they happen.

My dad (an avid BCFC fan) died in 1991 in the BRI, His treatment whilst there was shocking, I went to visit him one evening and he had congealed vomit all over his chest, He had been sick in the morning and nobody bothered to clean him up, the state of the ward was a disgrace, the staff were rude and when his condition deteriorated there was no room in ITU so they put him into a storeroom (with all the moniters hooked up to him) which is where I watched him die and to add insult to injury the cause of death was an infection picked up after an operation.

A few years later my mother went into hospital and her treatment was'nt really up to standard, My daughter is also being severely let down by the NHS over a long term illness.

So are all NHS staff ego crazed treating patients like scum, of course not individual incidents, they happen. There are people on this forum who have had bad experiences with the police and many more who have had positive experiences, As there are people who have had bad or positive experiences with the NHS, but some of the vilification of the police on this forum is in the main pathetic and backed up by little more than hearsay and stories in the press (and of course we all know that our wonderful press won't allow the truth to get the way of a good story).

But it's cool to jump on the bandwagon.

[Henry]

Just to chuck experiences in.

Outside of football, I've had nothing but good experiences with police.

Even a conviction for a burglar!

[double-trouble]

Has it occurred to you that maybe that 16 year old lad was doing something he shouldn't and deserved to be bitten?

Read in the mirror today , certain forces are actually importing alsations from the German police force as they are not able to get the right calibre of alsation here . What made I laugh though was these dogs only respond to the german commands they have been trained to understand .

You can see where I'm coming from now . The dog handler only learnt french at school , his command of german is poor and commanded the dog to bite instead of bark .

Poor lad only dropped some litter in the stand .

[Never to the dark side]

So lets clarify, reddog and portishead red are former(or current) police officers?

If they want to defend their former(or current) employment thats fine

I would do and have done the same

Reference my posting about the amount of police at ashton gate

for our last two games(boro and coventry) it seems I am not allowed to post what I have seen?

I don't want to turn this posting into an anti police thread so

let me say that I support the police in getting a decent wage rise

Maybe one of the police officers(current and former) who read this site

can do a cut copy and paste of the front page of the current POLICE magazine

Refrence the lack of the sighting of the police helicopter its because

its OUT OF ACTION due to routine maintanance

Finally regarding the orgional time of my posting of 05:06 and the get a life comment

Is there a specified time you are only allowed to post and reply?

and if I get any more life out of my day

I would be awake 24 hours a day

[rumbellow]

So lets clarify, reddog and portishead red are former(or current) police officers?

If they want to defend their former(or current) employment thats fine

I would do and have done the same

Reference my posting about the amount of police at ashton gate

for our last two games(boro and coventry) it seems I am not allowed to post what I have seen?

I don't want to turn this posting into an anti police thread so

let me say that I support the police in getting a decent wage rise

Maybe one of the police officers(current and former) who read this site

can do a cut copy and paste of the front page of the current POLICE magazine

Refrence the lack of the sighting of the police helicopter its because

its OUT OF ACTION due to routine maintanance

Finally regarding the orgional time of my posting of 05:06 and the get a life comment

Is there a specified time you are only allowed to post and reply?

and if I get any more life out of my day

I would be awake 24 hours a day

Good morning.

I understand your concern, However unfortunately the amount of officers on duty is down to senior officers, Who in the main have little if any idea of football, football fans and the propensity for trouble at certain matches, also the amount on duty especially inside the ground is determined by the crowd size.

There will always be waste of public money and police resources taking officers away from normal police duties football and Glastonbury are 2 prime examples.

You only have to read todays Daily Express and read the article about the round the clock protection afforded to the money grabbing 'socialist' who apparently was our prime minister for 10 years a certain Mr Tony Bliar, a man who has hardly paid for anything before and since he became prime minister (especially free holidays) and a man who was more interested in building up 'Brand Blair' than checking whether the intelligence for taking us to war was correct, A man who is worth millions and earns millions, But cannot afford to contribute to his protection costs reported to be between 500k to 1million a year.

[Mr Mosquito]

what is your gripe with the police NTTDS? It seems that every week you are having a moan about them.

NTTDS is not the only one with a gripe against the Police and their blatant corruptions. I, personally, like to highlight Police corruption against our fellow football supporters while those horse riding royalist toffs and snobs that still illegally hunt down our wildlife with vicious packs of dogs go unpoliced and thus unpunished. Apparently, the London Class War movement is organising a demonstration against the Police's totally excessive wage demands as per their website header below.......

"Class War Says Give The Greedy Pigs What They Deserve - Nothing! Counter Demo Against The Filth Marching January 23rd 2008, London - Details To Be Confirmed.....Class War Wish All Our Members And Supporters A Happy, Peaceful And Free 2008 - We look forward to working with our many friends and allies in the next year, and hope to see you all again soon....."

Source: http://www.londonclasswar.org/index3.php

[reddog]

So lets clarify, reddog and portishead red are former(or current) police officers?

No, Portishead Red is NOT a current or retired police officer.

[Mr Mosquito]

You only have to read todays Daily Express and read the article about the round the clock protection afforded to the money grabbing 'socialist' who apparently was our prime minister for 10 years a certain Mr Tony Bliar, a man who has hardly paid for anything before and since he became prime minister (especially free holidays) and a man who was more interested in building up 'Brand Blair' than checking whether the intelligence for taking us to war was correct, A man who is worth millions and earns millions, But cannot afford to contribute to his protection costs reported to be between 500k to 1million a year.

Typical of the Daily Express to only mention the round the clock protection afforded to Tory B.liar. What about the round the clock protection still afforded to Margaret Thatcher? The Queen and her massive family, as leaders of a foreign and unelected ruling class, are also a drain on the taxpayer with regard to the regiments of soldiers and Police employed to protect them.

If football clubs have to pay for Policing then The Queen and her family - with all their massive wealth - should also be forced to pay for their Police protection.

[Never to the dark side]

I see, so Portishead red is the son of a retired police officer.

[Mr Mosquito]

I think maybe it is an obsession! - Maybe there is an OCD in there somewhere!!

The Police really do seem obsessed with monitoring this particular football forum.

[rumbellow]

Typically of the Daily Express to only mention the round the clock protection afforded to Tory B.liar. What about the round the clock protection still afforded to Margaret Thatcher? The Queen and her massive family as leaders of a foreign and unelected ruling class are also a drain on the taxpayer with regard to the regiments of soldiers and Police employed to protect them.

My point is people such as you and Tony Bliar made enough fuss about Margaret Thatcher and the cost of her protection and her wealth and now we have an ex 'socialist' (yeah right) leader doing exactly the same but far worse and far more corruptly, HYPOCRISY, Something I would expect a card carrying republician such as yourself should want to eradicate.

Your Army comment is very interesting, Tony Blair sent them ill equipped into an illegal war and now his sucessor Mcavity Brown has abandoned the wounded and the parents of dead soldiers treating them in a sub human way and now his home secretary is doing the same in their treatment of the police service.

Still perhaps the military and the police will stage a coup and declare the UK a republic and then you'd be happy.

[Mr Mosquito]

Your Army comment is very interesting, Tony Blair sent them into ill equipped into an illegal war and now his predecessor Mcavity Brown has abandoned the wounded and the parents of dead soldiers treating them in a sub human way and now his home secretary is doing the same in their treatment of the police service.

Still perhaps the military and the police will stage a coup and declare the UK a republic and then you'd be happy.

Of course I'd be happy. There's plenty of successful Western countries that have adopted the Republican model of government including the United States, France and Germany. The ordinary working bods - including Police - are far better off economically in those afore mentioned countries than here in the Royalist led UK.

Tony Blair is a qualified lawyer as well as an ex Prime Minister and I reckon he may be running scared with regard to The Haig bringing him to trial.

[rumbellow]

Of course I'd be happy. There's plenty of successful Western country's that have adopted the Republican model of government including the United States, France and Germany. The ordinary working bods - including Police - are far better off economically in those afore mentioned countries than here in the Royalist led UK.

Tony Blair is a qualified lawyer as well as an ex Prime Minister and I reckon he may be running scared with regard to The Haig bringing him to trial.

Do you know what?, You've actually made me smile.

I knew Blair was a lawyer but looking at the legality of some of his decisions, I don't really believe he'd make much of a living out of it.

But please don't ever hold up the USA as a successful republician model, cos your arguement would be dead in the water.

Finally I would like to make one thing very clear, I am actually republician and enjoy that way of life most of the year in France, I have never and never will be a supporter of the Royal family, However I cannot subscribe to the ludricrous view that all police are corrupt, in the same way that all NHS staff are incompetent and so forth and so on.

But whatever I was in a previous life or in my private life or what my beliefs are, I am and always will be a Bristol City fan, Which is why I contribute to this forum, I will soon be a 50 year veteran (my first match was as a 4 year old in February 1958).

[Mr Mosquito]

But please don't ever hold up the USA as a successful republician model, cos your arguement would be dead in the water.

I've got many relations in the USA including a cousin who is a Postman. He's got a detached house with grounds in New Hope, Pennsylvania. His wife works part-time and they have two cars, two kids and two cats - by golly you'd be hard pressed to have that standard of living as a Postman in this country !!!!!!! I know because I used to work for The Royalist Mail in Bristol.

[rumbellow]

I've got many relations in the USA including a cousin who is a Postman. He's got a detached house with grounds in New Hope, Pennsylvania. His wife works part-time and they have two cars, two kids and two cats - by golly you'd be hard pressed to have that standard of living as a Postman in this country !!!!!!! I know because I used to work for The Royalist Mail in Bristol.

Great, But it's America and these wonderful intellectuals voted for Bush TWICE, I met an ex CIA man last year and he told America needed a war every 10 years to keep their arms makers in business, He also told me he had been involved in 19 conflicts in his time in the CIA and had only won one of them against Grenada, if you think civil liberties are poor in the UK the good US of A is much worse, War mongerers who think they own the world.

[Mr Mosquito]

War mongerers who think they own the world.

That's a bit of a generalization as many Americans couldn't give a damn about the rest of the world. They didn't get involved in World War I or World War II at the start as the American population was against getting involved in wars between 'the olde countries' as they often used to refer to us.

Their worst experience of a foreign war must have been Vietnam - the French perhaps very wisely pulled out of that area prior to the Americans moving in. The Americans thought they could win where the French couldn't. The rest is history - by the way we've already had 3 costly wars in Afghanistan in the 19th century and got our fingers badly burned there.

[0738parkway]

Nibor, you are arguing against 2 ex coppers with over 50 years experience between them....

Give it up!

Absolute rubbish mate , u hit the nail on the head EX COPPERS i mingle with existing and socialise with a few coppers and they admit its targets they are told to meet , its about monies not policeing and these coppers i know cant wait to get out of the force , getting back to the football side of things i personally think coppers at ashton gate arnt to bad really unless they stood in the east end then they seem edgy, also the thing i disagree with if something does kick off they seem to go in all guns blazing and anyone in the vicinity either gets nicked or pushed about as if there guilty, but put it this way if I'm drink driveing on the m5 doesnt mean the can arrest every one else on the m5 cos I'm drink driveing enough said rant over

[Dolman Block B]

Absolute rubbish mate , u hit the nail on the head EX COPPERS i mingle with existing and socialise with a few coppers and they admit its targets they are told to meet , its about monies not policeing and these coppers i know cant wait to get out of the force , getting back to the football side of things i personally think coppers at ashton gate arnt to bad really unless they stood in the east end then they seem edgy, also the thing i disagree with if something does kick off they seem to go in all guns blazing and anyone in the vicinity either gets nicked or pushed about as if there guilty, but put it this way if I'm drink driveing on the m5 doesnt mean the can arrest every one else on the m5 cos I'm drink driveing enough said rant over

Probably the Best/Quote/Thread/Post ever.u need to be the next PM!!!!!!!!!

[rumbellow]

, getting back to the football side of things i personally think coppers at ashton gate arnt to bad really unless they stood in the east end then they seem edgy, also the thing i disagree with if something does kick off they seem to go in all guns blazing and anyone in the vicinity either gets nicked or pushed about as if there guilty,

I understand but this comes under the heading of 'damned if you do, damned if you don't'.

i'm sure there are times and situations where if the police don't 'go in all guns blazing' and somebody gets hurt, The complaint would be 'the police just stood by and did nothing'.

Unfortunately when confronted with a situation, unless you've witnessed the incident from the start, you have no way of gauging who the aggressor is, The priority is to stop the incident as quickly as possible and remove people who appear to be involved and then try to find out who if anyone is at fault. You cannot conduct an interview whilst the trouble is ongoing.

Also most of the 'collateral damage' (for the want of a better description) is caused to foolish people who just 'rubber neck' and get in the way, Now I know that this is human nature, But as many people might be aware this is how many accidents occur on our motorways by people being nosey.

The strange thing is when the police in Cardiff who regularly stand by and allow fighting and missile throwing to occur at good old Ninian, There are floods of complaints, As I said damned if you do, damned if don't.