Our 'fans' At Qpr

[zidereddy]

Brilliant mate must be reallly proud of your 11 year old f-ing blinding it at the home fans! Sounds like the makings of another one of our not to nice away following! Cant believe you posted this.... If my 11 yea old was using this language I would not be on hearing telling people about it!

i know i thought this was a strange thing to post sounds like a definate 'csf' member in years to come getting trained up!did make me laugh though

[Red Head]

I thought our fans were a discrace in the atmosphere department.Everytime a song was started only 10 people would sing.I'm actually getting fed up with losing my voice every week trying to make up for the lack of passion shown by many a so called city fan. The fans were shit,the game was shit and the police were shit.

What was the beer like J?

[Portishead Red]

I thought our fans were a discrace in the atmosphere department.Everytime a song was started only 10 people would sing.I'm actually getting fed up with losing my voice every week trying to make up for the lack of passion shown by many a so called city fan. The fans were shit,the game was shit and the police were shit.

Spot on. Couldnt have put it better myself!

[dezgimed]

The atmosphere was better in Walkabout than in the ground.

More enjoyable in there than Loftus Road.

:noexpression:

[Riaz]

The atmosphere was fantastic and good natured..... until the OB turned up

[Portishead Red]

I hear GJ's name chanted at every game.

Why on earth does everyone take comments on the forum so seriously?

Just had a quick look at the registered users online at the moment. One is called - Johnson out!

[Riaz]

Just had a quick look at the registered users online at the moment. One is called - Johnson out!

He must be a gashead or just very very very very very very stupid!

[rayer]

After a decade of moaning about a team and manager, its obviously very difficult to change ways in some cases. Riaz, love your sig !!!

[SimplyRed]

I was at all of those games so here's my take on it.

Some people would say that having paid a great deal of money,suffered undue & unecessary heavy handed treatment from the Met Police, then turned up to see our team outplayed. moreover out footballed by QPR, as opposed to being physically & mentally second best at Palace, that they had the right to show their displeasure at the lack of effort that undepinned the lack of quality.

Perhaps they we upset at the fact that despite SL making funds available QPR's strikeforce was head & shoulders above ours in terms of pace, first touch & technical skills, moreover, confidence.

I'd query that " fantastic" description, in fact I'll say it downright wrong.The assists table supports that.The feeling of the people that sat near me and those I discussed it with before & after the game is that however indifferently or poorly LJ plays he will not be replaced or dropped.Now, whether that's right or wrong it's their opinion as City fans although those who condemn the lad because he's Johno's son are out of order and, if that criticism should be levelled anywhere it should be at GJ's door.

If I was picking a team tomorrow, LJ wouldn't be in it.Not because, he's not a decent player. because I wouldn't start with Trundle or Byfield either and they're both decent footballers on their day, but because, my view is that Noble & Carle offer more in the final third and we have a massive issue scoring goals..in fact, based on our performances at Palace & QPR, we have massive issues all over the field at present.

Whoa there old chap-This isn't an invite system.People will come if they want, and it isn't cheap these days and support as they wish.One thing for sure is that they'll be here a long time after GJ's gone-Succesful or not.

GJ's record doesn't make him omnipotent.Yesterday, as I wrote in the R&R after the game, got it badly wrong in the way he set the team up.Had we signed a pacey forward then, OK try 4-4-2, but pick a balanced team with IS on the right and don't just whoosh it because Dele's arrived.Garner or similar didn't arrive so we are a target man better off.In fact, if ES was meant to be a target man, we're no better off in terms of numbers although, I'll stick my neck out and say Dele will be a useful addition.

Why Liam Fontaine was left out baffles me and our win against Blackpool was another game that could have gone either way, even ending in defeat after a poor second half.Vasko's played twice against QPR this season and been hauled off at half time on both occassions.Having said that, it could have been either centre back or even any of the back four.

Palace are no super team and haven't won since they beat us and Rangers got thumped at Cardiff in midweek so that would appear to make us poor, not them great.There are problems that need addressing based on our recent performances and how happy will the dressing room be if we finish eighth and make a poor start next season?

Over to GJ and I've every confidence that he'll address the issues, however, he'll need to be brave.

This is the best and most lucid post I've read on this forum for some time.

It reflects perfectly my own thoughts on Johnson Junior, his father and the team in general, and says it more eloquently than I have been able to do.

Johnson is NOT god, nor is he faultless in his management and selection of the team and is therefore, IMO, open to criticism.

It's not about where we are in the league and that we seem to be so ungrateful to Johnson for where he's got us. It's BECAUSE we are in this position that he has raised expectation and now has to handle that level of expectation. He's got us up to this level - now it's time to walk the walk.

I note from the Official Site that he had another little dig at those of us who doesn't think he walks on water ("It's a good day for the doom and gloom merchants and they'll come up with some things").

[CalgaryRed]

Yesterdays was my 11 years boy 2nd away game IN FACT he only got into football this season. All week he has been up for this game singing city songs at randon intervals through the day. He was up at 6am trying to get ready to go even though are coach did not leave till 09:30. He was singing again as we crossed London on the tube. Stood in the Pub and Joined in the banter with his chest puffed out standing 6feet tall Got in the ground and he stood a and cheered the players onto the pitch form the warm up and gave the QPRQ fans some stick. He Stood Proud and Tall when the players came out .

Then the Match started and after 15 mins he turned to me and said he felt the worse as we were playing crap. 5 Mins before half time he wanted to go home he was that deflated. He did not clap the players off at half time but did not moan and asked me why I clapped them Off I told because all thugh we were piss poor We should all ways shaw are support and Also I told them they would need all the suport they need having to go in and face GJ at half time.

He still wanted to go home as he did not share my optismison that we would get something out of the game But he stayed and made some noise at the end of the game he half hartedly clapped them off . He then said Dad we were shit today but surley we should not be booing them off.

Even though he had his dreams of going top dashed by a below par experience By the time we got home He was looking forward torwards to the Next game.

The best Part of the game for me was when he stood up and shouted For **** stake Bristol is in England Not Wales in responce to them singing Sheep Sheep Sheep Shaggers.

[Nice to see you've brought him up so well]

[Super Scotty Murray]

Basically, there is a good reason why this city has had so little success in football, and the fans yesterday explain it. This simply is not a football heartland, and i honestly think a majority of our fans havnt got a clue. They have ridiculosuly high expectations and demand success, almost as if because we are a big city we 'should' have a team in the top flight.

I am embarresed by our fans, Gary Johnson has been nothing short of inspirational in turning this club around, and after performance after performance, one bad half against a half decent qpr team and suddenly everyone is picking holes in him.

You have to take the rough with the smooth, although we had an awful first half, it wasnt for lack of effort, i just hope those players didnt hear the half time boos or we wont be keeping Elliott, Basso etc. for long because they will be running out of the door.

don't bother coming if you havnt got a clue, moan after the game, get behind the players during it.

[Seend Red]

I went to the QPR game yesterday and was quite simply appaled by the behaviour and conduct of hundreds of City fans for the way they responded to the events on the pitch. After a half in which Vasko and McCombe got utterly battered and we deservedly went in 2 goals behind, a lot of people booed at the half time whistle. I found this horrific.

You drama queen! Horrific? I suggest you use another word to descibe this, as much as I except you do not agree with the action of some i have to say to descibe people booing as horrific is laughable.

Did these people go to Hull and Burnely? Or more importantly, where they at Tranmere and Cheltenham last year? My point is, yes we were poor, but BOOING is a step too far.

Why is booing a step too far? After the Palace match I chose not to attend yesterday as I knew what was comming but If I had paid good money and given up a sizable chuck of my weekend to support the team in London then I'm entitled to express how I feel. You said it yourself ,we were poor, let them know I say....

These morons - and yes you are a moron if you booed - have VERY short memories. We are still 3rd for gods sake.

Why are they morons? maybe they think your a moron for not booing and being happy clappy! Rough with the smooth my friend, they take the plaudits when their playing well so they may have to take a few digs when they're not, it no big deal and all part of football and happens all over the place.

The ironic cheer which greeted Lee Johnson's departure was embarassing. Anyone can see that although there are faults with LJ's game, we have no one at the club who can play the role he can in the middle of the park and his delivery from set pieces has been fantastic this year, culminating in many goals from his set plays.

Nick Carle and David Noble for a start. BTW the only thing embarrassing is your post whinging and moaning about other supporters! G Johnson has got you sucked right in hasn't he! Plus why come on here after the event having a dig when you were in the perfect position to challenge some of these so called morons, did you have a word at the match or did you think to yourself right thats it, When I get home I'm going to have a moan on the forum, that will show them!

Please, give it a rest.......

[tinman-is-god]

You drama queen! Horrific? I suggest you use another word to descibe this, as much as I except you do not agree with the action of some i have to say to descibe people booing as horrific is laughable.

Why is booing a step too far? After the Palace match I chose not to attend yesterday as I knew what was comming but If I had paid good money and given up a sizable chuck of my weekend to support the team in London then I'm entitled to express how I feel. You said it yourself ,we were poor, let them know I say....

Why are they morons? maybe they think your a moron for not booing and being happy clappy! Rough with the smooth my friend, they take the plaudits when their playing well so they may have to take a few digs when they're not, it no big deal and all part of football and happens all over the place.

Nick Carle and David Noble for a start. BTW the only thing embarrassing is your post whinging and moaning about other supporters! G Johnson has got you sucked right in hasn't he! Plus why come on here after the event having a dig when you were in the perfect position to challenge some of these so called morons, did you have a word at the match or did you think to yourself right thats it, When I get home I'm going to have a moan on the forum, that will show them!

Please, give it a rest.......

Looks like i've found a bit of opposition in taking the step of critiscising fans. I find it ironic how fans who regularly slag off the side cannot stand it when they themselves are questioned about their performance.

You are 100% correct by the way- GJ has completely sucked me in. He's sucked me in to being appreciative of our current position and sucked me into wathcing players who give 100% and never lose for the lack of trying. I am firmly in the happy clappy brigade simply because to not be in it is virtually impossible- as i have said elsewhere, we must view our position with perspective and not simply be reactive to individual results. Yesterday we were poor- i am not challanging that, i am just asking fans to channel their displeasure ( i didn't enjoy yesterday one bit) in a more constructive fashion

I will not give it a rest because this is an open forum for views to be debated and exchanged. Thats the point of a forum.

I presume you want Noble to replace Johnson. I also presume that you choose to ignore LJ's constant box-to-box play and positional awareness, fitness and passing ability. I like Noble but he simply does not have the fitness to play in the middle of the park and cannot compete with LJ's fitness levels, plus Noble can have a tendency to want a little bit too much time on the ball. He is a good squadie, but unless he plays behind the 1 up front, we can't really afford to have him in there. Unfourtantely it looks as if he is turning into a bit of a luxury player.

Feel free to respond, and don't give it a rest, surely this forum is all about exchanging views? I welcome a reply.

CTID

[dezgimed]

Looks like i've found a bit of opposition in taking the step of critiscising fans. I find it ironic how fans who regularly slag off the side cannot stand it when they themselves are questioned about their performance.

Are you for real??

Players are paid. Fans arent. Fans pay!

Theres no irony there. The only time you can criticise fans for their performance is when they're doing a job, not when they're spending their hard earned money on a past time.

[discoduster]

The fans were shit,the game was shit and the police were shit.

Apart from that, it was great.

[greenun]

Are you for real??

Players are paid. Fans arent. Fans pay!

Theres no irony there. The only time you can criticise fans for their performance is when they're doing a job, not when they're spending their hard earned money on a past time.

Although I believe that City's players are well paid servants who benefit greatly from the hard-earned wages of their paying supporters, booing them is wrong.

Unless the protagonists construct an argument which states that booing has a positive effect on our players, then I suggest they give up; or better still support Rovers.

[Seend Red]

Looks like i've found a bit of opposition in taking the step of critiscising fans. I find it ironic how fans who regularly slag off the side cannot stand it when they themselves are questioned about their performance.

You are 100% correct by the way- GJ has completely sucked me in. He's sucked me in to being appreciative of our current position and sucked me into wathcing players who give 100% and never lose for the lack of trying. I am firmly in the happy clappy brigade simply because to not be in it is virtually impossible- as i have said elsewhere, we must view our position with perspective and not simply be reactive to individual results. Yesterday we were poor- i am not challanging that, i am just asking fans to channel their displeasure ( i didn't enjoy yesterday one bit) in a more constructive fashion

I will not give it a rest because this is an open forum for views to be debated and exchanged. Thats the point of a forum.

Fans questioned about their performance? WTF! So now people who pay to watch wealthy professional footballers as a pastime are having to be judge by nerds like you, I don't want to get persoanl but listen to yourself, who are you to judge other members of the public who just happen to support the same football side as you. I have not heard such pretentious ramblings for a very long time on this forum. Well done you.

Please tell me how to you suggest people vent their frustration after travelling from Bristol and spending good money for tickets, food and drink etc and then watch their team play as if they had only just met 5 minutes proir to KO. you state in a constructive fashion, please share?

You also need to remember in sport you only as good as your last game and the fact that we're 3rd is irrelevant as people are disapointed with yesterday performance.

I presume you want Noble to replace Johnson. I also presume that you choose to ignore LJ's constant box-to-box play and positional awareness, fitness and passing ability. I like Noble but he simply does not have the fitness to play in the middle of the park and cannot compete with LJ's fitness levels, plus Noble can have a tendency to want a little bit too much time on the ball. He is a good squadie, but unless he plays behind the 1 up front, we can't really afford to have him in there. Unfourtantely it looks as if he is turning into a bit of a luxury player.

Feel free to respond, and don't give it a rest, surely this forum is all about exchanging views? I welcome a reply.

You didn't comment about Carle taking the central mid role along side Elliott? As for Noble I think we're a much better side going forward with Noble in the team, he undoubtedly is the best attacking midfielder at the club and I don't really undertstand why he doesn't get a look in. other than not being related to the manager that is

[GrahamC]

Since fatherhood in 2004, and because it co-incided with my old man's 67th birthday and an opportunity to catch up with my London based brother, it was my first away game yesterday in over 4 years.

I was a regular away from the glory days, through the misery of '82 and the Jordan era and was appalled at the "support" given by many of the plankton who followed us yesterday, (especially in Block Y2).

Inside the first ten minutes I heard McAllister , LJ (naturally) and bizarrely Adebola being roundly abused by our own fans.

Let's be honest, we were woeful yesterday, but I have no idea what purpose is served by abusing our players when the game had barely started and giving a substitution a standing ovation, all very sad.

We're in third place when we probably expected to be in the bottom six, if we played like this regularly I might understand it, but GJ must wonder sometimes what is going on.

[tinman-is-god]

Fans questioned about their performance? WTF! So now people who pay to watch wealthy professional footballers as a pastime are having to be judge by nerds like you, I don't want to get persoanl but listen to yourself, who are you to judge other members of the public who just happen to support the same football side as you. I have not heard such pretentious ramblings for a very long time on this forum. Well done you.

Please tell me how to you suggest people vent their frustration after travelling from Bristol and spending good money for tickets, food and drink etc and then watch their team play as if they had only just met 5 minutes proir to KO. you state in a constructive fashion, please share?

You also need to remember in sport you only as good as your last game and the fact that we're 3rd is irrelevant as people are disapointed with yesterday performance.

You didn't comment about Carle taking the central mid role along side Elliott? As for Noble I think we're a much better side going forward with Noble in the team, he undoubtedly is the best attacking midfielder at the club and I don't really undertstand why he doesn't get a look in. other than not being related to the manager that is

I like the way that you do not want to make it personal but proceed to do so anyway, interesting. I do believe (in response to another poster too) that fans can be judged on our performance. How often do we take praise from opposition fans if we have been loud? There are regular posts on the forum (rightly) praising us, you often see threads such as 'Great Support today'

Thus, if we can accept praise and be good at being fans, we can logically accept critiscism and have 'bad' days as fans. I travel from Cardiff to every game and am a student spending a lot of money on BCFC- why? Because I love it, as I am sure you do. Booing is not constructive and rarely justifiable. If you chose to boo yesterday i would argue that you are very short sighted and need to look at the bigger picture.

I see Carle in the role just behind Adebola personally, i feel that if he were in the middle next to Marv we would not be utilising his attacking ability and asking him to do too much defensively, which is not what we signed him for. For me, he is an attacking midfielder probably wasted in doing the work he would have to do that LJ currently does.

In sport you are only as good as your last game? A tired, old cliche which if applied is often wrong. Anything can happen in one game, its where you stand over a period of games that shows the true ability of a club. Man City beat Man U this year, yet Man U's class will tell and they will finish way ahead of Man City. In reality you are as good as the league table suggests, not your last game.

[tinman-is-god]

In response to Bristol Boy:

Although Lee Johnson may not have the assists to his name statistically, it is clear that his delivery from set pieces has led to many goals for us. As I am sure you yourself have seen, LJ often plays it in to Vasko/Elliot/McCombe to head back across the box which causes mayhem and has led to goals, such as Middlesbrough in the cup. Of course LJ will not receive a direct assist, but his set pieces have been very good this year and become part of our biggest threat going forward. For me, LJ's set piece delivery is far better than Tinman's for example, who regularly tossed up floaters for any half decent keeper to easily grab.

I understand the view that 'i pay my money, i boo if i want, it is my right etc' but it is one that i do not have much sympathy for. I believe that fans do have a right to boo, and there are times i myself accept that booing is necessary. For example, towards the end of Pulis' reign he was regularly booed because he was taking the club in the wrong direction and serving us trip for us to watch. By complete contrast, GJ is taking us in the right direction. Performances like yesterday are rare and luckily we have been able to watch us compete in all but 3 games this year, which is great testament to GJ and the players.

Bristol Boy, if booing is acceptable, as you clearly believe it is, to a side that are 3rd in the Championship, do you not think this is short sighted? We just got outplayed yesterday. All our players gave 100% and we just had a bad day at the office.

You boo when players do not give 100% and are at the club for the wrong reasons. None of the side that played yesterday can be attacked on those grounds.

Support the team, sing, praise and don't boo when we are 3rd in the league. Is that not just a common sense view?

[DeadmanTF1]

Brilliant mate must be reallly proud of your 11 year old f-ing blinding it at the home fans! Sounds like the makings of another one of our not to nice away following! Cant believe you posted this.... If my 11 yea old was using this language I would not be on hearing telling people about it!

I think u missed the point of the Post He very rarley swears ( In front of me anyway) But he was wound up and disapointed over the display he did. Are you telling me that you can watch the City and not swear.

[Scroobs]

I thought our fans were a discrace in the atmosphere department.Everytime a song was started only 10 people would sing.I'm actually getting fed up with losing my voice every week trying to make up for the lack of passion shown by many a so called city fan. The fans were shit,the game was shit and the police were shit.

Totally agree, especially about the lack of singing by our supporters. Like it or not, and I said the same thing away to Palace if it wasn't for the (what some of you call) Hoolies then again the singing would of been dire and in all honesty totally embarrasing.

I'm not too sure what age some of you posters are, but I think a lot of you need to get a grip on what "watching football" is all about!!.......we are not watching bowls.

[numbeast]

Guys and Girls Sh Sh ..... it happens Ipswich and WBA spring to mind but hey we're now a little fish in a much larger pond and more than holding our own. Just remember how much QPR have spent in January.Bad performance? maybe. But how many of you would have settled for 3rd in the ccc in August? We lost so what lets get behind the lads next game and help them to a win!

Come on yooooou reds

[WTFiGO!?!]

If someone pays the entrance fee, they can shout and boo as much as they like and nothing can be done about it. (Unless they sign a contract before entering)

You definately wanna get your Ziderhead avator on here.

As for City fan's generally relying on City performing for them to be supportive.... yep, that's sadly the way it is.

[WTFiGO!?!]

Fans questioned about their performance? WTF! So now people who pay to watch wealthy professional footballers as a pastime are having to be judge by nerds like you, I don't want to get persoanl but listen to yourself, who are you to judge other members of the public who just happen to support the same football side as you. I have not heard such pretentious ramblings for a very long time on this forum. Well done you.

Please tell me how to you suggest people vent their frustration after travelling from Bristol and spending good money for tickets, food and drink etc and then watch their team play as if they had only just met 5 minutes proir to KO. you state in a constructive fashion, please share?

You also need to remember in sport you only as good as your last game and the fact that we're 3rd is irrelevant as people are disapointed with yesterday performance.

You didn't comment about Carle taking the central mid role along side Elliott? As for Noble I think we're a much better side going forward with Noble in the team, he undoubtedly is the best attacking midfielder at the club and I don't really undertstand why he doesn't get a look in. other than not being related to the manager that is

Have you got a girlfriend?

[Waffleflap]

What was the beer like J?

A barrel of cheddar valley on the minibus done the trick.

[Bristol Boy]

In response to Bristol Boy:

Although Lee Johnson may not have the assists to his name statistically, it is clear that his delivery from set pieces has led to many goals for us. As I am sure you yourself have seen, LJ often plays it in to Vasko/Elliot/McCombe to head back across the box which causes mayhem and has led to goals, such as Middlesbrough in the cup. Of course LJ will not receive a direct assist, but his set pieces have been very good this year and become part of our biggest threat going forward. For me, LJ's set piece delivery is far better than Tinman's for example, who regularly tossed up floaters for any half decent keeper to easily grab.

I wouldn't say LJ's set pieces have been as good this season as last and one goal and 4 assists in almost thirty games is a poor return.For me, Tinnion's set pieces can be split into two categories.Early days, superb, as he grew older, poor-His legs went, simple as that and I would rate Tinnion far more highly than LJ particularly in his early days and for long range (30 yards+) passing there is no comparison.

I understand the view that 'i pay my money, i boo if i want, it is my right etc' but it is one that i do not have much sympathy for. I believe that fans do have a right to boo, and there are times i myself accept that booing is necessary. For example, towards the end of Pulis' reign he was regularly booed because he was taking the club in the wrong direction and serving us trip for us to watch.

But it still didn't do the players any good.What that demonstrates is that the booing is mainly directed out of frustration.

By complete contrast, GJ is taking us in the right direction. Performances like yesterday are rare and luckily we have been able to watch us compete in all but 3 games this year, which is great testament to GJ and the players.

No one is complaining about where we are-It's what we've seen and our away form has dipped dramatically over the last five games.

Bristol Boy, if booing is acceptable, as you clearly believe it is, to a side that are 3rd in the Championship, do you not think this is short sighted? We just got outplayed yesterday. All our players gave 100% and we just had a bad day at the office.

The players & manager, clearly can do far better-They have and will do better-For me that makes the performances at Palace & QPR more, not less unacceptable

You boo when players do not give 100% and are at the club for the wrong reasons. None of the side that played yesterday can be attacked on those grounds.

Support the team, sing, praise and don't boo when we are 3rd in the league. Is that not just a common sense view?

As I said, we did not see eleven players giving 100% and GJ has said as much.Boo or not, it's your choice as is how you support and I didn't boo or walk out.We were all badly let down at both Selhurst Pk & Loftus Rd.

[exiledinwatford]

On the great subject of booing I can only admit to doing it once - at the famous Bournemouth home game when Ward mistakenly (and very cleverly) convinced the players that the booing was directed at them and not him for persisting with such defensive tactics. I must have booed Steve Jones but can't actually remember - shame on me. Oh and pulis of course - does that count though? I guess we all should come to terms with it and admit that it doesn't help the players but some people will choose it as an outlet to their frustration.

With regard to LJ I still can't quite understand why he wants to play in a side managed by his Dad in the first place. He's a good enough player to earn a good living elsewhere - why does he choose to put a target on his back? For me LJ and GJ are only asking for trouble - sooner or later it will be time to replace him with someone better. What a decision that will be for a close family member - what if Marvin Elliott mark II becomes available? Will uncle Pete find him in the first place? At work it's called "conflict of interests" and isn't allowed in many large companies for pretty good reasons. I firmly believe he gets preferential treatment - he is the player who is never rested and rarely taken off. As for the ironic cheers at his substitution he didn't deserve those as he is a good player but maybe GJ should take notice and put someone else's name at the top of the teamsheet.

As for people who think that as we in 3rd spot, the manager, chairman, team are bulletproof forget it. Applaud them all for their many, many, many strengths but don't let them forget their weaknesses - how else will they improve? It would be nice to see a message saying "I wish GJ would have Scot Murray on the bench instead of Cole Skuse" without the threat of being called a "moaner" or "GJ basher" or "some people are never satisfied" or "we are 3rd in the league FFS remember where we were 1, 3, 5, 7 100 years ago"

Rant over - BTW if you want moaning fans try living in Watford! They're 2nd and moaning is all I hear!

[dezgimed]

On the great subject of booing I can only admit to doing it once - at the famous Bournemouth home game when Ward mistakenly (and very cleverly) convinced the players that the booing was directed at them and not him for persisting with such defensive tactics. I must have booed Steve Jones but can't actually remember - shame on me. Oh and pulis of course - does that count though? I guess we all should come to terms with it and admit that it doesn't help the players but some people will choose it as an outlet to their frustration.

With regard to LJ I still can't quite understand why he wants to play in a side managed by his Dad in the first place. He's a good enough player to earn a good living elsewhere - why does he choose to put a target on his back? For me LJ and GJ are only asking for trouble - sooner or later it will be time to replace him with someone better. What a decision that will be for a close family member - what if Marvin Elliott mark II becomes available? Will uncle Pete find him in the first place? At work it's called "conflict of interests" and isn't allowed in many large companies for pretty good reasons. I firmly believe he gets preferential treatment - he is the player who is never rested and rarely taken off. As for the ironic cheers at his substitution he didn't deserve those as he is a good player but maybe GJ should take notice and put someone else's name at the top of the teamsheet.

As for people who think that as we in 3rd spot, the manager, chairman, team are bulletproof forget it. Applaud them all for their many, many, many strengths but don't let them forget their weaknesses - how else will they improve? It would be nice to see a message saying "I wish GJ would have Scot Murray on the bench instead of Cole Skuse" without the threat of being called a "moaner" or "GJ basher" or "some people are never satisfied" or "we are 3rd in the league FFS remember where we were 1, 3, 5, 7 100 years ago"

Rant over - BTW if you want moaning fans try living in Watford! They're 2nd and moaning is all I hear!

Top post.

Although I cant believe some fans believe Gary is too professional to play his son for family reasons...

Wakey wakey.

[tinman-is-god]

As I said, we did not see eleven players giving 100% and GJ has said as much.Boo or not, it's your choice as is how you support and I didn't boo or walk out.We were all badly let down at both Selhurst Pk & Loftus Rd.

The difference is i do not think we were 'badly let down'. This is a gross exaggaration. We will lose games, you know that as well as I do, and the fact that we have performed poorly and not got results does not mean we were 'badly let down' it simply means we lost a game, which is always going to happen. Also, how were we badly let down at Palace? Until their 2nd goal, we looked OK and if McIndoe had scored his one on one it could well have been different. At QPR we were crap, at Palace (apart from first 20mins) we competed and had a few chances to draw level. If that is 'badly let down' then you and I have a very different reading of what constitutes being let down. We are not that good a side and we need to realise this. Our goal difference is -1 and we are 3rd. We tend to squeeze out wins (with the exception of Coventry) and many of our wins have been tight affairs. Language like we 'were badly let down' are too reactionary and do not, as I keep saying, look at the result in the CONTEXT of our current situation. Reactionary fans are not rational fans.

Also, you seem to have completely missed my point about LJ - i know he has only got 4 assists but that is because he aims to the far post for Vasko, Marv or McCombe. Thus he doesn't receive direct assists so an appeal to the number of assists is not one which is a fair judge. A better judgement of his delivery would be to look at the amount of goals or shots on target that his free kicks produce, which in my experience this season, have been many and his set piece delivery has been very good, consistently finding his man at the far post.

Also, i cannot really comment on your Tinnion refrence, as i only started watching every week from 97 onwards, and all I remember about his set pieces is that they were, in general, pretty poor and we rarely threatened, whereas with LJ taking them, we look a constant threat at set plays.