LJ speaks..

[Saunders87]

6 hours ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

I agree new season fresh start and I don't see my post as 'slating the bloke' or 'taking every opportunity to knock him'.

Just reiterating the fact that a lot of City fans are far from convinced Lee Johnson should be manager of Bristol City, and that debate will definitely continue.

Coming on a forum and calling for debate to halt on a subject that clearly strongly divides opinion seems to me an odd and unhealthy thing in itself.

In fairness my comments about taking every opportunity was on the wider scale not directed at you per say. 

Quite often tho it's not a debate it's just looking for an excuse to fire some in to the bloke, as I said earlier on in this post, last season I strongly voiced my opinion about wanting the guy to leave. Since then people have left the club who clearly were working against LJ and creating a bad atmosphere in the group, and as I said negativity creates negativity so on that basis I'm prepared to give the bloke a fresh slate for the new season.

[Guest]

54 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

That's the difference though Dave. Look how you have worded it. He's recovered a bit but has a way to go to turn you around. You haven't slagged him off. You haven't thrown your toys out of the pram that he's still here. You're not necessarily happy he's still here but get that he is and can back him to an extent. It's not creating a nasty environment. The club doesn't need that negativity. It genuinely feels people would rather be relegated and LJ sacked then to have a top 10 season. Either one in just as likely as the other because there isn't much between them. I think it's sad that there seemingly is a large portion of fans here that would rather be L1 right now without LJ. You don't have to like the bloke but give him a few games before you write off the season. 

What till like the xmas window by any chance and then till those imports have bedded in. LJ is taking a big risk and I believe even with the players he has got you could say only Flint is the one to be "selected" every game and even he might not be here much longer. I expect many changes in his team selection as he strives to find a winning one, we have on paper it seems a worse team/squad than last seasons recorded breaking one, boosted by 2 guys I`ve never even heard of.

I don't see that as being negative just realistic, and yes LJ may yet bring in a couple more, I doubt it, but I cant see much hope this season based soley on what players and manager has learnt from last season.

You don't have to agree with everything that goes on in your club, what the manager says or does or even with everything said on this forum; we are still allowed to think for ourselves and express our views otherwise there`s no point of a forum that agrees with everything the club says/does.

[JoeAman08]

23 minutes ago, glos old boy said:

What till like the xmas window by any chance and then till those imports have bedded in. LJ is taking a big risk and I believe even with the players he has got you could say only Flint is the one to be "selected" every game and even he might not be here much longer. I expect many changes in his team selection as he strives to find a winning one, we have on paper it seems a worse team/squad than last seasons recorded breaking one, boosted by 2 guys I`ve never even heard of.

I don't see that as being negative just realistic, and yes LJ may yet bring in a couple more, I doubt it, but I cant see much hope this season based soley on what players and manager has learnt from last season.

You don't have to agree with everything that goes on in your club, what the manager says or does or even with everything said on this forum; we are still allowed to think for ourselves and express our views otherwise there`s no point of a forum that agrees with everything the club says/does.

I'm fine with disagreement but it seems that the negativity could spill over from the stands to the pitch far too early in the season to be productive. He's here so I think the least we can do is get behind them until October even for the most pessimistic. 

With the squad it's all about opinions. The two we brought in come with high pedigree. Think that's all you can ask of the club. The rest of the squad I like without being overly keen. It's definitely enough to stay up. There are easily 7-8 worse off than us in terms of talent at least. Of course we need to be organised and ready from the start. Two more quality and I could see us top 10 depending on what positions and such. We will see. 

[Guest]

36 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

I'm fine with disagreement but it seems that the negativity could spill over from the stands to the pitch far too early in the season to be productive. He's here so I think the least we can do is get behind them until October even for the most pessimistic. 

With the squad it's all about opinions. The two we brought in come with high pedigree. Think that's all you can ask of the club. The rest of the squad I like without being overly keen. It's definitely enough to stay up. There are easily 7-8 worse off than us in terms of talent at least. Of course we need to be organised and ready from the start. Two more quality and I could see us top 10 depending on what positions and such. We will see. 

You could say the "negativity" woke them the hell up last season and its also been stated by a few on here that this is such a small part of our support it makes no difference.

As for 7-8 teams worse than us that is a hope i.m.o, as for a quite a while last season even with a proven goal-scorer on-board we struggled to keep half that number below us . 

We need our record signing to be another Kod, at least for us to keep out of the bottom 6 but yes we will see.

 

[BRISTOL86]

4 minutes ago, glos old boy said:

You could say the "negativity" woke them the hell up last season and its also been stated by a few on here that this is such a small part of our support it makes no difference.

As for 7-8 teams worse than us that is a hope i.m.o, as for a quite a while last season even with a proven goal-scorer on-board we struggled to keep half that number below us . 

We need our record signing to be another Kod, at least for us to keep out of the bottom 6 but yes we will see.

 

See I would say for me, to avoid a repeat of last season, it's all about improving the defence and keeping the ball out of OUR net. Too much emphasis always seems to get placed on goals scored whereas the real fault over the last couple of years has been at the other end. We scored more goals than Huddersfield last season and also scored freely in 15/16 when again we spent most of the time in and around the drop zone. 

Hopefully Pisano will help one one side, but I still think we need a quality defensive midfielder to break up play. We were far too easy to walk through last season, and it was bordering on ridiculous how often very average teams would tear us apart on the flanks.

[BigTone]

1 hour ago, JoeAman08 said:

There are easily 7-8 worse off than us in terms of talent at least.

We cannot rely on teams being worse than us. We need to ensure we are better than them.

[richwwtk]

On 15/07/2017 at 20:36, BigTone said:

In which case it should have been enforced by the club.

It was. he didn't move, we got rid.

[Robbored]

10 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

See I would say for me, to avoid a repeat of last season, it's all about improving the defence and keeping the ball out of OUR net. Too much emphasis always seems to get placed on goals scored whereas the real fault over the last couple of years has been at the other end. We scored more goals than Huddersfield last season and also scored freely in 15/16 when again we spent most of the time in and around the drop zone. 

Hopefully Pisano will help one one side, but I still think we need a quality defensive midfielder to break up play. We were far too easy to walk through last season, and it was bordering on ridiculous how often very average teams would tear us apart on the flanks.

Spot on B86.

All the whingers complaining about not replacing Tammy overlook that we conceded far too many goals.

It a team game after all.

[BigTone]

1 minute ago, richwwtk said:

It was. he didn't move, we got rid.

I've already given my response to this question earlier in the thread

[BRISTOL86]

11 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Spot on B86.

All the whingers complaining about not replacing Tammy overlook that we conceded far too many goals.

It a team game after all.

Was exactly the same in 15/16 when we scored plenty (comparative to league pos) and I seem to remember the same when we had a crap season in L1 when Baldock was top scorer? All the moans were about lack of goals scored and how he should have had 112 goals that season, but the problem again was being far too easy to score against. 

I can't remember the last time we weren't saying 'we'll never replace [insert striker's name here] goals', yet we always do.

46 1-0 wins would do me nicely  

Build from the back - teams that are hard to score against achieve things....

[Major Isewater]

12 hours ago, Barry Sheene said:

I am absolutely staggered that an asset of the football club was allowed to live in Leicester and allowed to travel daily while he gets paid so handsomely.

I thought we were getting more professional but obviously not.

Living in Leicester and playing for us would suggest to me he doesn't really care who pays his wages. 

And nice work by the club getting rid of the guy and with a fee ! 

[downendcity]

17 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

See I would say for me, to avoid a repeat of last season, it's all about improving the defence and keeping the ball out of OUR net. Too much emphasis always seems to get placed on goals scored whereas the real fault over the last couple of years has been at the other end. We scored more goals than Huddersfield last season and also scored freely in 15/16 when again we spent most of the time in and around the drop zone. 

Hopefully Pisano will help one one side, but I still think we need a quality defensive midfielder to break up play. We were far too easy to walk through last season, and it was bordering on ridiculous how often very average teams would tear us apart on the flanks.

I know it's sacreligious to suggest this, but in defence over the last 2 years Flint has been a consistent factor. I m not doubting his ability, battling for the cause and for the badge etc. etc. but as I suggested on another thread, is the problem perhaps finding a player to play alongside Flint in central defence? 

It might be the case that Wright and Magners or Magners and Moore could be a better and stronger pairing than Flint and anyone else and if so, were Flint to go could it turn out a blessing in disguise, much as though many could not believe that this could be the case - sorry Dolly?!

As Ive said this is not a criticism of Flint, and in truth I would want him to stay because he is such a strong player and a bit of a talisman. However,  we all noticed that once `Tomlin was not being selected, LJ picked a midfield and Taylor that together performed more effectively than any selection that did involve Tomlin, and before that how many would not have wanted Tomlin as first name on the team sheet?

 

[downendcity]

3 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

Was exactly the same in 15/16 when we scored plenty (comparative to league pos) and I seem to remember the same when we had a crap season in L1 when Baldock was top scorer? All the moans were about lack of goals scored and how he should have had 112 goals that season, but the problem again was being far too easy to score against. 

I can't remember the last time we weren't saying 'we'll never replace [insert striker's name here] goals', yet we always do.

46 1-0 wins would do me nicely  

Build from the back - teams that are hard to score against achieve things....

We'd still have some coming on here moaning that they want to be entertained!

[downendcity]

12 hours ago, Barry Sheene said:

I am absolutely staggered that an asset of the football club was allowed to live in Leicester and allowed to travel daily while he gets paid so handsomely.

I thought we were getting more professional but obviously not.

Living in Leicester and playing for us would suggest to me he doesn't really care who pays his wages. 

How would the club make him live in Bristol?

It might have been a condition of his contract, but would we really want to taking legal action for breach of contract - that would go down well given the way things went last season.

It might have been something agreed verbally between the club and player when his contract was being negotiated, but if LT wanted to be difficult he could give any number of reasons/excuses for not moving - family problems, struggling to see his property in Leicester, and once again would the club want to get into a slanging match with a player in the middle of a difficult season - I know that Tomlin wanted to get into a slanging match with the club ( well, LJ) - as that could have enabled Tomlin to get other players on his side.

If things were going well last season then it would not have been a problem, but given everything that happened, and what we have learned about things behind the scenes with Tomlin, his travelling down daily doesn't look a good idea and makes me question just how committed he was to being part of BCFC, and would other players have felt the same way? 

[BRISTOL86]

19 minutes ago, downendcity said:

I know it's sacreligious to suggest this, but in defence over the last 2 years Flint has been a consistent factor. I m not doubting his ability, battling for the cause and for the badge etc. etc. but as I suggested on another thread, is the problem perhaps finding a player to play alongside Flint in central defence? 

It might be the case that Wright and Magners or Magners and Moore could be a better and stronger pairing than Flint and anyone else and if so, were Flint to go could it turn out a blessing in disguise, much as though many could not believe that this could be the case - sorry Dolly?!

As Ive said this is not a criticism of Flint, and in truth I would want him to stay because he is such a strong player and a bit of a talisman. However,  we all noticed that once `Tomlin was not being selected, LJ picked a midfield and Taylor that together performed more effectively than any selection that did involve Tomlin, and before that how many would not have wanted Tomlin as first name on the team sheet?

 

Couldn't agree more. I like Flint, he's as good as anything we have in the squad but you have to ask questions. I think more culpability lies with very poor full backs and a toothless midfield but he has still been an ever present in a consistently woeful defence. I'd be sad to see Flint leave but I don't think he's as irreplaceable as some suggest.

[Red Skin]

On 15/07/2017 at 22:35, Kid in the Riot said:

Smacks of an SL led with MA/LJ support vanity signing in the mold of the David James signing. 

No proper consideration of where Tomlin will actually fit into the club/team long term but cus the fans liked him for a few months let's go and take a massive gamble in order to please them.

Like you say, hopefully lessons learnt.

Oh come on, that's revisionism of the highest order.  LT had a massive role in keeping the club up in his loan period.

When LT signed I'm sure I recall LJ stating that he was a maverick and someone that did NOT meet profile that the club liked for in a player, but that he was a special talent that was worth this risk.  We took it and it didn't work out.

In the words of The Buzzcocks, Ever Fallen In Love With Someone You Shouldn't Have Fallen In Love With?

[Son of Fred]

On 15/07/2017 at 20:45, GrahamC said:

So, Gary O'Neil, commuting every day from London last season apparently, how does that work?

It doesn't really work-makes you tired, irritable and physically not at your best..

Far from a good way for a pro sportsman to prepare his mind & body.

[JoeAman08]

1 hour ago, BigTone said:

We cannot rely on teams being worse than us. We need to ensure we are better than them.

No I don't want to rely on them but I mention because I feel the talks of our squad being weak are overblown. Questions about the coach putting it together are fine if not mentioned too often. So when I say at least 7-8 teams worse than us i say it to point out that we have enough talent which many are questioning. Just hope us as a fan base are supportive going into the season. It'll only help as I don't think anyone wants relegation. 

[Son of Fred]

11 hours ago, john from high littleton said:

My original comment was one that expressed my view that that the fact that some on here constantly attack LJ, doesn't really matter because this forum is such a small gene pool of self important pomp that it didn't really matter. You went on to state none of your close associates support him. I then stated we had a poll on here that seemed to actually be more in favour than against him. My point being, that there are obviously fans in favour of him (me being one) which seems to back up my point that if you yourself  know nobody whatsoever in favour of him. Then it would seem to suggest you and your friends are all swimming in the same pond. However I agree a poll on here is unrepresentative of the whole fan Base, and it's extremely unlikely anyone could know if the majority of fans are in favour or against.

So I stick by my original comment, that the fact that LJ is attacked by a small group of repressives on here. Doesn't really matter, in the wider scheme of things. 

If the debacle last season hasn't raised doubts for you I'd be surprised..

My own 'gene pool' says it would be great to see Lee succeed here-however,the jury is very much still out..

Bottem six at Christmas(which is not at all beyond the realms)and Lee will have 'ees plug pulled new year.

[Major Isewater]

1 hour ago, Red Army Faction said:

Oh come on, that's revisionism of the highest order.  LT had a massive role in keeping the club up in his loan period.

When LT signed I'm sure I recall LJ stating that he was a maverick and someone that did NOT meet profile that the club liked for in a player, but that he was a special talent that was worth this risk.  We took it and it didn't work out.

In the words of The Buzzcocks, Ever Fallen In Love With Someone You Shouldn't Have Fallen In Love With?

Or as Pénétration put it ,

" Life's a gamble " 

[INCRED]

4 hours ago, Saunders87 said:

In fairness my comments about taking every opportunity was on the wider scale not directed at you per say. 

Quite often tho it's not a debate it's just looking for an excuse to fire some in to the bloke, as I said earlier on in this post, last season I strongly voiced my opinion about wanting the guy to leave. Since then people have left the club who clearly were working against LJ and creating a bad atmosphere in the group, and as I said negativity creates negativity so on that basis I'm prepared to give the bloke a fresh slate for the new season.

It's a shame that certain players plotted against LJ and have paid the price, that is a fact if life and he or the club had to get rid for the sake of backing the head coach who they have invested a lot of faith. Not sure what went on regards due diligence on LT but it appears to have been a risk that nearly sunk us back to L1

LJ needs to get off to a decent start otherwise the vulchers will be circling ready to pick at the carcus and demand change

i think with a few additions he and the team will flourish this coming season - in hope as I forked out for a ST first time in 50 years!!

['Orns]

FWIW - this is what I was told, apologies if someone has already done this, but I can't be arsed to go thru it all after reading the first page and a half

LT signed a contract with a 'live in Bristol' stipulation, and did indeed get a place in the city
Off the field issues meant he wanted to be back in Leicester, with the wife (and kids?)

As GoN didn't have the stipulation and travelled every day (albeit with a driver that he paid for himself) LT took it upon himself to do exactly what he wanted

You can use this as a stick to beat LJ with, but as others have said, we've got best part of £3m for someone who was obviously not enjoying himself, not playing well, seemingly not socialising with his team mates. I know who's camp I'm in with this one

[City Ben]

4 hours ago, BRISTOL86 said:

See I would say for me, to avoid a repeat of last season, it's all about improving the defence and keeping the ball out of OUR net. Too much emphasis always seems to get placed on goals scored whereas the real fault over the last couple of years has been at the other end. We scored more goals than Huddersfield last season and also scored freely in 15/16 when again we spent most of the time in and around the drop zone. 

Hopefully Pisano will help one one side, but I still think we need a quality defensive midfielder to break up play. We were far too easy to walk through last season, and it was bordering on ridiculous how often very average teams would tear us apart on the flanks.

I think this is exactly right. Football *is* a team game, and a team is only as good as its weakest link/ worst player. There's actually quite a lot of research on this... star players on their own might win the occasional match, but don't win teams cups or championships. I can't remember where the research is though! I think I've posted it before. 

[Nibor]

13 minutes ago, Woodsy said:

FWIW - this is what I was told, apologies if someone has already done this, but I can't be arsed to go thru it all after reading the first page and a half

LT signed a contract with a 'live in Bristol' stipulation, and did indeed get a place in the city
Off the field issues meant he wanted to be back in Leicester, with the wife (and kids?)

As GoN didn't have the stipulation and travelled every day (albeit with a driver that he paid for himself) LT took it upon himself to do exactly what he wanted

You can use this as a stick to beat LJ with, but as others have said, we've got best part of £3m for someone who was obviously not enjoying himself, not playing well, seemingly not socialising with his team mates. I know who's camp I'm in with this one

If that's true (and it's certainly feasible), the lesson the club have to take from it is that you can't just put different terms in contracts and expect that holding people in the same group to different standards will be ok.  It'll never work.  In future they need to make sure all players are within whatever driving distance is considered OK and put it in all contracts with no exceptions.  The same should apply for football staff too.

['Orns]

1 minute ago, Nibor said:

If that's true (and it's certainly feasible), the lesson the club have to take from it is that you can't just put different terms in contracts and expect that holding people in the same group to different standards will be ok.  It'll never work.  In future they need to make sure all players are within whatever driving distance is considered OK and put it in all contracts with no exceptions.  The same should apply for football staff too.

Bang on, Nibor

It does seem an odd way to go about things. Hopefully lessons learned

[BRISTOL86]

10 minutes ago, Nibor said:

If that's true (and it's certainly feasible), the lesson the club have to take from it is that you can't just put different terms in contracts and expect that holding people in the same group to different standards will be ok.  It'll never work.  In future they need to make sure all players are within whatever driving distance is considered OK and put it in all contracts with no exceptions.  The same should apply for football staff too.

So Tomlin had a clause in his contract which he knowingly ignored for his own benefit. And still people will use it as a sick to beat the club with!

[Nibor]

Just now, BRISTOL86 said:

So Tomlin had a clause in his contract which he knowingly ignored for his own benefit. And still people will use it as a sick to beat the club with!

What are you on about?  Far from beating anybody with a stick this is about getting it right in the future.  Giving people in the same group markedly different terms is a complete non starter, it will never work.  Why?  It's impossible to enforce the terms without causing resentment if you're not applying them to everyone.  If the club had forced LT to move down, it still wouldn't have made for a happy productive player would it?

 

[Northern Red]

5 minutes ago, Nibor said:

What are you on about?  Far from beating anybody with a stick this is about getting it right in the future.  Giving people in the same group markedly different terms is a complete non starter, it will never work.  Why?  It's impossible to enforce the terms without causing resentment if you're not applying them to everyone.  If the club had forced LT to move down, it still wouldn't have made for a happy productive player would it?

 

To be fair, I don't think he meant you. 

[Major Isewater]

5 minutes ago, Nibor said:

What are you on about?  Far from beating anybody with a stick this is about getting it right in the future.  Giving people in the same group markedly different terms is a complete non starter, it will never work.  Why?  It's impossible to enforce the terms without causing resentment if you're not applying them to everyone.  If the club had forced LT to move down, it still wouldn't have made for a happy productive player would it?

 

In times past players like this would just disappear off the radar until their contract was up and then they'd walk out leaving just an unpleasant smell and a hole in the club's accounts.

Full marks to Mark Ashton for , not  only resolving the situation but also getting a fee for him . 

[BRISTOL86]

20 minutes ago, Nibor said:

What are you on about?  Far from beating anybody with a stick this is about getting it right in the future.  Giving people in the same group markedly different terms is a complete non starter, it will never work.  Why?  It's impossible to enforce the terms without causing resentment if you're not applying them to everyone.  If the club had forced LT to move down, it still wouldn't have made for a happy productive player would it?

 

I wasn't referring to you. Just a general comment that people will still say the club ballsed up, whereas if this clause is true then the faults on Tomlin for not adhering to what he was contracted to do. 

As for different contracts - thats life in this industry. Don't sign a contract if it's got terms in it you don't like! I'm sure there's all sorts of bonus clauses in Tomlin's contract that weren't in (say) Bobby Reid's - that's life. 

But then when players hold 99% of the power that's what happens - contracts become not worth the paper they're written on. 

As for 'enforcing' the clause and being left with an unhappy/unproductively player - we seemingly pandered to him and he was still shite so I dread to think how bad things would be if he was unhappier!!