City Miss Out On Yet Another Youth Target, Woe Is Us.

[Nogbad the Bad]

City have apparently 'missed out' on 18 year old Exeter player midfielder Matt Grimes, now seemingly destined for a move to a PL club.

 

He's just made 36 apps. in his debut season in a very tough league.

 

Shame to miss out on him, you'd have thought Exeter assistant manager Rob Edwards might have tipped City an early wink.

 

Begs some questions of our 'highly rated' 21 year olds Bryan and Reid though - are City too reticent to give young players an extended run in the team, are our players for some reason not physically up to it, or are they simply, unfortunately, just fairly ordinary players who are over rated by club and fans alike?

[pongo88]

I'd go for the last point of your post;

"unfortunately, just fairly ordinary players who are over rated by club and fans alike?"

If they were really as good as made out they would have played and achieved more last season.

[steveybadger]

City have apparently 'missed out' on 18 year old Exeter player midfielder Matt Grimes, now seemingly destined for a move to a PL club.

 

He's just made 36 apps. in his debut season in a very tough league.

 

Shame to miss out on him, you'd have thought Exeter assistant manager Rob Edwards might have tipped City an early wink.

 

Begs some questions of our 'highly rated' 21 year olds Bryan and Reid though - are City too reticent to give young players an extended run in the team, are our players for some reason not physically up to it, or are they simply, unfortunately, just fairly ordinary players who are over rated by club and fans alike?

 

The other point is Exeter have no choice but give a run of games to players coming through their academy, particularly as they have had to cut their budget in the last 2 seasons. City have the cash to go and buy players who are usually better than their academy players.

[Monkeh]

City have apparently 'missed out' on 18 year old Exeter player midfielder Matt Grimes, now seemingly destined for a move to a PL club.

 

He's just made 36 apps. in his debut season in a very tough league.

 

Shame to miss out on him, you'd have thought Exeter assistant manager Rob Edwards might have tipped City an early wink.

 

Begs some questions of our 'highly rated' 21 year olds Bryan and Reid though - are City too reticent to give young players an extended run in the team, are our players for some reason not physically up to it, or are they simply, unfortunately, just fairly ordinary players who are over rated by club and fans alike?

answer to that is our youth aren't very good and very over-rated,

Artis, plummer, brown, Jackson, Riberio, Wilson, Brundle all examples of this,

Its starting to change but we still won't see the real difference for a season or two yet,

Bryan would of picked up more appearances but he had alot of injurys this season Ried was given the chance and his devlopment went backwards instead of forwards he was also hampered by niggling inurys

Burns we would of liked to see more of but who were we going to drop Baldock? Jet? or change the winning system just to fit him in?

[Kid in the Riot]

We were def interested in him. Tinnion went and saw him play.

Exeter have some real talent at under 18s and 21s.

Fair point about and younger players not getting a chance. Pack is what 22 and has 200 senior league appearances? Skuse was never close to that aged 22.

SOD was playing Reid and Bryan whenever he could. SC hasn't done that IMO however Reid and Bryan have been offered new deals which is encouraging.

[RedM]

It's the same old story though isn't it, most young players arent going to be interested in us if a Premiership team comes sniffing around. They will take him on and loan him out to a club like us,if we are lucky,and then after a season or 2 to a Championship club etc. He won't get a sniff of the first team but it stops their rivals taking him. If he makes it then great, if not he will be cast aside where there will be plenty of takers as he would be 'a Liverpool youngster'.

I guess young players like him are quickly spotted in teams like Exeter, he must stand out somewhat. Also teams like Exeter probably have small squads and so play him as there is no one else, he gets games and experience. We don't have to play our youngsters with such urgency, which of course is both a help and a hinderance to their development.

[Super]

We were def interested in him. Tinnion went and saw him play.

Exeter have some real talent at under 18s and 21s.

Fair point about and younger players not getting a chance. Pack is what 22 and has 200 senior league appearances? Skuse was never close to that aged 22.

SOD was playing Reid and Bryan whenever he could. SC hasn't done that IMO however Reid and Bryan have been offered new deals which is encouraging.

 

Mainly because Bryan was pretty average last season.

[Kid in the Riot]

Mainly because Bryan was pretty average last season.

Maybe. He bombed Reid out too dont forget. And I'm not buying his record on Burns which consists of bringing him on for 10 mins. His total game time must of consisted of no more than 2 games.

Still, we'll see next season.

Red M - Exeter have more than just Grimes their 18s drew with Man C this season.

[Monkeh]

Maybe. He bombed Reid out too dont forget. And I'm not buying his record on Burns which consists of bringing him on for 10 mins. His total game time must of consisted of no more than 2 games.

Still, we'll see next season.

Red M - Exeter have more than just Grimes their 18s drew with Man C this season.

yep and when he was bombed out and we brought an experanced creative midfielder in we started to actually win football matchs so I agree it was a stroke of genius to bob the under performing reid and avg bryan out

[RedM]

Is the 50 mile rule still in place for clubs to take youngsters from within that range, if so is Exeter attracting from Devon/Cornwall as there isn't much competition down there, only Plymouth and Torquay. Southampton must be about 100 miles away unless they have one of those satellite academy's picking up players?

[TBW]

This is mentioned in the Tommy Rowe article on the post website I think. Said we wanted him but through no fault of our own he won't end up here.

[screech]

Maybe. He bombed Reid out too dont forget. And I'm not buying his record on Burns which consists of bringing him on for 10 mins. His total game time must of consisted of no more than 2 games.

Still, we'll see next season.

Red M - Exeter have more than just Grimes their 18s drew with Man C this season.

 

Are you saying you would rather he had continued playing them even if they were obviously not to standard?

[Kid in the Riot]

yep and when he was bombed out and we brought an experanced creative midfielder in we started to actually win football matchs so I agree it was a stroke of genius to bob the under performing reid and avg bryan out

No, it's not "genius" at all monkeh. It's quick fix football management. Maybe appropriate given the situation we were in last season, but not going forward. We need to build a strong 21s and use the loan system well.

[CityFarAndWide]

Is the 50 mile rule still in place for clubs to take youngsters from within that range, if so is Exeter attracting from Devon/Cornwall as there isn't much competition down there, only Plymouth and Torquay. Southampton must be about 100 miles away unless they have one of those satellite academy's picking up players?

 

I believe it only applies to taking players on; not selling/losing players once they are on the teams books. 

[hortonred]

City have apparently 'missed out' on 18 year old Exeter player midfielder Matt Grimes, now seemingly destined for a move to a PL club.

 

He's just made 36 apps. in his debut season in a very tough league.

 

Shame to miss out on him, you'd have thought Exeter assistant manager Rob Edwards might have tipped City an early wink.

 

Begs some questions of our 'highly rated' 21 year olds Bryan and Reid though - are City too reticent to give young players an extended run in the team, are our players for some reason not physically up to it, or are they simply, unfortunately, just fairly ordinary players who are over rated by club and fans alike?

Same old story ast City.We miss out on good young players on our doorstep and we still do not produce enough quality from the Academy.I hope this is changing but no signs it has at the moment.

[Nogbad the Bad]

Reid and Bryan have been offered new deals which is encouraging.

 

Only encouraging, surely, if they truly deserve them, i.e. the club believe they'll be good enough to be regular first team players in the Championship by the time they come up for renewal again.

 

That's where Bristol City plan to be within a couple of years - or certainly should be.

 

Plus only if we're not going to go out out and sign younger players (like Grimes) who evidently have far more potential than them, because presumably Grimes would have been immediate direct competition for them, rather than one for the future.

 

If Reid and Bryan can't hold down a place in the 3rd division at almost 22, why should anyone feel they'll suddenly mature to be accomplished Championship players at 25?

[cityboy]

We need to build a strong 21s.

I agree with this.

But Reid isn't good enough quite frankly. Bryan needs to step it up too, and soon, or his future will lay elsewhere.

Wes I love watching play as he's exciting, but until he adds more to his game than his astonishing pace, he won't be any more than the impact sub SC is using him as.

[Super]

Certainly both Reid and Bryan need to improve next season. The age excuse for them is getting boring.

[Harry]

City have apparently 'missed out' on 18 year old Exeter player midfielder Matt Grimes, now seemingly destined for a move to a PL club.

 

He's just made 36 apps. in his debut season in a very tough league.

 

Shame to miss out on him, you'd have thought Exeter assistant manager Rob Edwards might have tipped City an early wink.

 

Begs some questions of our 'highly rated' 21 year olds Bryan and Reid though - are City too reticent to give young players an extended run in the team, are our players for some reason not physically up to it, or are they simply, unfortunately, just fairly ordinary players who are over rated by club and fans alike?

Hey Noggers.

Yes, this is one we have definitely missed out on.  Grimes is an excellent young player, sadly BCFC reacted too late!

 

I have regular contact with some people in Exeter and I know for a fact that Grimes has been watched 9 times by BCFC this season - the article in the paper the other day said that Burt had watched him personally, but to my knowledge, he has never been to see him on any of these 9 occasions, it's been Tinnion.  This was until the last time, when a couple of SC's own men finally went to take a look.

 

I know for a fact that BCFC were 'made aware' of Grimes in 2012, before he was anywhere near the first team at Exeter.  It's at that time that we should have been making a move for what was clearly a very talented lad.  We could have made a move in Jan 13 or in Summer 13 and might have got him for relative peanuts.  We might have got him for a decent fee in Jan 14, but now in Summer 14 it's all too late.

 

I've been told by my contacts at Exeter that our scouting team have been told for a long time to get this lad - he's been regularly watched by Everton who basically were baffled as to why we hadn't snapped him up yet - Quote "He's on your doorstep and you can get him for peanuts, why aren't you" (Everton are very keen on him but would have preferred to see him progress outside the Prem for a couple of seasons, whereas we should have just jumped on him straight away).

 

Shame this one.

[Monkeh]

Hey Noggers.

Yes, this is one we have definitely missed out on. Grimes is an excellent young player, sadly BCFC reacted too late!

I have regular contact with some people in Exeter and I know for a fact that Grimes has been watched 9 times by BCFC this season - the article in the paper the other day said that Burt had watched him personally, but to my knowledge, he has never been to see him on any of these 9 occasions, it's been Tinnion. This was until the last time, when a couple of SC's own men finally went to take a look.

I know for a fact that BCFC were 'made aware' of Grimes in 2012, before he was anywhere near the first team at Exeter. It's at that time that we should have been making a move for what was clearly a very talented lad. We could have made a move in Jan 13 or in Summer 13 and might have got him for relative peanuts. We might have got him for a decent fee in Jan 14, but now in Summer 14 it's all too late.

I've been told by my contacts at Exeter that our scouting team have been told for a long time to get this lad - he's been regularly watched by Everton who basically were baffled as to why we hadn't snapped him up yet - Quote "He's on your doorstep and you can get him for peanuts, why aren't you" (Everton are very keen on him but would have preferred to see him progress outside the Prem for a couple of seasons, whereas we should have just jumped on him straight away).

Shame this one.

Harry no good young English players goes for peanuts that's a fact

[Kid in the Riot]

Only encouraging, surely, if they truly deserve them, i.e. the club believe they'll be good enough to be regular first team players in the Championship by the time they come up for renewal again.

 

That's where Bristol City plan to be within a couple of years - or certainly should be.

 

Plus only if we're not going to go out out and sign younger players (like Grimes) who evidently have far more potential than them, because presumably Grimes would have been immediate direct competition for them, rather than one for the future.

 

If Reid and Bryan can't hold down a place in the 3rd division at almost 22, why should anyone feel they'll suddenly mature to be accomplished Championship players at 25?

 

It's perfectly reasonable to expect improvement between the ages of 22-25. It's not like either player, especially Reid, lack the natural ability to play at a decent level. To improve now they need games and we can only assume that SC has deemed them both good enough to play games and he sees two players that can improve.

 

Bryan has started 23 pro games and Bryan 31, still very green but I agree next season they need to kick on.

[ciderbeans]

So has he signed for anyone yet? In the world of sales, if a deal hasnt been signed, something can still be done. City should be putting their neck out and pulling all the stops to sway his mind over to us. Not just give up the first sign a prem club gets involved. We have a lot going for us atm youth wise in terms of development and are more likely to provide him with first team football should he be good enough.

It annoys me at how easily people give up on opportunities like this

[GrahamC]

We were def interested in him. Tinnion went and saw him play.

Exeter have some real talent at under 18s and 21s.

Fair point about and younger players not getting a chance. Pack is what 22 and has 200 senior league appearances? Skuse was never close to that aged 22.

SOD was playing Reid and Bryan whenever he could. SC hasn't done that IMO however Reid and Bryan have been offered new deals which is encouraging.

Pack is 23 and before this season had made 1 sub appearance above League Two level.

Skuse played nowhere near that number of games because we were a Championship club.

Grimes may well be a talent but overall League Two is piss poor and so no reflection on the relative careers of Skuse and Pack.

In fact I'll bet anyone Skuse will play more Championship football in his career than Pack.

[Kid in the Riot]

Pack is 23 and before this season had made 1 sub appearance above League Two level.

Skuse played nowhere near that number of games because we were a Championship club.

Grimes may well be a talent but overall League Two is piss poor and so no reflection on the relative careers of Skuse and Pack.

In fact I'll bet anyone Skuse will play more Championship football in his career than Pack.

 

Incorrect, Pack played L1 for Wycombe...

 

You've gone off on a tangent comparing the abilities of the players: that wasn't my point. It was that we should be giving first team opportunities to our young players and giving them a good run of games. If we want to develop the club then this has to happen. It seems as though people are already slipping back into the "I don't care who plays as long as we win games" mentality...fair enough if SC continues to sign players at his current average of 28 years old then my expectations will be revised accordingly.

 

Skuse would've been good enough for Cship football when we went up IMO but he was kept out the side by LJ if you recall...he was extremely pissed off about that, and his City career never really recovered from it I thought...

[spudski]

Perhaps it had something to do with what SC said in his Radio Bristol Interview?

 

'Potential signings


SC: We need to look for more experienced players, 30 years olds are alright so long as they are the right ones. We need to find players 25-28.

 

Bristol is a good city, younger players take advantage of the city nightlife and sometimes it doesn't benefit the club. Ideally a 25 year old married player with kids would be a good player.

 

We have enough youngsters here. They might struggle but at the end of the season they will have learned something and the tough ones will break there way in to the first team.

 

We wont be signing any 17/18/19 year olds from league 1/2 to come and play in our academy as its blocking our own players.'

[Harry]

Harry no good young English players goes for peanuts that's a fact

That may be a fact in your mind Monkeh, but the quote comes directly from a very highly respected scout, I think I'll take his word over yours mate, no offense intended!

[Harry]

Perhaps it had something to do with what SC said in his Radio Bristol Interview?

 

'Potential signings

SC: We need to look for more experienced players, 30 years olds are alright so long as they are the right ones. We need to find players 25-28.

 

Bristol is a good city, younger players take advantage of the city nightlife and sometimes it doesn't benefit the club. Ideally a 25 year old married player with kids would be a good player.

 

We have enough youngsters here. They might struggle but at the end of the season they will have learned something and the tough ones will break there way in to the first team.

 

We wont be signing any 17/18/19 year olds from league 1/2 to come and play in our academy as its blocking our own players.'

What an amazing set of quotes!!!

Setting some very narrow boundaries for potential signings.

Yes, 30 year olds are alright, as long as they're the right ones, but what you must do is not give them lengthy contracts on high wages.

25 - 28 year olds are good if they're married with kids??  What a strange comment?  Younger players get turned by the city nightlife?  Well, this is where man-management comes into it, how can the manager handle this.

We won't be signing any 17-19 year olds from League 1/2?  My word, how incredibly blinkered.  This is exactly the reason we'll miss out on Grimes, because we weren't willing to take a chance 2 years ago, 1 year ago, 6 months ago.

The club say they want to recruit "in the main" players under 25, with players over that age still being considered but only as necessary exceptions.  Now we have the manager saying he won't be signing anyone under 25 and single!

[Nogbad the Bad]

Perhaps it had something to do with what SC said in his Radio Bristol Interview?

 

We wont be signing any 17/18/19 year olds from league 1/2 to come and play in our academy as its blocking our own players.'

 

But despite his age Grimes presumably wouldn't have been signed for the Academy, he'd surely have gone straight into the matchday squad.

 

Why would he swap regular league football to join the academy of a club only one step up the league ladder?

 

He may be only 18/19 but he's got a season of regular league football under his belt - during which he apparently shone to the extent he's deemed more than ready to step up - so his advisers are either going to want him to continue playing first team football at a club like City, or make an unequivocally career enhancing move to one of the big boys.

 

You'd think any offer to join City's Academy would have received short shrift.

[Nogbad the Bad]

It's perfectly reasonable to expect improvement between the ages of 22-25. It's not like either player, especially Reid, lack the natural ability to play at a decent level. To improve now they need games and we can only assume that SC has deemed them both good enough to play games and he sees two players that can improve.

 

 

I agree improvement is quite possible, but it would need to be a big improvement.

 

Reid for instance is extremely inconsistent, something you can tolerate happily in an 18/19 year old, much less so at almost 22.

 

What we must avoid doing is giving contracts to local players, even when they're not really progressing, just so the club can point to them in and around the first team squad as proof the Academy 'is working'. No more James Wilson's.

 

Would City be looking to sign Bobby Reid if he were at another club? Don't think so for one minute, so I hope any new contract is short enough to keep him keen and comes along with clear indications of exactly what progress the club expects from him over the course of it.

 

Much the same goes for Joe Bryan of course, although I see alot more potential for fairly rapid imporovement in him.

[GrahamC]

I agree improvement is quite possible, but it would need to be a big improvement.

 

Reid for instance is extremely inconsistent, something you can tolerate happily in an 18/19 year old, much less so at almost 22.

 

What we must avoid doing is giving contracts to local players, even when they're not really progressing, just so the club can point to them in and around the first team squad as proof the Academy 'is working'. No more James Wilson's.

 

Would City be looking to sign Bobby Reid if he were at another club? Don't think so for one minute, so I hope any new contract is short enough to keep him keen and comes along with clear indications of exactly what progress the club expects from him over the course of it.

 

Much the same goes for Joe Bryan of course, although I see alot more potential for fairly rapid imporovement in him.

Couldn't agree more.

Some on here are questioning Cotterill's faith in youth, whereas I actually think he kept picking Reid last season simply because he was an academy product, rather than on form.

Both Bryan and Reid have big seasons ahead, whether they get games or not will depend on them, not on some posters' perception of SC's preferences.