Is defending a lost art ?

[Major Isewater]

Our defence is criticised for it's generosity  towards the opposition.

Throughout football clean sheets are rarer than Rocking horse droppings and Keepers are more prized for their ball playing skills than their ability to stop shots , has the art of defending died ?

We all love skillful flowing attacking play and goals but when there is little resistance from the opposition defence does that not devalue the game ?

We rarely see tackles these days as strikers go to ground when there is a defender within two yards of them. 

I would like to see a bit more balance in the modern game , what do you think ?

[gordie]

4 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

Our defence is criticised for it's generosity  towards the opposition.

Throughout football clean sheets are rarer than Rocking horse droppings and Keepers are more prized for their ball playing skills than their ability to stop shots , has the art of defending died ?

We all love skillful flowing attacking play and goals but when there is little resistance from the opposition defence does that not devalue the game ?

We rarely see tackles these days as strikers go to ground when there is a defender within two yards of them. 

I would like to see a bit more balance in the modern game , what do you think ?

Agreed watching a hard fair tackle can get the atmosphere going as much as a goal can at times, unfortunately it's getting rarer to see these tackles, I'm pretty sure Neymar would disagree though

[Lrrr]

Fergie's old saying - "Attack wins you games, defence wins you titles"

[cidered abroad]

Agree with Hodge.

Many years ago Man City won the First Division, scoring just over 100 goals but conceding about 95. That was a rarity even in the good old days and it is the teams that grind out results in midweek away games with rain, wind and even snow that get the prizes. And a team cannot do that if they cannot defend!

While that sometimes brings dull games, would we prefer to lose 4-5 every week or win 1-0? I know which I would prefer.

[BobBobSuperBob]

I do think members of our back four (And FF) have been to a large degree unfairly blamed for goals conceded 

People talk about defending but that should invpcluee all eleven players to varying degrees and roles

The game has changed and Defenders have less options available to them these days in stemming an attack and ‘defending’

I personally 5hink our back four and keeper have copped for a lot of stick when left unprotected

Think others shirking responsibilities and our tactical approach needs scrutiny and adjustment

I think criticising the individual members of that back four and simply replacing them is not quite the simple answer that some assume 

[Bar BS3]

27 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

Our defence is criticised for it's generosity  towards the opposition.

Throughout football clean sheets are rarer than Rocking horse droppings and Keepers are more prized for their ball playing skills than their ability to stop shots , has the art of defending died ?

We all love skillful flowing attacking play and goals but when there is little resistance from the opposition defence does that not devalue the game ?

We rarely see tackles these days as strikers go to ground when there is a defender within two yards of them. 

I would like to see a bit more balance in the modern game , what do you think ?

I don’t think defenders are really allowed to defend anymore. 

Everyone wants to see goals, so rules have changed, meaning it’s nigh on impossible to tackle, block, tussle these days. You get booked for a trip, as opposed to pretty much needing to punch someone, 20-30 years ago. 

You even get sent off for winning the ball now, if it’s deemed that it “could” have been dangerous!

No doubt defending has changed. I can’t imagine Glenn Humphries or Stuart Pearce surviving 90 mins of football very often these days. It’s a shame, because you can’t beat a good (fair) crunching challenge, but they’ve all but been outlawed now. Possibly part of the reason that goal scorers are so outrageously valued these days. Goals still win you games, but you often now need 2 or 3, or more to win many matches. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

It's hard to say.

The way in which defence has changed...big tackles are being (thanks to a mix of rule changes, pretty well pristine pitches and other factors) superseded by pressing, interceptions and screening IMO. Of course tackles still exist, but the game is heading one way at the minute. That said the last World Cup was more physical than I thought it might be at times, refs seemed to let a bit go but it wasn't consistent...

Anyway yeah, pressing, screening and interceptions are superseding tough tackling overall- won't be a rapid process but definitely heading that way.

In answer to the OP, it's evolving...it's more tough tackling that's the lost art IMO. Perhaps traditional defensive methods are the dying art.

[spudski]

It's more about keeping shape, using your body to usher the opposition away from the danger areas, and instead of tackling, trying to read the game and intercept the ball.

When you tackle someone it's often last ditch or means you are out of position.

A tackle is also often 50/50 ...you don't always control where the ball is going to end up...and can lead to a quick counter attack.

Seen it so many times, when a player jumps in, misses the tackle and leads to being under pressure and not in control...Josh is prone to this on occasion.

The game has moved on...it often makes me chuckle when you get the odd sliding tackle into touch and the crowd loving it ...

They'd laugh at it in other countries.

[WolfOfWestStreet]

Seeing as you can be promoted with a negative GD, defending definitely has lost some of its importance 

[Mr Popodopolous]

15 minutes ago, WolfOfWestStreet said:

Seeing as you can be promoted with a negative GD, defending definitely has lost some of its importance 

In a similar vein, 7th-20th in the PL last year?

Not one had a positive GD.

[CheddarReds]

Paolo Maldini said if he ever made a tackle he had made a mistake, and came out and said he doesn't understand the whole British tackling culture (similar to what @spudski was saying above).

The games just evolving and improving. While many love a crunching tackle, surely seeing a whole team press the opposition into an area so they can get the ball back from an interception, or forced clearance (for example) is a more advanced art form? 

 

[The Batman]

Some people see defensive football as boring nowadays.

Me, i have always been an advocate of a solid defensive unit in both football and rugby.

Even if it negates your attacking threat, you can manage the game accordingly by having a solid foundation to build off.

The Liverpool vs Chelsea match a few years ago (Gerrard's slip) was one of the best football matches i'd ever seen, i enjoyed every moment of it.

The sheer frustration of the Liverpool players not being able to complete their passes and shoot from distance was immensely satisfying, lord knows good it must have felt being associated with Chelsea that day. 

The modern game is very attack minded, changes to offside rules, tackling angles etc favour attackers.

Notably, a defender has not won the Ballon d'or since Cannovaro in 2006, before him, the last defender was Matthias Sammer back in 1996, before that Beckenbauer (if you can class him as a defender) in 1972. Granted we've had some wonderful attacking players over the years, but Ramos has never won it, Maldini never won it, Baresi never won it, Nesta never won it - probably never even came close.

 

[barneyrubble]

The current offside rule has made defending much more difficult as defenders have absolutely no idea whether an offside decision will be given.

Definitely would like to see if you are in the 18 yard box that if you are in an offside position then you are offside irrespective of being active or not .As Cloughie once said if your not interfering what our you doing on the pitch.

[Robbored]

19 minutes ago, spudski said:

The game has moved on...it often makes me chuckle when you get the odd sliding tackle into touch and the crowd loving it ...

They'd laugh at it in other countries.

The game particularly at the higher levels has become more sophisticated in almost every aspect, except possibly the knack of being in the right place at the right time in front of goal.

Defending these days is much more than simply being the job of the defensive line to keep the ball out of the net. As Spudski says it’s the job of the entire team and has become an established part of the game.

Pep is regarded as the first coach to develop and implement this, firstly at Barca, then Bayern and now Man City. If you get the chance to read about some of his methods (4-4-2 did an article aabout it a while back) you’ll appreciate just how forward thinking the guy is.

Until I read about it I didn’t appreciate that the winger v full back should never be allowed to happen - the outcome is too uncertain and that a full back should always have a teammate covering him making it far more tricky for  the winger to reach a dangerous position. It’s all very interesting stuff.....

[Erithacus]

I agree with a lot of the comments here, chiefly that the laws (and their interpretation) have changed as a result of the constant eye of the TV. Being replayed ad nauseam has caused some shift in the culture, and the players have responded to that, with a lot of diving and feeling that the challenge entitles them to fall over. Ha!

Modern players will have spent some time carefully studying the way the game works and have certainly altered their gameplans to accommodate the 'opportunities'. Savvy or cynical - you decide.

Tackling used to have some real value, even if there were some painful injuries as a result. A good cruncher on your team was an asset as good as a striker who knew where the goal was, or a keeper who pulled off great saves. Many teams were centred around some 'chopper' or 'hatchet man' who would destroy opponent's thrusts in no uncertain manner. We will surely recognise the role that the late Gerry Gow had here. It's somewhat stark to see that we don't have that kind today. Yes, the game moves on...

What annoys me these days are the techniques used to tackle: it seems many players are reluctant to commit (possibly due to the officials' application) and subsequently are less effective. But I see so many defenders tackling stood up and with their near leg, instead of going to ground (the classic sliding tackle, love it!) and rolling to use the far leg - a much more controlled and effective method, I will contend. I reckon this is partly down to the fact that many players psend much more time on synthetic/hard court surfaces and so have rather lost the knack. A slick grass pitch in a little light drizzle is perfect environment for enjoying a good slide. Another tackle that looks to have gone on the endangered species list is the block tackle. When was the last time you saw one (and didn't have everyone else jumping and screaming blue murder)?

[Cowshed]

3 hours ago, CheddarReds said:

Paolo Maldini said if he ever made a tackle he had made a mistake, and came out and said he doesn't understand the whole British tackling culture (similar to what @spudski was saying above).

The games just evolving and improving. While many love a crunching tackle, surely seeing a whole team press the opposition into an area so they can get the ball back from an interception, or forced clearance (for example) is a more advanced art form? 

 

It was simply a differing way of looking at defending. Defenders could look at challenging for nearly any ball regardless of whether they could win it or not. Intimidation and attempting to injure opponents were looked upon as acceptable for many - "Leave a mark on him and do it early!" 

Referees allowed you to have three or four free fouls, it was hard to get booked in the first ten minutes. 

Now its deny space, delay attack, dictate where the opponents move, provide depth, block passing lanes as a team. Its more cerebral and tackling is often the last resort.

The upside is it allows player to play and defenders have to learn to.

[Distortia]

Premier League total clean sheets, season to season:

2017/18 226

2016/17 214

2015/16 215

2013/14 224

2012/13 200

2011/12 220

2010/11 191

2009/10 221

2008/09 247

In the Premier League, last season saw the highest number of clean sheets (226) for 10 years. So I don't think defending is dying. I just think it's far more meticulous and subtle than before. The traditional hard-tackling defenders have less of a part in football now, and as @Cowshed alluded to, defending as an art has changed completely. It's probably less obvious to the average fan when a defender makes a great defensive move, though this isn't of course to suggest there is no time for hard slide tackles, which are still today prevalent and great to see.

On top of this, we are now seeing defenders going for extremely high fees. In the last few years Mangala, Mustafi, Thiago Silva, David Luiz etc. have all gone for over £30m and van Dijk for £75m(!). This suggests top level teams and managers are putting further emphasis on signing big-money, high-standard defenders. Look at Guardiola for example, who has completely reshaped the Man City back 5 with very expensive prices.