joe jordans teeth Posted September 12, 2018 Report Share Posted September 12, 2018 Is angling even a sport,in my eyes anything you can do sat down for hours without doing nothing is not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nogbad the Bad Posted September 12, 2018 Report Share Posted September 12, 2018 1 hour ago, steveybadger said: Football for women is much more popular than hockey and netball: https://www.sportengland.org/news-and-features/news/2016/december/8/record-numbers-of-women-getting-active/ I also think you're making the old mistake of comparing its popularity to the men's game. It might be less popular (although the numbers playing women's / girl's football would suggest that calling it 'minority' is debatable), but my daughter has only become interested in sport if it's women involved, which has encouraged her to take it up with all the benefits that entails. And here's a friendly suggestion; you can just ignore the coverage if you find it annoying, just like I do with coverage of ''sports'' like motor racing. Thanks. I can ignore the games, but the constant over hyped media coverage on both BBC Radio and TV is much harder to avoid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddoh Posted September 12, 2018 Report Share Posted September 12, 2018 42 minutes ago, joe jordans teeth said: Is angling even a sport,in my eyes anything you can do sat down for hours without doing nothing is not Think they called that work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted September 12, 2018 Report Share Posted September 12, 2018 2 hours ago, Eddie Hitler said: The most popular participant sport is angling. The whole debate around women's football, fuelled by its excessive coverage on the BBC, is not whether it is a popular sport for particpants but whether it is a popular sport for spectators. It isn't. Play it, enjoy it, great. But if it's not popular amongst spectators then it has no place in the national media. Using your raison d etre a whole host of sports played by females and by people with disabilities have no place on TV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe jordans teeth Posted September 13, 2018 Report Share Posted September 13, 2018 1 hour ago, Cowshed said: Using your raison d etre a whole host of sports played by females and by people with disabilities have no place on TV. He said bbc that we all fork out money for and they binned disability sports ages ago,wrongly in my eyes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Hitler Posted September 13, 2018 Report Share Posted September 13, 2018 7 hours ago, Cowshed said: Using your raison d etre a whole host of sports played by females and by people with disabilities have no place on TV. Absolutely. If a sport is not a popular spectator sport in the first place then it is only going to attract a tiny audience on TV so why should a broadcaster put it on other than in a general sports highlights round up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selred Posted September 13, 2018 Report Share Posted September 13, 2018 15 hours ago, Eddie Hitler said: being obsessed with forcing the minority sport of women's football upon us. I don't recall the last time men's hockey, or women's hockey for that matter, Football isn’t a minority sport though. I wouldn’t watch hockey because I don’t understand the rules, I know football though and I watch the england women’s games. Same as many really, women’s football get a lot more viewers than minority sports. Are the BBC forcing you to watch the games? No. Is showing women’s football increasing interest in the game, and subsequently getting more young girls playing it? Yes. Therefore I don’t understand why people get funny about this. I don’t see you kicking off at bargain hunt being shown, therefore it’s purely sexism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Hitler Posted September 13, 2018 Report Share Posted September 13, 2018 7 minutes ago, Selred said: Football isn’t a minority sport though. I wouldn’t watch hockey because I don’t understand the rules, I know football though and I watch the england women’s games. Same as many really, women’s football get a lot more viewers than minority sports. Are the BBC forcing you to watch the games? No. Is showing women’s football increasing interest in the game, and subsequently getting more young girls playing it? Yes. Therefore I don’t understand why people get funny about this. I don’t see you kicking off at bargain hunt being shown, therefore it’s purely sexism. It isn't "purely sexism" or if it is then it is sexism on the part of the broadcaster. Cycling, men's and women's, became popular a few years' ago because of British success and received a great deal of coverage. This is how it should work: a sport's popularity amongst spectators naturally generates increased media coverage. Women's football is not popular as a spectator sport, just look at the wide open spaces in the stands in the highlights clips, so why is the BBC in particular continuing to push it? I can only conclude that they are sexist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted September 13, 2018 Report Share Posted September 13, 2018 2 hours ago, Eddie Hitler said: Absolutely. If a sport is not a popular spectator sport in the first place then it is only going to attract a tiny audience on TV so why should a broadcaster put it on other than in a general sports highlights round up? Because all TV does not work that way thankfully. Should that also extended to TV based on race? 1 hour ago, Eddie Hitler said: It isn't "purely sexism" or if it is then it is sexism on the part of the broadcaster. Cycling, men's and women's, became popular a few years' ago because of British success and received a great deal of coverage. This is how it should work: a sport's popularity amongst spectators naturally generates increased media coverage. Women's football is not popular as a spectator sport, just look at the wide open spaces in the stands in the highlights clips, so why is the BBC in particular continuing to push it? I can only conclude that they are sexist. Women's football is successful. Its success and increasing popularity is attracting naturally increased media coverage. Many British cycling events are watched by few spectators, take away the flag ship events its far less of a spectator sport than Women's football. Therefore cycling should also be on your not for TV list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Dicks' Barmy Army Posted September 13, 2018 Report Share Posted September 13, 2018 14 minutes ago, Cowshed said: Because all TV does not work that way thankfully. Should that also extended to TV based on race? Women's football is successful. Its success and increasing popularity is attracting naturally increased media coverage. Compare the millions of pounds that the recent event in Bristol brought into the economy, no Womens side would get near that in commercial revenue Look at the crowds at womens games too, National League South sides have better attendances Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Hitler Posted September 13, 2018 Report Share Posted September 13, 2018 17 minutes ago, Cowshed said: Because all TV does not work that way thankfully. Should that also extended to TV based on race? Women's football is successful. Its success and increasing popularity is attracting naturally increased media coverage. Many British cycling events are watched by few spectators, take away the flag ship events its far less of a spectator sport than Women's football. Therefore cycling should also be on your not for TV list. I'm not arguing for cycling; I'm arguing for success. Women's football despite the massive investment from professional men's clubs and vastly disproportionate media coverage for years just isn't. You don't usually get to see their finances in isolation but one example was revealed when Notts County closed their women's team: Quote "Additionally, I was extremely concerned that to operate Notts County Ladies for the current season was going to cost us approximately £500,000 - a figure principally made up of player and coaching salaries. "Our total projected incoming revenue from attendances and sponsorship was £28,000. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2017/04/21/notts-county-ladies-fold-days-start-spring-series/ It is not a credible professional sport however much people with vested interests wish that it was. An ex colleague's two children were (and I presume still are) superb BMX riders, county or even national standard. He, as everyone with an active interest in a particular sport, wants it to be on national TV, the riders to be paid, great facilities to be built, professional coaches training the best etc. etc. It hasn't happened and probably won't ever happen; but women's football gets all of this despite its very low attendances, below the semi-pro Southern National Leage as Mr Dicks notes. Why would this be the case if not sexism? It is getting all of this vastly disproportionate coverage and money purely because it is women playing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted September 13, 2018 Report Share Posted September 13, 2018 7 minutes ago, Alan Dicks' Barmy Army said: Compare the millions of pounds that the recent event in Bristol brought into the economy, no Womens side would get near that in commercial revenue Look at the crowds at womens games too, National League South sides have better attendances That is not the being made. It is about the validity of women's sport on TV. Based on the posters reasoning almost no sport would be on TV. There are womens teams who get gate figures above National league south. But why does women sport have to be measured v mens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Hitler Posted September 13, 2018 Report Share Posted September 13, 2018 8 minutes ago, Cowshed said: That is not the being made. It is about the validity of women's sport FOOTBALL on TV. Based on the posters reasoning almost no sport would be on TV. There are womens teams who get gate figures above National league south. But why does women sport have to be measured v mens. I have no issue with women's tennis on the TV and actually prefer it to the men's game. Women's athletics on the TV - great. These both draw huge crowds and TV audiences. I have zero issue with any women's sport and like that women play it. I like that there are a lot of women playing football. I however dislike the BBC's and other media's pushing of this one particular sport above all the others that are far more popular as spectator sports; and in particular the deliberate conflation of it with the vastly more successful men's game. Exhibit A: Quote Channel 4Verified account @Channel4 Just to clear up a few incorrect reports/articles this morning. Last night wasn’t the first time England have been in a World Cup Semi-Final since 1990. The last time was 2015. https://twitter.com/Channel4/status/1017297049572737029 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted September 13, 2018 Report Share Posted September 13, 2018 5 minutes ago, Eddie Hitler said: I'm not arguing for cycling; I'm arguing for success. Women's football despite the massive investment from professional men's clubs and vastly disproportionate media coverage for years just isn't. You don't usually get to see their finances in isolation but one example was revealed when Notts County closed their women's team: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2017/04/21/notts-county-ladies-fold-days-start-spring-series/ It is not a credible professional sport however much people with vested interests wish that it was. An ex colleague's two children were (and I presume still are) superb BMX riders, county or even national standard. He, as everyone with an active interest in a particular sport, wants it to be on national TV, the riders to be paid, great facilities to be built, professional coaches training the best etc. etc. It hasn't happened and probably won't ever happen; but women's football gets all of this despite its very low attendances, below the semi-pro Southern National Leage as Mr Dicks notes. Why would this be the case if not sexism? It is getting all of this vastly disproportionate coverage and money purely because it is women playing it. You are swerving the points about disability, gender and race. Women's football is a success. The England team clearly are a success. Any open minded person can see that interest in Women's football is increasing along with participation levels. That is success. Your point about BMX is uneven. You should be telling your ex colleagues two children no BMX on TV till fifty thousand turn up to watch it … Women's football gets all of this despite its very low attendances, below the semi-pro Southern National League as Mr Dicks notes … Its incorrect but that again would mean in your view virtually no sport should appear on TV. Sexism? Yes you are displaying it. Women's football does not get a disproportionate coverage unless you are arguing its on TV for more hours than the Male game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballwinningcentrehalf Posted September 13, 2018 Report Share Posted September 13, 2018 Some of the hostility towards women’s football is... strange. The vast majority of us dreamed of being pros as children, and we all missed out for a hundred different reasons - too fat, too thin, too big, too small, too injured, too slow, mostly just too crap. At least the dream was there. And at least we could go and play for one of a thousand local sides to get our kicks (pun intended). Now imagine growing up and being told that the main factor against you is that you are ‘too female’. That you can go and play and compete with your friends like anyone else, but reach a certain age and you are cut off, all of a sudden left in the wilderness searching for an all-female team to play for. And after that, no matter how much you love it, or how decent you are, there is no real league structure and no hope of progressing. Thank god the authorities have seen sense at last and are pushing the game. That now young girls can grow up watching their favourite Male players, but also see women playing the game they love on tv, in world cups, for big teams like Liverpool, Man City and Man Utd. Womens football is still in its infancy, and hopefully will continue to improve through generations. Will it ever be as good as the Male game? I doubt it. But I don’t think the two should be compared directly. Some of the dinosaurs in here don’t want to see anything about the game until the standard is ‘good enough’ for them, but how can the game hope to improve if it doesn’t get exposure and investment right now? And you know what, we have FA execs earning millions a year, players earning more in a year than I’ll earn in a lifetime, players being transferred for hundreds of millions and TV companies bleeding us dry - I think if you want to look at the money issues in football we should concentrate on that rather than a few hundred thousand going from the coffers to clubs each year so that an entire gender has a chance at living their dream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted September 13, 2018 Report Share Posted September 13, 2018 1 minute ago, Eddie Hitler said: I have no issue with women's tennis on the TV and actually prefer it to the men's game. Women's athletics on the TV - great. These both draw huge crowds and TV audiences. I have zero issue with any women's sport and like that women play it. I like that there are a lot of women playing football. I however dislike the BBC's and other media's pushing of this one particular sport above all the others that are far more popular as spectator sports; and in particular the deliberate conflation of it with the vastly more successful men's game. Exhibit A: https://twitter.com/Channel4/status/1017297049572737029 Your points are getting ever more convoluted. You are referring to flag ship events the Olympics, Wimbledon … Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Hitler Posted September 13, 2018 Report Share Posted September 13, 2018 6 minutes ago, Cowshed said: You are swerving the points about disability, gender and race. Women's football is a success. The England team clearly are a success. Any open minded person can see that interest in Women's football is increasing along with participation levels. That is success. Your point about BMX is uneven. You should be telling your ex colleagues two children no BMX on TV till fifty thousand turn up to watch it … Women's football gets all of this despite its very low attendances, below the semi-pro Southern National League as Mr Dicks notes … Its incorrect but that again would mean in your view virtually no sport should appear on TV. Sexism? Yes you are displaying it. Women's football does not get a disproportionate coverage unless you are arguing its on TV for more hours than the Male game. I'm not swerving any points. You have selected women's football out of all women's sport as a special case on the apparent basis that "it just is" so it therefore should be widely reported upon, shown live on the telly, the players should be paid more and so on. It has had money and been the media's darling sport for years and it has got nowhere. And I don't buy this "in its infancy" sport that will grow. It's already failed once after the big push of the pro clubs and media 2000-05; this is round two which started in 2011 and there will be a third, fourth, fifth. Bristol women's team was founded by the Rovers in 1998, dumped by the Rovers in 2006, and nearly went out of business in 2007 and 2009 before Bristol Sport rescued them in 2013. It's unviable. I don't mind how our billionaire owner chooses how to spend his money but let's not pretend that because it is now run in a professional way that it is doing anything other than losing money as per Notts County's team referenced above. I have zero interest in BMX; but his arguments for it were exactly the same as your arguments. It should get all of this special treatment just because. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trueredsupporter Posted September 13, 2018 Report Share Posted September 13, 2018 13 hours ago, Eddie Hitler said: The most popular participant sport is angling. The whole debate around women's football, fuelled by its excessive coverage on the BBC, How many hours is womens football on the BBC a week? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Hitler Posted September 13, 2018 Report Share Posted September 13, 2018 1 minute ago, Trueredsupporte said: How many hours is womens football on the BBC a week? Seventeen. Or what seemed like 168 during the summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted September 13, 2018 Report Share Posted September 13, 2018 13 minutes ago, Eddie Hitler said: I'm not swerving any points. You have selected women's football out of all women's sport as a special case on the apparent basis that "it just is" You have. I have simply used facts to justify Women's football being on TV. It is now the largest Women's sport. Women's sport versus Male sport does not have high attendances. That should not be a reason to exclude it, or reduce its visibility. Female sport being on TV is healthy. Lucy Bronzes on TV to inspire females to play football is a fine thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Hitler Posted September 13, 2018 Report Share Posted September 13, 2018 2 minutes ago, Cowshed said: You have. I have simply used facts to justify Women's football being on TV. It is now the largest Women's sport. Women's sport versus Male sport does not have high attendances. That should not be a reason to exclude it, or reduce its visibility. Female sport being on TV is healthy. Lucy Bronzes on TV to inspire females to play football is a fine thing. You are confusing particpation with spectating yet again. It is anyway second after swimming (2.5m) at 1.8m. https://www.sportengland.org/apsresults/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted September 13, 2018 Report Share Posted September 13, 2018 13 minutes ago, Cowshed said: You have. I have simply used facts to justify Women's football being on TV. It is now the largest Women's sport. Women's sport versus Male sport does not have high attendances. That should not be a reason to exclude it, or reduce its visibility. Female sport being on TV is healthy. Lucy Bronzes on TV to inspire females to play football is a fine thing. The tv companies don’t take much interest in women’s football is largely down to the amount of fans who actually watch it. The BBC cover Internationals but that’s largely it. Untill Sky/BT start bidding for the women’s football rights it’ll always be a poor relation. It simply doesn’t get the exposure. I couldn’t name one currant England woman’s footballer and to me that says everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Hitler Posted September 13, 2018 Report Share Posted September 13, 2018 1 minute ago, Robbored said: The tv companies don’t take much interest in women’s football is largely down to the amount of fans who actually watch it. The BBC cover Internationals but that’s largely it. Untill Sky/BT start bidding for the women’s football rights it’ll always be a poor relation. It simply doesn’t get the exposure. I couldn’t name one currant England woman’s footballer and to me that says everything. I can, well I can now anyway: Lucy Bronzes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted September 13, 2018 Report Share Posted September 13, 2018 19 hours ago, pillred said: It's no coincidence though in women's sport the richest are quite often the most attractive. You're saying you're attracted to money ? you little tart you . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearded_red Posted September 13, 2018 Report Share Posted September 13, 2018 Incredible really, Adam Gilchrist (and while it may not be a universally held view he is far from alone in thinking it) states that Sarah Taylor’s work up to the stumps makes her the best in the world (I happen to agree with him, but fair enough if you don’t), but nah he’s wrong because OTIB doubts her ability to stand back to 90mph bowling. As it happens, and I can say this from a reasonable amount of experience, the skill required up to the stumps far exceeds anything standing back, however quick, and she would be absolutely fine. Some of her stumpings off of Shrubsole and Brunt, of course nothing more than medium pace by male terms, almost defy belief. As does her ridiculous one handed catch against Australia a few years ago. For context, by all accounts England are contemplating taking Ben Foakes to Sri Lanka as he is a better gloveman than either Bairstow or Buttler and they feel that would be an advantage in Sri Lanka as you will spend the majority of your time standing up to spinners. Edit- Not sure this has particular place on a football forum, so apologies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Fox Posted September 13, 2018 Report Share Posted September 13, 2018 20 hours ago, Eddie Hitler said: I know that's a humorous comment but I think that there is one simple reason why the goalkeeping in the women's game is so poor: the size of the goal frame has been established for male keepers with their increased height and width. The main England goalkeeper with 73 caps is 5'11" Karen Bardsley https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karen_Bardsley The other two in the squad are 5'9" and 5'7". Joe Hart is 6'5". Jordan Pickford is regarded as being short for a keeper at 6'1". It seems crashingly obvious that the goal frame should be smaller in the women's game. Two inches makes all the difference.......................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILINFRANCE Posted September 13, 2018 Report Share Posted September 13, 2018 4 hours ago, Eddie Hitler said: It isn't "purely sexism" or if it is then it is sexism on the part of the broadcaster. Cycling, men's and women's, became popular a few years' ago because of British success and received a great deal of coverage. This is how it should work: a sport's popularity amongst spectators naturally generates increased media coverage. Women's football is not popular as a spectator sport, just look at the wide open spaces in the stands in the highlights clips, so why is the BBC in particular continuing to push it? I can only conclude that they are sexist. Precisely. How many on here had watched (or even heard of) Curling, let alone Women's Curling, prior to the last two Olympics. I don't mind admitting that I was hooked by both male and female versions, but this was due undoubtedly to the fact that both British teams were successful*, i.e. without their success, I doubt either version would have been broadcast. As you say, one thing leads to another and, were the teams not successful they would not have received the media coverage they did and would have remained unheard of, certainly south of the border. * There is also something about blond hair and piercing blue eyes.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trueredsupporter Posted September 13, 2018 Report Share Posted September 13, 2018 2 hours ago, Eddie Hitler said: Seventeen. Or what seemed like 168 during the summer. What channels and where do you get you get your figures from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trueredsupporter Posted September 13, 2018 Report Share Posted September 13, 2018 On 11/09/2018 at 11:24, Nogbad the Bad said: You don't have to wait long then - I agree. I don't mind whether women's football gets bigger or not. Girls who want to play at school should be allowed to, of course, but I suspect those will always be in a minority and the vast majority will prefer to continue to enjoy playing hockey and netball etc. like they always have. Either way, I find the excessive media coverage of a minority sport like women's football extremely annoying. Isnt football the biggest sport for women and girls now? one big minority that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted September 13, 2018 Report Share Posted September 13, 2018 Men getting annoyed about women doing stuff alert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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