fao Julie H

[phantom]

21 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

@phantom with that gate open they would have to still go through turnstiles wouldn't they? 

The picture makes me think that perhaps the Constabulary knew the escort was going to be late and opened extra gates and turnstiles so as not to get pressure outside. But who knows!. I'm sure that will all come out!!. The slowness of the escort seems to be the key issue from where I'm sitting!

Yeah, it is the divide between home and away fans, and outside the ground

Away fans in the past could only enter their turnstiles from the other end of the ground, the walk up to the Dolman entrances (nearside in the picture) is for home supporters only.

I don't think I have seen this gate opened since home fans were in the Atyeo stand many years ago, it is the one barrier between supporters near the ground

[richwwtk]

1 hour ago, REDOXO said:

Well that may be your view, however if 50-200 people run in a certain direction which is in fact only a few feet away its pretty certain they are up for it. The thought you do not react in strength to defend yourself and the those (Women Kids Old Men etc) around you is absurd

The fact is nothing would have happened if the charge had not happened and trying to argue otherwise is futile.

Mass Chanting and Posturing are part of Football, those who go away will tell you that...Charging is not and is a provocation and is 100% meant to be (I have been charged personally at WHU, Chelsea, Aldershot, Newport, Arsenal and a dozen other grounds, at no time did I ever think I or my father would not get hit if they got hold of us) the over excited fools that started the issue and raised Saturday's game to an 11 page thread came from Swansea!

Absolute rubbish. I have been in plenty of grounds over the years with charging going on (or running as it is sometimes called) and, whilst it can be intimidating for the people involved, I have never felt the need to charge back and start hitting people.

If City fans had stuck to responding with more chanting and posturing nobody would have tried to get past the stewards and cross the divide, it would have remained a highly charged and exciting atmosphere. As it was, the only people crossing the line into violence inside Ashton Gate were City fans I am ashamed to say. There was not an ounce of defending women, kids and old men about it, nobody needed physically defending - it was ignorant bravado through and through.

[Alan Dicks' Barmy Army]

34 minutes ago, richwwtk said:

Absolute rubbish. I have been in plenty of grounds over the years with charging going on (or running as it is sometimes called) and, whilst it can be intimidating for the people involved, I have never felt the need to charge back and start hitting people.

There was not an ounce of defending women, kids and old men about it, nobody needed physically defending

So what did you do when people charged at you @richwwtk?

Clearly you were not close to this area on Saturday from where I was stood it was very clear to see some people WERE stepping in front of women and teenagers to protect them from coins etc coming over from the Welsh

[REDOXO]

33 minutes ago, richwwtk said:

Absolute rubbish. I have been in plenty of grounds over the years with charging going on (or running as it is sometimes called) and, whilst it can be intimidating for the people involved, I have never felt the need to charge back and start hitting people.

If City fans had stuck to responding with more chanting and posturing nobody would have tried to get past the stewards and cross the divide, it would have remained a highly charged and exciting atmosphere. As it was, the only people crossing the line into violence inside Ashton Gate were City fans I am ashamed to say. There was not an ounce of defending women, kids and old men about it, nobody needed physically defending - it was ignorant bravado through and through.

Yes well we will have to agree on you talk Absolute Rubbish! If a group of people run at you you stand up or run. If you don't people get hurt. Maybe even you!  

Perhaps you should Go on The Swansea forum and blame them for what happened and why they did what they did and stop blaming those who reacted to it....! Have You?

[Mr Popodopolous]

Fight or flight- there's only 2 realistic reactions to imminent risk tbh. Basic psychology.

[richwwtk]

19 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

Yes well we will have to agree on you talk Absolute Rubbish! If a group of people run at you you stand up or run. If you don't people get hurt. Maybe even you!  

Perhaps you should Go on The Swansea forum and blame them for what happened and why they did what they did and stop blaming those who reacted to it....! Have You?

Nothing wrong with standing up at all, even the people running down to the corner to join in is OK if that's your thing and you're not hurting anyone, the people I take issue with are the ones that went onto the pitch to bypass the stewards and ran into the Swansea fans throwing punches. There is no defence that can be made for them at all.

I have no intention of blaming the Swansea fans, they were playing the game (that any football fan should be aware of and ready to react to in an appropriate way) and never looked likely to physically attack the City fans. Appropriate does not include violence.

[REDOXO]

1 minute ago, richwwtk said:

Nothing wrong with standing up at all, the people I take issue with are the ones that went onto the pitch to bypass the stewards and ran into the Swansea fans throwing punches. There is no defence that can be made for them at all.

I have no intention of blaming the Swansea fans, they were playing the game (that any football fan should be aware of and ready to react to in an appropriate way) and never looked likely to physically attack the City fans. Appropriate does not include violence.

Ok. Lets look a this another way. Julie has already told us they were late and some of the reasons for it. You think that some were not hell bent on trouble, as I am sure the report will go into the reasons they were late, which I am sure Julie is still writing bless her.

No one should go on the pitch I agree, however again no one would of if Swansea supporters that were mostly late had not have ran toward the City supporters...In The Dolman stand for the love of god...Its full of kids, women and old men many of which post here.

Swansea playing a game REALLY! T. So its not the fault of the attacker (charger) that's a game, its the fault of the victim for reacting...!

 

 

[Tin Soldier]

21 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

It's happened and it's bad. We'll have to take it on the chin.

What is now VERY important is that lessons are learnt and are learnt quickly for five reasons.

1) Wolves at home 17th February (though it could be Shrewsbury still which solves a problem). Unless there are pressing reasons, don't away sides get 15% of allocation in FA Cup which is about 4k away fans...challenging!

2) Birmingham at home on 26th Feb is it. Now they certainly aren't the worst and it's a Tuesday isn't it? That'll help.

However if in a playoff push still, they'll bring a decent following, but if they've been docked 12-15 pts over FFP they maybe in quite volatile mood?

3) Leeds at home. 3pm kickoff, will fill whatever allocation they get. Both teams riding quite high but SL's call for a points deduction in the mind.

4) WBA at home on a Tuesday night in April I believe it is. Now not a lot wrong with WBA fans but they'll bring a big following- that alone should have people on alert.

5) Derby at home final home game of the season, penultimate game for both. Shaping up to be a major game in the playoff race, 3pm kickoff isn't it- Derby surely bring a big away allocation for that. 

Therefore for varying reasons, club and police will need to be across each of these games. Need to put proper plans into place etc.

 

 

 

Bring it on!

If they come looking for it, they will ave it! Bristol City fans in the Dolman won’t fear any of that lot!  Swansea came and gave it the big un, expecting the City lot to just sit there and take it. Don’t think so,.

[JulieH]

7 hours ago, phantom said:

Honestly not sure - any idea why @JulieH ?

No, I can ask the question of the club and get back to you when I can if that is ok? 

[JulieH]

13 hours ago, TETBURY MASSIVE said:

So are you saying that @JulieH may not be completely be telling the truth on here?? I'm shocked at such a statement....... 

Thank you. 

[Gakoe]

10 hours ago, Maesknoll Red said:

Paid handsomely you wouldn’t catch me doing their job for the money they earn, it’s far from handsome.

Ok it starts crap but rises quite quickly to around 40 grand I think, for a 40 hour week! Paid sick leave and early retirements with an excellent pension. I’d say that was pretty handsome.

[reddoh]

12 minutes ago, Gakoe said:

Ok it starts crap but rises quite quickly to around 40 grand I think, for a 40 hour week! Paid sick leave and early retirements with an excellent pension. I’d say that was pretty handsome.

there are many jobs that are the same and you can retire on tax payers money but I think that you have to respect most if not all of Police ,Firemen , Nurses and ambulance drivers , the armed forces .

[Gakoe]

5 minutes ago, reddoh said:

there are many jobs that are the same and you can retire on tax payers money but I think that you have to respect most if not all of Police ,Firemen , Nurses and ambulance drivers , the armed forces .

I’ve never had a nurse or fireman swing a stick at me or let his dog bit me though! .

Seriously though I think we’re getting away from the original point here. Just to be clear, I have total respect for the emergency services and our armed forces. 

[reddoh]

1 minute ago, Gakoe said:

I’ve never had a nurse or fireman swing a stick at me or let his dog bit me though! .

Seriously though I think we’re getting away from the original point here. Just to be clear, I have total respect for the emergency services and our armed forces. 

Unless my memory is really bad I am sure I haven't bitten you either but you have got me thinking of nurses you can have the fireman. let's let the thread get back on track.

[Maesknoll Red]

39 minutes ago, Gakoe said:

Ok it starts crap but rises quite quickly to around 40 grand I think, for a 40 hour week! Paid sick leave and early retirements with an excellent pension. I’d say that was pretty handsome.

https://www.polfed.org/ranks/3277.aspx

40 hour week, but that’s 24/7 shifts, you can have your leave cancelled, you have to deal with the lowest of the low and psychotic lunatics, see much misery and mayhem and have to keep your nose clean or lose that pension....  it’s not so appealing, I know cleaners who earn more.

Anyway, back on topic, if the Swansea late arrivals were let in a gate as is suggested, it’s madness, it’s like lessons aren’t learned. Although, what does happen in many walks of life, is that when there is a major and tragic incident, there are many lessons learnt,  policies and procedures put as a consequence, but as these work, the old hands who were involved move on and retire, the new blood behind doesn’t have the harsh reality of the memories and then start to take risks again, as there hasn’t been anymore instances and some of the procedures seem a bit OTT or stifling, so they start to get, if not watered down, just have some corners cut.

[Gakoe]

1 hour ago, Maesknoll Red said:

https://www.polfed.org/ranks/3277.aspx

40 hour week, but that’s 24/7 shifts, you can have your leave cancelled, you have to deal with the lowest of the low and psychotic lunatics, see much misery and mayhem and have to keep your nose clean or lose that pension....  it’s not so appealing, I know cleaners who earn more.

Quote

And that was just on Saturdays escort!

Anyway, back on topic, if the Swansea late arrivals were let in a gate as is suggested, it’s madness, it’s like lessons aren’t learned. Although, what does happen in many walks of life, is that when there is a major and tragic incident, there are many lessons learnt,  policies and procedures put as a consequence, but as these work, the old hands who were involved move on and retire, the new blood behind doesn’t have the harsh reality of the memories and then start to take risks again, as there hasn’t been anymore instances and some of the procedures seem a bit OTT or stifling, so they start to get, if not watered down, just have some corners cut.

You make a good point about procedures being watered down or corners being cut. My wife works in social services and this is a subject she mentions quite often.

I remember when we went to Hillsborough, probably early 2000’s? Loads of city there. We were ushered into the packed away end, no seats available, in that section anyway and spent the game sat on the steps. At the time we were asking “have they learnt nothing”. Does anyone else remember that?

[reddoh]

1 hour ago, Maesknoll Red said:

https://www.polfed.org/ranks/3277.aspx

40 hour week, but that’s 24/7 shifts, you can have your leave cancelled, you have to deal with the lowest of the low and psychotic lunatics, see much misery and mayhem and have to keep your nose clean or lose that pension....  it’s not so appealing, I know cleaners who earn more.

Anyway, back on topic, if the Swansea late arrivals were let in a gate as is suggested, it’s madness, it’s like lessons aren’t learned. Although, what does happen in many walks of life, is that when there is a major and tragic incident, there are many lessons learnt,  policies and procedures put as a consequence, but as these work, the old hands who were involved move on and retire, the new blood behind doesn’t have the harsh reality of the memories and then start to take risks again, as there hasn’t been anymore instances and some of the procedures seem a bit OTT or stifling, so they start to get, if not watered down, just have some corners cut.

Another Johnson thread, leave it out and get on with life.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Maesknoll Red said:

https://www.polfed.org/ranks/3277.aspx

40 hour week, but that’s 24/7 shifts, you can have your leave cancelled, you have to deal with the lowest of the low and psychotic lunatics, see much misery and mayhem and have to keep your nose clean or lose that pension....  it’s not so appealing, I know cleaners who earn more.

Anyway, back on topic, if the Swansea late arrivals were let in a gate as is suggested, it’s madness, it’s like lessons aren’t learned. Although, what does happen in many walks of life, is that when there is a major and tragic incident, there are many lessons learnt,  policies and procedures put as a consequence, but as these work, the old hands who were involved move on and retire, the new blood behind doesn’t have the harsh reality of the memories and then start to take risks again, as there hasn’t been anymore instances and some of the procedures seem a bit OTT or stifling, so they start to get, if not watered down, just have some corners cut.

I think it's less than that. People seem to expect police to govern everything like they are Batman watching over Gotham City.

The reality is the police are first line RESPONSE first and foremost. It's very easy to engage in criminality; for example I was speeding today, police have Intel I'm probably going to do 90mph on the M5 outside line, but how can they be everywhere at once. Crime is often opportunistic and there are ALWAYS opportunities, for hooliganism, for petty crime or serious crime.

Sometimes the police don't cover themselves in glory and there are lessons to be learned, but they are human and like humans lessons often need to be re-learned and re-learned. We can't hold them to standards we don't hold ourselves to. That's not complacency, it's bog standard human fallacy.

Sometimes an officer will cross a line, sometimes not held to account like some would wish, have some human compassion and appreciate they often are in a highly charged situation and the best willed would often make the wrong decision- fight or flight mentioned above as a basic instinct, yet an officer is not allowed to display basic human instincts and in the heat of the moment to make the wrong call without losing their badge, their career and becoming a tax payer burden just to please a minority who will never have respect for those in uniform (Not aimed at you @Maesknoll Red with that closing comment) 

[myol'man]

9 hours ago, Maesknoll Red said:

 

Anyway, back on topic, if the Swansea late arrivals were let in a gate as is suggested, it’s madness, it’s like lessons aren’t learned. 

They weren't let in through a gate, the gate in question allows access from the area outside of the Dolman turnstiles into the area OUTSIDE of the Atyeo turnstiles. They still had to have a ticket to gain entry.

[BTRFTG]

7 hours ago, 29AR said:

People seem to expect police to govern everything like they are Batman watching over Gotham City.

In my case I expect them to do the job for which they're empowered, trained and well rewarded, not act like comic-book goons. This week alone I've had 3 interactions with utter, thuggish jobsworths in uniform.

En route to my car, Saturday, when crossing the park a Daft Punk lookalike ran up to me, stuck his visor in my face and welding baton high screamed at me: "Where are you going?"

"My car, not it's any of your business."

"You can't."

"I can and I intend to."

"You need to find another entrance ( I think he meant exit and I didn't embarrass him by pointing out all routes would, eventually, lead back to where I was headed.)"

"Under what authority are you preventing me from going about my lawful business?"

No sound but lips moving as he was doubtless trying to recall the course he failed months ago. I twice repeated the question.

"Breach of the peace."

"What leads you to believe I am or have intent to cause a breach of the peace, you, obstructing my path in an aggressive manner and posturing an offensive weapon?"

He stood his ground for a few seconds then ran off to threaten and possibly lamp some other (for I believe that was his intent.)

The point of this - he clearly wasn't acting to protect me or other's best interest, had he done so he would have explained what he was doing and why (transpires this may have been to prevent me witnessing another of his mounted and thuggish colleagues using excessive force in beating the hell out of what appeared troublesome types pinned against a fence who, it seemed, were simply trying to get away from his violence.) It also demonstrated that he was Ill-equipped to handle such situations, he should at least have known under what authority he is empowered to act and who he is designated to protect and serve? His actions were not co-ordinated, police randomly running throughout the park accosting people, some with good reason, others without. Warhammer it wasn't.

That's comic-book.

 

 

[TETBURY MASSIVE]

11 hours ago, JulieH said:

Thank you. 

Sounds like you just admitted you don't always tell the truth on here...... thank you for clarifying.

[Natchfever]

25 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

In my case I expect them to do the job for which they're empowered, trained and well rewarded, not act like comic-book goons. This week alone I've had 3 interactions with utter, thuggish jobsworths in uniform.

En route to my car, Saturday, when crossing the park a Daft Punk lookalike ran up to me, stuck his visor in my face and welding baton high screamed at me: "Where are you going?"

"My car, not it's any of your business."

"You can't."

"I can and I intend to."

"You need to find another entrance ( I think he meant exit and I didn't embarrass him by pointing out all routes would, eventually, lead back to where I was headed.)"

"Under what authority are you preventing me from going about my lawful business?"

No sound but lips moving as he was doubtless trying to recall the course he failed months ago. I twice repeated the question.

"Breach of the peace."

"What leads you to believe I am or have intent to cause a breach of the peace, you, obstructing my path in an aggressive manner and posturing an offensive weapon?"

He stood his ground for a few seconds then ran off to threaten and possibly lamp some other (for I believe that was his intent.)

The point of this - he clearly wasn't acting to protect me or other's best interest, had he done so he would have explained what he was doing and why (transpires this may have been to prevent me witnessing another of his mounted and thuggish colleagues using excessive force in beating the hell out of what appeared troublesome types pinned against a fence who, it seemed, were simply trying to get away from his violence.) It also demonstrated that he was Ill-equipped to handle such situations, he should at least have known under what authority he is empowered to act and who he is designated to protect and serve? His actions were not co-ordinated, police randomly running throughout the park accosting people, some with good reason, others without. Warhammer it wasn't.

That's comic-book.

 

 

You are clearly a "knuckle dragging neanderthal"  because they simply wouldn't behave like that to normal people. I was told of a man in his 50s who is certainly no hooligan being struck by a policeman post game in the park for exactly the same crime. I suncerely hope one of these cowboys loses his job and pension as it may encourage others to do their jobs properly.

[Alan Dicks' Barmy Army]

9 minutes ago, Loon plage said:

You are clearly a "knuckle dragging neanderthal"  because they simply wouldn't behave like that to normal people. I was told of a man in his 50s who is certainly no hooligan being struck by a policeman post game in the park for exactly the same crime. I suncerely hope one of these cowboys loses his job and pension as it may encourage others to do their jobs properly.

I'm hoping I'm going to get a whoosh or whatever it is they call it on here

There was a copper outside the Dolman exit pushing people about on the exit after the game, the crowd was bunched up so nowhere to go, he is an example of why they get a bad name. You could visibly see his colleagues looking at him in amazement

[Red]

18 minutes ago, Loon plage said:

You are clearly a "knuckle dragging neanderthal"  because they simply wouldn't behave like that to normal people. I was told of a man in his 50s who is certainly no hooligan being struck by a policeman post game in the park for exactly the same crime. I suncerely hope one of these cowboys loses his job and pension as it may encourage others to do their jobs properly.

So you have never come across the west midlands police!

[Unan]

22 hours ago, WhistleHappy said:

Perspective, things have moved on big time for recent generations....

Look what grandad was upto 40/50years ago...

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=1970s+football+hooligans&FORM=HDRSC2 

Why do you use Bing?

[Eddie Hitler]

23 minutes ago, Alan Dicks' Barmy Army said:

I'm hoping I'm going to get a whoosh or whatever it is they call it on here

There was a copper outside the Dolman exit pushing people about on the exit after the game, the crowd was bunched up so nowhere to go, he is an example of why they get a bad name. You could visibly see his colleagues looking at him in amazement

 

15 minutes ago, Red said:

So you have never come across the west midlands police!

 

Whooshes all round!

[BigTone]

4 minutes ago, Eddie Hitler said:

 

 

Whooshes all round!

Well whooshed Sir

[WhistleHappy]

7 minutes ago, Unan said:

Why do you use Bing?

No idea,  tablet / pc tech a bloody mystery to me, just press buttons and see what pops up for the most part..    

[KevP]

44 minutes ago, Red said:

So you have never come across the west midlands police!

Knowing Loons "love in" with the OB, I suggest he was being a tad sarcastic, Red.....

[JulieH]

8 hours ago, TETBURY MASSIVE said:

Sounds like you just admitted you don't always tell the truth on here...... thank you for clarifying.

thank you