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Bolton / Bury On The Brink (Merged)


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8 minutes ago, phantom said:

The craziest part of all this was that they'd just won promotion. 

It makes you wonder if they literally bought promotion by over spending 

It also makes me wonder if Steve Dale bought the club literally just to make money from selling Gigg Lane.

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10 hours ago, chinapig said:

Perhaps Sheikh Mansour could take time out from his brave battle against the terrible injustice suffered by poor little Manchester City to arrange for Etihad to sponsor Bury?

Why would anyone in their right mind put more money into Steve Dale's bank account.

2 minutes ago, sephjnr said:

It also makes me wonder if Steve Dale bought the club literally just to make money from selling Gigg Lane.

He did. And it has worked, he doesnt give two hoots whether or not Bury survive.

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2 hours ago, sephjnr said:

It also makes me wonder if Steve Dale bought the club literally just to make money from selling Gigg Lane.

I wonder if he's ever been carried down Gloucester Road hailed as the new messiah 

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2 hours ago, Port Said Red said:

Salford as a non league club at the time were probably more solvent, as the non league rules are very strict. That would give them a better starting point, rather having to use a chunk of their investments to pay off any debt.

Understood but logic rarely plays a part in club ownership. 

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Amazingly, and I was surprised to read, Bury still isn't bankrupt, officially anyway.

Steve Dale has popped up again- he's still in charge of the club it'd seem...?

I apologise strongly for the source but sadly it is an interesting story or two.

 
Quote

 

DALE OUT FUND 

Bury owner Steve Dale hopes to get rid of £3.7m stadium debt to secure club’s future

EXCLUSIVE
  • 25 Apr 2020, 21:00
  • Updated: 25 Apr 2020, 22:31

BURY owner Steve Dale is seeking to get rid of a £3.7million debt secured on their Gigg Lane stadium to help secure the club’s future.

A number of secured loans were taken out by previous owner Stewart Day with Capital Bridging Finance, which has since gone into administration.

Steve Dale wants to write-off Bury's Gigg Lane debt and save the club
Steve Dale wants to write-off Bury's Gigg Lane debt and save the club

Dale exclusively revealed to SunSport yesterday that the Shakers were waiting to be placed by the FA into the National League next season following their expulsion from the EFL in August.

The Shakers owner said: “We own the stadium, fact. There’s supposed to be a £3.7m debt on it but Bury FC only got £140,000 of that.

in-art-close-icon-128x128-16481b937f87b244a645cdbef0d930f8.png
–– ADVERTISEMENT ––
 
 
 

“We’ve never seen the rest of that cash. It was used as a security for something else that had nothing to do with the club. Bury never got its due money.

“In law, you must have received something to have owed it. Bury FC got **** all.

 

“I’m speaking to the mortgage company’s administrators and told them, ‘Let’s do a deal. You’re saying we owe X amount but you prove when that money went into our bank account and I’ll honour it.’

"We’ve not been sent that proof.”

An investigation led by Damian Collins, the chair of the parliamentary sports select committee, discovered in October that a staggering £1m was paid as an “introductory fee” for the loan to an unknown person.

Collins said: “The inquiry made clear that people profited a lot over Bury’s demise. Someone took £1m away.”

 

And, meanwhile, Dale has told SunSport he has appointed a QC to lead a legal fight that will cost him around £250,000 against the EFL for damages following the Shakers’ expulsion.

Bury – who were promoted to League One last season – were booted out after the EFL said the club did not show proof of funds for the 2019-20 season.

UNBELIEVABLE TREATMENT

The Shakers owner said: “We should never have been thrown out. The way they treated us, compared to Bolton, is unbelievable.

"I felt the whole time the EFL were against us while they bent over backwards to help Bolton, a former Premier League team.

“When I was trying to rescue the club from the debts run up by Stewart Day, I never realised that not only was I fighting against the creditors but also the EFL.

“I’ve got a QC working on it right now. The case against the EFL will show the real truth what happened to Bury FC.”

The EFL has always maintained they provided Bury with ample chance to meet their finance requirements and the League, as a compromise, only asked for one season’s proof of funding rather than the up to two they usually require.

SunSport can reveal the National League will only accept Bury into their fold if Dale steps down – as football officers that were part of a club expelled from the EFL are prohibited in their set-up.

Dale has already stated he is prepared to do that and said: “I’ll be happy to leave it for someone else to run it.

“I want to make one thing clear - I’ve never taken a penny from Bury FC.

“I was duped into taking over the club. I’m not a football person and only got introduced to Bury in terms of wanting to invest in a second chance academy for young offenders.

“But then people at the club told me Bury would go bust if I didn’t step in and all I’ve wanted to do from day one is save the club.

“The more I discovered, the more staggered I was by what had gone on under the previous regime. We had two players earning £7,000-a-week.

Bury were booted out of the Football League in August
Bury were booted out of the Football League in August
“Jermaine Beckford – who sat at home doing nothing for a year because he was injured – was picking up astronomical sums.

"And the place was over-staffed with people. The wage bill was £3.5m. I was thinking, ‘Christ, we’re Bury, not Chelsea.’

“If you stack shelves at Tesco and I go round your house and you have a 120inch plasma on the wall and a Mercedes in the drive – I’d say there is something wrong here.

“I just thought, ‘What the **** is going on in this place.’ I was looking for it but there was no revenue. It was madness.”

I still wonder, would Shaun Harvey have let them start the season? I believe it to be possible, yes.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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The story that went before- seems they are looking to get into the National League next season- clearly without him at the helm...Yes these are both The Sun.

From Justin Allen Twitter- first article in a more user friendly format- and an article suggesting there is also a phoenix club in the works, playing at a different ground.

EWb7V8dWkAAEgwz?format=jpg&name=4096x409

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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Brother in law who lives in Colchester, said today that he's heard rumours that Colchester "were in trouble and could fold/finish for good".

Just something that he's heard so not sure if there's anything to it, but could be the start of something much bigger happening at that level.

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1 hour ago, Taz said:

Brother in law who lives in Colchester, said today that he's heard rumours that Colchester "were in trouble and could fold/finish for good".

Just something that he's heard so not sure if there's anything to it, but could be the start of something much bigger happening at that level.

They have given a number of players notice that their short term contracts wont be extended - I guess from a clubs point of view having a player on a monthly contract that wont play is just burning money

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18 minutes ago, phantom said:

They have given a number of players notice that their short term contracts wont be extended - I guess from a clubs point of view having a player on a monthly contract that wont play is just burning money

Spot on and the same will apply to many clubs. Have this feeling that the composition of the divisions next year will be a lot different to the way they are now.

Edited by BigTone
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6 hours ago, Robin101 said:

Wouldn't have thought so and I haven't seen that discussed anywhere. I thought they had ceased to exist as a club anyway?

According to those articles, as a former League club who have been expelled they have the right to come in higher up the non League pyramid. So Conference or Conference North.

Bury AFC however as a prospective new club, will need to take their chances low down. North West Counties League I think. 

@winsleyred

Wouldn't have thought so, as Robin said. The logical outcome here IMO would be Barrow. Top of Conference, League has 71 clubs anyway. Seems relatively fair, not least as they were voted out in the 1970s I believe.

Debt on Gigg Lane is a clear and obvious issue, but the company who hold/held that debt have gone into administration so, who knows...

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7 hours ago, Robin101 said:

Wouldn't have thought so and I haven't seen that discussed anywhere. I thought they had ceased to exist as a club anyway?

 

3 hours ago, Kingswood Robin said:

I think they still exist, just about. They we're expelled. If the season finishes early, they'll still be expelled. I hope they find a way back though.

 

22 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

According to those articles, as a former League club who have been expelled they have the right to come in higher up the non League pyramid. So Conference or Conference North.

Bury AFC however as a prospective new club, will need to take their chances low down. North West Counties League I think. 

@winsleyred

Wouldn't have thought so, as Robin said. The logical outcome here IMO would be Barrow. Top of Conference, League has 71 clubs anyway. Seems relatively fair, not least as they were voted out in the 1970s I believe.

Debt on Gigg Lane is a clear and obvious issue, but the company who hold/held that debt have gone into administration so, who knows...

Just found this article that kind of answers the points raised by @Robin 101 @Kingswood Robin@Mr Popodopolous

Bury AFC, set up by fans after the Shakers were expelled from the EFL, is one of 11 clubs to have applied for a spot in the North West Counties League.

Bury FC were removed from the English Football League in August after several months of financial problems.

The NWCFL said that clubs must meet certain criteria by 31 March to be considered for a 10th-tier place.

It is understood that Bury AFC have found a ground to play at next season which meets these requirements.

The NWCFL lists them as one of two new clubs applying to play in the league next season, the other being FC Isle of Man, with the other nine teams coming from lower down the non-league pyramid.

"This confirms our belief that we are the only team currently with an application in to play football in Bury next season," Bury AFC said on Twitter.

The league confirmed in December that an application had been made by the new club, which is unaffiliated to Bury FC.

At the time, prospective investor Robert Benwell said it would cost £600,000 to start a new club in the lower divisions of English football.

Last week Bury FC, which still exists as a company, defaulted on a plan to help settle its debts with creditors.

The Shakers were due to play in League One this season but their opening fixtures were postponed and their expulsion from the English Football League came after a last-ditch takeover bid collapsed.

TAKEN FROM: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51584394

 

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5 minutes ago, phantom said:

 

 

Just found this article that kind of answers the points raised by @Robin 101 @Kingswood Robin@Mr Popodopolous

The NWCFL lists them as one of two new clubs applying to play in the league next season, the other being FC Isle of Man, with the other nine teams coming from lower down the non-league pyramid.

 

TAKEN FROM: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51584394

 

Ironically this report was published by the BBC today: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52316690

This was supposed to be a big year for football on the Isle of Man.

Having applied to join the North West Counties League, where Fleetwood Town were champions 15 years ago on their climb to League One, FC Isle of Man were hoping to compete in English football's non-league system in 2020-21.

The community club, based on the island in the Irish Sea famous for hosting the annual TT international motorcycling event, was founded in 2019 with big ambitions.

Paul Jones, sporting director of FC Isle of Man, said the plan was to be in League Two "within 10 to 15 years".

Home games would be played at the Bowl, a 3,000-capacity multi-use venue in Douglas, the island's capital, where Arsenal's former Celtic defender Kieran Tierney was born.

But on 20 March came the news the Isle of Man had recorded its first cases of coronavirus. The Manx government closed its borders to non-residents to help prevent the spread of the pandemic and, as of 27 April, 308 people on the island had tested positive for the virus and there had been 20 deaths.

So what now for the new Manx club in lockdown, yet to play a game and desperate to make its mark on football in England?

'Bigger issues than football right now'

Before lockdown, FC Isle of Man were on track to enter the 10th tier of English football in August after the North West Counties League recommended the Football Association accept their application providing appropriate criteria is met.

One condition is that they pay the travel costs and overnight accommodation of all visiting teams and match officials - like Channel Islands clubs Guernsey (eighth tier) and Jersey Bulls (10th tier) have to do.

Home games in Douglas would kick off on Saturday evenings to minimise impact on the two-tier Isle of Man League, which consists of 26 clubs. FC Isle of Man chairman Gary Weightman predicted lots of interest in the new club from football fans on the island.

"Although there are a lot of clubs in Douglas, others on the island - such as Rushen United, Peel and Ramsey - are a big part of their communities," he said. "When we hosted Jersey in the FA Inter-League Cup final a few years ago we had 3,000 at the Bowl. We hope to get 1,100-1,500 people watching us initially."

With all football in England below the three divisions that make up the National League ending immediately on 26 March and all results expunged, and with no promotion or relegation taking place, FC Isle of Man have been left not knowing what the immediate future holds.

"It doesn’t seem likely that the non-league season will start in August," added Jones.

"Our island is locked down. There are bigger issues that need to be solved before the football team can travel on and off the island every week."

'It makes it personal when someone you know dies'

Life on the Isle of Man, like so many other places around the world, has completely changed over the past few weeks.

"We're pretty much at a standstill," added Weightman, a surveyor.

"There are 83,000 of us scattered around the island and the other day two people died with coronavirus. That's a big thing on an island of this size. If you don't know the person then you will probably know the face.

"One of the people who died was a police officer who I knew when I was involved in the police football team. It does make it personal. He always said 'hello' when we passed one another on the street."

According to the Isle of Man Today website, visitor numbers increased by 0.8% in 2018 to 308,263, while more than 46,000 travelled to the island while the 2019 TT races were taking place. Jones, who was born on the island, said the community feel safer now the borders are closed to non-residents.

"We're a very proud and close community that tends to look out for our own but that has been amplified in recent weeks," he added. "We think we might get through this a bit quicker than some other places."

Chris Bass is the first manager of FC Isle of Man, which is owned by Sporting Club Isle of Man and has the support of the Manx government and local businesses.

He landed the job after two decades managing St George's, the nine-time Isle of Man Premier League champions.

"I have a small landscaping and construction company," said Bass. "Yes, I'm suffering financially. I can't work and I haven't had any income for three weeks."

Streaming home games

When restrictions are lifted and life returns to some sort of normality, Jones is confident FC Isle of Man will be the place to showcase the best of the island's footballing talent.

In recent years, the island has produced countless individuals who have competed at the top level of sport. Mark Cavendish is a veteran of 30 stage wins at the Tour de France, while Peter Kennaugh, another cyclist, was the first Manxman in 100 years to win Olympic gold as part of the Great Britain men's pursuit team in 2012.

Shooter Tim Kneale is a Commonwealth silver medallist, while in Pyeongchang in 2018 Zoe Gillings-Brier became the first British snowboarder to compete at four Winter Olympics, reaching the quarter-finals.

Jones wants FC Isle of Man to contribute to the island's sporting success.

The team will initially be made up of players living on the island and recruitment will officially start in the summer.

By then a membership scheme aimed at raising funds for the club will have been launched. The annual £20 subscription will include the opportunity to access a live stream of all FC Isle of Man home games.

Jones hopes it will appeal to people from the island who are now living around the world and those who have a "soft spot" for the Isle of Man.

"If we can get 10,000 then that’s the budget close to being sorted," he said.

Bass believes there is talent on the island capable of playing in the professional game. In the past, promising Manx footballers have left to play in America.

"I'm hoping the launch of FC Isle of Man will stop players believing the United States is the be-all and end-all," added Bass.

How realistic is the new club's target of playing in the EFL in 15 years' time?

"People will look at it and go 'it's not going to happen, that's ridiculous'," added Jones.

"But why not? It might take 20 years, it might never happen.

"But if we can get to a point where FC Isle of Man showcases our island, pulls in more visitors, attracts more people to live here and more businesses to relocate, it will preserve our island for many generations."

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44 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

According to those articles, as a former League club who have been expelled they have the right to come in higher up the non League pyramid. So Conference or Conference North.

Bury AFC however as a prospective new club, will need to take their chances low down. North West Counties League I think. 

@winsleyred

Wouldn't have thought so, as Robin said. The logical outcome here IMO would be Barrow. Top of Conference, League has 71 clubs anyway. Seems relatively fair, not least as they were voted out in the 1970s I believe.

Debt on Gigg Lane is a clear and obvious issue, but the company who hold/held that debt have gone into administration so, who knows...

NWCFL they have been accepted. I watch Cheadle Town quite often in that league for my son works there Saturdays as part of his uni course.

It is the same level Fleetwood, Fylde, Salford and FC United all started at.

Isle of Man have been accepted as well. It’s split North and South so will wait and see what half they go in. 
Trouble is if no clubs are promoted and relegated and restructuring has been halted by the FA it’s where and how they fit in for they are 1 of 11 clubs who have applied to join and were accepted ground dependant.

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6 hours ago, Taz said:

Brother in law who lives in Colchester, said today that he's heard rumours that Colchester "were in trouble and could fold/finish for good".

Just something that he's heard so not sure if there's anything to it, but could be the start of something much bigger happening at that level.

Could well be.

This report, unsure if it's already been posted on here but interesting stuff certainly.

https://www.efl.com/siteassets/image/201920/governance-reviews/bury-review..pdf---adobe-acrobat-pro.pdf

Was about the demise into Bury but also reviews regarding governance etc- interesting stuff, was published in late February.

Read a bit of it myself so far but I wonder what the future of football, not just in the bottom 2 divisions but the EFL generally will look like.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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4 hours ago, BigTone said:

Spot on and the same will apply to many clubs. Have this feeling that the composition of the divisions next year will be a lot different to the way they are now.

I think the old Div 3 north and south would be a good compromise depending on how many clubs are viable.

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5 minutes ago, pillred said:

I think the old Div 3 north and south would be a good compromise depending on how many clubs are viable.

I say this every time this is suggested but, given the road network in this country, wouldn`t an east/west split be better? I suspect the likes of Exeter or Cheltenham can get to Rochdale or Accrington a lot easier than they can to Colchester or Cambridge.

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16 minutes ago, Lanterne Rouge said:

I say this every time this is suggested but, given the road network in this country, wouldn`t an east/west split be better? I suspect the likes of Exeter or Cheltenham can get to Rochdale or Accrington a lot easier than they can to Colchester or Cambridge.

Unfortunately it will also come down to a numbers game, as you would need and equal divide of clubs.

The line has to be drawn somewhere, and I suppose a bit like when we used to play in the FL Trophy and Cambridge were in the south.

Someone somewhere will still be the 'wrong' side of the line due to an imbalance of numbers, a bit like Gloucester City who play in the national league north, yet Oxford play in the south, as did Worcester City before they were relegated.

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On 30/04/2020 at 23:01, Mr Popodopolous said:

@Taz mentioned Colchester and possibly that they were quite well run?

Well, some weekly wages from League One may shed a bit more light on their position- I'd have to see if there is a graphic for all clubs at that level but quite high!

EW4ChLAWoAUSBTF?format=jpg&name=large

Those are league 2 wages.

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4 hours ago, JamesBCFC said:

Those are league 2 wages.

Indeed they are.

Found the full link- I'm wondering how credible the figures are in some ways, whether it's been a crude wage bill vs players, I dunno.

Anyway...

https://www.footy.com/footballers-vs-the-fans/#efl-league-two

Make of it what you will. Assuming it's for 2018/19, but Bury have been unable to submit accounts due to their ongoing issues so I assume it'd be for 2017/18- you might be interested in that @havanatopia .

Seems to me that the bulk of the damage was done pre Dale, but that frying pan and fire spring to mind.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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